Losman, might have been better suited

[DaBills51]

Trent had significant playing time his Rookie year. JP had his leg broken by a scumbag his Rookie year in PRESEASON. Nice attempt though.

 

So, let me get this straight....Troy Vincent, the ex-NFLPA president and the 2002 Walter Payton Man of the Year award recipient is a scumbag because he put a hit on JP during training camp.

[Bill from NYC]

I think the point people are trying to make is as bad as you think JP is, SO FAR Trent has been every bit as bad, maybe even worse.

 

Not even close. Losman could not quarterback his team to wins. What did he average, 2.5 wins per year? He sucked, and he will always suck. Always, no matter how much you want him to be good.

Please face the truth. You will thank me some day.

[Cynical]

I agree that a new coaching staff would bring in a veteran to compete, however our FO will remain the same, and I believe we all know how our FO has handled the QB position over the past couple of years.

 

That has more to do with Dick and the coaching staff. Kind of hard to pin that on the Modrak, Brandon, et al.

 

We will probably see a situation similar to when Kelly Holcomb was brought in to compete with Losman. Trent may lose his job around midseason next year, but I see him as the starter for the season opener.

 

IMHO, depending on who is brought in, I can see Edwards losing the job in the preseason, especially if he continued to play the same way he does now.

 

Hopefully by the end of the year this conversation will be pointless and we will have other positions to worry about improving.

 

 

Let's hope. It would be nice to finish the season with a winning record, and a playoff appearance.

[Arkady Renko]

Can we talk about how Holcomb never got a fair shot now?

[Flbillsfan#1]

This isn't fantasy football. If good QB play gets you to the redzone and a RB runs the ball in that's just as good as if the QB threw the pass. The points count the same. However the QB helps the team score is what matters.

I agree with this premise, that is why I said "most likely". You may find a QB that is on a team that likes to run it in when in the Red Zone that may have a few fewer TD's thrown than an inferior QB but over all I think this is the best measure of a QB.

 

When comparing Trent & JP they played on basically the same team & in his best year JP has thrown for almost TWICE the amount of TD's as Trent has so far in his best year.

[loyal2dagame]

Passing TD's OVERRATED? That is the CRAZIEST thing I have ever heard. 99% of the other QB stats are pointless & overrated if you will. Passing TD's is the one stat that you can use to see how GOOD a QB is. You can't use it to compare QB's from different eras, but if you compare QB's that were contemporaries the QB with the most TD's is most likely the better QB.

 

well, if they are not overrated as YOU claim, please allow me to throw some names out at you in no particular order:

 

jim kelly

 

vinny testaverde

 

dave krieg

 

joe montana

 

drew bledsoe

 

these qb's all played at the same time. care to compare QB's that were contemporaries and tell me who is the best out of the bunch in order from best to worst using your methods?

 

3 of the 5 named are top 10 all time in td passes

 

YOUR THEORY, SIR, DOES NOT HOLD ANY MERIT

 

turnovers and when they occur are more important than td passes imho

[Flbillsfan#1]

So, let me get this straight....Troy Vincent, the ex-NFLPA president and the 2002 Walter Payton Man of the Year award recipient is a scumbag because he put a hit on JP during training camp.

YES!!!!!! You don't hit a teammate like that in practice. Especially a QB in a RED jersey not EXPECTING to be hit. Troy Vincent is a SCUM BAG!!!!!!

[K-9]

JP's 2nd year was his 1st year with ANY playing time at all. Keep 'em coming.

 

I know, stupid, isn't it?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[manbeast]

Huh?

 

Oh, I got it. You quote JP's best SINGLE season vs. ALL of TE's games.

 

Mind if I do a little bit of the same:

 

JP = 42 games, 33 TDs = 1.27 .786 TDs per game.

 

TE = 27 games, 22 TDs = 1.22 .810 TDs per game.

 

Looks like a statistical dead heat when it comes to TD passes per game played. I love stats.

 

You had me at, (TE) "he needs to step us his game." Game, set, match. That's all that really matters. Here's hoping he does.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

P.S. - Thanks DC Tom and Magox for correcting my math.

Losman one of the most accurate down field passers in the NFL

[Flbillsfan#1]

well, if they are not overrated as YOU claim, please allow me to throw some names out at you in no particular order:

 

jim kelly

 

vinny testaverde

 

dave krieg

 

drew bledsoe

 

these qb's all played at the same time. care to compare QB's that were contemporaries and tell me who is the best out of the bunch in order using your methods?

 

2 of the 4 named are top 10 all time in td passes.

 

3 of the four have more td's than the fourth

 

YOUR THEORY, SIR, DOES NOT HOLD ANY MERIT

If you are quoting stats for their entire career that does not hold any merit. Compare them on a YEAR by YEAR BASIS & tell me how far off I am. I agree with you about turnovers they are also important to look at.

