SKOOBY Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Is the income potential of the locals, just like Ralph said. Ralph mentioned that there is not a strong enough economy currently in place to support a normal NFL ticket price, based on someone else owning the team & the initial expenses of buying a NFL team. So what he was really saying is (in the nicest way), a majority of the people that live there are incapable of doing much past menial work for menial wages to earn a normal professional living and even if they could the jobs are just not there in the first place. Sadly, upon Ralph's death I think we lost our team unless Ralph sells it ahead of time to a group capable of holding out for a better time. After 30 + years of local depression, who knows when that will come as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 As someone who had season tickets the last couple years and as someone who works in the development field, I think there is plenty of money here to support this team. They don't need everyone in WNY, all 1.2 milloin of us, to be independently wealthy, they need 70,000 to be in good shape and a handful of viable businesses. RW's problem is he refuses to raise the prices to see what the market will bear when in fact, most would agree not only that they're cheap but that they'd pay more. Even more, with the advent of Stubhub and other brokerages that have no problem get much higher prices for tickets, it would seem that this region can pay more. Is a 16th row seat on the 50 yeard line behind the Bills bench for a MNF a $70 ticket while a Sabres ticket for a meaningless game in December on a Thursday sells for more? You can't tell me that we can't and we won't. RW's idea is simple: continue to talk down the region to attract an out of state buyer willing to pay a higher price because he feels he needs to move it, which puts more money in the greedy curmudgeon's family's pockets. I'm hoping he gets booed as loudly as possible at the HOF ceremony. I know 4 people who are going that are hoping that RW is inducted last and Bruce right before it so they can all walk out proudly in their Bills jerseys before RW's induction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think you have it kind of wrong. Its not necessarily the people in Buffalo who are incapable. Its the lack of the good jobs, which leads to a lot of college grads leaving town. If the opportunities were there, people would remain. Its not like companies dont base operations in Buffalo because the people are dumb and incapable. And Zonabb-- Honestly I would definitely pay more for season tickets if I had to... Any sign of success and suddenly everyone's pockets get deep. When the Bills were 3-0, 4-1, etc... I had many friends asking me to try to procure tickets. The secondary market was so outrageous it was unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenwick Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Is the income potential of the locals, just like Ralph said. Ralph mentioned that there is not a strong enough economy currently in place to support a normal NFL ticket price, based on someone else owning the team & the initial expenses of buying a NFL team. So what he was really saying is (in the nicest way), a majority of the people that live there are incapable of doing much past menial work for menial wages to earn a normal professional living and even if they could the jobs are just not there in the first place. Sadly, upon Ralph's death I think we lost our team unless Ralph sells it ahead of time to a group capable of holding out for a better time. After 30 + years of local depression, who knows when that will come as well. The Bills will have to move eventually. Why? It started over 30 or more years ago. Loss of business in Western NY thanks to the incompentency of the polliticians. Over taxing for more give a way programs which would help poorer people and also get votes for themselves. They would not cut government costs, so they could keep power positions and govt. jobs. They had opportunities to combine Erie and City Governments to cut costs but did not. Higher taxes was and continues to be their answer. They have stymied grow. Businesses and then people have moved out and continue to do so. People will go where the jobs are. Govt. in this day and age needs to be pro-active. Something Western New Yorkers do not have. But Toronto does and most likely will soon get 100% of the Bills like it or not. Money talks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Is the income potential of the locals, just like Ralph said. Ralph mentioned that there is not a strong enough economy currently in place to support a normal NFL ticket price, based on someone else owning the team & the initial expenses of buying a NFL team. So what he was really saying is (in the nicest way), a majority of the people that live there are incapable of doing much past menial work for menial wages to earn a normal professional living and even if they could the jobs are just not there in the first place. Sadly, upon Ralph's death I think we lost our team unless Ralph sells it ahead of time to a group capable of holding out for a better time. After 30 + years of local depression, who knows when that will come as well. You post too much...thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think you have it kind of wrong. Its not necessarily the people in Buffalo who are incapable. Its the lack of the good jobs, which leads to a lot of college grads leaving town. If the opportunities were there, people would remain. Its not like companies dont base operations in Buffalo because the people are dumb