SageAgainstTheMachine Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/...UnciatkEP7DhUsX The Vikings seem to have hit the panic button and replaced starting QB Tarvaris Jackson with 37 year old veteran Gus Frerotte. Now, don't get me wrong, Jackson has had an awful early career and there are A LOT of QBs I'd start over him, but Frerotte is not one of them. He was simply horrid last year replacing an injured Marc Bulger in St. Louis. In my opinion, if you've got two crappy QBs, might as well stick with the one who's young and has some upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv Levy Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I'd bet Carolina on this game. They looked good against Chicago last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/...UnciatkEP7DhUsX The Vikings seem to have hit the panic button and replaced starting QB Tarvaris Jackson with 37 year old veteran Gus Frerotte. Now, don't get me wrong, Jackson has had an awful early career and there are A LOT of QBs I'd start over him, but Frerotte is not one of them. He was simply horrid last year replacing an injured Marc Bulger in St. Louis. In my opinion, if you've got two crappy QBs, might as well stick with the one who's young and has some upside. I see they are taking a page from the Mike Mularkey Style of Mis-Managing a Young QB book.... Look Tavaris isn't great, but he showed great improvement at the end of last season and this year, they haven't let him throw the ball. When they did open the game he had a good 2nd half against Indy but he couldn't find the end zone. That's not all his fault. It's his play-calling that's hurting him as much if not more than his actual ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I'd bet Carolina on this game. They looked good against Chicago last week. I would stay away from the game. Minny's at home, desperate, and may be energized by the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 What a horrible move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins, Frerotte, etc... It's sort of the trendy thing to do to start the "wise" veteran over the up and coming (yet wildly inconsistent youngster). I don't think it's a bad move. Tarvaris is sort of JP-ish. He looks really good at times, but then he melts down when it comes time to completing a simple 3rd down out or screen pass....or he takes a horrible sack or something. He stinks in the red zone too (as of now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins, Frerotte, etc... It's sort of the trendy thing to do to start the "wise" veteran over the up and coming (yet wildly inconsistent youngster). I don't think it's a bad move. Tarvaris is sort of JP-ish. He looks really good at times, but then he melts down when it comes time to completing a simple 3rd down out or screen pass....or he takes a horrible sack or something. He stinks in the red zone too (as of now). I think the trend is actually to dismiss the future of your franchise one or two seasons too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins, Frerotte, etc... It's sort of the trendy thing to do to start the "wise" veteran over the up and coming (yet wildly inconsistent youngster). I don't think it's a bad move. Tarvaris is sort of JP-ish. He looks really good at times, but then he melts down when it comes time to completing a simple 3rd down out or screen pass....or he takes a horrible sack or something. He stinks in the red zone too (as of now). But Warner and (to a lesser extent) Collins have both proven at some point in their careers that they can be effective. Frerotte has just never been impressive anywhere he went (7 teams in his career). I wouldn't criticize Childress for replacing Tarvaris with Warner or Collins. Frerotte, on the other hand, is just replacing mediocrity with more mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 But Warner and (to a lesser extent) Collins have both proven at some point in their careers that they can be effective. Frerotte has just never been impressive anywhere he went (7 teams in his career). I wouldn't criticize Childress for replacing Tarvaris with Warner or Collins. Frerotte, on the other hand, is just replacing mediocrity with more mediocrity. Yeah, so much like with Chicago a couple of years ago I have to ask why Minnesota did not put more effort into finding a QB who could help them win. They're pissing away a championship caliber defense and running game there with their mishandling of the QB situation. I have a hard time believing these coaches are that confident in guys like Grossman and Jackson to suddenly show something they didn't demonstrate at all in their early careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Yeah, so much like with Chicago a couple of years ago I have to ask why Minnesota did not put more effort into finding a QB who could help them win. They're pissing away a championship caliber defense and running game there with their mishandling of the QB situation. I have a hard time believing these coaches are that confident in guys like Grossman and Jackson to suddenly show something they didn't demonstrate at all in their early careers. Hasn't Chicago had that QB on their roster for several years? Coaches simply refused to play him, though to be fair he was apparently quite the party animal prior to marriage and didn't put in the necessary time etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I see they are taking a page from the Mike Mularkey Style of Mis-Managing a Young QB book.... Look Tavaris isn't great, but he showed great improvement at the end of last season and this year, they haven't let him throw the ball. When they did open the