Mark Vader Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I'm actually a little overwhelmed right now. An apologist who can't defend Trent. It's a first. I think Mark, that you're heading in the right direction. I never like to be overly critical, and I was a long and obedient apologist for J.P., but once I saw the light I realized that while it may take some time for certain players to develop here and there, for some you can tell, it will never turn on. Trent's a tricky cat. We've seen him make nice plays. But then again we've seen the Cleveland game. I agree, Fitz is not ready for the starting position. I also don't like to mess with an alleged franchise QB. We took out JP and replaced him with Kelly Holcomb, and I think that did more harm than good. I don't know what to do with him, but for the mean time I think it's a fair request that every Bills fan should at least be on the guy's back. I want him to feel the pressure from the team and fans. He doesn't look to me like the guy who can rise out of pressure, but week one will be an excellent test for him. He probably will fail under pressure like always, but this season is his last chance to prove he can play football... ...the sad thing about Trent is that his game-plan is more conservative than Dick's coaching. It miraculously won us games, but if you play conservative and make mistakes like the littly rinky-dink pass that was picked off today, you'll lose them. I think in the end that this season will be an unnecessary one in the method of rebuilding. By allowing Trent to have one last chance, and seeing him fail, we'll effectively set ourselves back an entire season. We're a young team, but as some of our defenders get older, and Evans gains another year, it becomes a sad repetitive cycle. I want Trent to succeed. I like him as a player. Unfortunately, he's a Jekyll/Hyde player. You do'nt know what's going to happen with him. I remember that Cleveland game all to well. The 3 INT's in the first half were awful. Ironically he threw a 20 yard bullet to Royal on the last drive of the game, and our coaching staff in their infinite wisdom, chose to take the ball out of Edwards hands and then ran 3 straight short yardage running games. I really think that Edwards could have gotten us closer on that drive. So, do you still think I did'nt watch tonight's game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 funny how the last 2 games featured 3-4 defenses Yeah. Just as funny as a sword swallower with swollen glands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300yrds Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 yeah that wont happen. i wish there was a viable back up. Good thing we didnt bring in anybody to pressure TE for the starting job, who knows how we would have looked. good thing we didnt put any pressure on brining in cutler, that would have sucked too. its picking right up from last season. te is predictable and the more game tape available to teams the easier he is to stop i almost miss jp...??(im sure that will stir the pot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 So, do you still think I did'nt watch tonight's game? You watched the Cleveland game, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Drink some more kool-aid, you clown. I've long refrained from the Edwards debate, but no one should be silly enough to make the claim that it's the line's fault. Way to admit you didn't watch the game. Come on Murra, it didn't help matters that the whole O-line was going backwards into TE's face from the first snap of the game on. The whole Offense was manhandled including and especially the WR's. TE, sucked, but so did everyone else. Until we get players like TO, Hardy, Nelson/Stupar involved in the mix nothing has changed from last season, and we know the O- line got weaker, at least from the get go. Add the Superbowl Champs staring you in the face across the line of scrimmage and you've got problems, especially when some of the coaches seem to be game planning exactly like a regular season game while others go out of their way not to, its not going to be pretty, pretty ugly maybe... I believe in keeping things close to the best and we suffered for it tonight. We didn't even try to counter the Steelers over pursing defense properly and the screens and dump offs we plan on using in the season opener are being kept hidden for a reason, that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancasterSteve Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Is he toast? Could be. after the beating he took in the Arizona game last season, Edwards is not the same QB. It sure looks like he is playing not to get hit, not to get hurt once again. Despite all the disinformation, Edwards is still like a rail in spite of all the work he has put in to bulk up. I believe that Trent's memory on getting hit is too good which ironically is not a trait you want when playing QB, hence the checkdowns, the dump-offs and the needless hurried throws that bounce in the turf or the passes thrown high that will get a WR injured. The NFL landscape is littered with once good quarterbacks who have lost their confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Come on Murra, it didn't help matters that the whole O-line was going backwards into TE's face from the first snap of the game on. The whole Offense was manhandled including and especially the WR's. TE, sucked, but so did everyone else. Until we get players like TO, Hardy, Nelson/Stupar involved in the mix nothing has changed from last season, and we know the O- line got weaker, at least from the get go. Add the Superbowl Champs staring you in the face across the line of scrimmage and you've got problems, especially when some of the coaches seem to be game planning exactly like a regular season game while others go out of their way not to, its not going to be pretty, pretty ugly maybe... I believe in keeping things close to the best and we suffered for it tonight. We didn't even try to counter the Steelers over pursing defense properly and the screens and dump offs we plane on using in the season opener are being kept hidden for a reason, that's