How Do Folks Explain Peters Going Undrafted?

[Sound_n_Fury]

Undrafted stars: London Fletcher, Brian Moorman, Jeff Saturday, Jake Delhomme, Billy Volek, Priest Holmes, Antonio Gates, Drew Bennett, Rod Smith, Wayne Chrebet, Adewale Ogunleye, Pat Williams,  Adam Vinatieri and Mike Vanderjagt.

 

How do explain that?

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Exactly. How do you explain Pat Williams, a guy who just landed big bucks, let alone a player like Peters. Scouts make mistakes, players see the light, **** happens.

[CentralVaBills]

This is generally correct. The other thing to factor in here is that it takes two sides to make a deal.  My guess is that when the Bills cut him from their roster, they had kind words to say when the Turk came to visit and made anything from a suggestion of a possibility to a promise that as soon as he cleared waivers after being cut, he would be signed to the Bills PS and they drew as clear a map as they felt comfortable doing laying out a path for him that led from him being on the PS to the active roster.

 

My guess is that several teams came to Peters as soon as the Bills cut him from the roster with offers to go on their PS. However, Peters and his agent (s) made a judgment that their best chance of getting onto an active roster was to stay with the Bills.

 

It seems as if the move to activate him on the Bills roster was a defensive move on our part if he got a feeler or offer from another team that they had room to put him on their active roster (mandated for signing someone off a PS).  When the Bills activated Peters we did not seem to have a specific role for playing him.  It seemed to really surprise the Bills braintrust that he turned out to be such an unblockable demon on ST.

 

He attracted out interest because of his softhands and great skills and we used him as a TE, but I think they assigned him a tackles number to emphasize to him that learning blocking was actually the thing which was stopping him from being an NFL TE as he showed Remeirsma like receiving skills but couldn'y be relied upon to block to save his life.

 

This to me is why his actually becoming a credible LT is so impressive, because to my understanding it was not receiving that was the weak part of his game, it was blocking.

 

Perhaps it was both blocking and precise route running which were his failures. It would seem he would have to have multiple deficits to not make him worth project status given the athleticism and nose for the ball he has shown in games.

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Now he's an unblockable demon? LOL Are you kidding me?

 

So, the guy has no position, yet he's an unblockable demon. So, why with being "an unblockable demon", and so gifted physically, isn't he converted to a DE?

[CoachChuckDickerson]

He wasn't drafted because he was a huge, slow TE with average hands. Not much need for those in the nfl.

[inkman]

He wasn't drafted because he was a huge, slow TE with average hands. Not much need for those in the nfl.

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word

[CentralVaBills]

He wasn't drafted because he was a huge, slow TE with average hands. Not much need for those in the nfl.

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THANK YOU!

[rockpile]

On today's roster, free agents outnumber Buffalo drafted players 2:1

 

Of course course to keep things in perspective (why tilt the stats?) many of these FAs were drafted by other teams. About 22 players were 2005 free agents who came to the Bills to try and make it through camp.

 

One player was acquired as a trade, one was picked up off waivers.

 

Quick - name them!

[lawnboy1977]

He is being described as the greatest athlete that folks such as JMac have ever coached (and he coached Munoz) and being given singular similar praise by old hands in the NFL with the Bills.

 

There is also praise coming down that he has not made a single-mistake at LT this preseason.

 

My question is how did 32 NFL teams (including our Bills) with all their scouts, The Combine, and all the bucks dedicated to them making the perfect choice miss so badly in passing on this specimen 7 times+ in the draft?

 

My guesses are:

 

1. There is some personal foible which disqualified him as a draft pick in everyone's mind which I missed and if anyone knows or remembers this inquiring (or should I say enquiring( football fan would love to know.

 

2. He did register a near historic low on the Wonderlic test and like moost Americans NFL types can attribute more faith than it worth giving to numbers and tests when they actually do not do an accurate (or even good) job of predicting who will be a good football player (or whether someone will do well in college or a job for that matter).

 

3. There is a little bit of exaggeration going on here from the Bills braintrust as they seek to develop confidence in or around a player, seek to market their team to ticket-buyers and the media, and seek to promote their own ability or paper over their mistakes.

 

It will be interesting to see how this all adds up wih the results of Peters play (the only true measure in this game).

