Jeffery Lester Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Neither left tackle who played in the superbowl is considered the best in the league at there positions. Where dominant left tackles Anthony Munoz, Walter Jones, Tony Boselli and many more never won a superbowl. At left tackle a competent athlete who is a good teammate will get the job done for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Neither left tackle who played in the superbowl is considered the best in the league at there positions. Where dominant left tackles Anthony Munoz, Walter Jones, Tony Boselli and many more never won a superbowl. At left tackle a competent athlete who is a good teammate will get the job done for you. AMEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmoffett Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Neither left tackle who played in the superbowl is considered the best in the league at there positions. Where dominant left tackles Anthony Munoz, Walter Jones, Tony Boselli and many more never won a superbowl. At left tackle a competent athlete who is a good teammate will get the job done for you. Only problem is a competent left tackle on a winning team who is getting the job done for you soon thinks he is the best in the business. Enter the Peters problem. It's considered the most important position in football to protect the quarterbacks blind side. Left tackles rarely make much in endorsements. There's no way around this issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Only problem is a competent left tackle on a winning team who is getting the job done for you soon thinks he is the best in the business. Enter the Peters problem. It's considered the most important position in football to protect the quarterbacks blind side. Left tackles rarely make much in endorsements. There's no way around this issue Really? So you expect Mike Gandy to hold out on the Cardinals this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Who knows, maybe if the Cardinals had one that day they could have won that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Yea the rest of their offensive line wasn't a laughing stock either. Ours is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Who knows, maybe if the Cardinals had one that day they could have won that game. the sad thing is gandy didn't get his jock handed to him by the nfl mvp on D that game as badly as peters did on both of our miami games by porter. the bottom line IMO is o line play is like rubgy -- it's about balance and 5 guys playing well together, rather than d line play where a single stud makes everyone better. like corners, LTs are over drafted and over paid because it is just hard to find them, and coaches are risk averse, and corners or LTs making mistakes is what makes them scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 the sad thing is gandy didn't get his jock handed to him by the nfl mvp on D that game as badly as peters did on both of our miami games by porter. the bottom line IMO is o line play is like rubgy -- it's about balance and 5 guys playing well together, rather than d line play where a single stud makes everyone better. like corners, LTs are over drafted and over paid because it is just hard to find them, and coaches are risk averse, and corners or LTs making mistakes is what makes them scared. Yep - the bottom line is that a defensive end or linebacker is going to burst through at your quarterback once your worst OL misses a block, and while it's best for him not to come in on the blind side, it's not as disproportionate as the salary for the LT indicates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 the sad thing is gandy didn't get his jock handed to him by the nfl mvp on D that game as badly as peters did on both of our miami games by porter.the bottom line IMO is o line play is like rubgy -- it's about balance and 5 guys playing well together, rather than d line play where a single stud makes everyone better. like corners, LTs are over drafted and over paid because it is just hard to find them, and coaches are risk averse, and corners or LTs making mistakes is what makes them scared. I think Gandy had an ok game, considering that he went against Harrison and also knowing the guy is merely an above average LT. What I'm trying to say is that the Cardinals could have used a better LT (in general, not talking about Peters here) when Warner and the offense couldn't move the ball becuase of heavy pressure. I do agree with your comparison with rugby, though having one or two superstars would help a lot. The problem is that the Bills FO (the current one) does neither of the two, they don't draft early linemen and they don't let the ones they obtain to gain chemistry or continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 the sad thing is gandy didn't get his jock handed to him by the nfl mvp on D that game as badly as peters did on both of our miami games by porter. the bottom line IMO is o line play is like rubgy -- it's about balance and 5 guys playing well together, rather than d line play where a single stud makes everyone better. like corners, LTs are over drafted and over paid because it is just hard to find them, and coaches are risk averse, and corners or LTs making mistakes is what makes them scared. Peters allowed one sack against Porter in 2008. It came in the first game against Miami (for a safety). Porter's other big play that game was stealing the ball from Edwards on a QB sneak. The game in Toronto, Porter got both of his sacks against Chambers. Gandy