and incapable. I think you're close. A new owner is going to look at corporate sponsorships and find that there aren't many. It's making money ON TOP of league revenues and ticket sales that is going to be a concern to a new owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbone Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Is the income potential of the locals, just like Ralph said. Ralph mentioned that there is not a strong enough economy currently in place to support a normal NFL ticket price, based on someone else owning the team & the initial expenses of buying a NFL team. So what he was really saying is (in the nicest way), a majority of the people that live there are incapable of doing much past menial work for menial wages to earn a normal professional living and even if they could the jobs are just not there in the first place. Sadly, upon Ralph's death I think we lost our team unless Ralph sells it ahead of time to a group capable of holding out for a better time. After 30 + years of local depression, who knows when that will come as well. Wait a minute! I thought last week some guy in a fancy car told you that Ralph, in mourning, decided to sell the team this year, and some magical tax man was going to somehow get around the law so it would all make sense and the team would forever be in Buffalo. You should seriously stop posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan74 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think fans are willing to pay more for a ticket than the Bills are currently charging. What the Bills are missing is that a good product usually leads to increased revenue. The marketing is good all they need is a winner and they can charge more for tickets IMO. I agree with zonab if the Sabres can get $200 for a mid season game vs Toronto the Bills should be able to get at least $150 for a ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 As someone who had season tickets the last couple years and as someone who works in the development field, I think there is plenty of money here to support this team. They don't need everyone in WNY, all 1.2 milloin of us, to be independently wealthy, they need 70,000 to be in good shape and a handful of viable businesses. RW's problem is he refuses to raise the prices to see what the market will bear when in fact, most would agree not only that they're cheap but that they'd pay more. Even more, with the advent of Stubhub and other brokerages that have no problem get much higher prices for tickets, it would seem that this region can pay more. Is a 16th row seat on the 50 yeard line behind the Bills bench for a MNF a $70 ticket while a Sabres ticket for a meaningless game in December on a Thursday sells for more? You can't tell me that we can't and we won't. RW's idea is simple: continue to talk down the region to attract an out of state buyer willing to pay a higher price because he feels he needs to move it, which puts more money in the greedy curmudgeon's family's pockets. I'm hoping he gets booed as loudly as possible at the HOF ceremony. I know 4 people who are going that are hoping that RW is inducted last and Bruce right before it so they can all walk out proudly in their Bills jerseys before RW's induction! First, you are an ass to hope Ralph gets booed. Second, tickets prices have little to do with the Bills staying or leaving. It is the price of the suites/boxes that matters most. The disparity is in the price the Bills get compared to other teams. Most important is the fact that the revenue generated by the suites raises the salary cap yet this is not part of revenue sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 You post too much...thanks! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 THE BILLS ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE...... #1- Short term- if we continue to sellout all home games. #2- Long Term- thanks to the shrewed marketing of the Bills Front Office they are turning this franchise into a mid to large market with their regionalization of the Toronto, Ontario market. I can not emphasize enough the importance of this effort. Embrace it , support it, it's the ONLY thing that will keep the team saying BUFFALO !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoretalk Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 There are times when I pause and remember what John Y. Brown did to the Buffalo Braves after Paul Snyder sold them. We, Buffalo fans, were accused of not being able to support an NBA team and so Mr. KFC/Mr. Phyllis George picked up the team and moved them. The truth was ... Brown decimated a team on the edge of a championship era leaving all of us who had supported the team gasping for breath. Of course we didn't come out once the McAdoo's, and DiGregorio's were gone ... and then John boy could smile and leave our community saying we couldn't support HIS team. That was the day I stopped being an NBA fan. Sadly, what Ralph Wilson has done to us as a community is to string us along ... refusing to say this is Buffalo's team and by doing that he has been playing the John Y. game. I agree that Buffalo has enough successful families who can support the Bills even at increased ticket price levels but we want an owner who signs a lease that proves the team will stay. The Bills cost Ralph only a few thousand dollars back in 1960 and today they are worth 100's of millions. It's funny but I made fun of Jason the 'feed my family' sack door opener for demanding more money because he couldn't afford to put his type of food on the table based on what the Bills were paying him but in a way Ralph is telling all of us that his family