billybob Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Cleveland 4-12 Cincinnati 4-11-1 New Orleans 8-8 Houston 8-8 Dallas 9-7 San Diego just escaped being in this group- I bring this up, because these teams have the type of players, I think to myself- if only the Bills had a guy like that we'd be going to the playoffs- you have highly regarded QBs, Big time receivers, star DEs and DTs and yet not much more production than the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Ike Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Cleveland 4-12 Cincinnati 4-11-1 New Orleans 8-8 Houston 8-8 Dallas 9-7 San Diego just escaped being in this group- I bring this up, because these teams have the type of players, I think to myself- if only the Bills had a guy like that we'd be going to the playoffs- you have highly regarded QBs, Big time receivers, star DEs and DTs and yet not much more production than the Bills. Who is "Coaches that should or have been fired" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Cleveland 4-12 Cincinnati 4-11-1 New Orleans 8-8 Houston 8-8 Dallas 9-7 San Diego just escaped being in this group- I bring this up, because these teams have the type of players, I think to myself- if only the Bills had a guy like that we'd be going to the playoffs- you have highly regarded QBs, Big time receivers, star DEs and DTs and yet not much more production than the Bills. Considering the complete and utter lack of defense on each team and the difficult schedules they faced, I wouldnt really say that Houston and New Orleans underachieved this year. 8-8 is about right on the money for both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Considering the complete and utter lack of defense on each team and the difficult schedules they faced, I wouldnt really say that Houston and New Orleans underachieved this year. 8-8 is about right on the money for both of them. I agree with you on Houston, espeicially with injury to Schaub, but N.O. definitely underachieved. You dont have a QB that passes for 15 yards less than the league record for a season and not make the playoffs. I mean Manning made the playoffs all those years with a joke of a D. Over 5,000 yards passing and all they can muster is 8 wins...and they were expected to be good and have a prolific offense. Not to mention they brought in Vilma and a few other D additions to help with their D. So I would say, they definitely under achieved. Cincinatti and Cle were no surprise to me as I didnt expect either to be above .500 this year. Dallas you can say underachieved, but if Romo doesnt get hurt they surely make the playoffs. That being said, Romo still chokes when it counts as they still had a shot and he stunk it up when it counted and was dreadful against Philly. So, given they still had life for the playoffs and missed you can't really blame the injury as they were pretty much healthy when it counted and still stunk, so they are definitely an underachiever. You can also add in the Jets to this list and I think the Packers. The QB play was the only question mark and Rodgers was pretty good. Considering how good the team was the previous year and that it was still in tact from the year before, with solid QB play like they had they should have easily made the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Denver also. Don't forget the almighty Jay Cutler and his band of underachievers. They blew a 4 game lead with 4 games left. That has to be one of the most monumental collapses of all time. It cost Shannahan his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 What got me looking at this was when I was checking out Owen Daniels TE and I started looking at Houston- QB with a very good QB rating, stud WR, very productive RB, and TE, highly rated DE, MLB - much hyped DT- some of these teams had injuries but you could say the same about the Bills - Edwards, Schobel, Reed, Greer and Crowell plus the Peters disaster- my point is I thought I knew where you have to be good to win- but I look at these teams and think it's a little more complicated and mysterious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Cleveland 4-12 Cincinnati 4-11-1 New Orleans 8-8 Houston 8-8 Dallas 9-7 San Diego just escaped being in this group- I bring this up, because these teams have the type of players, I think to myself- if only the Bills had a guy like that we'd be going to the playoffs- you have highly regarded QBs, Big time receivers, star DEs and DTs and yet not much more production than the Bills. I agree with Saints, Texans and Cowgirls. Cinci was playing their second string QB so hard to agree. Cleveland has talent at TE and WR. They had a qb meltdown and little talent on the defensive side of the ball. Will be interesting to see if Mangini ends up there. Tough situation because people will be expecting an immediate turnaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 What got me looking at this was when I was checking out Owen Daniels TE and I started looking at Houston- QB with a very good QB rating, stud WR, very productive RB, and TE, highly rated DE, MLB - much hyped DT- some of these teams had injuries but you could say the same about the Bills - Edwards, Schobel, Reed, Greer and Crowell plus the Peters disaster- my point is I thought I knew where you have to be good to win- but I look at these teams and think it's a little more complicated and mysterious. This