John from Riverside Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Good post. I'm going to be a little bit more critical and say he should be ready to go by the Houston game (evaluate that is). Home opener, Throwbacks the whole nine yards. He will be ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Good post. I'm going to be a little bit more critical and say he should be ready to go by the Houston game (evaluate that is). Home opener, Throwbacks the whole nine yards. He will be ready. 401133[/snapback] I think one thing that will hurt this team is to come down on JPL too hard when he does make a mistake, which he will. If the media and the fans destroy his confidence.. well, hello Ryan Leaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Actually, when you consider that Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions as a rookie, a final evaluation of Losman is probably won't be possible for a couple of years. No one wants to hear that, but its the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I think one thing that will hurt this team is to come down on JPL too hard when he does make a mistake, which he will. If the media and the fans destroy his confidence.. well, hello Ryan Leaf. 401135[/snapback] Ryan Leaf lol.. Remember that dude yelling at the reporter in the locker romm with Seau breaking it up. "JUST LEAVE ME ALONE ALRIGHT"! What a weiner. I think that JP will be fine and the thing with preseason is that we only see about 1/10000 th of the playbook and I'm sure they have plenty up their sleeves. I think JP is tough mentally, physically and emotionally things that alot of people overlook. He just has to find his comfort level, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I think you meant Woodbury, not Goldsberry. But good points otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation....... 401131[/snapback] I also think you mean Woodbury not Goldsberry, but outside of this I agree with your assessment. I also agree that it will probably take the preseason and maybe 3 regular season games to draw some conclusion to be acted upon (unless injury dictates action for us). Yet my conclusion may differ from yours in while I agree that JP is cetainly the Bills QB of the future. in terms of the game the future is now for me. If (and I mean IF) TC/MM make a judgment that we have a better chance getting a W sitting JP down and going with Holcomb at some point I say do this. In the end if JP is such a weak personality that he is going to fold up an lose confidence if he gets benched then he does in fact have the depth and personality (or lack tehreof) of A Ryan Leaf and the quicker we move on the better. I think he took well to some attitude adjustment which MM did last year. he admitted that he was not prepared to play when MM suddenly threw him to the sharks mopping up against NE and he took the lesson that he must prepare and that anytime you put on the uniform you must be prepared to play. I hope the Bills manage JPs development with even more success than Pitts achieved with RoboQB last year. However, though JP is going to need time to learn the game. results are the ultimate measure. If we start out as badly as last year we have seem that even with an 0-4 start its not to late to be in the hunt for a playoff spot in game 16. The thing which most speaks in JPs favor is that one can achieve this even with adequate (at best) QB play, but if the situation dictates it I'm fine with JP sitting down and learning if we feel Holcomb provides a better shot at a W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 One other thing I forgot to mention..... Please everyone should feel free to criticize or reserve judgement as they see fit.....but in the end I also agree that results are the most important thing..... There is a flipside to that arguement to.....if JPL is struggling....and we are still WINNING.......then I think everyone should also keep the end result in mind. Because that could very well be what is in store for us the beginning of the season...... I can very well envision some games where JPL will throw an untimely pick......but will also lead us to some scores.....the defense will win it in the end.....and we come out with the W with JPL not looking so hot..... What I take solice in is the fact that while I expect it to happen like this early....I think JPL will get better every week.....and by the time it comes time for playoffs.....JPL will have worked out some of the kinks.... My goal for this team this year is to make the playoffs...which we have NOT DONE IN YEARS we have had bad QB play for a while so we should be used to it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLO Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 he's a playmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb63 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 One other thing I forgot to mention..... Please everyone should feel free to criticize or reserve judgement as they see fit.....but in the end I also agree that results are the most important thing..... There is a flipside to that arguement to.....if JPL is struggling....and we are still WINNING.......then I think everyone should also keep the end result in mind. Because that could very well be what is in store for us the beginning of the season...... I can very well envision some games where JPL will throw an untimely pick......but will also lead us to some scores.....the defense will win it in the end.....and we come out with the W with JPL not looking so hot..... What I take solice in is the fact that while I expect it to happen like this early....I think JPL will get better every week.....and by the time it comes time for playoffs.....JPL will have worked out some of the kinks.... My goal for this team this year is to make the playoffs...which we have NOT DONE IN YEARS we have had bad QB play for a while so we should be used to it...... 401185[/snapback] I think your comments are right on the mark. To expect JP to come out on fire and burn the barn down right away is not reallistic and unlikely. I saw some good things out of JP in friday nights scrimmage, and some not so good.That what I expected. I think that he showed enough that he will eventually be able to bring the barn down with fire and brimestone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 good post John What I want to see is steady improvement. The fun part of this is, IMO, JP is already doing better than I expected he would. Last yr, vs Denver, and in his VERY few appearances, he was able to move the team (not every time but BETTER than every other time). Friday, he had way more good moments than bad and was able to turn several 3rd downs into 1st downs with his arm. Next up: The colts. Steady improvement