[manbeast]

well, if they are not overrated as YOU claim, please allow me to throw some names out at you in no particular order:

 

jim kelly

 

vinny testaverde

 

dave krieg

 

drew bledsoe

 

these qb's all played at the same time. care to compare QB's that were contemporaries and tell me who is the best out of the bunch in order from best to worst using your methods?

 

2 of the 4 named are top 10 all time in td passes.

 

3 of the four have more td's than the fourth

 

YOUR THEORY, SIR, DOES NOT HOLD ANY MERIT

 

turnovers are more important than td passes imho

Brett Favre

[K-9]

JP 2nd year = 8 TDs in 8 starts

 

TE 2nd year = 11 TDs in 14 starts

 

Hmmmm......who had the better TD per games ratio? Also up until their second season JP had only attempted 5 passes where as Trent had already started 9 games and attempted 269 passes.

 

Again I say Trent has yet to prove he is better than JP was. If he has proven that, how? I'd like to hear it.

 

JP = 42 games, 33 tds = .785 TDs per game, career

 

TE= 27 games, 22 tds = .814 TDs per game, career

 

Hmmmmm.... who has the better TD per games ratio, CAREER?

 

I won't go into the fact that in EVERY statistical category for QBs, TE ranks higher. Just thought I'd throw more STUPIDITY into the ridiculous argument about who's better, blah blah blah.

 

TE hasn't proved crap. He's still playing in the league.

 

JP hasn't proved crap. He's NOT playing in the league.

 

Enough with the stupidity already.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebug]

JP losman has Brett Favre's arm and can run like Mike Vick. He will be a first ballot Hall of famer.

[Flbillsfan#1]

JP losman has Brett Favre's arm and can run like Mike Vick. He will be a first ballot Hall of famer.

The problem with JP is so far he has also shown he has Mike Vicks brain.

[K-9]

Losman one of the most accurate down field passers in the NFL

 

One-trick pony with a cannon for an arm. Yippee! I'm glad the rest of the league took advantage of his "down field passing accuracy."

 

I know, every GM in a QB-starved league is stupid for not signing him. I don't get it either.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[loyal2dagame]

If you are quoting stats for their entire career that does not hold any merit. Compare them on a YEAR by YEAR BASIS & tell me how far off I am. I agree with you about turnovers they are also important to look at.

 

you never made any disclaimer about which stats had to be used(single season vs career)

 

so using career stats does your theory work?

 

we're still comparing td passes and ranking players

 

no

[loyal2dagame]

let me state the following:

 

i am a firm believer stats can be twisted however you or i want them to appear

[Flbillsfan#1]

JP = 42 games, 33 tds = .785 TDs per game, career

 

TE= 27 games, 22 tds = .814 TDs per game, career

 

I won't go into the fact that in EVERY statistical category for QBs, TE ranks higher. Just thought I'd throw more STUPIDITY into the ridiculous argument about who's better, blah blah blah.

 

TE hasn't proved crap. He's still playing in the league.

 

JP hasn't proved crap. He's NOT playing in the league.

 

Enough with the stupidity already.

 

GO BILLS!!!

If Trent does not improve, he may not play in the NFL much longer.

JP may be finished or he may be like a phoenix & rise again to play in the NFL.

 

Stay tuned.

[Flbillsfan#1]

let me state the following:

 

i am a firm believer stats can be twisted however you or i want them to appear

I totally agree. I would rather WATCH a player on the field than look at numbers on a page.

[K-9]

If Trent does not improve, he may not play in the NFL much longer.

JP may be finished or he may be like a phoenix & rise again to play in the NFL.

 

Stay tuned.

 

Are you going to wait until TE has appeared in the same 42 games, then, before pronouncing him a failure? I mean, you'd be willing to give him the same amount of games, wouldn't you? If not, why not?

 

I hope JP DOES reclaim his career. It'd be one helluva story. I'm rooting for him. So I am staying tuned.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Flbillsfan#1]

Are you going to wait until TE has appeared in the same 42 games, then, before pronouncing him a failure? I mean, you'd be willing to give him the same amount of games, wouldn't you? If not, why not?

 

I hope JP DOES reclaim his career. It'd be one helluva story. I'm rooting for him. So I am staying tuned.

 

GO BILLS!!!

It really isn't up to me about Trent any more than it was up to me about JP. I felt the Bills gave up on JP too early & I am sure many people will feel the same way about Trent when the time comes. Please believe me, nothing would make me happier than to see the light come on for Trent & watch him throw 11 TD's to TO 10 to Evans & another 8 to other receivers SHATTERING JP's best year TD # & watching the Bills in the playoffs.

[loyal2dagame]

It really isn't up to me about Trent any more than it was up to me about JP. I felt the Bills gave up on JP too early & I am sure many people will feel the same way about Trent when the time comes. Please believe me, nothing would make me happier than to see the light come on for Trent & watch him throw 11 TD's to TO 10 to Evans & another 8 to other receivers SHATTERING JP's best year TD # & watching the Bills in the playoffs.

