DCM Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Copied from another board........ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He’s ours. A lot of people on this board are very strongly anti-Culpepper. The following should allay your concerns and help get you excited about our new QB. Culpepper has been the most productive QB in NFL history. When you account for his rushing numbers, his production has been absolutely phenomenal. Over his career, Culpepper has 164 total TDs in 81 games, an average of more than 2 TDs per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history: Marino (429 in 242 games, an average of 1.77) Favre (408 in 225 games, an average of 1.81) PManning (253 in 128 games, an average of 1.97) KWarner (121 in 73 games, an average of 1.65) In short, Culpepper is the most prolific TD scoring QB on a per game basis in NFL history. Next, look at total yards (rushing and passing). Culpepper has 22,639 total yards in 81 games, an average of 279.5 yards per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history: Marino (61448 in 242 games, an average of 254 yards per game) Favre (55360 in 225 games, an average of 246 yards per game) PManning (33854 in 128 games, an average of 264.5 yards per game) KWarner (19474 in 73 games, an average of 266.7 yards per game) So Culpepper is also the most productive QB in terms of yards from scrimmage in NFL history on a per game basis. Then compare his INTs to the aforementioned guys. Culpepper has 86 in 81 games, an average of 1.06 per game. Marino (1.04 per game) Favre (1.13 per game) PManning (1.015 per game) KWarner (1.07 per game) So Daunte is the most productive QB (on a per game basis) in NFL history in terms of both yards and TDs. His interception rate is comparable to or better than any of the guys that are even close (and they're not that close). His completion percentage of 64.4 is the second-best in NFL history. And that is not in a dink-and-dunk West Coast offense. It’s not terribly surprising, as he holds the single season NCAA record for completion percentage at 73.4%. That is with a vertical passing game. In 2004 he completed an incredible 17 of 34 passes thrown more than 31 yards from scrimmage in the air. And no, it was not because of jump balls to Moss -- Moss caught only 3 of them. Physically, he has a lot more size and speed than any QB should be allowed to have. He's the size of a DE and runs like a fullback. His rushing numbers are second only to Michael Vick among QBs. Below are my responses to the criticisms I hear from the Culpepper haters: The Knee It is legitimate to be concerned about the knee, but this is an area we all need to defer to the doctors on. They are saying he is well ahead of schedule and will play next year. The trade hinges on his passing a physical, so if it goes through, that means the Fins docs say he’s OK. The decision on a QB of the future should not hinge on whether he'll be at full strength at the beginning of this year (this goes for Brees too). I can't think of a single QB whose career was ended or derailed by a kneee injury. I’ve asked in several threads if anyone could think of a single on and nobody came forward with any. In recent years, there has been virtually 100% recovery from knee injuries, including RBs, WRs and CBs who are much more dependent on their speed and cutting ability than a QB (even a mobile one) is. For those positions, the difference between 4.4 speed and 4.6 speed may be difference between star and scrub. Any loss int he ability to plant and cut on a dime fundamentally changes who that player is. Nonetheless, guys like EJames, Jamal Lewis, McGahee, etc. have all come back as good as new. For a QB, even a mobile one, it is much less important. Even if Culpepper goes from a 4.7 40 guy to 4.8 or 4.9, it won't make a huge difference. When RBs are able to come back from hideous knee injuries, it seems like a stretch to say that Culpepper can't or won't. There is a long list of QBs who have played at a HOF level for years with “bad knees” – Marino, Namath, Elway, Stabler, etc. The Fumbles Yes, he does fumble a lot. However, even if you treat the fumbles as interceptions, his numbers are still great. A rushing attempt is akin to a completed pass, albeit usually a short one. They usually come on passing downs and are positive yardage plays. If you look at combined rushing and passing numbers and treat each rushing attempt as a pass attempt and a completion, each rushing TD as a passing TD, and each fumble as an interception, Culpepper's adjusted rating comes out to 92.6, which is a little below Payton Manning's adjusted career rating of 94.3, but is above Carson Palmer (90.9). Gus's 2005 adjusted rating is 69.9. Marino’s career adjusted rating is 86.7. People keep citing to the total fumbles numbers, as opposed to fumbles lost, which is really the relevant number. He's lost an average of about 5 fumbles per season, which is about 2-3 more than most other QBs. BTW, Gus fumbled 13 times last year and lost 4, but I have never heard anyone on this board bitching about that particular aspect of his game. Also, part of the reason Culpepper fumbles is that he runs with the ball, i.e., he actually gets tackled while holding the ball 100+ times per year. If the average RB had those carries instead of Culpepper, he'd fumble a few times too (Ronnie Brown had 4 fumbles in 239 touches and Ricky has 35 fumbles in approximately 2000 touches in his career). The Boat Give me a break. He is charged with getting a lap dance and touching the dancer's tushy. Are you such prudes that you find that to be outrageous conduct? Do you think no other NFL players get lap dances? Hell, Clinton Portis had a stripper pole and a bevy of strippers in his house. Do you really think the Fins players would be hesitant to follow his lead because he allegedly touched a stripper's tushy? The Moss Culpepper's great numbers are not because of Randy Moss -- any more than Montana/Young were products of Rice. Or any more than Manning is a product of Harrison. Almost every great QB has had some great WRs. In 2004, Mossed missed 3 games and was just a decoy in 2 others. In those 5 games, Culpepper completed 113 of 166 passes (68%) for 1179 yards, 9 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to a QB rating of 99. In other games, he was hurt and simply didn’t do much. For that season, if you exclude passes thrown to Moss, he completed 330 of 463 passes (71.3%), for 3950 yards and 26 TDs. Even if you assume that none of his INTs were on passes thrown to Moss, which is doubtful, his QB rating excluding Moss was 105.9. Moreover, Moss clearly didn't make Kerry Collins into the Pro Bowler this year, even though he was opposite other quality WRs. The 2005 INTs Culpepper had a very bad start to 2005. He had 8 picks in the first 2 games, but had 6 TDs and 4 INTs in the 4 games after that. He was playing for a new OC, with a new set of receivers and an OL that had lost its anchor, Pro Bowl center Matt Birk. The OL was really struggling -- he was sacked 31 times in just over 6 games. You can't disregard his career numbers based on 2 bad games at the start of the season. Even the best QBs will occasionally have a 3-4 INT game. The Playoffs True, Minnesota has not been a great team since he's been there, but they have consistently had one of the 5-6 worst defenses in the NFL. From 2000-04, the Vikes never had a defense that was better than 25th in the NFL. Even Marino had better defenses in the late 80s and early 90s. With a few exceptions, Minny had unremarkable running games during that time (especially if you exclude Culpepper's rushing numbers). Still, the Vikes were 39-41 during that time period, which is comparable to Marino's record from 1986-89 when the Fins defenses were bad (30-33). We all know that even a great QB cannot win with a bad defense. When he’s been in the playoffs, he’s 2-2. His career playoff numbers are pretty respectable -- 73/134, 980 yds, 8 TDs and 5 INTs (82.3 rating). He had one terrible game against the Giants in 2001, a mediocre one against the Eagles in 2004, and two very good ones against the Saints in '01 and the Packers in '04 (total of 36/60, 618 yds, 7 TDs, 0 INTs). The Money Daunte is due to make $2 million this year, less than half of what Gus is due to be paid. Brees will undoubtedly cost several times that amount. The 3 years after this one, Culpepper is due to make around $6 million per year, which isn't much for an upper echelon QB. Brees would have cost more. Some are offended that he reportedly asked for more money, but it isn't clear that he did. His agent did, and then got fired for it. The Vikes owner had publicly said that he would re-evaluate Daunte's contract after this past season, so it wouldn't have been unusual for Daunte to expect him to do that. The Backups Some people argue that the fact that his backups have had success in Minny means he is a product of the system. When they make this argument, they usually selectively ignore the numbers of his backups who did not play well. Even so, the reality is that a lot of QBs will do well in a good offensive system, with a decent OL and some talent around him. The Viking backups success is hardly unique. Take a look at the QB ratings of the following backups, with the starter in parentheses: Steve Young (Montana) 108.9 Steve Bono (Montana) 88.5 Jeff Kemp (Montana) 85.7 Scott Mitchell (Marino) 91.4 Craig Erickson (Marino) 86.3 Elvis Grbac (Young) 87.9 Jeff Garcia (Young) 89.9 Frank Reich (Kelly) 102.3 Jim Sorgi (Manning) 99.1 Matt Cassel (Brady) 89.4 Marc Bulger (Warner) 101.5 Trent Green (Warner) 101.8 Bernie Kosar (Aikman) 92.7 Rodney Peete (Aikman) 102.5 Jason Garrett (Aikman) 83.3 Billy Volek (McNair) 87.4 In addition to those, you have guys like Brooks, Brunell and Hasselbeck who looked good as backups to Favre and drew a lot in trades/FA. Same for Feeley behind McNabb. None of this means that Culpepper (or any of the QBs listed in parentheses above) are not great QBs. They are. Culpepper has put up incredible numbers and is a proven commodity. The Vikes improvement in the 2nd half of the season last year was not because Brad Johnson was better. It was because the OL, which was recovering from the loss of Matt Birk and a rookie at G, started to gel as the season went on. The OL gave up 29 sacks in the first 6 games. They gave up only 23 in the next 10 games. The other reason was that the defense improved dramatically in the second half of the season. In the first 7 games, the defense gave up 193 points, which is approximately 28 per game. In the next 9, they gave up 151 points, which comes out to an average of less than 17 per game. Gee, do you think a difference of 11 ppg allowed might make a difference in wins and losses? Intelligence First, and not that it is necessarily a true measure of intelligence, but Culpepper scored a 21 on the Wonderlic. This is better than Marino (14), McNabb (16), McNair (15), and a point less than Brett Favre (22). Obviously, the Wonderlic is not a foolproof indicator of the ability to understand NFL defenses. What are good indicators of the ability to make decisions and read defenses is performance on 3rd downs, when blitzed, and in the red zone. On 3rd downs, NFL teams basically know you are passing and the defenses are at their most creative to stop the pass. Performance on blitzes shows the QBs ability to make decisions under pressure and find the open man in a very short time. Performance in the red zone shows what he can do with a short field in critical situations. In 2004, Culpepper's performance on 3rd down and blitzes was phenomenal. On 3rd downs, he completed 93 of 134 (69.4%), for 1391 yards, 19 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to an absurd QB rating of 133.7. That year, on blitzes, he completed 101 of 159 (63.5%), for 1217, 15 TDs and 1 INT, which is a 115.7 rating. In the red zone, he completed 54 of 88 for 352 yards, 26 TDs and 2 INTs, for a rating of 158.2 (the maximum). These types of numbers simply are not possible if you can't read defenses and make good decisions. Do people think that every defense he faced was pure vanilla? Yes, last year he struggled, especially in those first 2 games. But his 2003 numbers in these categories are comparable to his 2004 numbers. 3rd down -- 79/121, 1054, 12, 3 (Rating: 115.5) Blitz -- 60/103, 785, 9, 4 (Rating: 95.3) Red Zone -- 23/51, 147, 14, 2 (Rating: 126.8) For comparison sake, Gus's numbers in these categories last year are: 3rd down -- 63/152, 813, 5, 5 (Rating: 56.2) Blitz -- 73/162, 866, 5, 4 (Rating: 61.9) Red Zone -- 28/65, 189, 12, 3 (Rating: 70.8) Remember, these are in essentially the same Linehan offense (which we say we are keeping). “Game Management” A lot of people talk about certain QBs being good game managers. I hear that a lot about Brees and some Gusketeers also like to claim that he was a good game manager. I think that, in most cases, that is just someone's way of pumping up a guy they like on the basis of some intangible that cannot be verified or disproven. Let's face it, with the exception of occasional audibles, the coaches call the plays. Most of what people refer to as game management is really a reflection of the plays called by the coaches, not anything the QB has done. That said, I think there is some QB "game management" in the way the guy plays on 3rd and 4th down. "Managing the game" basically boils down to how well the QB keeps the chains moving, which basically boils down to converting 3rd and 4th downs. Avoiding turnovers is another aspect of game management. I was only able to find stats for this for the past 2 seasons. Culpepper’s conversion rate on 3rd and 4th downs has been excellent. Over the last 2 years, he has converted 98/196 (50%). This is the same as Payton Manning (119 of 238), but better than Brees (121/264 – 45.8%) and Brady (122/270 – 45.1%). Gus supporters claim he was a good game manager last year, but he converted only 50/160 third and 4th downs last year, which comes out to 31.25%. These numbers do not include plays in which the QB ran for a 1st down on 3rd or 4th down. The Draft Pick Giving up a 2nd rounder is a small price to pay (it's not clear to me now whether it is 2006 or 2007). Either way, there will be no one in the draft this year or next who is a proven commodity with Culpepper’s talent level. Certainly no one in the 2nd