Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 We will try and run Jauron out of town. It's not a prediction, it's a guarantee. When bad things happen here we blame the QB and the head coach. Justified or not, this team will not turn the corner until we get longevity in both areas. Just look at Dallas and the Patriots. If Parcells AND Belichick can't win with Drew then how could we? These are two of the all time greats, who arguably have even more to work with then the Bills did. When things went south we not only rode our QB out of town, but our coaches to. Now we need to change systems, and enter "rebuilding". Just the type of recycled strategy that's led us to one of the worst records in football the last 5 years. What exactly is Jauron up against? I'll show you. Since the year 2000, 72 teams have made the playoffs. Out of those teams 45 have posted a TD/INT ratio of 1.5 or higher, or 63%. Out of the other 37% or 27 teams that made it only 4 or 15% went onto the playoffs the following year with a TD/INT ratio of 1.5 or lower again. Those team's all had elite defenses. Among them are 2000/2001 Ravens, 2000/2001 Buccaneers, 2000/2001 Dolphins, and 2001/2002 Steelers. ZERO teams achieved this feat a 3rd time in a row. The point of all this is simple. The great coaches that sustain success also have QB's who throw a lot of TD's and a small amount of INT's. The last time Buffalo had a QB with a 1.5 TD/INT ratio or higher was 2003. Drew did it once, and never could repeat that success again. Before that, Flutie. If JP doesn't turn into who we want him to be, and we don't find someone that can, it's almost certain Jauron will be run out of town. This despite that fact that no coach in the last 6 seasons has been able to sustain a playoff team without a QB that throws for a 1.5 ratio or higher. This season Jauron not only will have to deal with that, but also has to deal with a completely new team, and system. When we win, we should be thankful, when we lose we should look to grow from it. You point the finger at Jauron when we have a QB that can get it done, and were still losing. To do it before then would make us the same recycled team we've had. Just give Dick a chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I love coach Juaron, I think he will do wonders for this team once they grasp his system and style of play. Remember he dont have his type players in their yet, give him some time! You know with a play here and there this team is 4-1......thats how I look at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Everyone has bone head plays and off days, coaches included. What isn't disputed is that the team has a different look and belief to it this year. I've seen many more things I like as opposed to dislike thus far with Jauron so I'll put off calling for his head for a few more weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 If Parcells AND Belichick can't win with Drew then how could we? The Bills went 9-7 with Bledsoe at QB in the toughest division in football during Mularkey's rookie year. And he's a meathead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterhill Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Just give Dick a chance! 799813[/snapback] exactly what I said to the Lesbians sitting in front of us week 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 The Bills went 9-7 with Bledsoe at QB in the toughest division in football during Mularkey's rookie year.And he's a meathead! 799842[/snapback] I wouldn't call 9-7 and missing the playoffs winning with Bledsoe, that's called mediocre. He did well against a bunch of grocery baggers the last half of the season to salvage that record. To this very day he keeps proving himself as incapable of using the resources he's given. [/thread highjack] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I still don't like the "go for it" in NE. Otherwise I have no problem with the coaching thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 nonsense. The last two coaches deserved to be run out of town for taking clear playoff caliber talent and running the team into the ground through god awful personnel decisions and bad coaching. Jauron has made some darn good decisions and we are 2-3 with a team that many considered one of the two or three worst in the league, and I suspect they will go into the bye with a 3-4 or 4-3 and that's pretty darn good. Nobody is going to run DJ out of town. Was this game against Chicago bad? yup...badly coached yup (but overshadowing bad coaching in this game was bad playing.) that happens. Get up..dust yourself off...get ready for the next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I think the majority of fans are willing to give Jauron a fair chance, and that means years. You could tell the difference in the feel of this team from the first game of the season. That starts from the GM on down. You have to give credit to Marv for beginning to change the losing attitude of this team which have been a bunch of losers for 7 years now. Once they start winning games regularly a winning attitude will set in which will help in those tight, close games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 <hijack> To this very day he keeps proving himself as incapable of using the resources he's given. Yeah except for the fact that in 2 of his 3 years as an O-coordinator his teams finished in the Top5 of NFL offenses. But he's obviously incapable of using the resources he's given. As for his current situation, nobody on this planet could succeed with resources like Bennie Anderson, Jeno James and LJ Shelton. </hijack> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 The last two coaches deserved to be run out of town for taking clear playoff caliber talent and running the team into the ground through god awful personnel decisions and bad coaching we are 2-3 with a team that many considered one of the two or three worst in the league So we were considered one of the worst teams in the league yet still had clear playoff caliber talent?