Over rated

[colin]

Peters allowed one sack against Porter in 2008. It came in the first game against Miami (for a safety). Porter's other big play that game was stealing the ball from Edwards on a QB sneak.

 

The game in Toronto, Porter got both of his sacks against Chambers.

 

Gandy got his lunch handed to him by Harrison all game long in the Superbowl.

 

In addition to this, I think the original poster's point is inaccurate at best. Look at the LTs for the Superbowl winners this decade:

 

2009 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001

2008 - NY Giants - David Diehl - Pro Bowler

2007 - Indianapolis - Tarik Glenn - Pro Bowler

2006 - Pittsburgh - Marvel Smith - Starter at LT since 2001

2005 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler

2004 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler

2003 - Tampa Bay - Derrick Deese - Pro Bowler

2002 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler

2001 - Baltimore - Jonathan Ogden - Hall of Famer

2000 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer

 

You can also make this case with most of the runners-up:

 

2009 - Arizona - Mike Gandy - Average

2008 - New England - Matt Light - Pro Bowler

2007 - Chicago - John Tait - Pro Bowler

2006 - Seattle - Walter Jones - Hall of Famer

2005 - Philadelphia - Tra Thomas - Pro Bowler

2004 - Caroina - Todd Steussie - Pro Bowler

2003 - Oakland - Barry Sims - Average

2002 - St. Louis - Orlando Pace - Hall of Famer

2001 - NY Giants - Lomas Brown - Pro Bowler

2000 - Tennessee - Brad Hopkins - Pro Bowler

 

So it would seem (at least from recent history) that you do indeed want an elite LT if you want to win the Superbowl.

 

i watched (from the post on buffalo bills.com forums) the replays of peters vs porter. he got destroyed on more than 1 sack. he also let up a sack, and that other sack for a safety in miami against a 3 man rush. he has talent but his play for us was not that good.

[thebandit27]

This post is just as bad......

 

#1 Derrick Deese has never made the pro bowl according to Pro-Football Reference

#2 Marvel Smith reinforces what the original poster said.

#3 David Diehl has never made the pro bowl according to Pro-Football Reference

#4 One a smaller note, Matt Light never made the pro bowl in any year New England won the Super Bowl.

 

Source: Pro-football-reference.com

 

I'm not checking the bottom list cuz it's takes too much time to do this petty stuff, but to recap....

 

In four of the years from your list, and average NFL tackle won the SB just like the original poster said. If you add Light's non-pro bowl years, it becomes that in 7 of 9 years a non-"dominant" LT won the Superbowl.

 

Now, unless pro football reference is wrong, care to just make up anymore stats to help your argument?

 

I don't mean to question the football-maven that is Pro-football-reference.com (which I didn't know existed until this very post), but Diehl was an injury replacement for Jammal Brown of the Saints in 2008.

 

I couldn't find the reference for Deese, so I can't prove that one to you.

 

In regard to Light, I sincerely hope that you aren't implying that a player only plays well in pro bowl seasons, are you?

 

So what this comes down to is that you want to debunk my entire argument on the evidence that Pro-football-reference.com doesn't have Derrick Deese listed as a pro bowler?

 

Forgive me if I move right on from this post.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I'd like to try to turn the ship around here. We certainly don't need (yet) another defacto thread on Jason Peters.

 

This issue, the value of the left offensive tackle is one of the more interesting and hotly debated topics among football "scholars."

 

KC Joyner, kind of a Bill James of football came out recently with his book, "Blindsided: Why the Left Tackle is overrated and other Contrarian Football Thoughts."

 

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/p...0470124091.html

 

We'll never agree on this stuff and very few of us will change our minds. But for those who feel this is an important issue in their sporting life, maybe reading this book would be a good idea.

[RkFast]

Neither left tackle who played in the superbowl is considered the best in the league at there positions. Where dominant left tackles Anthony Munoz, Walter Jones, Tony Boselli and many more never won a superbowl. At left tackle a competent athlete who is a good teammate will get the job done for you.

 

IM in this camp, too. Any five even just mediocre linemen who have built some cohesion together and are well-coached will make up a good, competent line a team can win with.

 

The "big money" has to go to the skill postions, IMO.

[Lv-Bills]

I don't mean to question the football-maven that is Pro-football-reference.com (which I didn't know existed until this very post), but Diehl was an injury replacement for Jammal Brown of the Saints in 2008.

 

I couldn't find the reference for Deese, so I can't prove that one to you.

 

In regard to Light, I sincerely hope that you aren't implying that a player only plays well in pro bowl seasons, are you?

 

So what this comes down to is that you want to debunk my entire argument on the evidence that Pro-football-reference.com doesn't have Derrick Deese listed as a pro bowler?

 

Forgive me if I move right on from this post.

Pro Football Reference is the ultimate online bible for research on any NFL football player who ever did anything in the NFL. I only found about it from others, but once you know about it, you can check any player, any era, and it's very simple to navigate.

 

Because your post was to do nothing more than to debunk what the original poster said, I thought I would actually strike back with facts, and to point out that you were not factual with everyone you posted. You actually helped out the original poster by making me double check your stuff.

 

Diehl was never voted to the pro bowl period. Never made it. He's not indicated as a pro bowler, period. Even if he was an alternate, he wasn't an elite OT, because I would say only the voted all pro's are probably elite. The fact that Diehl was picked to replace people, if that's even true, means he was the what.....5th or 6th best LT in one conference?