game he had a good 2nd half against Indy but he couldn't find the end zone. That's not all his fault. It's his play-calling that's hurting him as much if not more than his actual ability. We get it, Whenever a young QB struggles, it is always the coaches fault, the playcalling, the offensive line, his supporting cast blah, blah, blah. Have you ever considered that maybe just once in awhile when a young QB struggles it is because he sucks & probably will never be a good QB in this league. Remember when it looks like a turd, feels like a turd & smells like a turd, it is probably a turd & there is no bigger turd in the NFL right now as far as starting QBs go then Tavaris Jackson. That guy is just awfull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 We get it, Whenever a young QB struggles, it is always the coaches fault, the playcalling, the offensive line, his supporting cast blah, blah, blah. Have you ever considered that maybe just once in awhile when a young QB struggles it is because he sucks & probably will never be a good QB in this league. Remember when it looks like a turd, feels like a turd & smells like a turd, it is probably a turd & there is no bigger turd in the NFL right now as far as starting QBs go then Tavaris Jackson. That guy is just awfull. I'm sorry but you're just wrong. That point of view is very narrow minded... look at Drew Brees after the 2003 season... Look at Steve Young... You're telling saying this guy sucks in his first 18 games, but I'm telling you that he shows enough upside and promise that if you stick with him, he's the QB of your future. Guss Ferotte is certainly not. Moving on... did you ever stop to think why they're putting in this veteran? Because Brad Childress is a playoff or bust situation, especially after how the organization treated Tice (I'm not saying that Tice was good, but that the organization paid him the lowest and showed him and Dennis Green no respect). Childress doesn't care about the future, but his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I'm sorry but you're just wrong. That point of view is very narrow minded... look at Drew Brees after the 2003 season... Look at Steve Young... You're telling saying this guy sucks in his first 18 games, but I'm telling you that he shows enough upside and promise that if you stick with him, he's the QB of your future. Guss Ferotte is certainly not. Moving on... did you ever stop to think why they're putting in this veteran? Because Brad Childress is a playoff or bust situation, especially after how the organization treated Tice (I'm not saying that Tice was good, but that the organization paid him the lowest and showed him and Dennis Green no respect). Childress doesn't care about the future, but his job. In the NFL you have to think about the present every single year. There will not be a future for Brad Childress if the Vikes do not start winning soon. Developing a QB for the "future" is always a dicey proposition unless they show signs of being a player from the start. I think TE would fit into that category. But Jackson certainly hasn't shown anything that would lead one to believe that he will ever be a player in this league. That being said, I have no idea why Gus Frerotte is still in the league. But every week I think you play the QB on your roster who gives you the best chance to win. Maybe Frerotte knows the playbook better, or looks better in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I kinda feel for the Vikes b/c of our similar QB situations in the past - but at the same time they have no one to blame but themselves. They built a team of savvy veterans on both sides of the ball. They have the arguably best O and D lines in the game, the best RB, some pretty good LBs, and even some playmakers in their supposedly average or below average secondary - Winfield and Darren Sharper anybody? But when you build a team that can win now (especially with all the money and draft picks they spent on free agents and trades) why do you give the car keys to an unproven second year starter like T. Jackson? Because of potential? Are you kidding me? People could say the bills put Trent Edwards in the same situation - but the teams are completely different. The vikes are an older veteran team (more like the 2003 bills) that need to win NOW. Pat Williams can play at a pro bowl level for no more than a few years, the Jarrod Allen trade is going to leave them lacking with young talent the next few years, Winfield and Sharper are getting old, as is the O LINE. The bills on the other hand are a team built through the draft, and if they don't make the playoffs this year, they have a good shot the next 2-3 years before the window closes up and the next cycle begins. The Vikes are fast closing. While we all want trent to win now, we know its not as important as it is for the bills to win consistently in the future. The vikes screwed up. They should have upgraded in the offseason. Even going after Pennington probably would have made them a playoff team. Or went after a solid backup in the mold of Kerry Collins or Kurt Warner. Now they're stuck with Brooks Bollinger? At least ride out Jackson - don't JP him. Poor Purple Eaters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/...UnciatkEP7DhUsX The Vikings seem to have hit the panic button and replaced starting QB Tarvaris Jackson with 37 year old veteran Gus Frerotte. Now, don't get me wrong, Jackson has had an awful early career and there are A LOT of QBs I'd start over him, but Frerotte is not one of them. He was simply horrid last year replacing an injured Marc Bulger in St. Louis. In my opinion, if you've got two crappy QBs, might as well