just my opinion. I hate to respond with such a simple answer, but it's truthful and should perhaps open your eyes: Our offensive line did a better job than the Steelers. Trent, however couldn't handle pressure. Big Ben used pressure to create. Trent used it to take hits, miss reads, and to throw it late. The whole offense was not manhandled, Trent just doesn't create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twist_to_open Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 When are you all gonna get it....Buffalo is where potentially good quarterbacks go to die....It does'nt matter who lines up under center we will put them out of the league in 3 years max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I hate to respond with such a simple answer, but it's truthful and should perhaps open your eyes: Our offensive line did a better job than the Steelers. Trent, however couldn't handle pressure. Big Ben used pressure to create. Trent used it to take hits, miss reads, and to throw it late. The whole offense was not manhandled, Trent just doesn't create. If you timed the difference given to the QB's and compared the two O-lines, you would see Big Ben's lineman gave him ample time and a pocket where as TE was having his own lineman literally shoved right into his face right from the very get go. TE played poorly, but the O-line contributed greatly to the problem, at least in my opinion. We all know Big Ben can improvise, he just won a SB doing it, he's one tough ass QB to go up against and seems impossible sometimes to bring down. One bright point of the evening though, Maybin looked really good at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Trent will be benched...for the final three quarters just like the other teams in the last pre season game. I would rather leave them out there until they score a TD or the game ends. But no, I definitely feel Trent is better than Fitzpatrick, and while we will likely be 0-1 to start the season, this team will progress and improve and do MUCH better than anybody feels right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Why so much negativity...I "Billieve" still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Trent will be benched...for the final three quarters just like the other teams in the last pre season game. I would rather leave them out there until they score a TD or the game ends. But no, I definitely feel Trent is better than Fitzpatrick, and while we will likely be 0-1 to start the season, this team will progress and improve and do MUCH better than anybody feels right now. I truly billieve you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Why so much negativity...I "Billieve" still... What , that the Steelers are the best team in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 If you timed the difference given to the QB's and compared the two O-lines, you would see Big Ben's lineman gave him ample time and a pocket where as TE was having his own lineman literally shoved right into his face right from the very get go.TE played poorly, but the O-line contributed greatly to the problem, at least in my opinion. We all know Big Ben can improvise, he just won a SB doing it, he's one tough ass QB to go up against and seems impossible sometimes to bring down. One bright point of the evening though, Maybin looked really good at times. I just don't agree with this. You guys called for JP's head, and his line collapsed even faster than this. You can't have it both ways, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 He needs to grow a set. The coaching staff needs to make a quick decision with Trent. Either he throws the ball down field or start Fitzpatrick. In the current offense, we will get blown out of many games. Trent seems to lack the mental toughness needed to play in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 The coaching staff needs to make a quick decision with Trent. Either he throws the ball down field or start Fitzpatrick. In the current offense, we will get blown out of many games. Trent seems to lack the mental toughness needed to play in this league. HAHA, I LOVE IT. This is brilliant. The very reason he was granted a starting role over JP (his mental aspect) is the very reason we're calling him out a season later. I think this is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I'm not defending Trent Edwards by any means but I did notice something tonight and it's something I picked up on when I was at the Green Bay game. I'm not sure if this is an indictment of our defense or our QB but it tells me something is VERY wrong. At the GB game I watched Rogers throw passes to WR's that were WIDE open. When I say open I mean no Bills defenders within 3 -5 yards of the receiver. When ever I see Edwards throw a pass there always seems to be a defender right on top of our WR. The only time this doesn't happen is when Evans is running a streak down the sidelines and Edwards/Losman just heaved it. Doesn't it strike anyone else as odd that our WR's are never wide open and there are never any gaping holes for our RB's to run through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Is he toast? Could be. after the beating he took in the Arizona game last season, Edwards is not the same QB. It sure looks like he is playing not to get hit, not to get hurt once again. Despite all the disinformation, Edwards is still like a rail in spite of all the work he has put in to bulk up. I believe that Trent's memory on getting hit is too good which ironically is not a trait you want when playing QB, hence the checkdowns, the dump-offs and the needless hurried throws that bounce in the turf or the passes thrown high that will get a WR injured. The NFL landscape is littered with once good quarterbacks who have lost their confidence. He is even more tentative than he was but when did he ever NOT check down? Kelly Holcomb would have been a better choice to replace JP the way this is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I'm not defending Trent Edwards by any means but I did notice something tonight and it's something I picked up on when I was at the Green Bay