just goes to show that overpaying for some high priced FA is not the answer. You need to be solid as a unit. Name one FA that Pitt, NE, NYG, Balt, or Indy have over paid for? There isnt one...they have won the last 7 SB's. How many SB's has Dallas, Washington, Jets, or Raiders won in the last 10 years of over paying high profile FA's? Um, ZERO. So your point above is good...its more complicated then just compiling a few stud players. You need players that fit your scheme/system, need depth, and most importantly you need to do this by building through the draft... Not once in NFL history has going out and over spending on high profile FA's ever won a superbowl...this hasnt worked a single time ever which makes me laugh when I see people crying out to offer Peppers or Haynesworth way more than the going rate to lure them here when there is zero chance they come her anyway. As if acquiring them will suddenly make Trent a QB who can throw to his WR's, or make the OL block better, or make the team stay healthy, or make the Tight End more productive, or make Hardy develop into a stud, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Friends Call Me Tebucky Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think Green Bay at 6-10 was a more underachieving team than any listed so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Friends Call Me Tebucky Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 This just goes to show that overpaying for some high priced FA is not the answer. You need to be solid as a unit. Name one FA that Pitt, NE, NYG, Balt, or Indy have over paid for? There isnt one...they have won the last 7 SB's. There's a theme there, sure. But those teams have made some FA mistakes too. I think Baltimore overpaid for Samari Rolle. Lavar Arrington with the Giants? The Patriots overpaid Stallworth and Colvin. I'm sure the contract Duce Staley signed in Pittsburgh wasn't insanely high, but he wasn't worth it. Other teams make free agency mistakes, even the good ones. They're just harder to notice because those teams win consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 This just goes to show that overpaying for some high priced FA is not the answer. You need to be solid as a unit. Name one FA that Pitt, NE, NYG, Balt, or Indy have over paid for? There isnt one...they have won the last 7 SB's. How many SB's has Dallas, Washington, Jets, or Raiders won in the last 10 years of over paying high profile FA's? Um, ZERO. So your point above is good...its more complicated then just compiling a few stud players. You need players that fit your scheme/system, need depth, and most importantly you need to do this by building through the draft... Not once in NFL history has going out and over spending on high profile FA's ever won a superbowl...this hasnt worked a single time ever which makes me laugh when I see people crying out to offer Peppers or Haynesworth way more than the going rate to lure them here when there is zero chance they come her anyway. As if acquiring them will suddenly make Trent a QB who can throw to his WR's, or make the OL block better, or make the team stay healthy, or make the Tight End more productive, or make Hardy develop into a stud, etc... I would agree with you that you can't buy your way to the superbowl- but would disagree if you're saying you can't get better using FA- as for building through the draft I agree but the Bills unfortunately haven't been very good in that area- and our coach is not particularly good either - so I'm not looking for a Superbowl anytime soon- but can't we be at least fun to watch and be relevant down the stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 This just goes to show that overpaying for some high priced FA is not the answer. You need to be solid as a unit. Name one FA that Pitt, NE, NYG, Balt, or Indy have over paid for? There isnt one...they have won the last 7 SB's. How many SB's has Dallas, Washington, Jets, or Raiders won in the last 10 years of over paying high profile FA's? Um, ZERO. So your point above is good...its more complicated then just compiling a few stud players. You need players that fit your scheme/system, need depth, and most importantly you need to do this by building through the draft... Not once in NFL history has going out and over spending on high profile FA's ever won a superbowl...this hasnt worked a single time ever which makes me laugh when I see people crying out to offer Peppers or Haynesworth way more than the going rate to lure them here when there is zero chance they come her anyway. As if acquiring them will suddenly make Trent a QB who can throw to his WR's, or make the OL block better, or make the team stay healthy, or make the Tight End more productive, or make Hardy develop into a stud, etc... Have to partially disagree. Plenty of times going out and overpaying for one key FA has led a team to the SB. Doing it as a regular way of doing business doesn't work, though, you're right. My favorite example is Green Bay. Getting Reggie White absolutely put them over the top. So getting one guy, whether Haynesworth or Peppers (though I don't expect either to be available on the open market) might be a terrific move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 There's a theme there, sure. But those teams have made some FA mistakes too. I think Baltimore overpaid for Samari Rolle. Lavar Arrington with the Giants? The