UBTeger Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Why do the Bills not run a 3-4 defense. Many of the elite teams in the NFL/AFC run the 3-4. I know you have to have the right personnel as well as a coach to run this but if you look at it many of the playoff teams or teams that were on the brink of playoffs run this defense. For instance, Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Bears, Dallas, San Diego and I am sure there are more. Looking at all of those teams I have just listed most if not all have fantastic defenses. It seems to me that the Cover 2 is a dying defense. It was great when first introduce in Tampa and quickly was adopted by many teams. On this subject as well I feel that the Bills adopted this defensive strategy way to late compared to the other teams. Now that this type of defense is in decline i feel it is imperative that the Bills find a niche that will work for them on defense. This defense is all over the place as far as sometimes they show up and play extremely well and sometimes they are god awful and there seems to be no in between. In my opinion I feel like a change needs to happen to the defense in order to stay with the times. That is my two cents take it for what its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeJuiceSimpson Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I agree I love the 3-4 D, however we don't have the personel as you've stated. The cover 2 can work if you have enough talent but the Bills don't. There's not even a chance with this staff. Maybe next year if they get fired after another 7-9 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psaunders Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I agree I love the 3-4 D, however we don't have the personel as you've stated. The cover 2 can work if you have enough talent but the Bills don't. There's not even a chance with this staff. Maybe next year if they get fired after another 7-9 season. I think that we could easily implement the defense. Think about it we have our big boy stroud playing tackle getting doubled team, and one end has to be another DT because he is inside and u have a backer outside of him. So you put spencer johnson who is smaller and quick in that d-end/tackle spot. You keep kelsay or get a better DE to replace him. We have poz in the middle and put mitchell outside. Now we ither have to resign Crowell or draft another guy. We bring in a guy like terrel suggs who is a FA this year because he is experienced and will be a great foundation. Now we can do three things keep kelsay as a backup and put schobel at the DE spot, we could move him outside as one of those DE/Backers guy which i think would work well, finally we could release him and draft Ray Malaluga from USC who is a beast or Brian Cushing the other backer from USC. so we would have the 3-4 front covered. we got our corners and safeties. One other optioin i forgot about is have schobel outside and draft Mays the big playmaker out of USC, have him play SS because no matter what next year whitner is playing FS, so what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPeaTear Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think that we could easily implement the defense. Think about it we have our big boy stroud playing tackle getting doubled team, and one end has to be another DT because he is inside and u have a backer outside of him. So you put spencer johnson who is smaller and quick in that d-end/tackle spot. You keep kelsay or get a better DE to replace him. We have poz in the middle and put mitchell outside. Now we ither have to resign Crowell or draft another guy. We bring in a guy like terrel suggs who is a FA this year because he is experienced and will be a great foundation. Now we can do three things keep kelsay as a backup and put schobel at the DE spot, we could move him outside as one of those DE/Backers guy which i think would work well, finally we could release him and draft Ray Malaluga from USC who is a beast or Brian Cushing the other backer from USC. so we would have the 3-4 front covered. we got our corners and safeties. One other optioin i forgot about is have schobel outside and draft Mays the big playmaker out of USC, have him play SS because no matter what next year whitner is playing FS, so what do you guys think? It would take a couple of seasons at best for this team to become a 3-4 team. Almost everyone would have to go, including our backups. The only guy on our dline who might be able to play in the 3-4 is stroud. Its a unlikely transistion. And Theres no way in hell schobel can play in a 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Because it would require a complete overhaul of the current players on the defence and coaching staff to pull it off. The current players are not built for the 3-4 Defence. The current defence isn't as bad as everyone wants to think and are closer to being a good defence that its not in the teams best interest to start all over again right now, unless you want to give the current coaching staff more time to build a winner in Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 3-4 and cover 2 aren't mutually exclusive, right? For instance, when Wade was here, we ran a 3-4, but with a lot of cover-2 coverage. My problem is that our version of the cover-2 (this so-called Tampa-2) is all about these super fast and quick d-linemen (and LB's and safeties), which we don't really have, which are hard to find, and which oftentimes tend to get bull-dozed over in the run game anyway. Our problem going to a 3-4 is really: (1) what to do with stroud, williams, and schobel? (2) no true NT; and (3) no true 3-4 ends (although I wonder if Stroud could play end in a 3-4?