round. The price for high draft pick QBs is around $50 million over 6 years, with more than $20 million of that guaranteed. Culpepper’s contract is much more cap friendly. Clearly, the Fins decided that Brees’ price tag was simply too high. Now stop crying about getting a 29-year old, physically dominant QB who has put up numbers over his 7 year career that compare favorably to the best who have ever played the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Congratulations! Here's to DC being as good as Marino, & folding in big games just like Loser Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 You know he's not playing for the Bills, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 *snoring sounds can be heard filling the room* Ha, wha? Who... Oh, it's the fin fan. *snoring sounds resume* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Congratulations! Here's to DC being as good as Marino, & folding in big games just like Loser Dan. 632522[/snapback] Yeah it helps your stats when you throw to Chris Carter and Randy Moss for half your career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 *snoring sounds can be heard filling the room* Ha, wha? Who... Oh, it's the fin fan. *snoring sounds resume* 632526[/snapback] Geez, another 10,000 word quote. And this time it was just to let us know you don't care!-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 *snoring sounds can be heard filling the room* Ha, wha? Who... Oh, it's the fin fan. *snoring sounds resume* 632526[/snapback] you did add 3 lines this time it is fun to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Culpepper's great numbers are not because of Randy Moss -- any more than Montana/Young were products of Rice. Or any more than Manning is a product of Harrison. Almost every great QB has had some great WRs. In 2004, Mossed missed 3 games and was just a decoy in 2 others. In those 5 games, Culpepper completed 113 of 166 passes (68%) for 1179 yards, 9 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to a QB rating of 99. In other games, he was hurt and simply didn’t do much. For that season, if you exclude passes thrown to Moss, he completed 330 of 463 passes (71.3%), for 3950 yards and 26 TDs. Even if you assume that none of his INTs were on passes thrown to Moss, which is doubtful, his QB rating excluding Moss was 105.9. Moreover, Moss clearly didn't make Kerry Collins into the Pro Bowler this year, even though he was opposite other quality WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCM Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Yeah it helps your stats when you throw to Chris Carter and Randy Moss for half your career. 632530[/snapback] Yeah I guess you're right.....that Kerry Collins really lit it up last year! And God knows CRIS Carter has left a long trail of Hall of Fame QB's in his path.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 The Moss In 2004, Mossed missed 3 games and was just a decoy in 2 others. I 632518[/snapback] In the rest he simply left the field with time on the clock because he couldn't be bothered with work anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Culpepper struggled at the start of this season This was his first year he wasn't throwing to Moss Coincidence?????????? Oh but wait, he didn't make K. Collins into a pro Bowler this year Could it have been Moss was hurt for a while this year too (groin injury I believe)? Culpepper is a good QB, I will give him that, but this guy makes it sound like they just signed the greatest guy to ever play the game. There is a reson why Minny gave into his trade request this offseason, and it wasn't due to salary cap. Brad Johnson seemed to be play very well for them after DC went down, maybe he just had a decent team in Minny making him look better than he really was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCM Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 In the rest he simply left the field with time on the clock because he couldn't be bothered with work anymore. 632549[/snapback] EXACTLY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCM Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Culpepper struggled at the start of this season This was his first year he wasn't throwing to Moss Coincidence?????????? Oh but wait, he didn't make K. Collins into a pro Bowler this year Could it have been he was hurt for a while this year too (groin injury I believe)? Culpepper is a good QB, I will give him that, but this guy makes it sound like they just signed the greatest guy to ever play the game. There is a reson why Minny gave into his trade request this offseason, and it wasn't due to salary cap. Brad Johnson seemed to be play very well for them after DC went down, maybe he just had a decent team in Minny making him look better than he really was. 632550[/snapback] Can you dispute any of the facts in the Manifesto? I believe it was written to do exactly what you claim this guy is trying to do... The post touches on the time that Moss either played hurt or didn't play.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Yeah I guess you're right.....that Kerry Collins really lit it up last year! And God knows CRIS Carter has left a long trail of Hall of Fame QB's in his path.... 632544[/snapback] Brad Johnson, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham and Rich Gannon. Carter could've even have made Salsbury look good. Norv Turner was always known for his vertical passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Copied from another board........-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He’s ours. A lot of people on this board are very strongly anti-Culpepper. The following should allay your concerns and help get you excited about our new QB. Culpepper has been the most productive QB in NFL history. When you account for his rushing numbers, his production has been absolutely phenomenal. Over his career, Culpepper has 164 total TDs in 81 games, an average of more than 2 TDs per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history: Marino (429 in 242 games, an average of 1.77) Favre (408 in 225 games, an average of 1.81) PManning (253 in 128 games, an average of 1.97) KWarner (121 in 73 games, an average of 1.65) In short, Culpepper is the most prolific TD scoring QB on a per game basis in NFL history. Next, look at total yards (rushing and passing). Culpepper has 22,639 total yards in 81 games, an average of 279.5 yards per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history: Marino (61448 in 242 games, an average of 254 yards per game) Favre (55360 in 225 games, an average of 246 yards per game) PManning (33854 in 128 games, an average of 264.5 yards per game) KWarner (19474 in 73 games, an average of 266.7 yards per game) So Culpepper is also the most productive QB in terms of yards from scrimmage in NFL history on a per game basis. Then compare his INTs to the aforementioned guys. Culpepper has 86 in 81 games, an average of 1.06 per game. Marino (1.04 per game) Favre (1.13 per game) PManning (1.015 per game) KWarner (1.07 per game) So Daunte is the most productive QB (on a per game basis) in NFL history in terms of both yards and TDs. His