cåblelady Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 do I need to wear a helmet to participate in this thread... 805699[/snapback] yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 do I need to wear a helmet to participate in this thread... 805699[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterhill Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 805701[/snapback] ok I will be back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Also, perhaps its because several of the top rushers have had their buys; hence, they've played one less game. 805698[/snapback] Buys? Those running backs got hit with sir charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 ok I will be back... 805704[/snapback] Why, is yours the wrong color with no chin strap?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Risin would you agree that lack of awareness in the pocket and indecision would have taken away from your O-lines performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Risin would you agree that lack of awareness in the pocket and indecision would have taken away from your O-lines performance. 805711[/snapback] I'm not Risin, but I say the reverse is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Risin would you agree that lack of awareness in the pocket and indecision would have taken away from your O-lines performance. 805711[/snapback] What pocket are we talkin about? I can hardly recall a pocket. JP drops back and has 2 choices - immediately throw or run. He has about 2 seconds to make that decision before someone is on him. This is pretty much 90% of our pas attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Come on now 90%, that's reaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Come on now 90%, that's reaching 805723[/snapback] Sure it is, but I really don't have time (or the inclination) to watch the game and count it all up. But, I'm sure its a greater majority than times when there's a true pocket for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterhill Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Why, is yours the wrong color with no chin strap?? 805710[/snapback] had to hook up the mouthpiece.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Risin would you agree that lack of awareness in the pocket and indecision would have taken away from your O-lines performance. 805711[/snapback] I didn't have a great sense of "feeling" the rush if it came in quick, I relied on that internal clock, that said get rid of the ball. I've always felt that only the great QB's have that "sense", and I was far from great. In fact I think average would about sum up my career. (and I'm biased, haha) I don't envy JP at all, I usually had way more time to pass, and never got the decent results he has gotten. That is why I'm so quick to protect him, I can't imagine getting hit after just hitting my 5th step in the drop. (when I was blindsided that quickly, I did tend to fumble) Sure, poor pocket awareness and indecision will take away from your oline's performance, but there are a lot of cases where poor pass protection are the problem, and not JP's indecision. (believe me though, he is guilty a bunch of indecision, I think his pocket awareness is better then Drew's though) I'm not down on JP for his lack of awareness, as much as I am on his inability to complete the deep pass, when his line gives him adequate protection. I'm hoping with time he'll get it, but he needs to keep showing improvement. I was very disappointed with that sack right before the half, that was on him big time, and he still makes too many of them mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 But isn't that what makes the great QB's great is their ability to be able to make plays and improvise when the offensive lines protection has broken down?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 But isn't that what makes the great QB's great is their ability to be able to make plays and improvise when the offensive lines protection has broken down?? 805747[/snapback] JP does that at times, but that doesn't make a QB great. (TD to Roscoe today comes to mind) Flutie did that all the time, and was far from great. There are tons of ways for QB's to be considered great. Some great QB's didn't have the ability to make the plays you speak of, but excel in other areas. There is no concrete formula to be considered a great QB, other then to be a big reason for your team winning games. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are great QB's, but with totally different skill sets. I don't think JP will ever be considered great, but he has the physical tools to be pretty darn good, if his mental talent ever catches up with his physical ability. I guarentee you, most QB's (even the great ones) would give their left nut to have JP's physical attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 THe most important attribute is winning and he aint getting it done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 THe most important attribute is winning and he aint getting it done 805756[/snapback] His team isn't helping either. There is a fine line. Marv and company are the "experts", I have faith they'll know when to pull the plug if/when it needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 do I need to wear a helmet to participate in this thread... 805699[/snapback] stealing a line from aj, you are going to also need an industrial size bottle of windex with the amount of windowlicking in this thread. Hopefully the titanic in this thread follows the same fate as the previous titanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 THe most important attribute is winning and he aint getting it done 805756[/snapback] So cut the entire team then, they ain getting it done. Lets compare QB performances today: Losman 21/34, 207 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 1 FUM E.Manning 17/30, 180 Yards, 2 TD, 2 INT, 1 FUM One quarterback beats 3-1 Atlanta 27-14, the other quarterback loses 20-17 to 0-5 Detroit. So what's the difference? As it turns out, and this is apparently surprising to a lot of you, when the rest of the team plays like crap, an average quarterbacking performance is going to look like crap as well. When the rest of the team plays alright, an average quarterbacking