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 3-4 and cover 2 aren't mutually exclusive, right? For instance, when Wade was here, we ran a 3-4, but with a lot of cover-2 coverage. amen i don't think people understand that you can run a cover-2 out of any personnel grouping: 4-3, 3-4, 3-1, 2-5, whatever. all "cover 2" means is that 2 players (dont even have to be safeties) cover the deep halves of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Why do the Bills not run a 3-4 defense. Many of the elite teams in the NFL/AFC run the 3-4. I know you have to have the right personnel as well as a coach to run this but if you look at it many of the playoff teams or teams that were on the brink of playoffs run this defense. For instance, Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Bears, Dallas, San Diego and I am sure there are more. Looking at all of those teams I have just listed most if not all have fantastic defenses. It seems to me that the Cover 2 is a dying defense. It was great when first introduce in Tampa and quickly was adopted by many teams. On this subject as well I feel that the Bills adopted this defensive strategy way to late compared to the other teams. Now that this type of defense is in decline i feel it is imperative that the Bills find a niche that will work for them on defense. This defense is all over the place as far as sometimes they show up and play extremely well and sometimes they are god awful and there seems to be no in between. In my opinion I feel like a change needs to happen to the defense in order to stay with the times. That is my two cents take it for what its worth. A vast majority of playoff teams do not run a base 3-4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 We've talked about this over and over. I have come to grips withthe fact that our 3-4 days are gone. Unless we bring in a completely new staff and Ralph has a flashback of what we were in a 3-4, it'll never happen. A 4-3 isn't bad if you have the proper personel for the job. We need another big, disruptive DT and 2 pass-rushing guys on the edge. We get those this offseason and the benefits will be evident to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't think ANYONE on this team knows ANYTHING about the 3-4. They seem befuddled by it. They look confused and disoriented when other teams use it against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 New England uses three def. tackles as their down linemen. We could do the same thing with Stroud, Johnson and Williams. Move Schobel to outside linebacker. Play Digiorgio inside with Poz-Voila! Unfortunately this staff doesn't know from the 3-4. But it is a much better D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 3-4 and cover 2 aren't mutually exclusive, right? For instance, when Wade was here, we ran a 3-4, but with a lot of cover-2 coverage. My problem is that our version of the cover-2 (this so-called Tampa-2) is all about these super fast and quick d-linemen (and LB's and safeties), which we don't really have, which are hard to find, and which oftentimes tend to get bull-dozed over in the run game anyway. Our problem going to a 3-4 is really: (1) what to do with stroud, williams, and schobel? (2) no true NT; and (3) no true 3-4 ends (although I wonder if Stroud could play end in a 3-4?) That's exactly what Wade's doing in Dallas right now. He doesn't have a pure 3-4 NT like Williams, Washington or Williams (SD) so he's using Tank Johnson, a 4-3 under tackle as his nose. At the end of the day, Wade's running a "tampa 2" 3-4 scheme that blitzes a little more than we do. I think the 3-4 is great; a 4-3 is just as good. But you (like many have stated) need the horses or neither will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Switching to a 3-4 isn't going to mean instant success. We can switch to whatever defensive scheme we want, but until we get some defensive terrors and some coaches that wont play our CBs 15 yards off the ball, it isn't going to matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Cover 2 is horrible I agree 10000% .. Since they introduced it we can't stop anyone good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 the 3-4 can be just as terrible as the Tampa-2. For any defense to be "great" you need the personnel. It does seem though that it is harder for the Tampa-2 to be even be a "very good" defense because it's so conservative and because it relies mainly on the front-4 for pressure, requiring top end pass rushers. I hope we at least transition to a more aggressive 4-3 style where we bring the blitz a lot more often - or even a more traditional 4-3 with another plugger DT (and with that we could be more flexible in our fronts, even occasionally showing a 3-4 look). But to be very good we need the pass rushers, whether