can't be satisfied with just $100 or perhaps $200 million in profit, which is what the Wilson family would end up with if the Bills commited to staying here and sold for a below market price. His legacy and reputation could be turned right around if he took the bold step of selling the Bills at that below market level price to a group commited to Buffalo such as the one Jim Kelly is working so hard to put together and before making that sale signed a binding agreement to keep the team here for another generation. As I write this I am laughing but ... with his daughter's untimely and sad death and our communal loss of Jack Kemp perhaps ... just perhaps ... Ralph will take pause to think about this community that has packed the stadium whether there were 70,000 or 80,000 seats and supported the team no matter the quality of team he paid for. The team can pay its bills and put a quality team together with TV revenue and ticket sales. The nation's economy is going to erode the 'super box sales' of many teams that depend on corporate purchases so once again we just might be on a level playing field even with the economic situation in WNY. Go Bills ... even living in NJ for more than 20 years now ... even with Ralph ... Buffalo Bills red, white, and blue (even the awful blue they now wear) runs through my veins as it has since the 1960's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Wait a minute! I thought last week some guy in a fancy car told you that Ralph, in mourning, decided to sell the team this year, and some magical tax man was going to somehow get around the law so it would all make sense and the team would forever be in Buffalo. There is more than one group in the mix, I feel that it being based on friends buying the team / Ralph leading with his heart, the team stays in Buffalo. If the other groups spend a huge amount more than the friendly group and the state incentives cannot make it up, the team is gone. The local income / population is not making major city money and saying ~7% of the population needs to make the money to afford the tickets is just silly. We have to face the reality that the area has been financially challenged for far too long to think it's going to change soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 this isn't breaking new ground. in fact, i believe you covered this topic a couple of weeks ago, though this time you left out the caustic remarks. so, in keeping with the retro theme: -- hey, has anyone seen the t.o.-hitler thing on utube? -- hey, what's everyone think about flutie-johnson? -- hey, does anyone here think t.o. can help the offense? -- hey, what's up with mike schopp? -- hey, anyone see what mcgahee said about the night-life in buffalo? -- hey, who do you think the bills will draft last month? -- hey, what's everyone think about the bills playing games in toronto? -- hey, what's everyone's take on jauron? -- hey, anyone noticed that the sky, when it's sunny out, is, in fact, blue? ugh. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I love Buffalo and growing up there gave me much of what is positive about me. I have met many people from Buffalo and they most always are tough, capable, and very likable people. The state and city governments are terrible however in Buffalo. The people are total saps when it comes to government. The first rule of thumb should be for all of NY state north of NYC to vote the exact opposite of NYC. If NYC votes dem then Buffalo should vote repub and if NYC votes repub then Buffalo should vote dem. National politics should have NOTHING to do with Buffalo's vote. The point is the rest of the state has to oppose NYC politicians as a single bloc and fight like heck for fair allotment of resources. A child could understand the logic of this but people in Buffalo never learned this simple lesson. Dems in Buffalo want to be NYC dems. lap dog and get a few bones tossed from the table to them. So what is the end result of all this. NY state helps pay for new stadiums to be built for NYC teams and will watch and wave goodbye when the Bills move after Ralph dies. Remember when Cuomo told Ralph he should move the Bills to NYC since the Jets and Giants both played in rival NJ? I have lived in 7 states since I left Buffalo and have never seen any place that had a worse govt. situation than the people in Buffalo have with NY state. I have met people who moved to Buffalo from somewhere else and they all were horrified by the NY state rip off of Buffalo taxpayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think fans are willing to pay more for a ticket than the Bills are currently charging. What the Bills are missing is that a good product usually leads to increased revenue. The marketing is good all they need is a winner and they can charge more for tickets IMO. I agree with zonab if the Sabres can get $200 for a mid season game vs Toronto the Bills should be able to get at least $150 for a ticket. I only attend one game per season, but I agree. A 10 dollar price increase wouldn't phase me even a little bit, and at RWS I get the strong feeling that there are more out of town fans than at most NFL stadiums. The thing is, how much more revenue are we talking about? 