game. I'm not sure if this is an indictment of our defense or our QB but it tells me something is VERY wrong. At the GB game I watched Rogers throw passes to WR's that were WIDE open. When I say open I mean no Bills defenders within 3 -5 yards of the receiver. When ever I see Edwards throw a pass there always seems to be a defender right on top of our WR. The only time this doesn't happen is when Evans is running a streak down the sidelines and Edwards/Losman just heaved it. Doesn't it strike anyone else as odd that our WR's are never wide open and there are never any gaping holes for our RB's to run through? That's because the guy that Edwards decides to throw it to is being covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I just don't agree with this. You guys called for JP's head, and his line collapsed even faster than this. You can't have it both ways, dude. Nawww, I'm a J.P. backer and I never stopped rooting for the guy. Without Dockery and Peters though, to me, I'm seeing a noticeable difference, that's allot of hefty Beef and muscle we lost and its showing when we go up against the best in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 If you timed the difference given to the QB's and compared the two O-lines, you would see Big Ben's lineman gave him ample time and a pocket where as TE was having his own lineman literally shoved right into his face right from the very get go. TE played poorly, but the O-line contributed greatly to the problem, at least in my opinion. We all know Big Ben can improvise, he just won a SB doing it, he's one tough ass QB to go up against and seems impossible sometimes to bring down. One bright point of the evening though, Maybin looked really good at times. I gotta agree with Murra on this. I still hold out some hope for Trent, and I hate to judge anyone on preseason, but that hope is weakening a little. I thought our DL looked pretty good tonight. They actually got quite a bit of pressure on Ben, but watching him slip that pressure, or get rid of the ball just in time, rifling it into a covered receiver time after time, reminded me what a real. winning QB looks like. I don't expect Trent to be Big Ben (who I think is just a fantastic QB - criminally underrated, because he doesn't sling the 300 yard games like Manning/Brady/Rivers/Brees). But the good QBs can work well with and even take advantage of moderate pressure. (No QB looks good in a jail break, but that's not what we mostly saw tonight.) I'm not saying our OL was great, but they were adequate given the defense they were facing, and I thought Trent had enough time to do much more than he did. Even throwing the ball away with authority if he felt the pressure too much would have been an improvement over those desperate, tentative, tardy passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 HAHA, I LOVE IT. This is brilliant. The very reason he was granted a starting role over JP (his mental aspect) is the very reason we're calling him out a season later. I think this is hilarious. I think it's sad. I got railed by people swinging from Trents nutz when I threw out numbers regarding TD, passer rating etc where Edwards was not statistically better than JP. Either Trent gets it done this year with the full year chance that JP never got and I'll be happy or the whole staff and the QB will likely be thrown out and I'll be happy. Oh, wait I forgot how we do it as the Bills. WHEN Trent gets hurt this year and Fitz plays well...they can avoid the issue by saying "well we're playing good right now and we'll see where Fitz takes us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 If you timed the difference given to the QB's and compared the two O-lines, you would see Big Ben's lineman gave him ample time and a pocket where as TE was having his own lineman literally shoved right into his face right from the very get go. TE played poorly, but the O-line contributed greatly to the problem, at least in my opinion. We all know Big Ben can improvise, he just won a SB doing it, he's one tough ass QB to go up against and seems impossible sometimes to bring down. One bright point of the evening though, Maybin looked really good at times. Time the lines to when the QB has to move in the pocket not when the ball is thrown. Big Ben makes his line look good because he can move and doesn't go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I gotta agree with Murra on this. I still hold out some hope for Trent, and I hate to judge anyone on preseason, but that hope is weakening a little. I thought our DL looked pretty good tonight. They actually got quite a bit of pressure on Ben, but watching him slip that pressure, or get rid of the ball just in time, rifling it into a covered receiver time after time, reminded me what a real. winning QB looks like. I don't expect Trent to be Big Ben (who I think is just a fantastic QB - criminally underrated, because he doesn't sling the 300 yard games like Manning/Brady/Rivers/Brees). But the good QBs can work well with and even take advantage of moderate pressure. (No QB looks good in a jail break, but that's not what we mostly saw tonight.) I'm not saying our OL was great, but they were adequate given the defense they were facing, and I thought Trent had enough time to do much more than he did. Even throwing the ball away with authority if he felt the pressure too much would have been an improvement over those desperate, tentative, tardy passes. Its hard to disagree with that, but with TO in the game and a different game plan (or a game plan at all) I think TE probably fairs a little better, even against the Superbowl champs. I hope so anyway because we will be finding out shortly and it probably isn't getting any easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I think it's sad. I got railed by people swinging from Trents nutz when I threw out numbers regarding TD, passer rating etc where Edwards was not statistically better than JP. Either Trent gets it done this year with the full year chance that JP never got and I'll be happy or the whole staff and the QB will likely be thrown out and I'll be happy. Oh, wait I forgot