performance looks pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Oh God, I'm done, good night fellas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I couldn't see the game, but based on what those who DID see it are saying, the line was horrible, particularly Gandy....we need a line that is appropriately tough considering the fact that we are a cold weather team. 805607[/snapback] Since you didn't watch that game, I'll tell you about how I felt Losman played. I'll do my best to be unbiased . . . Positives: - Losman had a great pass to Roscoe Parrish. Detroit defenders came in from Losman's left, so he rolled out to his right. It looked like he might try running for a first down, but instead threw a nice long bomb to Parrish for a TD. - The other TD drive. That drive had a lot more to do with the Bills' passing game than with the running game. Losman clearly played well on that drive. I was a little distracted by the other people in the room, but it looked like the offense had been simplified, and that Losman was quickly throwing to his first or (at most) second read. - There were a few times when Losman used his athletic ability to scramble for some tough yards. If you just see the stats on the play by play, you won't realize how much speed was required to get those yards. Negatives: - Other than the above, Losman was generally ineffective. To get the feel of what this game was like, I'll mention a play which I consider representative. It was third and less than ten, and I think the Bills were in their own territory. Losman attempted a pass to a player who was several yards short of the first down marker. There was a defender right there, whose quick hit on the Bills player prevented a completion. But even had that pass been completed, that Bills player would almost certainly have been tackled shy of the first down marker. - For the most part, Losman was standard-issue ineffective. But there were a few plays which were worse than this. I remember one play where Losman threw a very short pass to McGahee in the flat. The pass should have been aimed at McGahee's stomach or his chest. Instead, McGahee had to extend himself vertically to catch that pass, which allowed a defender to absolutely destroy him. McGahee needed help to get off the field, but was later able to return. On the very next play, Losman threw a bad interception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Like everyone else, I'm just so sick of hearing about how bad the Oline is....we need to just fix the damn thing once and for all...enough of this crap! 805618[/snapback] Maybe it's time to look at the Oline coach.....I know he has a great rep and all but damn, this guy hasn't put together a group that can block for the pee wee team. How can teams like say denver, always have small OL, but always seem to play well?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So cut the entire team then, they ain getting it done. Lets compare QB performances today: Losman 21/34, 207 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 1 FUM E.Manning 17/30, 180 Yards, 2 TD, 2 INT, 1 FUM One quarterback beats 3-1 Atlanta 27-14, the other quarterback loses 20-17 to 0-5 Detroit. So what's the difference? As it turns out, and this is apparently surprising to a lot of you, when the rest of the team plays like crap, an average quarterbacking performance is going to look like crap as well. When the rest of the team plays alright, an average quarterbacking performance looks pretty good. 805763[/snapback] Well said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Maybe it's time to look at the Oline coach.....I know he has a great rep and all but damn, this guy hasn't put together a group that can block for the pee wee team. How can teams like say denver, always have small OL, but always seem to play well?? 805817[/snapback] And oddly enough, that same Oline coach that did wonders in Denver is now here in Atlanta....and Atlanta is running roughshod over the rest of the league. So you may have a point there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Since you didn't watch that game, I'll tell you about how I felt Losman played. I'll do my best to be unbiased . . . Yeah, but JP was a TD draft pick....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hopefully the titanic in this thread follows the same fate as the previous titanic. 805760[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 had to hook up the mouthpiece.. 805738[/snapback] This is creating quite the mental (no pun intended) image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So cut the entire team then, they ain getting it done. Marv took over 40% of that advice in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Maybe it's time to look at the Oline coach.....I know he has a great rep and all but damn, this guy hasn't put together a group that can block for the pee wee team. How can teams like say denver, always have small OL, but always seem to play well?? 805817[/snapback] I've heard enough about McNally for the rest of my life. Buffalo has not had a good O-line in 6 years. Try something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I've heard enough about McNally for the rest of my life. Buffalo has not had a good O-line in 6 years. Try something new. 806017[/snapback] We had a good OL in 2000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So cut the entire team then, they ain getting it done. Lets compare QB performances today: Losman 21/34, 207 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 1 FUM E.Manning 17/30, 180 Yards, 2 TD, 2 INT, 1 FUM One quarterback beats 3-1 Atlanta 27-14, the other quarterback loses 20-17 to 0-5 Detroit. So what's the difference? As it turns out, and this is apparently surprising to a lot of you, when the rest of the team plays like crap, an average quarterbacking performance is going to look like crap as well. When the rest of the team plays alright, an average quarterbacking performance looks pretty good. Well said... 805852[/snapback] Eli won though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Eli won though. 