JP, Steady. -RnJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) 401131[/snapback] I have no idea if that would have been completed or not had Evans not been held. I could not possibly tell from watching it on TV what would have happened. You could also pose the question: if the defender had held on to that pick JP threw and went the distance as clearly he would have but for the drop, would the evening have been a disaster for JP? Back to the Evans play, there were referees there and the hold looked obvious and yet was not called. Why? Two possibilities: 1. They flat out missed the call. 2. The ball was so badly overthrown that the ref, rightly or wrongly, determined it to be "uncatchable". From my vantage point on the couch, I couldn't tell. I can't see alternative realities very well either so I can't say the pass would have been on the money, short, high, left, right or dropped. I do know the hold wasn't dramatic, just the typical back arm around the waist. Lee wasn't even able to get a hand on the ball. Does that mean it was way off? Don't know but by the same token, there is just as little evidence that the pass would have been completed but for the hold. The fate of that play, I'm afraid, will remain a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. He had a decent outing, nothing to rave about or to weep about. It was neither the best of times, nor the worst of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I have no idea if that would have been completed or not had Evans not been held. I could not possibly tell from watching it on TV what would have happened. You could also pose the question: if the defender had held on to that pick JP threw and went the distance as clearly he would have but for the drop, would the evening have been a disaster for JP? Back to the Evans play, there were referees there and the hold looked obvious and yet was not called. Why? Two possibilities: 1. They flat out missed the call. 2. The ball was so badly overthrown that the ref, rightly or wrongly, determined it to be "uncatchable". From my vantage point on the couch, I couldn't tell. I can't see alternative realities very well either so I can't say the pass would have been on the money, short, high, left, right or dropped. I do know the hold wasn't dramatic, just the typical back arm around the waist. Lee wasn't even able to get a hand on the ball. Does that mean it was way off? Don't know but by the same token, there is just as little evidence that the pass would have been completed but for the hold. The fate of that play, I'm afraid, will remain a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. He had a decent outing, nothing to rave about or to weep about. It was neither the best of times, nor the worst of times. That play was at the very least holding, which is 5 yards, 1st down, and no charged incompletion. Probably wouldn't have been called PI because the holding slowed Lee down and thus made him getting to the ball less likely. But the point with calling it an "almost TD" is to counter those who said he "almost" had an INT. We'll never know, but there WAS illegal contact on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I just got through watching the 1st 3 series on Offense and I gotta say I'm very happy with how JP played. He got rid of the ball ontime, made plays on 3rd down, used his feet to get out of trouble, and threw the ball well for the most part. As someone else already stated somewhere I can see 2 facets of QB play that didn't even exist here since since Flutie (sans the weak arm). Play design is going to be so much more wide open now and defenses are really going to have to stay honest because JP can break contain. To those who could somehow rate his scrimmage performance as a negative overall, I'm not so sure you were watching the same game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I'd be shocked if people actual expect JP to be great right away. Like so many young QB, we have to face the fact that he is gonna play like crap from time to time. he will throw the ball where he shouldn't, and make dump mistakes. It's part of learning how to play that position against players faster than we can imagine. However, we need to look and see if he is not repeating the same mistakes. If he can progress, week to week and learn from his mistakes then we should stick with him, winning or losing. I think we do him more damage if we pull him but that why the coach make tons of money. Furthermore, the season's success doesn't rest on his shoulders, it rests in the hands of everyone working together as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 To those who could somehow rate his scrimmage performance as a negative overall, I'm not so sure you were watching the same game. It largely depends on your preconceptions of JP. Those who don't/didn't like him, will focus more on the negative. But looking at objective measures like a 60% completion percentage, no sacks, moving well in the pocket, and a few mental mistakes that didn't end up hurting the team and are learning points, you can't say he "struggled" or "looked bad." Sure there's room for improvement since he missed 4 passes and almost got picked, but at this early stage, that's like expecting him to be Montana right out of the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zona Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation....... 401131[/snapback] How DARE you be an optimist! You cant come in here and talk about giving a guy a chance. What are you thinking? For the record, I am willing to give the guy a couple years to learn the job. before making a decision. However, I think we will know well before that. I am on record here, making big predictions about JP's future in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 That play was at the very least holding, which is 5 yards, 1st down, and no charged incompletion. Probably wouldn't have been called PI because the holding slowed Lee down and thus made him getting to the ball less likely. But the point with calling it an "almost TD" is to counter those who said he "almost" had an INT. We'll never know, but there WAS illegal contact on that play. 401264[/snapback] Sure there was illegal contact but I don't see that as evidence of JP's coming greatness anymore than I see that pick he almost threw as reason enough to cancel my season tickets. I think its holding if it occurs before the ball is thrown and if the contact happens while it is in the air, it is PI. This occurred while the ball was in the air so my understanding is that it would be PI unless it was uncatchable or contact that was "incidental" though I think they have moved away from that "incidental" distinction in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 It largely