 

not me........

 

i'd rather start the roller coaster ride over again.

 

how far is the drop?

[Flbillsfan#1]

you never made any disclaimer about which stats had to be used(single season vs career)

 

so using career stats does your theory work?

 

we're still comparing td passes and ranking players

 

no

I agree with you about stats.............I HATE them. My theory about TD's can not be used over an entire career because some players like Testeverde for example played a LONG time while other BETTER players had a much shorter career. It so happens I am also a Bucs fan as well as a Bills fan so I have watched Testeverde quite a bit over the years. If we use him as an example, his first few years as a Buc he was terrible & without looking it up I would bet on a year by year basis his TD #'s would reflect that. As he matured & improved I'm sure his TD #'s went up. In my opinion he never was a VERY GOOD QB, he was more of a game manager, but he was DURABLE so I am sure his career TD #'s look pretty good.

[FreakPop]

JP = 42 games, 33 tds = .785 TDs per game, career

 

TE= 27 games, 22 tds = .814 TDs per game, career

 

Hmmmmm.... who has the better TD per games ratio, CAREER?

 

I won't go into the fact that in EVERY statistical category for QBs, TE ranks higher. Just thought I'd throw more STUPIDITY into the ridiculous argument about who's better, blah blah blah.

 

TE hasn't proved crap. He's still playing in the league.

 

JP hasn't proved crap. He's NOT playing in the league.

 

Enough with the stupidity already.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

So at this point Trent is barely statistically better than JP was in most categories not all of them, that's ok I guess. That is not saying much since most here consider JP the absolute worst QB to ever suit up for an NFL team.

 

So if JP was the worst then Trent is second worst, that's not good enough. JP lasted 4 years in the league, it's no guarantee that Trent will make it past that either. Then what?

 

Bottom line is neither was the answer at being a QB capable of leading the team to the playoffs. JP never got better and Trent is not going to either so it's time for the Bills to draft a QB in 2010.

[Mr. WEO]

I totally agree. I would rather WATCH a player on the field than look at numbers on a page.

How did you enjoy watching your boy "rise" from the bench and play last year? You know, when he should the world how much better he was?

[silvermike]

Look, the bottom line here is that both QBs average fewer than one TD pass per game. Combined, in their careers, Edwards and Losman have 55 TD passes, nearly as many as Brady had in one season. Both have roughly the same number of interceptions as touchdowns.

 

We can argue about who is worse, but as long as that argument is on the table, we have no QB. Trent Edwards is better than JP Losman. He's not enough better to be an NFL QB right now.

[Gary M]

Can we talk about how Holcomb never got a fair shot now?

 

I hate losing.

[bowery4]

I can't believe the debate still goes on! Come on Trent, step it up already. I would like to see a comparision between Eli Manning and Trent his first 3 years because of active QBs he is the one who he reminds me of the most.

 

edit here they are up to the tampa game

 

Year Team G Att Cmp Comp % Yds Yd/A TDs Int Sacked Yds Rating

2007 Buf 10 269 151 56.1 1630 6.1 7 8 12 105 70.4

2008 Buf 14 374 245 65.5 2699 7.2 11 10 23 143 85.4

2009 Buf 3 91 56 61.5 598 6.6 4 2 10 63 86.2

Totals 27 734 452 61.6 4927 6.7 22 20 45 311 80.0

 

2004 NYG 9 197 95 48.2 1043 5.3 6 9 13 83 55.4

2005 NYG 16 557 294 52.8 3762 6.8 24 17 28 184 75.9

2006 NYG 16 522 301 57.7 3244 6.2 24 18 25 186 77.0

 

Of course the Giants didn't suck

I still hope Trent can just do better and live past the inconsistance.

[keepthefaith]

Are you going to wait until TE has appeared in the same 42 games, then, before pronouncing him a failure? I mean, you'd be willing to give him the same amount of games, wouldn't you? If not, why not?

 

I hope JP DOES reclaim his career. It'd be one helluva story. I'm rooting for him. So I am staying tuned.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Both he and Trent can recover from "Jauronitis". JP's recovery has begun. Trent is still afflicted with the disease.

[loyal2dagame]

Both he and Trent can recover from "Jauronitis". JP's recovery has begun. Trent is still afflicted with the disease.

 

actually, i think losman has been afflicted 2 times. 1 time with gang green from meat heat, and the second time was almost a (career) killer with jauronitis. it is surely unknown if the combination of the two diseases weakened losman to the brink of the end. losman may have been cured, or may have lingering issues as it relates to these dreaded diseases.

 

i had high hopes trent was issued a vaccine to repel jauronitis, but it appears that the disease may be too strong for most to overcome even with a vaccine, except for brian moorman. he seemed to be the only player to have immunity to the horrible jauronitis