Patriots overpaid Stallworth and Colvin. I'm sure the contract Duce Staley signed in Pittsburgh wasn't insanely high, but he wasn't worth it. Other teams make free agency mistakes, even the good ones. They're just harder to notice because those teams win consistently. I should clarify a bit...what I was saying is that going out and getting the big names out there and spending way more than they are worth is not the key to winning...I would not classify Lavar on that list or Staley. Sure, they didnt pan out, but they were not paid enormous amounts of money as what I was referring to and injuries cut their value short. No one team drafts or signs FA's perfectly, but those teams I mentioned do not generally give players absurds amounts of money just to come play for them or even retain them like Wash, Dallas, Jets, and Raiders have typically done in recent years. It was more directed at those saying pay Peppers or Haynesworth (who both likely stay where they are at) 2 or 3 million per year more than what they are offered in Car or Tenn respectively. I have even seen posts arguing we should offer Haynesworth $13 million per year when he doesnt even fill a top 5 need on our team (DE, LB, TE, C, QB are all more pressing needs than DT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poeticlaw Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Cleveland 4-12 Cincinnati 4-11-1 New Orleans 8-8 Houston 8-8 Dallas 9-7 San Diego just escaped being in this group- I bring this up, because these teams have the type of players, I think to myself- if only the Bills had a guy like that we'd be going to the playoffs- you have highly regarded QBs, Big time receivers, star DEs and DTs and yet not much more production than the Bills. Cleveland 4-12 - multiple QBS injured Cincinnati 4-11-1 - Carlson Plamer INJURED New Orleans 8-8- No defense to speak of Houston 8-8- This was actually an improvement for a growing team now dont you think? Dallas 9-7- Wade Phillips DREAM KILLER- He is not capable of being a successful head coach and under utilizes his talents all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I would agree with you that you can't buy your way to the superbowl- but would disagree if you're saying you can't get better using FA- as for building through the draft I agree but the Bills unfortunately haven't been very good in that area- and our coach is not particularly good either - so I'm not looking for a Superbowl anytime soon- but can't we be at least fun to watch and be relevant down the stretch. Again, just to clarify. I am not saying FA doesnt help...its a key part of building a team sure. But overspending to bring in big names is not the key to FA and its been proven over and over again in the NFL by the biggest culprits (Dallas, Wash, Raiders, Jets) and its even true in other sports for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 There's a theme there, sure. But those teams have made some FA mistakes too. I think Baltimore overpaid for Samari Rolle. Lavar Arrington with the Giants? The Patriots overpaid Stallworth and Colvin. I'm sure the contract Duce Staley signed in Pittsburgh wasn't insanely high, but he wasn't worth it. Other teams make free agency mistakes, even the good ones. They're just harder to notice because those teams win consistently. The Steelers signed Mahan to play center last year from Tampa Bay and he sucked....Then they went out and signed another center this year and he has been the weak link again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Dallas 9-7- Wade Phillips DREAM KILLER- He is not capable of being a successful head coach and under utilizes his talents all the time. Unfortunately for Wade he has been the HC of three teams that had meddling owners.....Broncos under Elway - Pat Bowlen was managing the team personnel at that time....Ralph Wilson thrust on Wade to go with Rob Johnson instead of Doug Flutie and the final straw, with Jerry Jones pushing all the malcontents on to Wade....His teams were never going to have chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Cleveland 4-12 Cincinnati 4-11-1 New Orleans 8-8 Houston 8-8 Dallas 9-7 I wouldn't list Cleveland or Cincy as underachieving since they just flat out suck. 2007 was a fluke for the Browns. Dallas obviously is the runaway winner here, and Philly and San Diego both escaped this list by the skin of their teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 There's a theme there, sure. But those teams have made some FA mistakes too. I think Baltimore overpaid for Samari Rolle. Lavar Arrington with the Giants? The Patriots overpaid Stallworth and Colvin. I'm sure the contract Duce Staley signed in Pittsburgh wasn't insanely high, but he wasn't worth it. Other teams make free agency mistakes, even the good ones. They're just harder to notice because those teams win consistently. a note on the Stallworth contract. It was reported as something like 6 years, 30 million, but in reality it was a 1 year for a few million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Denver also. Don't forget the almighty Jay Cutler and his band of underachievers. They blew a 4 game lead with 4 games left. That has to be one of the most monumental collapses of all time. It cost Shannahan his job. zero D. Cutler didn't underachieve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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