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He came out of college early because he needed to make some money and because of that he was considered "raw talent". Very unpolished and a lot of teams didnt want to waste a draft pick on him. Plus, most teams weren't sure how they could use him in the NFL.

 

Funny thing now about draft picks is that its alsmost guaranteed that if a guy is drafted, he's going to make the 53 man roster because a draft pick is considered more of an investment than a UFA.

[2003Contenders]

Peters could very well be a perfect example of how over-scouting sometimes gets in the way of teams making sound decisions in the draft. Remember that the draft is all about perceived value: not just the grade that the team has placed on a particular player.

 

For example, the Bills may have had Peters ranked ahead of some of the players that they wound up drafting in the late rounds -- but because they knew that those other players stood a good chance of being drafted elsewhere, they were inclined to invest a draft pick on such a player -- and wait until after the draft to take a stab at Peters.

 

The question remains, though: Why did Peters go undrafted? I think it was a combination of all of the following factors:

 

1. NFL teams were not sure what to do with him. He seemed too big (read slow) to play TE. And, while he was projected by many to play LT in the NFL, he had little or nor experience playing the position in school. Thus, he entered the league as a man without a position. Recall that the Bills didn't even know what to do with him -- and still haven't set on a specific role for him. Matt Jones looked to suffer that same fate -- until his eye popping combine workouts served to elevate his stock literally overnight.

 

2. Coming out of school, Peters was said to be quite raw. If you recall, last season when he was initially relegated to the practice squad, the word out of OBD was that he had plenty of potential, but was a long-term project. To a certain extent, the front office appears to still believe that, but his freakish abilities are so mouth-watering, that they had to find a way to make some use of them, even if just on Special Teams. This guy could turn into a 3-way player: special teams, spot duty at DE, and LT reserve.

 

3. We've made fun of the poor guy, even challenging his intellect because of his low test score. While it probably didn't play the deciding factor in his going undrafted -- SF's Julian Peterson scored even lower and he went in the 1st round -- it still likely played a role nonetheless. When taken together with the other factors -- it may have cemented his immediate fate. If teams felt that he was raw coming out of school -- and observed his low test score, they may have come to the conclusion that this guy, who would require A LOT of coaching, may not be the most coachable player in the world. Fortunately, our coaching staff felt secure enough to roll the dice -- and considering that he was an undrafted free agent, the risk was minimal.

 

 

Aside from Peters, let's not forget that both Jabri Greer and R Baker were both walk-ons as well. Greer, in particular, was thought by many to be a Day 1 draft pick.

[Bill from NYC]

Apparently you don't.  When JMac calls him the best LT prospect he's ever coached, it means a little more than the belief of your average NFL fan.  As was pointed out in another thread, for Peters to be able to hold-his-own against KGB after about a year TOTAL in time spent as a LT in his entire football lifetime, it shows the kid has skills.  Maybe he's not ready to start this year, but most likely by next season.  And his speed (4.87) isn't really all that fast for a TE, but it's incredible for a LT.

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The game is on at 4:00 PM, at which time I hope to be more prepared to answer the question posed by FFS, but right now, the answer seems to be clear....NFL professionals, including coaches, scouts, GMs and yes, even TD did not think that there was a great, nor even a slim chance that Peters would be a Left Tackle in the National Football League. Period.

 

TD selected Geisenger (sic?) in round 6, correct? He is a bulky OG, who probably lacks anything close to the agility that is required to play LT, right? At the same time time, he did not think enough of Peters to draft him at all. I think that if TD had even an inkling that Peters could step in at LT, he would have selected him at least in round 6, if not WAY earlier. It stands to reason, does it not?

 

I am as curious about Peters as I have been about any Bills first year player since RJ. Seriously, consider the long term impact of Peters even being (at some point) as good as Jennings! Now, imagine him even exceeding that level!!!

This would enable the team to go after other positions, ANY position on draft day and add depth, without having to use the resources required (usually an early 1st) to grab a good LT. We couldn't even get a LT at #4 when we broke the bank for Williams!

 

This entire scenario means a ton to our beloved franchise imo. I am glad that a respected man like McNally thinks the kid will be a good LT. We can't ask for much more at this point.

[Greybeard]

On today's roster, free agents outnumber Buffalo drafted players 2:1

 

Of course course to keep things in perspective (why tilt the stats?)  many of these FAs were drafted by other teams. About 22 players were 2005 free agents who came to the Bills to try and make it through camp.