5 or 6 million dollars? It would be a nice start, but I don't know if that is enough. I wish I had answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I love Buffalo and growing up there gave me much of what is positive about me. I have met many people from Buffalo and they most always are tough, capable, and very likable people. The state and city governments are terrible however in Buffalo. The people are total saps when it comes to government. The first rule of thumb should be for all of NY state north of NYC to vote the exact opposite of NYC. If NYC votes dem then Buffalo should vote repub and if NYC votes repub then Buffalo should vote dem. National politics should have NOTHING to do with Buffalo's vote. The point is the rest of the state has to oppose NYC politicians as a single bloc and fight like heck for fair allotment of resources. A child could understand the logic of this but people in Buffalo never learned this simple lesson. Dems in Buffalo want to be NYC dems. lap dog and get a few bones tossed from the table to them. So what is the end result of all this. NY state helps pay for new stadiums to be built for NYC teams and will watch and wave goodbye when the Bills move after Ralph dies. Remember when Cuomo told Ralph he should move the Bills to NYC since the Jets and Giants both played in rival NJ? I have lived in 7 states since I left Buffalo and have never seen any place that had a worse govt. situation than the people in Buffalo have with NY state. I have met people who moved to Buffalo from somewhere else and they all were horrified by the NY state rip off of Buffalo taxpayers. Agreed. I wish everyone would do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Is the income potential of the locals, just like Ralph said. Ralph mentioned that there is not a strong enough economy currently in place to support a normal NFL ticket price, based on someone else owning the team & the initial expenses of buying a NFL team. So what he was really saying is (in the nicest way), a majority of the people that live there are incapable of doing much past menial work for menial wages to earn a normal professional living and even if they could the jobs are just not there in the first place. Sadly, upon Ralph's death I think we lost our team unless Ralph sells it ahead of time to a group capable of holding out for a better time. After 30 + years of local depression, who knows when that will come as well. says the author of innumerable baseless, mindless, useless threads, full of unfounded speculation and false edicts from an imaginary walter mitty-like existence in SW florida, driving a imagination-powered toy car, sans brains...sans mind...sans wit...sans everything... in a few short months you've gone from brash, insulting, and condescending, to stupidly annoying - all from a high speed internet connection in your mom's basement honestly, it really is about time for you to go away for awhile, until you can reinvent yourself yet again, under yet another new screen name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 There is more than one group in the mix, I feel that it being based on friends buying the team / Ralph leading with his heart, the team stays in Buffalo. If the other groups spend a huge amount more than the friendly group and the state incentives cannot make it up, the team is gone. The local income / population is not making major city money and saying ~7% of the population needs to make the money to afford the tickets is just silly. We have to face the reality that the area has been financially challenged for far too long to think it's going to change soon. Wow skoob. For someone that really wants everyone on this board to believe that he understands money, you sure post as though you're economically-illiterate. Any city, anywhere in the world, is going to act as a microcosm for the economic dichotomy that is capitolism. There's the 5% that are independently wealthy, and the 95% that are not. If you think about this in terms of the Greater Buffalo Area, you've got 1+ million people and a 70,000 seat stadium. Suppose then, that tickets become costly enough where only the wealthy could afford them. That's still a base of 50,000 that qualify to be season-ticket holders from a monetary standpoint. Which is kind of funny, considering that the team has about 50,000 season ticket holders right now. So, to sell 70,000 seats, the team would be counting on 2% (out of the remaining 95%) to come out and by a ticket 7 times per year, and it doesn't even need to be the same 2% each time. In short, the ticket-sales stuff is hog-wash. Regarding the area, the City is actually in much better shape than it was even 2-3 years ago. Not living here, don't you think it's kind of crazy for you to be commenting on it? After all, you're not here to see things like the Inner Harbor Development (which, along with the new Naval Museum, looks great along the Waterfront for those of you that haven't been there in a while--totally worth spending a day at during the spring/summer), new Courthouse construction, a new hotel/loft downtown, a new waterfront hotel just off route 5, etc. etc. I guess the moral of my post is this: there's no reason that the team can't be successful (financially) here. Many of us that live here are doing just fine, and we support local business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 says the author of innumerable baseless, mindless, useless threads, full of unfounded speculation and false edicts from an imaginary walter mitty-like existence in SW florida, driving a imagination-powered toy car, sans brains...sans mind...sans wit...sans everything... in a few short months you've gone from brash, insulting, and condescending, to stupidly annoying - all from a high speed internet connection in your mom's basement honestly, it really is about time for you to go away for awhile, until you can reinvent yourself yet again, under yet another new screen name What color is the sky in your world?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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