how we do it as the Bills. WHEN Trent gets hurt this year and Fitz plays well...they can avoid the issue by saying "well we're playing good right now and we'll see where Fitz takes us" There's things about Fitz I really like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Its hard to disagree with that, but with TO in the game and a different game plan (or a game plan at all) I think TE probably fairs a little better, even against the Superbowl champs. I hope so anyway because we will be finding out shortly and it probably isn't getting any easier. I hope your right but that REALLY scares me. No team should be so reliant on a single player to take them from putrid to competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I hope your right but that REALLY scares me. No team should be so reliant on a single player to take them from putrid to competent. Luckily, he's not your average man TO, because of his size and speed has become TE's #1 so make no mistake about it, TE loves to throw the ball to TO. (defenses hate TO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Check my signature for what I feel about our upcoming season if we continue to back Trent Edwards and pin all our hopes on one WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Its hard to disagree with that, but with TO in the game and a different game plan (or a game plan at all) I think TE probably fairs a little better, even against the Superbowl champs. I hope so anyway because we will be finding out shortly and it probably isn't getting any easier. I agree. I've seen enough good things out of Trent (and TO for that matter) to remain marginally hopeful. But then again, I'm an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 You watched the Cleveland game, that's for sure. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?showtopic=94526 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Christ Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I'm not worried, sorry, to be optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 I think it's sad. I got railed by people swinging from Trents nutz when I threw out numbers regarding TD, passer rating etc where Edwards was not statistically better than JP. Either Trent gets it done this year with the full year chance that JP never got and I'll be happy or the whole staff and the QB will likely be thrown out and I'll be happy. Oh, wait I forgot how we do it as the Bills. WHEN Trent gets hurt this year and Fitz plays well...they can avoid the issue by saying "well we're playing good right now and we'll see where Fitz takes us" "WE all think JP got shafted too!! He would have been a great QB if he just got the chance!!" Regards, All of us in the S5 Psych Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwws9999 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 There's things about Fitz I really like. Cincinnati had the worst offense in the league last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 The deer in the headlights look - I've seen it before. Was it the Browns last year in a night game? It was painful to watch, so incredibly tentative/afraid, I felt sorry for him, but more sorry for the fans who had high expectations that night. Is he toast? I always think back to that game and all the times Evans was wide open going deep. The crowd was yelling for Edwards to throw the ball to Evans, but he would choose to dump it off a couple yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Whaa, Whaa, JP was treated badly, so we should bench Trent. Who gives a schitt about JP Loserman, you guys should really get over it. Trent looks like a high school QB out there and may be benched a couple of games into the season but I don't think Fitz is ready to start the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Ryan Fitzpatrick has a far better grasp on the offense and gives this team the best chance to win. The Buffalo Bills have an arguably top 5 receiving corps and it is looking like things will go down as the worst travesty in offensive history as long as labia-hands Trent is given control over play calling. To not utilize T.O. and Evans will be one of the greatest football sins ever committed. Bench Trent, start Fitzpatrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Check my signature for what I feel about our upcoming season if we continue to back Trent Edwards and pin all our hopes on one WR. That link cracked me up, nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I saw all that I needed to see on a drive in the second quarter: a play action pass was called. Trent fakes to Dominic Rhodes and Rhodes runs about a yard past the line of scrimmage and turns around to be an outlet. Trentative Edwards in fact NEVER looks anywhere else on this PA pass, eyeballing Rhodes the entire time. Rhodes gets blasted on a 1 yard gain. He could have had Lee Running open, Roscoe, Josh, a tight end, WHOEVER! But Trent NEVER surveyed the field for an open wide receiver. His confidence is non-existent right now. Hopefully he can make a few plays Monday night in Foxboro to get some of that back, but Im not counting on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I agree Fitzpatrick should be our starter If Fitzpatrick is our starter, the season is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Bill Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Its hard to disagree with that, but with TO in the game and a different game plan (or a game plan at all) I think TE probably fairs a little better, even against the Superbowl champs. I hope so anyway because we will be finding out shortly and it probably isn't getting any easier. My concern is twofold: 1) For the offense to be successful with TO, Trent will need to develop confidence in throwing the long ball. He shows very little of that confidence/ability yet, way too many check-down, dump off passes. 2) If above does not work, just how cool do you think TO is going to be with adapting by running short routes across the middle - where he is likely to take beatings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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