-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 The Bills went 9-7 with Bledsoe at QB in the toughest division in football during Mularkey's rookie year.And he's a meathead! 799842[/snapback] Which is exactly my point. If you look at it year to year it's unlikely your team will go to the playoffs unless your QB throws 1 1/2 TD's for every INT. We almost made it in 04 despite not reaching that level. The fall from grace the following year is pretty much the exact same thing every other team experiences. I like Jauron more then Mularkey, but Mularkey got rode out of town because he couldn't accomplish something very few head coaches have over the last 6 seasons. Who's to say JP won't continue to struggle with the TD/INT ratio, like this whole team has the last decade. I'm pulling to stick with him for consistencies sake, but the odds are still against him, which means that odds are still against Jauron surviving. Jauron will not survive if JP doesn't. That is unless Marv bucks this trend. Just wait, if Greggo gets his chance again and has a QB, I bet we will regret the day we let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Mularkey got run out of town because he completely lost his team in only his second year and the team quit on him, period. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Who is calling for Juaron's head? Personally, I'm not shocked or disappointed by the loss. The Bears are head and shoulders better than any team in the league right now. I expected the Bills to get destroyed, and they did. I think they learned though, and they'll be better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 nonsense. The last two coaches deserved to be run out of town for taking clear playoff caliber talent and running the team into the ground through god awful personnel decisions and bad coaching. 799860[/snapback] Whether or not they deserved to be run out of town remains to be seen. As the stats clearly indicate you don't experience consistent success in the NFL without good QB play. If you do, the overwhelming majority of teams have lost it the following season. The coaches we ran out of town had a QB that neither Bill Parcells or Belichick have done crap with. Both are Super Bowl winning coaches, and both have had superior talent then the Bledose led Bills teams Mularkey and Williams had. The only person that would tell you otherwise is TD before the start of each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 <hijack> Yeah except for the fact that in 2 of his 3 years as an O-coordinator his teams finished in the Top5 of NFL offenses. 799866[/snapback] And once upon a time, Jim Kelly went to 4 superbowls. That doesn't mean he's relevant in today's NFL. Whatever Mularkey had in Pittsburgh is long gone now. The league has passed him by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 We will try and run Jauron out of town. It's not a prediction, it's a guarantee. When bad things happen here we blame the QB and the head coach. Justified or not, this team will not turn the corner until we get longevity in both areas. Just look at Dallas and the Patriots. If Parcells AND Belichick can't win with Drew then how could we? These are two of the all time greats, who arguably have even more to work with then the Bills did. When things went south we not only rode our QB out of town, but our coaches to. Now we need to change systems, and enter "rebuilding". Just the type of recycled strategy that's led us to one of the worst records in football the last 5 years. What exactly is Jauron up against? I'll show you. Since the year 2000, 72 teams have made the playoffs. Out of those teams 45 have posted a TD/INT ratio of 1.5 or higher, or 63%. Out of the other 37% or 27 teams that made it only 4 or 15% went onto the playoffs the following year with a TD/INT ratio of 1.5 or lower again. Those team's all had elite defenses. Among them are 2000/2001 Ravens, 2000/2001 Buccaneers, 2000/2001 Dolphins, and 2001/2002 Steelers. ZERO teams achieved this feat a 3rd time in a row. The point of all this is simple. The great coaches that sustain success also have QB's who throw a lot of TD's and a small amount of INT's. The last time Buffalo had a QB with a 1.5 TD/INT ratio or higher was 2003. Drew did it once, and never could repeat that success again. Before that, Flutie. If JP doesn't turn into who we want him to be, and we don't find someone that can, it's almost certain Jauron will be run out of town. This despite that fact that no coach in the last 6 seasons has been able to sustain a playoff team without a QB that throws for a 1.5 ratio or higher. This season Jauron not only will have to deal with that, but also has to deal with a completely new team, and system. When we win, we should be thankful, when we lose we should look to grow from it. You point the finger at Jauron when we have a QB that can get it done, and were still losing. To do it before then would make us the same recycled team we've had. Just give Dick a chance! 