Chef Jim Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Dude you act as though what you say is the be all end all. It's not. Get over yourself. And I worked for a company that was in that business. The retreats they had NEVER EVER came even close to that price. Not even close. And when business is failing, change the way you do business. Don't go to the spa or golfing. Work in a board room. It's not about saving $400k. It's about dumb business practice that people like you like to excuse. Shall I tell you from true experience? I do lots of business with American General. I don't have to, I just do because they have the industries best products. We go on great trips. They "invite" (you have to qualify) probably 300 people for a four night stay in places like Ritz-Carlton. Do the math. $400k divided by 300 people is only $1300 per person. And of the 300 people maybe ten worked for American General, the rest were independent firms. Get a clue before you B word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Surely this right wing rag can't be all wrong? Well, I'm a liberal so I have to agree with everything in the NYT, right? The reason so many free-market types want them to go into Ch 11 is right there: Bankruptcy would give G.M. enormous leverage with its debt holders — and, perhaps more important, with the U.A.W., whose gold-plated benefits are one reason G.M. is no longer competitive. This is about crushing the UAW. The same thing that could be accomplished by filing Ch 11, minus letting them destroy the American worker, can be done via the bridge loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 but...but...but....what Company would buy parts from a bankrupt supplier?? Which is not nearly the same thing as the cash-strapped American consumer purchasing an automobile with what amounts to 50% of the typical workers' yearly salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Well, I'm a liberal so I have to agree with everything in the NYT, right? The reason so many free-market types want them to go into Ch 11 is right there: This is about crushing the UAW. The same thing that could be accomplished by filing Ch 11, minus letting them destroy the American worker, can be done via the bridge loan. Did you miss the part about closing dealerships and reorganizing the entire company top to bottom? How can you say with a straight face that what needs to be done, can be done with a bridge loan? It's absurd to even suggest it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Well, I'm a liberal so I have to agree with everything in the NYT, right? The reason so many free-market types want them to go into Ch 11 is right there: This is about crushing the UAW. The same thing that could be accomplished by filing Ch 11, minus letting them destroy the American worker, can be done via the bridge loan. Keep dreaming and sinking $25 billion every year, as Toyota and Honda continue taking market share. You do recognize that the wily Japanese pay similar wages in their plants in the US, but the work rules are different and more flexible. You do recognize that the Southern states gained at the expense of UAW strongholds in Northeast & Midwest. Hurray for moral victories as people continue to move to the Carolinas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Did you miss the part about closing dealerships and reorganizing the entire company top to bottom? How can you say with a straight face that what needs to be done, can be done with a bridge loan? It's absurd to even suggest it. Did you miss the 450 point nosedive in the Dow this afternoon right after the prospect of a loan disappeared? Its not just about closing dealerships, reorganizing and screwing the UAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Did you miss the 450 point nosedive in the Dow this afternoon right after the prospect of a loan disappeared? Its not just about closing dealerships, reorganizing and screwing the UAW. I'm sure that it was the sole reason for the drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I'm sure that it was the sole reason for the drop When the market goes down, we call it "Profit Taking". It's science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Well, I'm a liberal so I have to agree with everything in the NYT, right? The reason so many free-market types want them to go into Ch 11 is right there: This is about crushing the UAW. The same thing that could be accomplished by filing Ch 11, minus letting them destroy the American worker, can be done via the bridge loan. The same way Honda is destroying them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Change Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Well, I'm a liberal so I have to agree with everything in the NYT, right? The reason so many free-market types want them to go into Ch 11 is right there: This is about crushing the UAW. The same thing that could be accomplished by filing Ch 11, minus letting them destroy the American worker, can be done via the bridge loan. I don't understand why Dingy Harry Reid would want to break the UAW. They're one of the Democrats biggest contributors. What's up with that Jonni? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Change Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Did you miss the 450 point nosedive in the Dow this afternoon right after the prospect of a loan disappeared? Its not just about closing dealerships, reorganizing and screwing the UAW. Then why don't the Democrats DO SOMETHING LIKE GIVE THEM THE MONEY? Sorry about yelling...my caps lock got stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 This could be conjecture, but I highly doubt you were anywhere near the stratosphere of a top producing agent. So please spare me the sanctimony of what they should expect. If anything, AIG will probably have to pay higher commissions and add more perks because they are in trouble. How many times does it have to be explained to you that the expense was not for AIG's benefit, but for their agents who are very likely to work with a competitor? Boy, I am so looking forward to the pervasive mentality that cost control is better than revenue generation in private enterprise. I can't understand why people think cost control is the way to go over revenue generation either. Like the UAW says, "you can't shrink your way to profitability." But that's what most companies have done, they tried to cut labor costs to the bare bone and it's biting them in the butt. Meanwhile, the brass spend wildly on golf outings. That's not about business, it's about eliteism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Force the auto companies to start making infrastructure for the country. If the cars are so useless, force them to make things people can actually benefit from. No more automobiles, just bridges, roads and other systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 That's the difference. Who the hell would buy a car from a company in banckruptcy??? "Independent warranties" ?? You buy the automobile and then can have it worked on anywhere. Parts becomes an issue though... There is no reason why the aftermarket compaines can't gobble it up. This is one of the reason's I bought my 2006 Jeep TJ (right before the new design)... In essence, they have been building the same vehicle for 60 years... There is not one part I can find that has to be Mopar. Why can't they build models like the 1940's to 2006 Jeeps? Of course they can incorporate better tech for modern safety in passenger vehicles... What I am saying... Why can't they use this parts model for coming up with vehicles? Then Jeep goes and changes that for the 2007 model! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 The aftermarket has proven to be very adept in meeting those needs, much in the same way you can get service & parts for virtually every car that has ever been produced. I don't recall this outcry when GM killed Oldsmobile or Chrysler did with Plymouth. Your fear would only be realized in a full liquidation. But the prospect of GM liquidating completely is as remote as the plagues descending before the San Diego game. Agree with aftermarket ability to fix/maintain vehicles. Who backs the warranty period on cars sold by a bankrupt company? I'd want to know that before I bought a car from such a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 When a 1st class plane ticket costs $800? I am not fully understanding all of this but on the outside looking in I dont want the workers to suffer (that poor schmoe like me who just trudges off to work every day to feed his family) and i also dont want to help these private jet flying execs who will still be rich no matter what. I dont know what the solution is here. Where are you getting $800 first class tickets? Assuming you want an actual first class cabin - where only other first class passangers can listen in on your business calls, such as on a 747 or bigger - and you want the ticket to be refundable, and you are not getting a last minute super-saver, I think you are looking more at $10,000. I know business class from DC to Europe tends to be about $6,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Where are you getting $800 first class tickets? Assuming you want an actual first class cabin - where only other first class passangers can listen in on your business calls, such as on a 747 or bigger - and you want the ticket to be refundable, and you are not getting a last minute super-saver, I think you are looking more at $10,000. I know business class from DC to Europe tends to be about $6,000. It was on a news report in my area. KKAL Channel 9 in the morning a couple of days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 It was on a news report in my area. KKAL Channel 9 in the morning a couple of days ago. PS. If your numbers are accurate then they might have actually saved money since they brought their wives along on the company jet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 PS. If your numbers are accurate then they might have actually saved money since they brought their wives along on the company jet. What the hell are you guys talking about? They flew from Detroit to DC. It's a 90-minute flight. You can get four round trip tickets on Southwest Airline for under $1500. And they get free peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 What the hell are you guys talking about? They flew from Detroit to DC. It's a 90-minute flight. You can get four round trip tickets on Southwest Airline for under $1500. And they get free peanuts. Exactly! If anything it would have been a PR coup if they would have flown commercial... Then again, I wouldn't expect them to get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Change Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 And they get free peanuts. Mmmm, tasty. But I've got news for you Mr. LABF, they aren't FREE. Someone has to pay for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 What the hell are you guys talking about? They flew from Detroit to DC. It's a 90-minute flight. You can get four round trip tickets on Southwest Airline for under $1500. And they get free peanuts. LA....I was actually making the reference that not only are they abusing money they are supposed to have with the private jet but are further abusing the perk by flying their family around in it.... Personally what they should have done was ride coach and then make sure there was plenty of PR on it showing that they are truly trying to be frugel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Personally what they should have done was ride coach and then make sure there was plenty of PR on it showing that they are truly trying to be frugel That is what I meant too! They should have created a PR coup! Didn't they learn from the banks and the scrutiny they (the banks) were under? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Yeah, I'm gonna drop $25 billion on a CEO who makes good use of his travel time by doing confidential work and making his conference calling from the privacy of Southwest coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Yeah, I'm gonna drop $25 billion on a CEO who makes good use of his travel time by doing confidential work and making his conference calling from the privacy of Southwest coach. You could buy all the seats around him/her to be sure that didn't happen. I love the idea that people believe that the CEO is constantly doing work that is top secret, and couldn't for a few hours, be on a plane working on his/her laptop, going through papers, or simply relaxing so they are ready to work when they hit the ground. They run car companies, not secret invasions. What could I find out by eavesdropping on the CEO of a US Auto Maker? What not to do, should I ever run a car company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Yeah, I'm gonna drop $25 billion on a CEO who makes good use of his travel time by doing confidential work and making his conference calling from the privacy of Southwest coach. What a great society we live in if you actually think this... You know what really bugs me? The pretentious AMEX commercials... You know the one with the guy going to SF and he breaks out a cute looking credit card... Then they haul him away while the next guy strolls up with the more "exceptable" gold "business card." Or the commerical with the Germans and Americans on a business lunch... Are people really buying this douchery? You seem to be. It is a phucking piece of plastic linked to an account!... I don't care what it looks like, as long as it clears and someone else pays for the business lunch or flight... More the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 You could buy all the seats around him/her to be sure that didn't happen. I love the idea that people believe that the CEO is constantly doing work that is top secret, and couldn't for a few hours, be on a plane working on his/her laptop, going through papers, or simply relaxing so they are ready to work when they hit the ground. They run car companies, not secret invasions. What could I find out by eavesdropping on the CEO of a US Auto Maker? What not to do, should I ever run a car company? Actually, I bet if you made a list of everything you would do, you would probably have your list of everything you shouldn't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Actually, I bet if you made a list of everything you would do, you would probably have your list of everything you shouldn't do. Pretty much. I don't even need the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Yeah, I'm gonna drop $25 billion on a CEO who makes good use of his travel time by doing confidential work and making his conference calling from the privacy of Southwest coach. WTF are you talking about? It's not like he's flying across the freakin' country. It's a 90 minute trip. He's probably in the air for less than 60 of them. Not to mention, a CEO has driven his company into the ground, is coming on hands and knees begging for money that we are warned will not only save the company and millions of jobs, but somehow help with national security, and with all that at stake, you can somehow justify a 90-minute, $20,000 private jet flight because you expect him to keep working for those 90 minutes? If you really want your CEO working around the clock to justify his money, the smartest thing he could do on that flight is take a nap. But you're probably not going to drop $25B on a CEO who has the audacity to sleep, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts