C.Biscuit97 Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 For my own sake of mind, I decided to do a comparison between a certain Hall of Fame QB for the Bills and Losman. For the sake of the argument, I will count the KC game last year as a start for Losman since he played the entire game. So that would mean he has 12 starts under his belt. Using my trusting Restless book (which has every box score of a Bills game from 1960 to 1994), I was able to view how Kelly did his 12th start. On 11/23/86, the Bills lost 22 to 19 at the Pats (boo ). In the game, Kelly went 22 for 32 for 250 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT. Some of the game notes from the game: Kelly was sacked 6 times and killed the final Buffalo chance by throwing an INT. On the second play of the game, he was sacked and fumbled in the end zone for a safety (a Bills QB getting saftied in NE ). Before I get flamed, I don't want anyone to think I'm saying Losman is better than Kelly in anyway. But I think it is worth noting that Kelly (who was 26 and had a couple of seasons of playing pro football in the USFL) didn't exactly master the NFL by his 12th start. As much as it sucks, you gotta have some patience. And if watching that game and don't think Losman can be very good, you're retarded. He made some of the most beautiful throws I have ever seen (the perfect floater to Reed for a big gain, a 30 yard perfect rope to Price in double coverage that Price dropped, a 50 yard bomb into the wind that was a little to long for Evans). You never wanna throw any games away and the Bills (and JP) blew a game they dominated. And as stupid as it is, that press conference should me a ton. Despite what that fat tub of lard the Coach says, Losman is the anti-RJ. He just want to win and could care less how he does it. And I'm proud that he is our QB and have full confidence that he will lead us for many years. But there will be bumps along the way. Patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Bravo! Its amazing how little patience and poor memory so many people have. I'm a Losman fan, but I'm not blind to his struggles. It seems like many like to be Losman hater, and be completely blind to his progress. No QB is perfect and it takes several years for them to really come into there own, and even the "best" ones make the kind of mistakes you saw Losman make this week - see Ben R., Eli Manning, Carson Palmer. Anyone that doesn't think he has come around in a big way this year is seriously clueless. Just toss in a tape of last years New Orleans or Atlanta game to see the difference. This week he showed that he is able to put up numbers and showed that he can pass in any conditions. He (and the rest of the team) just need more time to get experience and to build chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Can one of the mods delete this please? There is WAY too much common sense involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I've said it before and I'll say it again now: If Jim Kelly came to Buffalo today, he'd be run out of town long before he was able to accomplish anything. Times have changed and not for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 When did it become the rule that if you are not perfect you are not good enough for this team? I understand peoples frustrations with 6 years of losing but I honestly thought there would be a higher percent of people in Buffalo with some football smarts than TSW exhibits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Bravo! Its amazing how little patience and poor memory so many people have. I'm a Losman fan, but I'm not blind to his struggles. It seems like many like to be Losman hater, and be completely blind to his progress. No QB is perfect and it takes several years for them to really come into there own, and even the "best" ones make the kind of mistakes you saw Losman make this week - see Ben R., Eli Manning, Carson Palmer. Anyone that doesn't think he has come around in a big way this year is seriously clueless. Just toss in a tape of last years New Orleans or Atlanta game to see the difference. This week he showed that he is able to put up numbers and showed that he can pass in any conditions. He (and the rest of the team) just need more time to get experience and to build chemistry. 786841[/snapback] This my friend is a great post. Stick around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I've said it before and I'll say it again now: If Jim Kelly came to Buffalo today, he'd be run out of town long before he was able to accomplish anything. Times have changed and not for the better. 786844[/snapback] Correct, though I wouldn't blame Buffalonians specifically (not really sure if you were). This is probably true for all NFL cities. As late as the 80's when Kelly arrived, everyone recognized that building something great took time. But ever since the salary cap and free agency era in the early 90's, fans have seen teams rise from perennial losers to Super Bowl contenders in 1-2 seasons. So fan patience has naturally diminished across the league. BTW, nice historical perspective, C.Biscuit97. Maybe there's a fine line between a developing QB talent becoming a Kelly and one becoming an RJ? If so, I think this "X factor" could be personal confidence. And of course, it never helps one's own confidence to know that the coaching staff and teammates will turn on you as soon as you make a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 You never wanna throw any games away and the Bills (and JP) blew a game they dominated. And as stupid as it is, that press conference should me a ton. Despite what that fat tub of lard the Coach says, Losman is the anti-RJ. He just want to win and could care less how he does it. And I'm proud that he is our QB and have full confidence that he will lead us for many years. But there will be bumps along the way. Patience. 786834[/snapback] JP is no way RJ...not even close. Both had great arms, and the comparisons end there. I appreciate your Kelly comparison, but you have to remember, those were far different times. When Kelly came to Buffalo, the Bills had been mostly bad for 20 years, and expectations were very low. Kelly, maybe because of his USFL experience, still had his flaws, but was worlds ahead of where JP was in his development. Kelly benefitted from a great GM, some budding elite talent on his team, and a much more stable coaching staff. Though the Bills won only 4 games Kelly rookie season (a 100 percent improvement over the previous two seasons), it was obvious he was an NFL caliber QB from day one. He didn't have to prove himself to anyone, he just took charge. Yeah, he had his game killing ints', but he just had a prescence that no Bills QB has had since. Losman is getting there. He is a much rawer talent than Kelly was. The impatience with Losman (and McGhahee and everyone else) is partly rooted in that "golden era" of Bills football in the early 1990's. Bills fans got spoiled...we spent a better part of a decade hearing all of the media types telling us what a great franchise we had, how we were well managed, had a great scouting staff, the best conditioning coach in the leauge, the best equipment man in the business, etc etc...all of that ended, while we were still basking in it. I think the Patriots are going to go through this next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Sorry but I just think quarterbacks should be better than perfect. If you can throw a tight spiral for a completion once, you can do it again. A leader makes all the players around him better, so if these guys were going to make mistakes, like missing blocks, a leader would make them better and hence not miss blocks. How hard is it to see the whole field and all eleven players on it? Every single time we kick off I see the whole field and all eleven players and I'm up in the stands, and not close like a player is. The teams wear different colors on purpose. I think it's a league rule. How hard could it be, seriously, to throw to the guys on your team and not the other team. Look at your jersey for crissakes. How hard is it to listen to your coach? Really. How hard is it? I know for a fact that Jauron said to his team, we cannot have mistakes. We cannot turn the ball over. And what did we do? Not listen to the coach. It's inexcusable. Losman can throw the ball like 60 yards. I have seen him do it. What's a first down? Like ten yards? All he has to do is take a little off the ball and those 60 yarders would be ten yarders. First down every time. If it's not better than perfect it's inexcusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Sorry but I just think quarterbacks should be better than perfect. If you can throw a tight spiral for a completion once, you can do it again. A leader makes all the players around him better, so if these guys were going to make mistakes, like missing blocks, a leader would make them better and hence not miss blocks. How hard is it to see the whole field and all eleven players on it? Every single time we kick off I see the whole field and all eleven players and I'm up in the stands, and not close like a player is. The teams wear different colors on purpose. I think it's a league rule. How hard could it be, seriously, to throw to the guys on your team and not the other team. Look at your jersey for crissakes. How hard is it to listen to your coach? Really. How hard is it? I know for a fact that Jauron said to his team, we cannot have mistakes. We cannot turn the ball over. And what did we do? Not listen to the coach. It's inexcusable. Losman can throw the ball like 60 yards. I have seen him do it. What's a first down? Like ten yards? All he has to do is take a little off the ball and those 60 yarders would be ten yarders. First down every time. If it's not better than perfect it's inexcusable. 786893[/snapback] Magic. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Correct, though I wouldn't blame Buffalonians specifically (not really sure if you were). This is probably true for all NFL cities. As late as the 80's when Kelly arrived, everyone recognized that building something great took time. But ever since the salary cap and free agency era in the early 90's, fans have seen teams rise from perennial losers to Super Bowl contenders in 1-2 seasons. So fan patience has naturally diminished across the league. Backing up KH's post with some leaguewide perspective: checking out the postgame chatter on the FootballOutsiders site (highly recommended, BTW), I found reports of both Brady and Roethlisberger being booed on their home fields yesterday. And I recall yet again that "fan" is short for "fanatic". JP hasn't convinced me he's going to be "The Guy". He also hasn't convinced me he won't be. Overall, this was already one of the younger teams in the league even before Troy Vincent went on IR; is anyone surprised they're a little rough around the edges? Some games might be fun to watch, others might be frustrating as all get-out, but at least this season shouldn't be boring. Just buckle the seatbelt and try to enjoy the roller-coaster ride... P.S.: Nice post, KTFABD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Sorry but I just think quarterbacks should be better than perfect. If you can throw a tight spiral for a completion once, you can do it again. A leader makes all the players around him better, so if these guys were going to make mistakes, like missing blocks, a leader would make them better and hence not miss blocks. How hard is it to see the whole field and all eleven players on it? Every single time we kick off I see the whole field and all eleven players and I'm up in the stands, and not close like a player is. The teams wear different colors on purpose. I think it's a league rule. How hard could it be, seriously, to throw to the guys on your team and not the other team. Look at your jersey for crissakes. How hard is it to listen to your coach? Really. How hard is it? I know for a fact that Jauron said to his team, we cannot have mistakes. We cannot turn the ball over. And what did we do? Not listen to the coach. It's inexcusable. Losman can throw the ball like 60 yards. I have seen him do it. What's a first down? Like ten yards? All he has to do is take a little off the ball and those 60 yarders would be ten yarders. First down every time. If it's not better than perfect it's inexcusable. 786893[/snapback] Kelly, when did you go crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Sylvan Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Absolutely Excellent post. Name one QB who has nothing to improve on, even Peyton and the others have their share of bad games, and bad plays during good games. I was only about 3 at the time, but out of curiosity were people claiming at the end of the 80's that JK should be run out of town? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bflojohn Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Actually, to me, Sunday DRIPPED with huge potential for this franchise! In many ways this season has been ANYTHING but boring!! If one subscribes to the theory that teams mature over time, then this team is exihibit A. The young QB may have had a game where he matured somewhat and proved that Buffalo weather wasn't a hinderance to his performance. His passes, for the most part, cut right through the wind and rain. Not at all bad, in my book. Willis McGahee has a career day too! The defense has young guns maturing right before our eyes yet somehow this isn't good enough? The question here should be about the future of this franchise, and right now I love the direction their going.... I think it's called "UP"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LevysEraII Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 He made some of the most beautiful throws I have ever seen (the perfect floater to Reed for a big gain, a 30 yard perfect rope to Price in double coverage that Price dropped, a 50 yard bomb into the wind that was a little to long for Evans). 786834[/snapback] Don't forget the hot read TD toss to Parrish as well as the sideline pass to Parrish. Those were awesome passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I said it before the season starts: With a QB in his 11th or so start, you are going to see some genius and some stupidity. You just have to hope as a fan that you have more moments of brilliance than idiocy. On the balance, I think Losman is a MUCH more confident QB than he was last year, and in part I think that's because he knows he's the starter. Under Mularkey, he lived with the constant threat of being pulled from the game. That is horrible, inexcusable. You WANT your QB to play on the edge of being out of control. Like any race car driver, a QB is best when he's on the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 You WANT your QB to play on the edge of being out of control. Like any race car driver, a QB is best when he's on the edge. 786959[/snapback] I like the rest of your post, but I strongly disagree with the above Joseph. Are you sure about the way it was worded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Am I the only one who thought JP played amazingly well on Sunday? I was at the game, and I was absolutely marveled by his - decision-making - howitzer arm - ACCURACY - knowledge of when to throw the ball away when scrambling - beautiful touch pass to Josh Reed towards the sideline in the second half - willingness to stay in the pocket and keep his eyes downfield (this alone is LIGHTYEARS ahead of last season) - competitiveness - leadership - moxie - willingness to put the game on his shoulders I don't get it. JP played well. He missed one blitz, leading to the first fumble, and he shouldn't have thrown the INT. So fuggin' what. Bledsoe made two of those gaffes per quarter, and Favre still does. Eli is inaccurate. Big Ben is a headcase. Chad has a noodle-arm (we know what will happen to the Jets come December). Daunte is washed-up. Even Brady is playing poorly this season. I will fuggin say it - I've seen every Bills game for the last 15-16 years - JP is the best we've had since Jimbo, and it's not even close. Maybe that's not saying much, but it's sure as hell encouraging as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I like the rest of your post, but I strongly disagree with the above Joseph. Are you sure about the way it was worded? 786962[/snapback] Yes. Think about any of the greats...Kelly, Marino, Elway. They were masters of making the high-risk, high-reward play. All too often today in the NFl, coaches put a leash on their QBs for fear of making mistakes. I'm of the opinion that greatness is only possible when risk is maximized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I'm of the opinion that greatness is only possible when risk is maximized. 786966[/snapback] I don't know about "maximized," but certainly "accepted" or "not shied away from." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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