806211[/snapback] Actually the Giants won which was exactly the point of the first post you quoted. People keep getting pissed off at the QB play because they want a QB that can make up for the deficiencies of the entire team. The problem with that is there are only a few of those guys per generation. It's easier to improve the entire team than it is to get lucky and find one of those all time great QBs. Instead of dumping our QB every 2-3 years it would be nice if the front office would get off their asses and improve the OL. Losman was bad yesterday, even when he had time but if the OL would actually give him some protection the team still had a chance to win. Expecting the QB to drop back and do it all himself is expecting us to have a HoF QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So cut the entire team then, they ain getting it done. Lets compare QB performances today: Losman 21/34, 207 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 1 FUM E.Manning 17/30, 180 Yards, 2 TD, 2 INT, 1 FUM One quarterback beats 3-1 Atlanta 27-14, the other quarterback loses 20-17 to 0-5 Detroit. So what's the difference? As it turns out, and this is apparently surprising to a lot of you, when the rest of the team plays like crap, an average quarterbacking performance is going to look like crap as well. When the rest of the team plays alright, an average quarterbacking performance looks pretty good. Eli won though. 806211[/snapback] shhhhh! leave logic out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So cut the entire team then, they ain getting it done. Lets compare QB performances today: Losman 21/34, 207 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 1 FUM E.Manning 17/30, 180 Yards, 2 TD, 2 INT, 1 FUM One quarterback beats 3-1 Atlanta 27-14, the other quarterback loses 20-17 to 0-5 Detroit. So what's the difference? As it turns out, and this is apparently surprising to a lot of you, when the rest of the team plays like crap, an average quarterbacking performance is going to look like crap as well. When the rest of the team plays alright, an average quarterbacking performance looks pretty good. 805763[/snapback] Very good post!! Football is a team game and right now its the team not getting it done. I for one am through with the McNally experiment. We haven't had an Oline in over ten years and the past several with McNally have not gotten any better. Thats one area of coaching that needs a change come this off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So cut the entire team then, they ain getting it done. Lets compare QB performances today: Losman 21/34, 207 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 1 FUM E.Manning 17/30, 180 Yards, 2 TD, 2 INT, 1 FUM One quarterback beats 3-1 Atlanta 27-14, the other quarterback loses 20-17 to 0-5 Detroit. So what's the difference? As it turns out, and this is apparently surprising to a lot of you, when the rest of the team plays like crap, an average quarterbacking performance is going to look like crap as well. When the rest of the team plays alright, an average quarterbacking performance looks pretty good. 805763[/snapback] Looking at Manning's numbers a bit closer makes your point even further. Of Manning's 17/30, 180 yards, he had 6 completions to Shockey, for 55 yards and 2 TDs, and 3 completions to Barber for 44 yards. So better than half of his completions and yardage went to guys who you could argue are in the top five (or better) at their respective positions. Barber also rushed for 185 freaking yards. So the person's follow-up argument to your post stating that the numbers between Eli and JP are comparable but Eli won, is foolish. I have no doubt that if the two QBs were switched the outcome would have been the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Looking at Manning's numbers a bit closer makes your point even further. Of Manning's 17/30, 180 yards, he had 6 completions to Shockey, for 55 yards and 2 TDs, and 3 completions to Barber for 44 yards. So better than half of his completions and yardage went to guys who you could argue are in the top five (or better) at their respective positions. Barber also rushed for 185 freaking yards. So the person's follow-up argument to your post stating that the numbers between Eli and JP are comparable but Eli won, is foolish. I have no doubt that if the two QBs were switched the outcome would have been the same. 806312[/snapback] Agreed. Losman could be playing better but he's the starter and should be. The line sucks. The RB is questionable. The WRs are not that great. There's no TE. Let's keep starting him. As the team improves around him, he'll get better. For next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 And oddly enough, that same Oline coach that did wonders in Denver is now here in Atlanta....and Atlanta is running roughshod over the rest of the league. So you may have a point there. 805860[/snapback] Mmm, can we borrow him for a few years ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 With the 10th pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Bills select [bETTER BE AN OFFENSIVE LINEMAN!!!]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Eli won, though. 806211[/snapback] THE GIANTS won you idiot. Their Defense didn't give up 500 yards+ to an 0-5 team. You people are all missing chromosomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 THE GIANTS won you idiot. Their Defense didn't give up 500 yards+ to an 0-5 team. You people are all missing chromosomes. 806395[/snapback] I'm not going to try to count the chromosomes of other posters, but you do bring up a good point about football being a team game. A quarterback should be evaluated based on his own performance, and not on the quality of his supporting cast. Take Trent Dilfer back in 2000. Great team, mediocre QB, great W/L record. Or take John Elway for most of his career: elite QB, substandard team, and lots of 8-8 and 9-7 seasons. Few would accuse me of seeing Losman through rose colored glasses, but it's a mistake to put all or even most of the blame for the loss on him. At the same time, I do feel he could have played a lot better, even given the circumstances with which he was faced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 With the 10th pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Bills select [bETTER BE AN OFFENSIVE LINEMAN!!!]. 806376[/snapback] Probably Mike Williams JR.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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