they have their hand down or not. Without Schobel we had nothing this year and he's already into his 30s and coming off injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Why do the Bills not run a 3-4 defense. Many of the elite teams in the NFL/AFC run the 3-4. I know you have to have the right personnel as well as a coach to run this but if you look at it many of the playoff teams or teams that were on the brink of playoffs run this defense. For instance, Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Bears, Dallas, San Diego and I am sure there are more. Looking at all of those teams I have just listed most if not all have fantastic defenses. It seems to me that the Cover 2 is a dying defense. It was great when first introduce in Tampa and quickly was adopted by many teams. On this subject as well I feel that the Bills adopted this defensive strategy way to late compared to the other teams. Now that this type of defense is in decline i feel it is imperative that the Bills find a niche that will work for them on defense. This defense is all over the place as far as sometimes they show up and play extremely well and sometimes they are god awful and there seems to be no in between. In my opinion I feel like a change needs to happen to the defense in order to stay with the times. That is my two cents take it for what its worth. We don't have the player personnel for the 3-4. We don't have the defensive coordinator for the 3-4. We don't have the head coach for the 3-4. No defense will succeed w/o a pass rush, and almost any kind of defense will be successful with a pass rush. Hence, we should worry about getting a pass rush before worrying about getting a new scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The 3-4 defense isn't some holy talisman to defensive glory. It's a scheme that happens to be run very well by several very good defensive coordinators with excellent talent. Some great coordinators run the Cover 2 to perfection with great talent, and others run a 4-3 to the top of the league's rankings with a good front 7 and a strong secondary. Switching to a 3-4 won't make us any more like the Ravens' D this year than would changing our colors to black and purple. Get talent, get coaching. No more assumptions that a scheme change is going to solve all of our problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Tampa and Chicago seem to always have top 10 defenses with the cover 2. And for all the winning about the cover 2, we finished 14th in total yards without any type of pass rush. If we get any pass rush, this very easy could be a top 10 defense. Plus in a division with all 3-4 defenses, having a different look could be a big advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Why do the Bills not run a 3-4 defense. Many of the elite teams in the NFL/AFC run the 3-4. I know you have to have the right personnel as well as a coach to run this but if you look at it many of the playoff teams or teams that were on the brink of playoffs run this defense. For instance, Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Bears, Dallas, San Diego and I am sure there are more. Looking at all of those teams I have just listed most if not all have fantastic defenses. It seems to me that the Cover 2 is a dying defense. It was great when first introduce in Tampa and quickly was adopted by many teams. On this subject as well I feel that the Bills adopted this defensive strategy way to late compared to the other teams. Now that this type of defense is in decline i feel it is imperative that the Bills find a niche that will work for them on defense. This defense is all over the place as far as sometimes they show up and play extremely well and sometimes they are god awful and there seems to be no in between. In my opinion I feel like a change needs to happen to the defense in order to stay with the times. That is my two cents take it for what its worth. Sorry, UBT, I did not even read your post. I did not have to...I hate the cover 2 defense, so I am right there with you. I know personnel is important but holy makerol I am done with this Tampa 2, just go back to the 3-4 and enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossage Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 We actually did a lot of different things with our coverages this year other than having two deep safeties. I dont have the energy right now to get into types of coverage. As a run defense, we totally subscribe to the cover 2 philosophy. Mitchell blitzes, poslusny cleans up, ellison runs around and does nothing and our safeties fill in the gaps. Stroud gets double teamed, out other dt penetrates, blah blah blah. We could dog the weak side and blitz a linebacker (if we had someone with some size instead of ellison) and the effect would be that of a 4-3. The ravens can turn a 3-4 into a 5-2 or a 4-3 easily. So can we. The formation you start with really isnt the answer. A power running team would rather run inside against a 3-4 team. Try dealing with two tight ends and a fullback with a base 3-4. You arent going to be able to fill those gaps with players that wont get blown off the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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