799813[/snapback] Thats funny, I say the same thing to hot lesbian chicks, wierd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 exactly what I said to the Lesbians sitting in front of us week 3... 799843[/snapback] Nice, you beat me to it. I posted it right after I read the first post. Didnt bother to read all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 <hijack> Yeah except for the fact that in 2 of his 3 years as an O-coordinator his teams finished in the Top5 of NFL offenses. But he's obviously incapable of using the resources he's given. As for his current situation, nobody on this planet could succeed with resources like Bennie Anderson, Jeno James and LJ Shelton. </hijack> 799866[/snapback] Yes, I understand that through his gadgetry he got the steelers into the top 5 four years ago. After he left and they returned to what they do best they won the Superbowl. Now in the last 3 years he has: 1) Alienated his team 2) Had in-fighting on his staff 3) Piloted some of the most dis-jointed offenses in the league 4) Completely mis-managed a QB situation 5) Under-utilized two upper echelon RB's As for his current situation, having a good RB, good defense, good tight end, and a top flight receiver not to mention a former pro-bowl QB,the offense should at least show signs of competency against bad teams. PS nothing screams "I know how to use my team" like having a rookie wide reciever with a cast on throwing a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 And once upon a time, Jim Kelly went to 4 superbowls. That doesn't mean he's relevant in today's NFL. Whatever Mularkey had in Pittsburgh is long gone now. The league has passed him by. 799878[/snapback] Uncoincidentally Marv Levy is considered a great HC. I defy people to come up with examples of HC's that had success for an extended period of time without a great QB. I could come up with 100's of examples of great HC's with great QB's. The relationship isn't independent for some of those names, but for many it is. Still we expected/expect Gregg, Mularkey, or Jauron to right the ship no matter what happens at QB. Not how it works folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodnarb Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Jauron is not an exciting guy but he's a very good coach. There's a reason that he's one of the most universally respected coaches in the league, by players and coaches alike. I think he's doing well so far and it would be a shame if the media and call in cranks were to start piling on this early in his tenure. He's still basically coaching with players brought in to play in GW's 46 hybrid system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Uncoincidentally Marv Levy is considered a great HC. I defy people to come up with examples of HC's that had success for an extended period of time without a great QB. I could come up with 100's of examples of great HC's with great QB's. The relationship isn't independent for some of those names, but for many it is. Still we expected/expect Gregg, Mularkey, or Jauron to right the ship no matter what happens at QB. Not how it works folks. 799891[/snapback] Who was at quarterback when Mularkey had those two top 5 offenses that Simon was referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 <hijack> Yeah except for the fact that in 2 of his 3 years as an O-coordinator his teams finished in the Top5 of NFL offenses. But he's obviously incapable of using the resources he's given. As for his current situation, nobody on this planet could succeed with resources like Bennie Anderson, Jeno James and LJ Shelton. </hijack> 799866[/snapback] That the same Jeno James who started in a Super Bowl a couple of years back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 And once upon a time, Jim Kelly went to 4 superbowls. That doesn't mean he's relevant in today's NFL. Whatever Mularkey had in Pittsburgh is long gone now. The league has passed him by. 799878[/snapback] What Mularkey had in Pittsburgh was a team that is strong in the trenches. This is why they won football games. The Bills have a team that is weak in the trenches. This is why we lose football games. Anderson was almost killed by a washed up Ruben Brown on one play, and was disgraceful on most others. He is backed up by a rookie. Gandy is made a fool of all too often. Our washed up RG was replaced by a nobody. Reyes, another castoff, looks like he weighs 250, yet he is a major improvement on what was here last season. Nice, huh? We might have the highest paid secondary in the NFL, or close to it, and 2 of them are rookies. This game meant little imo. Our odds of winning were slim. The long term philosophy of this team is what matters, and it is stupid, and it has been for many years. Is Mularkey a lousy coach? Probably so, and even HE could win games with strong lines. It is not a question of being "passed by." It is about how to build a winning football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Who was at quarterback when Mularkey had those two top 5 offenses that Simon was referring to? 799896[/snapback] Kordella but Mularkey was the OC, not the HC. This topic, and my comments only refer to HC's and QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Kordella but Mularkey was the OC, not the HC. This topic, and my comments only refer to HC's and QB's. 799905[/snapback] Okay, so it was Bill Cowher having top 5 offenses with Kordell Stewart at quarterback. It can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgun Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Thats funny, I say the same thing to hot lesbian chicks, wierd. 