 

One player was acquired as a trade, one was picked up off waivers.

 

Quick - name them! 

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The one picked off waivers was Jack Kemp.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

The game is on at 4:00 PM, at which time I hope to be more prepared to answer the question posed by FFS, but  right now, the answer seems to be clear....NFL professionals, including coaches, scouts, GMs and yes, even TD did not think that there was a great, nor even a slim chance that Peters would be a Left Tackle in the National Football League. Period.

 

TD selected Geisenger (sic?) in round 6, correct? He is a bulky OG, who probably lacks anything close to the agility that is required to play LT, right? At the same time time, he did not think enough of Peters to draft him at all. I think that if TD had even an inkling that Peters could step in at LT, he would have selected him at least in round 6, if not WAY earlier. It stands to reason, does it not?

 

I am as curious about Peters as I have been about any Bills first year player since RJ. Seriously, consider the long term impact of Peters even being (at some point) as good as Jennings! Now, imagine him even exceeding that level!!!

This would enable the team to go after other positions, ANY position on draft day and add depth, without having to use the resources required (usually an early 1st) to grab a good LT. We couldn't even get a LT at #4 when we broke the bank for Williams!

 

This entire scenario means a ton to our beloved franchise imo. I am glad that a respected man like McNally thinks the kid will be a good LT. We can't ask for much more at this point.

NO ONE thought Peters would make a good LT, Bill. If they did, he wouldn't have fallen out of the draft and into the laps of the Bills. I mean, as it stands right now, he's worth his weight in gold if for nothing more than playing ST's and being the mother of all wedge busters (MOAWB). Frankly I thought he had potential as an OL-sized TE who could help the OT chip a TE and go out for an outlet pass. Never did I think that LT was a viable position for a guy who NO past experience at LT, much less at the NFL level. But McNally seems to think he's got what it takes, and I've read that more than a few times, so it must be more than just blowing sunshine up our asses. Again he needs more time, but give his size, speed, athleticism, and quick feet, he has all the tools (intelligence is debatable since standardized IQ tests only tests traditionally accepted definitions of intelligence and are largely culturally biased) to not only succeed, but he a good one. We'll see, and if the Bills hit on this, it will be a huge coup for them.

[rockpile]

The one picked off waivers was Jack Kemp. 

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Best $100 Ralph ever spent.

[envirojeff]

Best $100 Ralph ever spent.

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Jeff

[jad1]

TD selected Geisenger (sic?) in round 6, correct? He is a bulky OG, who probably lacks anything close to the agility that is required to play LT, right? At the same time time, he did not think enough of Peters to draft him at all. I think that if TD had even an inkling that Peters could step in at LT, he would have selected him at least in round 6, if not WAY earlier. It stands to reason, does it not?

 

 

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The Bills probably had a pretty good feeling that Peters wouldn't be drafted, and were willing to take the risk that they could sign him as an UFA. If I remember correctly, they signed him the day after the draft.

 

Also, the Bills didn't have a 5th or 6th round pick last season. They selected McFarland and Freddie Smith in the 7th. Perhaps they felt that these guys wouldn't be around in FA if they passed them up.

[TC in St. Louis]

Today's draft is only 7 rounds, maybe 250 players. Not too long ago, they went 12 rounds.....remember House Ballard? History is filled with names of low round picks and free agents who had solid careers. Bart Star was a 26th rounder or something like that. Tasker wasn't drafted, was he? We picked him off Houston's waiver wire.

 

I remember reading that Peters had exceptional speed for a guy his size, and was really thrilled when the Bills picked him up the day after the draft.

 

He's not a starter, but he seems to be a special teams demon. That doesn't necessarily get you into the Pro Bowl. Let's see how he does this year, and next year, and the year after and all that.

[Mark Vader]

TC in St. Louis Posted Today, 03:17 PM

  Today's draft is only 7 rounds, maybe 250 players. Not too long ago, they went 12 rounds.....

D'OH, you beat me to it!!!

 

Had the draft been as long as it used to be, Peters more likely would have been drafted.

[Albany,n.y.]

These were my thoughts on Peters in 2004 & they sum up what a lot of NFL people were thinking on draft weekend.

