Peter Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Pat Tillman's Brother on the Administration Gee, I wonder how the W sycophants are going to explain this? I wonder if they will try to "Cindy Sheehan" Kevin Tillman? As a paleo conservative, I am amazed how the neocons took over this administration and American foreign policy. As a result, the Bush administration squandered the opportunities it had to achieve the traditional conservative agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Pat Tillman's Brother on the Administration Gee, I wonder how the W sycophants are going to explain this? I wonder if they will try to Cindy Sheehan Kevin Tillman? As a paleo conservative, I am amazed how the neocons took over this administration and American foreign policy. As a result, the Bush administration squandered the opportunities it had to achieve the traditional conservative agenda. 811904[/snapback] As someone you'd no doubt consider a "W sycophant", I'll explain it as soon as you tell me why I should give a sh-- what Kevin Tillman or Cindy Sheehan think anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted October 21, 2006 Author Share Posted October 21, 2006 As someone you'd no doubt consider a "W sycophant", I'll explain it as soon as you tell me why I should give a sh-- what Kevin Tillman or Cindy Sheehan think anyway... 811911[/snapback] I guess I feel the same way about your opinion on the subject as you do about Kevin Tillman's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I guess I feel the same way about your opinion on the subject as you do about Kevin Tillman's opinion. 811947[/snapback] Trying...desperately...to...care... People like you, and TPS, and Cindy Sheehan, and Kevin Tillman are the reason this country deserves to be attacked by terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I wonder if they will try to "Cindy Sheehan" Kevin Tillman? Woah woah woah..... There is a HUGE difference between cindy sheehan and Kevin Tillman. I disagree with Kevin Tillman (at least in this writing) alot, but I can respect his opinion due to the way he presents it. He did it in a dignified manner worthy of being heard. Get back to me when Tillman gets forcibly removed from a State of the Union address and tries to block entry to UN offices. Get back to me when he starts praising Hugo Chavez. And let me know when he starts going to foriegn contries and bashes America. I might be more inclined to call him a lunatic at that point. There is a huge difference between sheehan and Tillman at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Why should Kevin Tillman's opinion deserve any more media attention than say............mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Trying...desperately...to...care... People like you, and TPS, and Cindy Sheehan, and Kevin Tillman are the reason this country deserves to be attacked by terrorists. 811964[/snapback] Yeah, because speaking truth to power always deserves to be attacked. You want to push democracy and freedom of speech in Iraq but deny it in the U.S. That makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Yeah, because speaking truth to power always deserves to be attacked. You want to push democracy and freedom of speech in Iraq but deny it in the U.S. That makes sense. 811978[/snapback] Yeah, because that's what I said. My original question was never answered: why should I care what he has to say? Or Cindy Sheehan? The reason our foreign policy is sh-- and we get attacked is because morons like you believe it's more important to idolize victims than it is to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Yeah, because speaking truth to power always deserves to be attacked. You want to push democracy and freedom of speech in Iraq but deny it in the U.S. That makes sense. 811978[/snapback] http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/IraqCoverage/sto...TC-RSSFeeds0312 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=100...=top_world_news Yeah, the problem is you and your ilk, keep putting the Sheehans, the Keven Tillman up as people who lost people in Iraq and don't support Bush. Yet to be fair you don't show the Griffens, or Meyers, or most of the other parents and brothers and sisters, who have lost but still support the mission. Since it doesn't support your or the liberal media's agenda, they get very cursory time to show their side. They just keep showing the lunatic fringe and not the 99% who are pro Bush and still support the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/IraqCoverage/sto...TC-RSSFeeds0312 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=100...=top_world_news Yeah, the problem is you and your ilk, keep putting the Sheehans, the Keven Tillman up as people who lost people in Iraq and don't support Bush. Yet to be fair you don't show the Griffens, or Meyers, or most of the other parents and brothers and sisters, who have lost but still support the mission. Since it doesn't support your or the liberal media's agenda, they get very cursory time to show their side. They just keep showing the lunatic fringe and not the 99% who are pro Bush and still support the cause. 811985[/snapback] Oh and this never works the other way, never ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I wonder if they will try to "Cindy Sheehan" Kevin Tillman? 