799880[/snapback] Yes, this is our first "real' coach since Marv. We will get better with him and the new coordinators that he has brought in. I am only upset with Fairchild aborting the running game so early. I know it was tough against their front seven, but we still didn't run enough early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Okay, so it was Bill Cowher having top 5 offenses with Kordell Stewart at quarterback. It can be done. 799911[/snapback] So we should hold Jauron and the Bills to this one example, and not the 100's of ones that contradict it? The truth is without a decent QB no coach in the NFL will get a fair shake. The ones that have QB's get way to much credit, and the ones that don't get way to much blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 we're already 5 weeks into the season and Jauron still hasn't won a Super Bowl time to start over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 So we should hold Jauron and the Bills to this one example, and not the 100's of ones that contradict it? The truth is without a decent QB no coach in the NFL will get a fair shake. The ones that have QB's get way to much credit, and the ones that don't get way to much blame. 799917[/snapback] Its a good point, and I agree with you. But if the whole team is imploding and everything is a disaster, we've got a bad D and little running game after 3-4 years, you've got to re-evaluate Jauron no matter who the quarterback is. But if the team is giving effort and playing well, but JP (or whoever) isn't getting it done and it looks like we're a quarterback away from contending, then he gets a pass for not winning in his first few years. In which case we go out and find him a QB who can win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 The last time Buffalo had a QB with a 1.5 TD/INT ratio or higher was 2003. Drew did it once, and never could repeat that success again. 799813[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Yeah except for the fact that in 2 of his 3 years as an O-coordinator his teams finished in the Top5 of NFL offenses. But he's obviously incapable of using the resources he's given. 799866[/snapback] Anyone else wanna field this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Whether or not they deserved to be run out of town remains to be seen. As the stats clearly indicate you don't experience consistent success in the NFL without good QB play. If you do, the overwhelming majority of teams have lost it the following season. The coaches we ran out of town had a QB that neither Bill Parcells or Belichick have done crap with. Both are Super Bowl winning coaches, and both have had superior talent then the Bledose led Bills teams Mularkey and Williams had. The only person that would tell you otherwise is TD before the start of each year. 799877[/snapback] Mybe I'm missing something but Bill Parcells went to the Superbowl with Drew Bledsoe and Belechick went twice to the playoffs with him. Parcells went 9-7 with him last year, and may do pretty well with him this year. In my opinion, for what its worth Bledsoe gave us the 9-7 season (making the pro bowl for the fourth time.) and would have done a hell of a lot better but for god-awful coaching...see Ruben Brown's comments before the Chicago game and listen to what most Buffalo Bills players have said about Gilbride, Williams, Mularkey and the various coaching folks we've had. Losman may be a good quarterback. Lombardi didn't have an impressive quarterback in Bart Starr by any means when he arrived at Green Bay..but did pretty well with the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Its a good point, and I agree with you. But if the whole team is imploding and everything is a disaster, we've got a bad D and little running game after 3-4 years, you've got to re-evaluate Jauron no matter who the quarterback is. But if the team is giving effort and playing well, but JP (or whoever) isn't getting it done and it looks like we're a quarterback away from contending, then he gets a pass for not winning in his first few years. In which case we go out and find him a QB who can win. 799922[/snapback] I agree. I just hope we take a more patient approach this time around. That's not to say Mularkey or Williams were good here. I haven't made any comments saying as much. But I do know they had a very small chance at be successful long term with our QB play. Looking at the odds of a QB making it, JP is more likely to fail then succeed. We need to keep him in for consistency's sake, and the hope that he can put it together. But he fails then what? Are Bills fans patient enough to wait and see on another QB? At this point were at year 3 with Jauron, and