got his lunch handed to him by Harrison all game long in the Superbowl. In addition to this, I think the original poster's point is inaccurate at best. Look at the LTs for the Superbowl winners this decade: 2009 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2008 - NY Giants - David Diehl - Pro Bowler 2007 - Indianapolis - Tarik Glenn - Pro Bowler 2006 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2005 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2004 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2003 - Tampa Bay - Derrick Deese - Pro Bowler 2002 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2001 - Baltimore - Jonathan Ogden - Hall of Famer 2000 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer You can also make this case with most of the runners-up: 2009 - Arizona - Mike Gandy - Average 2008 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2007 - Chicago - John Tait - Pro Bowler 2006 - Seattle - Walter Jones - Hall of Famer 2005 - Philadelphia - Tra Thomas - Pro Bowler 2004 - Caroina - Todd Steussie - Pro Bowler 2003 - Oakland - Barry Sims - Average 2002 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer 2001 - NY Giants - Lomas Brown - Pro Bowler 2000 - Tennessee - Brad Hopkins - Pro Bowler So it would seem (at least from recent history) that you do indeed want an elite LT if you want to win the Superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornerville Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Neither left tackle who played in the superbowl is considered the best in the league at there positions. Where dominant left tackles Anthony Munoz, Walter Jones, Tony Boselli and many more never won a superbowl. At left tackle a competent athlete who is a good teammate will get the job done for you. :lol: :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Peters allowed one sack against Porter in 2008. It came in the first game against Miami (for a safety). Porter's other big play that game was stealing the ball from Edwards on a QB sneak. The game in Toronto, Porter got both of his sacks against Chambers. Gandy got his lunch handed to him by Harrison all game long in the Superbowl. In addition to this, I think the original poster's point is inaccurate at best. Look at the LTs for the Superbowl winners this decade: 2009 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2008 - NY Giants - David Diehl - Pro Bowler 2007 - Indianapolis - Tarik Glenn - Pro Bowler 2006 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2005 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2004 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2003 - Tampa Bay - Derrick Deese - Pro Bowler 2002 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2001 - Baltimore - Jonathan Ogden - Hall of Famer 2000 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer You can also make this case with most of the runners-up: 2009 - Arizona - Mike Gandy - Average 2008 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2007 - Chicago - John Tait - Pro Bowler 2006 - Seattle - Walter Jones - Hall of Famer 2005 - Philadelphia - Tra Thomas - Pro Bowler 2004 - Caroina - Todd Steussie - Pro Bowler 2003 - Oakland - Barry Sims - Average 2002 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer 2001 - NY Giants - Lomas Brown - Pro Bowler 2000 - Tennessee - Brad Hopkins - Pro Bowler So it would seem (at least from recent history) that you do indeed want an elite LT if you want to win the Superbowl. When healthy and in his brief prime, Barry Sims was better than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I guess you can look at it this way: The Bills kept going 7-9 with Peters. The Eagles kept making the playoffs without Peters. Translation (I suppose): you don't need Peters to make the playoffs. That said, we suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Yea the rest of their offensive line wasn't a laughing stock either. Ours is. Not anymore. The Bills have significantly upgraded their offense with TO. If recent history is any guide, it'll be significantly better than the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Peters allowed one sack against Porter in 2008. It came in the first game against Miami (for a safety). Porter's other big play that game was stealing the ball from Edwards on a QB sneak. The game in Toronto, Porter got both of his sacks against Chambers. Gandy got his lunch handed to him by Harrison all game long in the Superbowl. In addition to this, I think the original poster's point is inaccurate at best. Look at the LTs for the Superbowl winners this decade: 2009 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2008 - NY Giants - David Diehl - Pro Bowler 2007 - Indianapolis - Tarik Glenn - Pro Bowler 2006 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2005 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2004 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2003 - Tampa Bay - Derrick Deese - Pro Bowler 2002 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2001 - Baltimore - Jonathan Ogden - Hall of Famer 2000 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer You can also make this case with most of the runners-up: 2009 - Arizona - Mike Gandy - Average 2008 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2007 - Chicago - John Tait - Pro Bowler 2006 - Seattle - Walter Jones - Hall of Famer 2005 - Philadelphia - Tra Thomas - Pro Bowler 2004 - Caroina - Todd Steussie - Pro Bowler 2003 - Oakland - Barry Sims - Average 2002 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer 2001 - NY Giants - Lomas Brown - Pro Bowler 2000 - Tennessee - Brad Hopkins - Pro Bowler So it would seem (at least from recent history) that you do indeed want an elite LT if you want to win the Superbowl. DANG!!! Bandit, you just handed the OP and anyone who agreed with him a Smack Down!