 

Deese wasn't a pro bowler either. Ever. He's right on the same website. Never voted in. Matter of fact, he was a guard for most of his career until recently.

 

On the Matt Light thing......if he wasn't picked for the pro bowl in the seasons New England won the Superbowl, it means he wasn't elite or even among the upper top tier of Tackles. So, no, I'm not saying he wasn't playing well, but for statistical arguments sake, he wasn't a pro bowler in any of those SUPER BOWL wins that you based your post off of.

 

Further on Light.....I think it's a joke when a fatass like Peters who had a terrible year made the pro bowl last year, and Light has only made it twice in his career. Tom Brady has been unpressured at QB since he has come into the league, yet not many of the New England lineman ever get recognized as elite year after year like some of these other "Peters" types. So, yeah, to help your argument, I think Light is terrific, however, he wasn't or hasn't been a pro bowler for a majority of his career.

 

You can move on if you want.....I would just take time next time to actually post factual information and to do a little better of a job in who you classify as being elite next time. The fact that you completely whiffed on two guys and to a lesser extent on Light, means that you failed in rebutting the original poster. After all, you were trying to debunk him weren't you?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I'd like to try to turn the ship around here. We certainly don't need (yet) another defacto thread on Jason Peters.

 

This issue, the value of the left offensive tackle is one of the more interesting and hotly debated topics among football "scholars."

 

KC Joyner, kind of a Bill James of football came out recently with his book, "Blindsided: Why the Left Tackle is overrated and other Contrarian Football Thoughts."

 

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/p...0470124091.html

 

We'll never agree on this stuff and very few of us will change our minds. But for those who feel this is an important issue in their sporting life, maybe reading this book would be a good idea.

Thanks for posting that SJ, but that link doesn't seem to be working for me.

[thebandit27]

Pro Football Reference is the ultimate online bible for research on any NFL football player who ever did anything in the NFL. I only found about it from others, but once you know about it, you can check any player, any era, and it's very simple to navigate.

 

Because your post was to do nothing more than to debunk what the original poster said, I thought I would actually strike back with facts, and to point out that you were not factual with everyone you posted. You actually helped out the original poster by making me double check your stuff.

 

Diehl was never voted to the pro bowl period. Never made it. He's not indicated as a pro bowler, period. Even if he was an alternate, he wasn't an elite OT, because I would say only the voted all pro's are probably elite. The fact that Diehl was picked to replace people, if that's even true, means he was the what.....5th or 6th best LT in one conference?

 

Deese wasn't a pro bowler either. Ever. He's right on the same website. Never voted in. Matter of fact, he was a guard for most of his career until recently.

 

On the Matt Light thing......if he wasn't picked for the pro bowl in the seasons New England won the Superbowl, it means he wasn't elite or even among the upper top tier of Tackles. So, no, I'm not saying he wasn't playing well, but for statistical arguments sake, he wasn't a pro bowler in any of those SUPER BOWL wins that you based your post off of.

 

Further on Light.....I think it's a joke when a fatass like Peters who had a terrible year made the pro bowl last year, and Light has only made it twice in his career. Tom Brady has been unpressured at QB since he has come into the league, yet not many of the New England lineman ever get recognized as elite year after year like some of these other "Peters" types. So, yeah, to help your argument, I think Light is terrific, however, he wasn't or hasn't been a pro bowler for a majority of his career.

 

You can move on if you want.....I would just take time next time to actually post factual information and to do a little better of a job in who you classify as being elite next time. The fact that you completely whiffed on two guys and to a lesser extent on Light, means that you failed in rebutting the original poster. After all, you were trying to debunk him weren't you?

 

Now I must respectfully question your research abilities, since pro-football-reference lists Deese as a LT for 7 of his 11 years in the league (2 of the others he played RT). He came into the league as a guard in 1994, moved to tackle in 1996, and moved back to guard his final season in 2004. And you'll have to excuse my confusion, as apparently there is some discrepancy as to Deese's accolades. You see, ESPN lists him as a former pro bowler, while pro-football-reference lists him as an All-Pro (as a side note: what does it mean when the words pro bowl with an asterisk appear next to the player's name? because that's the case with Deese). While I'm sure that some would claim that one honor is more esteemed than the other, I'll just say that, clearly, he was among the top in the game (at least either the AP or his peers/coaches thought so).

 

Also, and again I'm not trying to be a jerk here, you should re-read your own post. You heavily contradict yourself. Regarding David Diehl, you wrote:

 

"I would say only the voted all pro's are probably elite."

 

And then later, regarding Matt Light, you wrote:

 

"if he wasn't picked for the pro bowl in the seasons New England won the Superbowl, it means he wasn't elite or even among the upper top tier of Tackles. Further on Light.....I think it's a joke when a fatass like Peters who had a terrible year made the pro bowl last year, and Light has only made it twice in his career."

 

So which is it? Do pro bowls indicate elite level of play, or not?

 

Also, I did not mean to indicate that the players I listed made the pro bowl in the year that their teams won the Super Bowl. The point is that the majority of LTs on those teams are either long-term starters, current/former/future pro bowlers, or hall-of-famers. Is this not the case?