811904[/snapback] Didn't you get the memo? The 24 hours news cycle has moved on to pedophile congressmen, entrapping internet predators for entertainment, and a washed up elderly singer who wants to crucify herself is trying to adopt Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes of fame have expired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Oh and this never works the other way, never ever. 811993[/snapback] One more for good luck. http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,1331...=topstories.RSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share Posted October 22, 2006 As someone you'd no doubt consider a "W sycophant", I'll explain it as soon as you tell me why I should give a sh-- what Kevin Tillman or Cindy Sheehan think anyway... 811911[/snapback] Some of you guys have short memories. I was using "Cindy Sheehan" as a verb (rather than a noun) similar to "Bork." The reason why I found Kevin Tillman's comments particularly interesting should be apparent. Either some of you are pretending to be dumb or . . . . The Tillman brothers didn't just sit on their respective asses (as most of us did) after 9/11. In fact, Pat gave up a lucrative contract with the Cardinals. They actually risked their lives. Kevin and Pat were presented as heroes and, in fact, are heroes. Not only did they risk their lives, Pat gave his life. In doing so, the Administration came up with a story about his tragic death that was simply not true. After all of the experiences that Kevin had, he came back with a distinctly different view of the administration and what we are doing in Iraq. If someone like that has changed his view of things so dramatically, it may be worth paying attention to rather than simply dismissing what he said as "why should I give a sh--" what he thinks. One of the problems with this administration is that it is so dismissive of any contrary view. As for me, I am a republican. I supported Bush in the 2000 election and was hopeful about this administration. This administration had a lot going for it. It inherited a massive surplus. Republicans were in control of all three branches of government. The entire world was sympathetic to the U.S. Even the former president of Iran (Khatami) condemned the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The Syrians shared intelligence with us regarding Al Qaeda. The British sang the Star Spangled Banner at Buckingham Palace. French newspapers proclaimed that "We are all Americans." We had the opportunity to unite the world in the real fight against terrorism. We had the opportunity to make the sensible tax cuts permanent. We had the opportunity to do something about social security. What did the administration do? It squandered the goodwill we had around the world and the opportunity to achieve the true conservative agenda. The administration was hijacked by the neoconservatives who wanted to attack Iraq and remake the middle east long before 9/11. If you have any doubt about that, you may want to read what two architects of this war (Richard Perle and Doug Feith) wrote prior to 9/11 in a"A Clean Break." I am just sorry that 43 did not surround himself with his father's more able advisers such as Brent Scowcroft and James Baker. In "A World Transformed," George H.W. Bush and Brent Scowcroft prophetically wrote: Trying to eliminate Saddam [in 1991], extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guidelines about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in 'mission creep', and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs... Would have have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, there was no viable 'exit strategy' we could see, violating another of our principles... Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different - and perhaps barren - outcome. It is a shame that W has chosen to allow his administration to be hijacked by the neoconservatives rather than listen to the more realistic wing of the Republican party -- such as his own father. The problem with this administration is not so much that it does not have the support of Nancy Pelosi, it is that it has lost so many dedicated conservatives who are now disaffected. Indeed, the American Conservative magazine did NOT endorse W in 2004. Think about that. How bad can a Republican administration be when when it does not receive the endorsement of the American Conservative magazine?!? Similarly, how bad can a Republican administration be when it loses the support of the Tillman family?!?! Some interesting reading: Scowcroft's August 2002 Wall Street Journal Op-Ed: "Don't Attack Saddam" Brent Scowcroft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthebuilder Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Trying...desperately...to...care... People like you, and TPS, and Cindy Sheehan, and Kevin Tillman are the reason this country deserves to be attacked by terrorists. 