need more time for a QB to develop. Jauron wouldn't survive. We will hire a new staff, and once again enter rebuilding. It's a sick cycle that's killed any chance of consistency the last 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Mybe I'm missing something but Bill Parcells went to the Superbowl with Drew Bledsoe and Belechick went twice to the playoffs with him. Parcells went 9-7 with him last year, and may do pretty well with him this year. In my opinion, for what its worth Bledsoe gave us the 9-7 season (making the pro bowl for the fourth time.) and would have done a hell of a lot better but for god-awful coaching...see Ruben Brown's comments before the Chicago game and listen to what most Buffalo Bills players have said about Gilbride, Williams, Mularkey and the various coaching folks we've had. Losman may be a good quarterback. Lombardi didn't have an impressive quarterback in Bart Starr by any means when he arrived at Green Bay..but did pretty well with the guy. 799939[/snapback] The same Bledsoe that played in Buffalo, and now Dallas after years of being destroyed? He was a diffrent player then. As for Lomabrdi you just mentioned the greatest coach in football history. I would hope if anybody could win without a great QB it would be him. Then again Starr is in the Hall, along with about 10 other players from the 60's Packers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Anyone else wanna field this one? 799931[/snapback] I believe it's your turn... just make sure to use dial soap when you're done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Mybe I'm missing something but Bill Parcells went to the Superbowl with Drew Bledsoe and Belechick went twice to the playoffs with him. Parcells went 9-7 with him last year, and may do pretty well with him this year. In my opinion, for what its worth Bledsoe gave us the 9-7 season (making the pro bowl for the fourth time.) and would have done a hell of a lot better but for god-awful coaching...see Ruben Brown's comments before the Chicago game and listen to what most Buffalo Bills players have said about Gilbride, Williams, Mularkey and the various coaching folks we've had. Losman may be a good quarterback. Lombardi didn't have an impressive quarterback in Bart Starr by any means when he arrived at Green Bay..but did pretty well with the guy. 799939[/snapback] Bledsoe had a terrific regular season in '94 without much of a running game or defense, and was shut down by Bellicheck & Cleveland in a wildcard game. '95 was a disppointing 6-10. '96 was a nice bounceback year, though if you look at the playoff games vs. Pittsburgh & Jacksonville, Martin & the defense carried the team. That carried over into '97 when they beat Miami in a no-offense wildcard game and lost to Kordell & Pittsburgh 7-6 in the 2nd round. '98 the refs gave them a wildcard spot and he was injured before wildcard loss in Jacksonville. '99 & 2000 he stunk and never went to the playoffs with Bellicheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 So we should hold Jauron and the Bills to this one example, and not the 100's of ones that contradict it? The truth is without a decent QB no coach in the NFL will get a fair shake. The ones that have QB's get way to much credit, and the ones that don't get way to much blame. 799917[/snapback] So you're scapegoating the QB instead of the HC. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 The same Bledsoe that played in Buffalo, and now Dallas after years of being destroyed? He was a diffrent player then. As for Lomabrdi you just mentioned the greatest coach in football history. I would hope if anybody could win without a great QB it would be him. Then again Starr is in the Hall, along with about 10 other players from the 60's Packers. 799944[/snapback] Right...but nobody thought Starr was a quality quarterback when Lombardi was "stuck" with him when he came to Green Bay. As to Bledsoe...he made the pro bowl and just about made the playoffs last year after being "destroyed". The only coaches who didn't do well with him consistently were none other than GW and MM. I'm not saying we'd necessarily be better off if we kept him (although one could easily make that argument.) but I am saying that our downfall had nothing to do with him and everything to do with horrible coaching and a nightmare GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 So you're scapegoating the QB instead of the HC. Nice. 799961[/snapback] First try and disprove what I'm saying with facts if you disagree with it. Second You don't find it the least bit intresting/coincidental that nearly every good or great head coach has had a good or great QB? That teams magically go from winner to losers right when the QB is changed or breaks threw? That an overwhelming amount of coaches are fired, without ever getting good QB play? The NFL has far more examples of great QB's that made bad or average coaches great, then great coaches who made bad or average QB's great. It's a fact, not scapegoating. I'll be happy to run off a list, since I can think off about 25 examples off my head, of defensive type HC's that were losers for years, until a QB came in a changed things. Obviously a Defensive coach would have zero impact on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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