interception rate is comparable to or better than any of the guys that are even close (and they're not that close). His completion percentage of 64.4 is the second-best in NFL history. And that is not in a dink-and-dunk West Coast offense. It’s not terribly surprising, as he holds the single season NCAA record for completion percentage at 73.4%. That is with a vertical passing game. In 2004 he completed an incredible 17 of 34 passes thrown more than 31 yards from scrimmage in the air. And no, it was not because of jump balls to Moss -- Moss caught only 3 of them. Physically, he has a lot more size and speed than any QB should be allowed to have. He's the size of a DE and runs like a fullback. His rushing numbers are second only to Michael Vick among QBs. Below are my responses to the criticisms I hear from the Culpepper haters: The Knee It is legitimate to be concerned about the knee, but this is an area we all need to defer to the doctors on. They are saying he is well ahead of schedule and will play next year. The trade hinges on his passing a physical, so if it goes through, that means the Fins docs say he’s OK. The decision on a QB of the future should not hinge on whether he'll be at full strength at the beginning of this year (this goes for Brees too). I can't think of a single QB whose career was ended or derailed by a kneee injury. I’ve asked in several threads if anyone could think of a single on and nobody came forward with any. In recent years, there has been virtually 100% recovery from knee injuries, including RBs, WRs and CBs who are much more dependent on their speed and cutting ability than a QB (even a mobile one) is. For those positions, the difference between 4.4 speed and 4.6 speed may be difference between star and scrub. Any loss int he ability to plant and cut on a dime fundamentally changes who that player is. Nonetheless, guys like EJames, Jamal Lewis, McGahee, etc. have all come back as good as new. For a QB, even a mobile one, it is much less important. Even if Culpepper goes from a 4.7 40 guy to 4.8 or 4.9, it won't make a huge difference. When RBs are able to come back from hideous knee injuries, it seems like a stretch to say that Culpepper can't or won't. There is a long list of QBs who have played at a HOF level for years with “bad knees” – Marino, Namath, Elway, Stabler, etc. The Fumbles Yes, he does fumble a lot. However, even if you treat the fumbles as interceptions, his numbers are still great. A rushing attempt is akin to a completed pass, albeit usually a short one. They usually come on passing downs and are positive yardage plays. If you look at combined rushing and passing numbers and treat each rushing attempt as a pass attempt and a completion, each rushing TD as a passing TD, and each fumble as an interception, Culpepper's adjusted rating comes out to 92.6, which is a little below Payton Manning's adjusted career rating of 94.3, but is above Carson Palmer (90.9). Gus's 2005 adjusted rating is 69.9. Marino’s career adjusted rating is 86.7. People keep citing to the total fumbles numbers, as opposed to fumbles lost, which is really the relevant number. He's lost an average of about 5 fumbles per season, which is about 2-3 more than most other QBs. BTW, Gus fumbled 13 times last year and lost 4, but I have never heard anyone on this board bitching about that particular aspect of his game. Also, part of the reason Culpepper fumbles is that he runs with the ball, i.e., he actually gets tackled while holding the ball 100+ times per year. If the average RB had those carries instead of Culpepper, he'd fumble a few times too (Ronnie Brown had 4 fumbles in 239 touches and Ricky has 35 fumbles in approximately 2000 touches in his career). The Boat Give me a break. He is charged with getting a lap dance and touching the dancer's tushy. Are you such prudes that you find that to be outrageous conduct? Do you think no other NFL players get lap dances? Hell, Clinton Portis had a stripper pole and a bevy of strippers in his house. Do you really think the Fins players would be hesitant to follow his lead because he allegedly touched a stripper's tushy? The Moss Culpepper's great numbers are not because of Randy Moss -- any more than Montana/Young were products of Rice. Or any more than Manning is a product of Harrison. Almost every great QB has had some great WRs. In 2004, Mossed missed 3 games and was just a decoy in 2 others. In those 5 games, Culpepper completed 113 of 166 passes (68%) for 1179 yards, 9 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to a QB rating of 99. In other games, he was hurt and simply didn’t do much. For that season, if you exclude passes thrown to Moss, he completed 330 of 463 passes (71.3%), for 3950 yards and 26 TDs. Even if you assume that none of his INTs were on passes thrown to Moss, which is doubtful, his QB rating excluding Moss was 105.9. Moreover, Moss clearly didn't make Kerry Collins into the Pro Bowler this year, even though he was opposite other quality WRs. The 2005 INTs Culpepper had a very bad start to 2005. He had 8 picks in the first 2 games, but had 6 TDs and 4 INTs in the 4 games after that. He was playing for a new OC, with a new set of receivers and an OL that had lost its anchor, Pro Bowl center Matt Birk. The OL was really struggling -- he was sacked 31 times in just over 6 games. You can't disregard his career numbers based on 2 bad games at the start of the season. Even the best QBs will occasionally have a 3-4 INT game. The Playoffs True, Minnesota has not been a great team since he's been there, but they have consistently had one of the 5-6 worst defenses in the NFL. From 2000-04, the Vikes never had a defense that was better than 25th in the NFL. Even Marino had better defenses in the late 80s and early 90s. With a few exceptions, Minny had unremarkable running games during that time (especially if you exclude Culpepper's rushing numbers). Still, the Vikes were 39-41 during that time period, which is comparable to Marino's record from 1986-89 when the Fins defenses were bad (30-33). We all know that even a great QB cannot win with a bad defense. When he’s been in the playoffs, he’s 2-2. His career playoff numbers are pretty respectable -- 73/134, 980 yds, 8 TDs and 5 INTs (82.3 rating). He had one terrible game against the Giants in 2001, a mediocre one against the Eagles in 2004, and two very good ones against the Saints in '01 and the Packers in '04 (total of 36/60, 618 yds, 7 TDs, 0 INTs). The Money Daunte is due to make $2 million this year, less than half of what Gus is due to be paid. Brees will undoubtedly cost several times that amount. The 3 years after this one, Culpepper is due to make around $6 million per year, which isn't much for an upper echelon QB. Brees would have cost more. Some are offended that he reportedly asked for more money, but it isn't clear that he did. His agent did, and then got fired for it. The Vikes owner had publicly said that he would re-evaluate Daunte's contract after this past season, so it wouldn't have been unusual for Daunte to expect him to do that. The Backups Some people argue that the fact that his backups have had success in Minny means he is a product of the system. When they make this argument, they usually selectively ignore the numbers of his backups who did not play well. Even so, the reality is that a lot of QBs will do well in a good offensive system, with a decent OL and some talent around him. The Viking backups success is hardly unique. Take a look at the QB ratings of the following backups, with the starter in parentheses: Steve Young (Montana) 108.9 Steve Bono (Montana) 88.5 Jeff Kemp (Montana) 85.7 Scott Mitchell (Marino) 91.4 Craig Erickson (Marino) 86.3 Elvis Grbac (Young) 87.9 Jeff Garcia (Young) 89.9 Frank Reich (Kelly) 102.3 Jim Sorgi (Manning) 99.1 Matt Cassel (Brady) 89.4 Marc Bulger (Warner) 101.5 Trent Green (Warner) 101.8 Bernie Kosar (Aikman) 92.7 Rodney Peete (Aikman) 102.5 Jason Garrett (Aikman) 83.3 Billy Volek (McNair) 87.4 In addition to those, you have guys like Brooks, Brunell and Hasselbeck who looked good as backups to Favre and drew a lot in trades/FA. Same for Feeley behind McNabb. None of this means that Culpepper (or any of the QBs listed in parentheses above) are not great QBs. They are. Culpepper has put up incredible numbers and is a proven commodity. The Vikes improvement in the 2nd half of the season last year was not because Brad Johnson was better. It was because the OL, which was recovering from the loss of Matt Birk and a rookie at G, started to gel as the season went on. The OL gave up 29 sacks in the first 6 games. They gave up only 23 in the next 10 games. The other reason was that the defense improved dramatically in the second half of the season. In the first 7 games, the defense gave up 193 points, which is approximately 28 per game. In the next 9, they gave up 151 points, which comes out to an average of less than 17 per game. Gee, do you think a difference of 11 ppg allowed might make a difference in wins and losses? Intelligence First, and not that it is necessarily a true measure of intelligence, but Culpepper scored a 21 on the Wonderlic. This is better than Marino (14), McNabb (16), McNair (15), and a point less than Brett Favre (22). Obviously, the Wonderlic is not a foolproof indicator of the ability to understand NFL defenses. What are good indicators of the ability to make decisions and read defenses is performance on 3rd downs, when blitzed, and in the red zone. On 3rd downs, NFL teams basically know you are passing and the defenses are at their most creative to stop the pass. Performance on blitzes shows the QBs ability to make decisions under pressure and find the open man in a very short time. Performance in the red zone shows what he can do with a short field in critical situations. In 2004, Culpepper's performance on 3rd down and blitzes was phenomenal. On 3rd downs, he completed 93 of 134 (69.4%), for 1391 yards, 19 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to an absurd QB rating of 133.7. That year, on blitzes, he completed 101 of 159 (63.5%), for 1217, 15 TDs and 1 INT, which is a 115.7 rating. In the red zone, he completed 54 of 88 for 352 yards, 26 TDs and 2 INTs, for a rating of 158.2 (the maximum). These types of numbers simply are not possible if you can't read defenses and make good decisions. Do people think that every defense he faced was pure vanilla? Yes, last year he struggled, especially in those first 2 games. But his 2003 numbers in these categories are comparable to his 2004 numbers. 3rd down -- 79/121, 1054, 12, 3 (Rating: 115.5) Blitz -- 60/103, 785, 9, 4 (Rating: 95.3) Red Zone -- 23/51, 147, 14, 2 (Rating: 126.8) For comparison sake, Gus's numbers in these categories last year are: 3rd down -- 63/152, 813, 5, 5 (Rating: 56.2) Blitz -- 73/162, 866, 5, 4 (Rating: 61.9) Red Zone -- 28/65, 189, 12, 3 (Rating: 70.8) Remember, these are in essentially the same Linehan offense (which we say we are keeping). “Game Management” A lot of people talk about certain QBs being good game managers. I hear that a lot about Brees and some Gusketeers also like to claim that he was a good game manager. I think that, in most cases, that is just someone's way of pumping up a guy they like on the basis of some intangible that cannot be verified or disproven. Let's face it, with the exception of occasional audibles, the coaches call the plays. Most of what people refer to as game management is really a reflection of the plays called by the coaches, not anything the QB has done. That said, I think there is some QB "game management" in the way the guy plays on 3rd and 4th down. "Managing the game" basically boils down to how well the QB keeps the chains moving, which basically boils down to converting 3rd and 4th downs. Avoiding turnovers is another aspect of game management. I was only able to find stats for this for the past 2 seasons. Culpepper’s conversion rate on 3rd and 4th downs has been excellent. Over the last 2 years, he has converted 98/196 (50%). This is the same as Payton Manning (119 of 238), but better than Brees (121/264 – 45.8%) and Brady (122/270 – 45.1%). Gus supporters claim he was a good game manager last year, but he converted only 50/160 third and 4th downs last year, which comes out to 31.25%. These numbers do not include plays in which the QB ran for a 1st down on 3rd or 4th down. The Draft Pick Giving up a 2nd rounder is a small price to pay (it's not clear to me now whether it is 2006 or 2007). Either way, there will be no one in the draft this year or next who is a proven commodity with Culpepper’s talent level. Certainly no one in the 2nd round. The price for high draft pick QBs is around $50 million over 6 years, with more than $20 million of that guaranteed. Culpepper’s contract is much more cap friendly. Clearly, the Fins decided that Brees’ price tag was simply too high. Now stop crying about getting a 29-year old, physically dominant QB who has put up numbers over his 7 year career that compare favorably to the best who have ever played the position. 632518[/snapback] Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Brad Johnson, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham and Rich Gannon. Carter could've even have made Salsbury look good. 632556[/snapback] Carter made everybody look good.... except Fiedler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCM Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Brad Johnson, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham and Rich Gannon. Carter could've even have made Salsbury look good. Norv Turner was always known for his vertical passing game. 632556[/snapback] Wow.....that is an impressive list of Hall of Famers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Wow.....that is an impressive list of Hall of Famers.... 632561[/snapback] Never said they were/are hall of famers just pointing out the fact that Carter DID indeed make qb's, along with MOSS great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Carter made everybody look good.... except Fiedler. 632560[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Can you dispute any of the facts in the Manifesto? I believe it was written to do exactly what you claim this guy is trying to do... The post touches on the time that Moss either played hurt or didn't play.... 632555[/snapback] I can't dispute any of the facts cause I don't follow Dante's career with a fine tooth comb. The guy who wrote that (and probably you too) seem to have a hard on for a QB that has had Pro Bowl Receiver playing for him his entire career so people think he is that much better. Not saying he is the Worst QB ever, But I'm not going to sit here and say he is even in the top 20 of the best QB's the NFL has ever had. He is definitly an upgrade over what Miami has had since Marino left, but thats not saying much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Thanks 632558[/snapback] you trying to make that list to be cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Yeah it helps your stats when you throw to Chris Carter and Randy Moss for half your career. 632530[/snapback] Speaking of Randy things...(sorry if posted before). Randy Moss' attorney arrested on charges of possessing crack Associated Press ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - An agent for the Oakland Raiders' wide receiver Randy Moss along with his wife are charged with possession of crack cocaine as result of police being called to a hotel to investigate a disturbance, authorities said Wednesday. Dante DiTrapano and his wife, Teri, of Charleston, W.Va., were arrested Tuesday at a hotel in St. Petersburg, police said. The pair remained in jail late Wednesday on $5,000 bond each, according to a Pinellas County Jail official. The hotel's management called police to report a disturbance outside the couple's room. When officers entered the room they found cocaine in plain view, police said. "It was all over the place - little bits of crack here, paraphernalia. It was on the bed, on the floor," said to George Kajtsa, a public information officer at the St. Petersburg police department. The police seized 73 pieces of crack cocaine and 21 grams of powder cocaine, Kajtsa said. An officer who wrote the report on the incident said another amount of cocaine appeared to have been flushed down the toilet, Kajtsa said...". http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/new...ws/14107846.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Long Beach Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Thanks DCM. I've followed Daunte for a while. He's so clearly an upgrade for you guys it's scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Thanks DCM. I've followed Daunte for a while. He's so clearly an upgrade for you guys it's scary. 632595[/snapback] a fin fan??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCM Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Thanks DCM. I've followed Daunte for a while. He's so clearly an upgrade for you guys it's scary. 632595[/snapback] If the Fins could just somehow coax Cris Carter to come out of retirement....man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Copied from another board........-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He’s ours. A lot of people on this board are very strongly anti-Culpepper. The following should allay your concerns and help get you excited about our new QB. Culpepper has been the most productive QB in NFL history. When you account for his rushing numbers, his production has been absolutely phenomenal. Over his career, Culpepper has 164 total TDs in 81 games, an average of more than 2 TDs per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history: Marino (429 in 242 games, an average of 1.77) Favre (408 in 225 games, an average of 1.81) PManning (253 in 128 games, an average of 1.97) KWarner (121 in 73 games, an average of 1.65) In short, Culpepper is the most prolific TD scoring QB on a per game basis in NFL history. Next, look at total yards (rushing and passing). Culpepper has 22,639 total yards in 81 games, an average of 279.5 yards per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history: Marino (61448 in 242 games, an average of 254 yards per game) Favre (55360 in 225 games, an average of 246 yards per game) PManning (33854 in 128 games, an average of 264.5 yards per game) KWarner (19474 in 73 games, an average of 266.7 yards per game) So Culpepper is also the most productive QB in terms of yards from scrimmage in NFL history on a per game basis. Then compare his INTs to the aforementioned guys. Culpepper has 86 in 81 games, an average of 1.06 per game. Marino (1.04 per game) Favre (1.13 per game) PManning (1.015 per game) KWarner (1.07 per game) So Daunte is the most productive QB (on a per game basis) in NFL history in terms of both yards and TDs. His interception rate is comparable to or better than any of the guys that are even close (and they're not that close). His completion percentage of 64.4 is the second-best in NFL history. And that is not in a dink-and-dunk West Coast offense. It’s not terribly surprising, as he holds the single season NCAA record for completion percentage at 73.4%. That is with a vertical passing game. In 2004 he completed an incredible 17 of 34 passes thrown more than 31 yards from scrimmage in the air. And no, it was not because of jump balls to Moss -- Moss caught only 3 of them. Physically, he has a lot more size and speed than any QB should be allowed to have. He's the size of a DE and runs like a fullback. His rushing numbers are second only to Michael Vick among QBs. Below are my responses to the criticisms I hear from the Culpepper haters: The Knee It is legitimate to be concerned about the knee, but this is an area we all need to defer to the doctors on. They are saying he is well ahead of schedule and will play next year. The trade hinges on his passing a physical, so if it goes through, that means the Fins docs say he’s OK. The decision on a QB of the future should not hinge on whether he'll be at full strength at the beginning of this year (this goes for Brees too). I can't think of a single QB whose career was ended or derailed by a kneee injury. I’ve asked in several threads if anyone could think of a single on and nobody came forward with any. In recent years, there has been virtually 100% recovery from knee injuries, including RBs, WRs and CBs who are much more dependent on their speed and cutting ability than a QB (even a mobile one) is. For those positions, the difference between 4.4 speed and 4.6 speed may be difference between star and scrub. Any loss int he ability to plant and cut on a dime fundamentally changes who that player is. Nonetheless, guys like EJames, Jamal Lewis, McGahee, etc. have all come back as good as new. For a QB, even a mobile one, it is much less important. Even if Culpepper goes from a 4.7 40 guy to 4.8 or 4.9, it won't make a huge difference. When RBs are able to come back from hideous knee injuries, it seems like a stretch to say that Culpepper can't or won't. There is a long list of QBs who have played at a HOF level for years with “bad knees” – Marino, Namath, Elway, Stabler, etc. The Fumbles Yes, he does fumble a lot. However, even if you treat the fumbles as interceptions, his numbers are still great. A rushing attempt is akin to a completed pass, albeit usually a short one. They usually come on passing downs and are positive yardage plays. If you look at combined rushing and passing numbers and treat each rushing attempt as a pass attempt and a completion, each rushing TD as a passing TD, and each fumble as an interception, Culpepper's adjusted rating comes out to 92.6, which is a little below Payton Manning's adjusted career rating of 94.3, but is above Carson Palmer (90.9). Gus's 2005 adjusted rating is 69.9. Marino’s career adjusted rating is 86.7. People keep citing to the total fumbles numbers, as opposed to fumbles lost, which is really the relevant number. He's lost an average of about 5 fumbles per season, which is about 2-3 more than most other QBs. BTW, Gus fumbled 13 times last year and lost 4, but I have never heard anyone on this board bitching about that particular aspect of his game. Also, part of the reason Culpepper fumbles is that he runs with the ball, i.e., he actually gets tackled while holding the ball 100+ times per year. If the average RB had those carries instead of Culpepper, he'd fumble a few times too (Ronnie Brown had 4 fumbles in 239 touches and Ricky has 35 fumbles in approximately 2000 touches in his career). The Boat Give me a break. He is charged with getting a lap dance and touching the dancer's tushy. Are you such prudes that you find that to be outrageous conduct? Do you think no other NFL players get lap dances? Hell, Clinton Portis had a stripper pole and a bevy of strippers in his house. Do you really think the Fins players would be hesitant to follow his lead because he allegedly touched a stripper's tushy? The Moss Culpepper's great numbers are not because of Randy Moss -- any more than Montana/Young were products of Rice. Or any more than Manning is a product of Harrison. Almost every great QB has had some great WRs. In 2004, Mossed missed 3 games and was just a decoy in 2 others. In those 5 games, Culpepper completed 113 of 166 passes (68%) for 1179 yards, 9 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to a QB rating of 99. In other games, he was hurt and simply didn’t do much. For that season, if you exclude passes thrown to Moss, he completed 330 of 463 passes (71.3%), for 3950 yards and 26 TDs. Even if you assume that none of his INTs were on passes thrown to Moss, which is doubtful, his QB rating excluding Moss was 105.9. Moreover, Moss clearly didn't make Kerry Collins into the Pro Bowler this year, even though he was opposite other quality WRs. The 2005 INTs Culpepper had a very bad start to 2005. He had 8 picks in the first 2 games, but had 6 TDs and 4 INTs in the 4 games after that. He was playing for a new OC, with a new set of receivers and an OL that had lost its anchor, Pro Bowl center Matt Birk. The OL was really struggling -- he was sacked 31 times in just over 6 games. You can't disregard his career numbers based on 2 bad games at the start of the season. Even the best QBs will occasionally have a 3-4 INT game. The Playoffs True, Minnesota has not been a great team since he's been there, but they have consistently had one of the 5-6 worst defenses in the NFL. From 2000-04, the Vikes never had a defense that was better than 25th in the NFL. Even Marino had better defenses in the late 80s and early 90s. With a few exceptions, Minny had unremarkable running games during that time (especially if you exclude Culpepper's rushing numbers). Still, the Vikes were 39-41 during that time period, which is comparable to Marino's record from 1986-89 when the Fins defenses were bad (30-33). We all know that even a great QB cannot win with a bad defense. When he’s been in the playoffs, he’s 2-2. His career playoff numbers are pretty respectable -- 73/134, 980 yds, 8 TDs and 5 INTs (82.3 rating). He had one terrible game against the Giants in 2001, a mediocre one against the Eagles in 2004, and two very good ones against the Saints in '01 and the Packers in '04 (total of 36/60, 618 yds, 7 TDs, 0 INTs). The Money Daunte is due to make $2 million this year, less than half of what Gus is due to be paid. Brees will undoubtedly cost several times that amount. The 3 years after this one, Culpepper is due to make around $6 million per year, which isn't much for an upper echelon QB. Brees would have cost more. Some are offended that he reportedly asked for more money, but it isn't clear that he did. His agent did, and then got fired for it. The Vikes owner had publicly said that he would re-evaluate Daunte's contract after this past season, so it wouldn't have been unusual for Daunte to expect him to do that. The Backups Some people argue that the fact that his backups have had success in Minny means he is a product of the system. When they make this argument, they usually selectively ignore the numbers of his backups who did not play well. Even so, the reality is that a lot of QBs will do well in a good offensive system, with a decent OL and some talent around him. The Viking backups success is hardly unique. Take a look at the QB ratings of the following backups, with the starter in parentheses: Steve Young (Montana) 108.9 Steve Bono (Montana) 88.5 Jeff Kemp (Montana) 85.7 Scott Mitchell (Marino) 91.4 Craig Erickson (Marino) 86.3 Elvis Grbac (Young) 87.9 Jeff Garcia (Young) 89.9 Frank Reich (Kelly) 102.3 Jim Sorgi (Manning) 99.1 Matt Cassel (Brady) 89.4 Marc Bulger (Warner) 101.5 Trent Green (Warner) 101.8 Bernie Kosar (Aikman) 92.7 Rodney Peete (Aikman) 102.5 Jason Garrett (Aikman) 83.3 Billy Volek (McNair) 87.4 In addition to those, you have guys like Brooks, Brunell and Hasselbeck who looked good as backups to Favre and drew a lot in trades/FA. Same for Feeley behind McNabb. None of this means that Culpepper (or any of the QBs listed in parentheses above) are not great QBs. They are. Culpepper has put up incredible numbers and is a proven commodity. The Vikes improvement in the 2nd half of the season last year was not because Brad Johnson was better. It was because the OL, which was recovering from the loss of Matt Birk and a rookie at G, started to gel as the season went on. The OL gave up 29 sacks in the first 6 games. They gave up only 23 in the next 10 games. The other reason was that the defense improved dramatically in the second half of the season. In the first 7 games, the defense gave up 193 points, which is approximately 28 per game. In the next 9, they gave up 151 points, which comes out to an average of less than 17 per game. Gee, do you think a difference of 11 ppg allowed might make a difference in wins and losses? Intelligence First, and not that it is necessarily a true measure of intelligence, but Culpepper scored a 21 on the Wonderlic. This is better than Marino (14), McNabb (16), McNair (15), and a point less than Brett Favre (22). Obviously, the Wonderlic is not a foolproof indicator of the ability to understand NFL defenses. What are good indicators of the ability to make decisions and read defenses is performance on 3rd downs, when blitzed, and in the red zone. On 3rd downs, NFL teams basically know you are passing and the defenses are at their most creative to stop the pass. Performance on blitzes shows the QBs ability to make decisions under pressure and find the open man in a very short time. Performance in the red zone shows what he can do with a short field in critical situations. In 2004, Culpepper's performance on 3rd down and blitzes was phenomenal. On 3rd downs, he completed 93 of 134 (69.4%), for 1391 yards, 19 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to an absurd QB rating of 133.7. That year, on blitzes, he completed 101 of 159 (63.5%), for 1217, 15 TDs and 1 INT, which is a 115.7 rating. In the red zone, he completed 54 of 88 for 352 yards, 26 TDs and 2 INTs, for a rating of 158.2 (the maximum). These types of numbers simply are not possible if you can't read defenses and make good decisions. Do people think that every defense he faced was pure vanilla? Yes, last year he struggled, especially in those first 2 games. But his 2003 numbers in these categories are comparable to his 2004 numbers. 3rd down -- 79/121, 1054, 12, 3 (Rating: 115.5) Blitz -- 60/103, 785, 9, 4 (Rating: 95.3) Red Zone -- 23/51, 147, 14, 2 (Rating: 126.8) For comparison sake, Gus's numbers in these categories last year are: 3rd down -- 63/152, 813, 5, 5 (Rating: 56.2) Blitz -- 73/162, 866, 5, 4 (Rating: 61.9) Red Zone -- 28/65, 189, 12, 3 (Rating: 70.8) Remember, these are in essentially the same Linehan offense (which we say we are keeping). “Game Management” A lot of people talk about certain QBs being good game managers. I hear that a lot about Brees and some Gusketeers also like to claim that he was a good game manager. I think that, in most cases, that is just someone's way of pumping up a guy they like on the basis of some intangible that cannot be verified or disproven. Let's face it, with the exception of occasional audibles, the coaches call the plays. Most of what people refer to as game management is really a reflection of the plays called by the coaches, not anything the QB has done. That said, I think there is some QB "game management" in the way the guy plays on 3rd and 4th down. "Managing the game" basically boils down to how well the QB keeps the chains moving, which basically boils down to converting 3rd and 4th downs. Avoiding turnovers is another aspect of game management. I was only able to find stats for this for the past 2 seasons. Culpepper’s conversion rate on 3rd and 4th downs has been excellent. Over the last 2 years, he has converted 98/196 (50%). This is the same as Payton Manning (119 of 238), but better than Brees (121/264 – 45.8%) and Brady (122/270 – 45.1%). Gus supporters claim he was a good game manager last year, but he converted only 50/160 third and 4th downs last year, which comes out to 31.25%. These numbers do not include plays in which the QB ran for a 1st down on 3rd or 4th down. The Draft Pick Giving up a 2nd rounder is a small price to pay (it's not clear to me now whether it is 2006 or 2007). Either way, there will be no one in the draft this year or next who is a proven commodity with Culpepper’s talent level. Certainly no one in the 2nd round. The price for high draft pick QBs is around $50 million over 6 years, with more than $20 million of that guaranteed. Culpepper’s contract is much more cap friendly. Clearly, the Fins decided that Brees’ price tag was simply too high. Now stop crying about getting a 29-year old, physically dominant QB who has put up numbers over his 7 year career that compare favorably to the best who have ever played the position. 632518[/snapback] I'm just quoting this to mess with the display on Lori's phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 If the Fins could just somehow coax Cris Carter to come out of retirement....man! 632604[/snapback] Or if David Boston could've gotten off the roids...... man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCM Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Or if David Boston could've gotten off the roids...... man! 632609[/snapback] Well.....I think the problem was that he DID get off the Roids..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 All that space (and all those words) to tell us that Dante had some good years with the Vikings? I'll be sure to fax that over to Brad Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I'm still trying to find out why we are supposed to care about any of this? Who are we goign to talk about next, Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas? WHO CARES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 So Culpepper=Communist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 So Culpepper=Communist? 632626[/snapback] Culpepper+Atlantic Ocean+More big boats=Felon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I'm just quoting this to mess with the display on Lori's phone. 632608[/snapback] you trying to get on that sds list ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I hope you guys are bashing DC, because you're biased homers. If you don't think he is a solid NFL QB, and at times has been brilliant, you're kidding yourselves. I hope to god he sucks from here on out, but up until this point in his career, he's been a good QB. I'm glad you like your QB DCM. I would wish you luck, but I'd rather have sex with my sister, then wish anything but terrible things to happen to the Dolphins, in the standings. I hope you understand. Good post, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I'm just quoting this to mess with the display on Lori's phone. 632608[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Long Beach Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I hope you guys are bashing DC, because you're biased homers. If you don't think he is a solid NFL QB, and at times has been brilliant, you're kidding yourselves. I hope to god he sucks from here on out, but up until this point in his career, he's been a good QB. I'm glad you like your QB DCM. I would wish you luck, but I'd rather have sex with my sister, then wish anything but terrible things to happen to the Dolphins, in the standings. I hope you understand. Good post, btw. 632726[/snapback] Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millstone twnsp nj bills fan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 *snoring sounds can be heard filling the room* Ha, wha? Who... Oh, it's the fin fan. *snoring sounds resume* 632526[/snapback] Thank you! I fell asleep and knocked over my screen. I had to call 911 for a head wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzer32 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I didn't know Fake-Fat-Sunny cared about the Dolphins and DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I'll tell ya what I think....I think certain fin fans are feelign really insecure about bringing in a young, big money QB who had a crappy season last year, and who they fear will be nothing but a huge bust in Miami. So to help offset their insecurities - which are very well-founded, by the way - they have to go and dig up all sorts of numbers that give the illusion that Culpepper is somehow on the same level as guys like Favre, Montana, and Marino. PLEASE! As a Bills fan, I'm thankful that you ended up with Culpepper over Brees, cause Drew is the better QB. Miami sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 you trying to make that list to be cut 632581[/snapback] Have to make Cincy get his panties in a wad at least once a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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