811964[/snapback] Are you serious? Why is that? Because the aformentioned people spoke their mind with Freedom of speech???? Kevin Tillman served this country in the armed forces...did you??? You assclown, no one deserves to be attacked by terrorists. You are a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Pat Tillman according to the neocons on this board was a hero. He served with his brother...who risked his life to preserve the right to speak one's mind. His brother GAVE his life for that. Don't anyone here dare swiftboat him - unless you are a chickenshit coward. Oh by the way, the Administration has sent a senior diplomat to fall on his sword for the mess in Iraq. In an interview with Al Jazerra, no less. I am sure not it's no coincidence that two high-ranking military people (as opposed to the chickenshit chickenhawks who got us into this mess) spoke out in the past week against Iraq...and now suddenly the US is willing to admit to "arrogance" and "stupidity". A search of my posts over the past 6 years well reveal that as usual I am ahead of the game, knowing this Administration is both arrogant and stupid. Now they finally admit it. It's on cnn.com. Look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Pat Tillman according to the neocons on this board was a hero. He served with his brother...who risked his life to preserve the right to speak one's mind. His brother GAVE his life for that. Don't anyone here dare swiftboat him - unless you are a chickenshit coward. Oh by the way, the Administration has sent a senior diplomat to fall on his sword for the mess in Iraq. In an interview with Al Jazerra, no less. I am sure not it's no coincidence that two high-ranking military people (as opposed to the chickenshit chickenhawks who got us into this mess) spoke out in the past week against Iraq...and now suddenly the US is willing to admit to "arrogance" and "stupidity". A search of my posts over the past 6 years well reveal that as usual I am ahead of the game, knowing this Administration is both arrogant and stupid. Now they finally admit it. It's on cnn.com. Look it up. 812047[/snapback] Your smug emissions exceed EPA limits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Your smug emissions exceed EPA limits 812049[/snapback] I hear they might force her to move to San Fransisco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 After all of the experiences that Kevin had, he came back with a distinctly different view of the administration and what we are doing in Iraq. If someone like that has changed his view of things so dramatically, it may be worth paying attention to rather than simply dismissing what he said as "why should I give a sh--" what he thinks. 812029[/snapback] CTM/BJ can continue to say this stems from "victimhood." But I don't think KT considers himself a "victim." He and Pat knew full well what it meant when they signed their names and that what happened cannot be changed. The point is the litany of things this admin has done in a piece-by-piece powergrab that threaten our civil rights. It's not unlike as the Declaration states: "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, invariably pursuing the same object, evinces a design to reduce then under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." We all can make these statements from our living rooms about our Iraq theories --- 'If we do X, they'll do Y' like this is all some kind of science experiment --- and calling this one an idiot, that one an idiot, everyone but the guy in the mirror an idiot.... All of this talk doesn't mean Jack sh--. Many people who physically go to Iraq come back with a changed attitude of the purpose and outlook of this war. I prefer to listen to people who've actually experienced it to the crap-throwing monkeys who verbally masturbate into their keyboards as if they know what they're talking about b/c they read Jane's. This admin walked into Pottery Barn and broke the $600 serving platter. In a better world, the people who work in Pottery Barn would let us sweep it up and pay for the platter. What's happening, tho, is we're getting charged for everything in the store, and the employees are pelting us with salad bowls and stabbing us with forks and serviettes, while doing the same to each other. At what point do we say '!@#$ it!' and leave the building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 QUOTE(Bungee Jumper @ Oct 21 2006, 05:06 PM)Trying...desperately...to...care... People like you, and TPS, and Cindy Sheehan, and Kevin Tillman are the reason this country deserves to be attacked by terrorists. Are you serious? Why is that? Because the aformentioned people spoke their mind with Freedom of speech???? Kevin Tillman served this country in the armed forces...did you???You assclown, no one deserves to be attacked by terrorists. You are a dick. 812038[/snapback] My sentiments exactly Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Are you serious? Why is that? Because the aformentioned people spoke their mind with Freedom of speech???? Kevin Tillman served this country in the armed forces...did you??? I didn't say they couldn't speak their mind. I just suggested that being martyrs doesn't give them any insight. You assclown, no one deserves to be attacked by terrorists. 812038[/snapback] Just America. Unquestionably we deserve it, and I will celebrate the next attack, presuming I survive it. Feel free to report me as an enemy combattant, if it makes you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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