stick with the one who's young and has some upside. Is Frerotte really better than QBs on the sidelines like Simms and Culpepper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 In the NFL you have to think about the present every single year. There will not be a future for Brad Childress if the Vikes do not start winning soon. Developing a QB for the "future" is always a dicey proposition unless they show signs of being a player from the start. I think TE would fit into that category. But Jackson certainly hasn't shown anything that would lead one to believe that he will ever be a player in this league. That being said, I have no idea why Gus Frerotte is still in the league. But every week I think you play the QB on your roster who gives you the best chance to win. Maybe Frerotte knows the playbook better, or looks better in practice. I'm starting to think that some of you have never even watched Jackson play. He's inconsistent, but saying he "certainly hasn't shown anything" means that you certainly have not watch him play at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I see they are taking a page from the Mike Mularkey Style of Mis-Managing a Young QB book.... Look Tavaris isn't great, but he showed great improvement at the end of last season and this year, they haven't let him throw the ball. When they did open the game he had a good 2nd half against Indy but he couldn't find the end zone. That's not all his fault. It's his play-calling that's hurting him as much if not more than his actual ability. Looking back, Mularkey may have been a lot smarter than we thought. It's not mismanagement when a coach recognizes a guy is a bust & that player is hurting the team's chances of winning games. The Vikings can win more games with Frerotte and to a coach who is not entrenched, that's what matters. Funny thing about bad play-calling. When you have a QB who is a bust, the OC gets a lot of heat. First Gilbride was an idiot when JP couldn't cut it (yet he went on to become the OC of the Super Bowl Champs), then Fairchild was hated in Buffalo. Now Turk Schonert is a genius because JP is on the bench. If the Vikings had Edwards instead of Jackson nobody would be questioning the OC in Minnesota. I hope you were kidding when you bagged on the Vikings OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Is Frerotte really better than QBs on the sidelines like Simms and Culpepper? Simms is on Tennessee. Culpepper announced his retirement because his knee never fully recovered. So yes, Frerotte is their best hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 I'm sorry but you're just wrong. That point of view is very narrow minded... look at Drew Brees after the 2003 season... Look at Steve Young... You're telling saying this guy sucks in his first 18 games, but I'm telling you that he shows enough upside and promise that if you stick with him, he's the QB of your future. Guss Ferotte is certainly not. Moving on... did you ever stop to think why they're putting in this veteran? Because Brad Childress is a playoff or bust situation, especially after how the organization treated Tice (I'm not saying that Tice was good, but that the organization paid him the lowest and showed him and Dennis Green no respect). Childress doesn't care about the future, but his job. I am not wrong. For every Dree Brees or Steve Young I could name you 10 other Qbs that teams should of cut ties with them earlier but they wanted to give them 5 chances to succeed. The Vikings have a championship caliber team imo & are being held back by the QB. Teams do not have the time or the patience nor should they to wait for guys like Jackson to figure it out. It is a win now league. I have not seen Jackson play a ton but I saw him play @ Green Bay this year & on Sunday night with their playoff lives on the line last year against the Redskins. Both times he did not play well & his team was scared to death to put the ball in his hands. Do I think Ferrotte is the answer? Probably not, but he gives the Vikings a better chance to win the jackson IMO & that is all that probably matters to Childress right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 I am not wrong. For every Dree Brees or Steve Young I could name you 10 other Qbs that teams should of cut ties with them earlier but they wanted to give them 5 chances to succeed. The Vikings have a championship caliber team imo & are being held back by the QB. Teams do not have the time or the patience nor should they to wait for guys like Jackson to figure it out. It is a win now league. I have not seen Jackson play a ton but I saw him play @ Green Bay this year & on Sunday night with their playoff lives on the line last year against the Redskins. Both times he did not play well & his team was scared to death to put the ball in his hands. Do I think Ferrotte is the answer? Probably not, but he gives the Vikings a better chance to win the jackson IMO & that is all that probably matters to Childress right now. You're half right. Unfortunately, the law of averages as you pointed out might not be in favor of Jackson, however he deserves his shot, and I've watched maybe 7 or 8 of his pro games and he's shown more than promise, I can recall last season him beating the Giants who went on to do their thing. In that game he was like 80% passing and played a perfect game for their system. They've shied away from that this year and its not his fault, the system should be let AP do his thing, and then throw the ball to a possession receiver. He has the athleticism so accel tremendously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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