 

"Jason Peters is getting too big to be anything other than a guy who fails at TE and the team tries to switch him to OL. He also has a questionable attitude that you don’t want with a guy whom you’ll be trying to change positions on."

 

The single digit Wonderlic on a guy being switched to a position that averages one of the higher Wonderlics didn't help him either.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

i'm not sure i understand your run-on, but one thing is clear:  you failed to recognize my sarcasm.  i'm the one bashing everyone for calling peters stupid on the basis of that test.

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Actually, I totally recognized your sarcasm. I responded in this way because YOU seemed to fail to recognize that I have a moderate view toward Peters. I think he is a very talented player who one day MAY be the answer for the Bills at LT.

 

However, right now has less than a year's time focused on learning the tackle and OL job and regardless of how great an athlete one is and even if one were a Rodes Scholar it seems pretty questionable to me that the team will or should entrust the blindside of our heavy QB investment into someone with that resume and history.

 

I would happily be wrong if it is the case, but this jump in performance and responsibility simply seems extremely unlikely to me.

 

Perhaps your misconception of my views stems from an over-focus on me refering to his being an enchilada short of a combination plate. This "indictment" from me does not mean I think he is a bad person or even that he is stupid. I meant that like Trey Teague when he first took the center job he has trouble multi-tasking. For Teague, this meant that I think he is a good enough athlete and smart guy to do the line calls, to do a good exchange with the QB, or to deal with the ever larger DTs breathing down his neck. However, when asked to do all three of these things at the same time, he could handle two and ended up planted on his butt too often.

 

Peters also strikes me as having a similar issue which in consultant talk is multi-tasking but which on TSW I also refer to with Mexican food analogy. His multi-tasking problem seems to be a bit more basic than the higher-level football problems of Teague. When asked as a pro to use his great athletic gifts of size, speed and soft hands, and also run crisp routes, and also hear and respond to the line calls he simply could not do all three.

 

His Wonderlic score is instructive in that rather than the Teague solution of simply more practice doing multiple things, Peters really needed to have the task simplified for him to do it well. The Bills braintrust decided to remove the receiving elements from his responsibilities and it seems as if having a simpler set of tasks is working well for him as he learns the LT task.

 

The Wonderlic Test results like many statistically based items is not conclusive of much but is a reasonable indicator of a few things. As pointed out, one of the most difficult things about the test is the time limit and the type of questions within it are not so difficult but they do test ones ability to take on multiple simple tasks under heavy pressure and time constraints.

 

Torturing the allegory while Peters can do fine fixing up an enchilada, or fixing up a burrito, or fixing up a taco, putting them all together at the same time in a combination platter is a more difficult thing for him to well.

 

Just as my respone fails to understand your sarcasm, your response fails to understand my general approach and assessment of Peters. This is not problem as this is merely the Internet and with my unedited run-ons I do fail to make all points clearly.

 

However, if you want a true sense of what I think of Peters, I view myself as having a moderate view between those who seem to think he is ready to guard JPs blindside this year (I doubt this risk is sensible) ahd those who have a view stated by CentralVABills...that all the glowing reports about Peters are simply hype/

 

i think the blocked punt and TD he pulled off last year show that he is more than hype, but the difficulty of even playing in the NFL, much less being trusted to start at a position guarding JPs blindside with even a bit over a year training sounds like wishful thinking to me.

[Lori]

These were my thoughts on Peters in 2004 & they sum up what a lot of NFL people were thinking on draft weekend.

 

"Jason Peters is getting too big to be anything other than a guy who fails at TE and the team tries to switch him to OL.  He also has a questionable attitude that you don’t want with a guy whom you’ll be trying to change positions on."

 

The single digit Wonderlic on a guy being switched to a position that averages one of the higher Wonderlics didn't help him either.

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...but from the sounds of things, that knock on his attitude may have been off the mark. I understand he racked up almost as many visits to the fieldhouse for offseason workouts/film sessions as JP did.

[Albany,n.y.]

The combination of weight problems & getting suspended for a game during his college days caused people to question his attitude. The best stuff I found to support that was PFW's analysis of him. It included:

"...in '02, missing the Mississippi State game because of disciplinary action. ...Poor attitude. Does not take to coaching well. Questionable character. ...Poor character will knock him off some teams' draft boards."

 

I wish I could find more but PFW's take seemed to be in line with those who believed he had a poor attitude.