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Yea the rest of their offensive line wasn't a laughing stock either. Ours is. we have an offensive line? sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 You have to take into account the fact that Super Bowl and even AFC/NFC championship game teams all get more prime time games, more ink, etc, so their players tend to get voted to the pro bowl more than other teams. While not saying those guys were bad, how much of a difference was there between them and an average caliper tackle both in ability and compared to salary? Having the average guy, you likely get more bang for the buck! Peters allowed one sack against Porter in 2008. It came in the first game against Miami (for a safety). Porter's other big play that game was stealing the ball from Edwards on a QB sneak. The game in Toronto, Porter got both of his sacks against Chambers. Gandy got his lunch handed to him by Harrison all game long in the Superbowl. In addition to this, I think the original poster's point is inaccurate at best. Look at the LTs for the Superbowl winners this decade: 2009 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2008 - NY Giants - David Diehl - Pro Bowler 2007 - Indianapolis - Tarik Glenn - Pro Bowler 2006 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2005 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2004 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2003 - Tampa Bay - Derrick Deese - Pro Bowler 2002 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2001 - Baltimore - Jonathan Ogden - Hall of Famer 2000 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer You can also make this case with most of the runners-up: 2009 - Arizona - Mike Gandy - Average 2008 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2007 - Chicago - John Tait - Pro Bowler 2006 - Seattle - Walter Jones - Hall of Famer 2005 - Philadelphia - Tra Thomas - Pro Bowler 2004 - Caroina - Todd Steussie - Pro Bowler 2003 - Oakland - Barry Sims - Average 2002 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer 2001 - NY Giants - Lomas Brown - Pro Bowler 2000 - Tennessee - Brad Hopkins - Pro Bowler So it would seem (at least from recent history) that you do indeed want an elite LT if you want to win the Superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 A dominant LT is worth 10M per year. It's just that Jason Peters is NOT one. He is a pretty good LT. Middle of the pack tackle last year at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Who knows, maybe if the Cardinals had one that day they could have won that game. Yeah, cuz so many LT's fared well against James Harrison last season right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Peters allowed one sack against Porter in 2008. It came in the first game against Miami (for a safety). Porter's other big play that game was stealing the ball from Edwards on a QB sneak. The game in Toronto, Porter got both of his sacks against Chambers. Gandy got his lunch handed to him by Harrison all game long in the Superbowl. In addition to this, I think the original poster's point is inaccurate at best. Look at the LTs for the Superbowl winners this decade: 2009 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2008 - NY Giants - David Diehl - Pro Bowler 2007 - Indianapolis - Tarik Glenn - Pro Bowler 2006 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001 2005 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2004 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2003 - Tampa Bay - Derrick Deese - Pro Bowler 2002 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2001 - Baltimore - Jonathan Ogden - Hall of Famer 2000 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer You can also make this case with most of the runners-up: 2009 - Arizona - Mike Gandy - Average 2008 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler 2007 - Chicago - John Tait - Pro Bowler 2006 - Seattle - Walter Jones - Hall of Famer 2005 - Philadelphia - Tra Thomas - Pro Bowler 2004 - Caroina - Todd Steussie - Pro Bowler 2003 - Oakland - Barry Sims - Average 2002 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer 2001 - NY Giants - Lomas Brown - Pro Bowler 2000 - Tennessee - Brad Hopkins - Pro Bowler So it would seem (at least from recent history) that you do indeed want an elite LT if you want to win the Superbowl. This post is just as bad...... #1 Derrick Deese has never made the pro bowl according to Pro-Football Reference #2 Marvel Smith reinforces what the original poster said. #3 David Diehl has never made the pro bowl according to Pro-Football Reference #4 One a smaller note, Matt Light never made the pro bowl in any year New England won the Super Bowl. Source: Pro-football-reference.com I'm not checking the bottom list cuz it's takes too much time to do this petty stuff, but to recap.... In four of the years from your list, an average NFL tackle won the SB just like the original poster said. If you add Light's non-pro bowl years, it becomes that in 7 of 9 years a non-"dominant" LT won the Superbowl. Now, unless pro football reference is wrong, care to just make up anymore stats to help your argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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