depends on your preconceptions of JP. Those who don't/didn't like him, will focus more on the negative. But looking at objective measures like a 60% completion percentage, no sacks, moving well in the pocket, and a few mental mistakes that didn't end up hurting the team and are learning points, you can't say he "struggled" or "looked bad." Sure there's room for improvement since he missed 4 passes and almost got picked, but at this early stage, that's like expecting him to be Montana right out of the gate. 401271[/snapback] I wouldn't give him credit for "making no mistakes that hurt the team" based on a defender dropping an easy pick that would have been six points the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eventualchamps Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I just got through watching the 1st 3 series on Offense and I gotta say I'm very happy with how JP played. He got rid of the ball ontime, made plays on 3rd down, used his feet to get out of trouble, and threw the ball well for the most part. As someone else already stated somewhere I can see 2 facets of QB play that didn't even exist here since since Flutie (sans the weak arm). Play design is going to be so much more wide open now and defenses are really going to have to stay honest because JP can break contain. To those who could somehow rate his scrimmage performance as a negative overall, I'm not so sure you were watching the same game. 401265[/snapback] I couldn't agree more. I just watched his play again and he did not miss a single pass in that first series. His only misques that I saw were: 1 underthrown pass, 1 overthrown pass and a pass that almost got picked. He did have one incompletion that would have been pass interference (the GB defender was draped all over him - although the announcer said that it was OK because he wasn't holding his jersey ). The pass where he tried to hit Josh in the endzone - guaranteed that if it was a regular season game and he saw that much green open in front of him....he would have ran it in. His play fakes were excellent as well. Sorry to the naysayers but his performance was good to very good. As a matter of fact, if we are going to look at the other QB performances in preseason so far, he's doing better than Peyton and Michael Vick. If he improves even slightly in the next few games, he will be more than ready for the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 John, I'd agree with you... but if my grandma was under center in a Bills uniform you'd gush about her too. - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation....... 401131[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER07 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I think one thing that will hurt this team is to come down on JPL too hard when he does make a mistake, which he will. If the media and the fans destroy his confidence.. well, hello Ryan Leaf. 401135[/snapback] Come on Dude, be real. Losman is already better off than Ryan Leaf in all departments. He conducts himself like a gentleman, he is more athletic, and has worked harder in the last six months than Leaf did in two years. The media can not destroy a strong man's confidence, neither can fickle fans. He knows, we know, and the Bills FO knows he will make plenty of mistakes this year. Everyone needs to stop with this speculation on his abilities to play and lead after only two weeks of camp and one scrimmage, or at least the negative speculation. Get behind him 100% and realize he is human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Sure there was illegal contact but I don't see that as evidence of JP's coming greatness anymore than I see that pick he almost threw as reason enough to cancel my season tickets. The almost INT was just that, almost. The illegal contact on the play was real. I'm saying that if you want to call it an almost INT, then it was an almost TD on that other play. Nothing about his impending greatness either, just that throwing for 60% and not getting sacked is NOT "iffy," "bad," much less "terrible." I think its holding if it occurs before the ball is thrown and if the contact happens while it is in the air, it is PI. This occurred while the ball was in the air so my understanding is that it would be PI unless it was uncatchable or contact that was "incidental" though I think they have moved away from that "incidental" distinction in recent years. Put it this way, a flag SHOULD have been thrown because the defender had his arm around Lee's waist, and that's illegal. Whether it was holding versus PI is a judgement call on the refs, but it's not a matter of saying that since it happened while the ball was in the air, it's PI, but since it looked uncatchable, it wasn't PI. Especially now with the re-emphasis on DB's mugging WR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 The almost INT was just that, almost. The illegal contact on the play was real. I'm saying that if you want to call it an almost INT, then it was an almost TD on that other play. Nothing about his impending greatness either, just that throwing for 60% and not getting sacked is NOT "iffy," "bad," much less "terrible." Put it this way, a flag SHOULD have been thrown because the defender had his arm around Lee's waist, and that's illegal. Whether it was holding versus PI is a judgement call on the refs, but it's not a matter of saying that since it happened while the ball was in the air, it's PI, but since it looked uncatchable, it wasn't PI. Especially now with the re-emphasis on DB's mugging WR's. 401374[/snapback] I don't think either of us knows why the call was not made. I do think the referee has the option of not calling PI when, in his judgment the pass was not catchable. That may have changed but last I knew, they can do that. I think that to assume JP would have thrown a TD had it not been for the interference, you would have to assume that the pass was on target and we don't know that it was. You also have to assume that Lee would make the catch and that he would not have been tackled. That pick was a pick if the guy hadn't dropped it when it was right in his hands. So I think he screwed up there no matter how you slice it. Believe me, in the film room I don't think the coaches are going to run that play and say "way to make him drop it JP". He made a mistake, he knows it, the coaches know it, the announcers know it, the team knows it, we all know it. I don't think it was that big a deal but you seem to find it necessary to excuse it or minimize it somehow. For my part, I am not faulting him at all or even downgrading him because of the result of the play with Evans. On the other hand, there is just no question in my mind that on that near pick, he was staring at the receiver right from the snap and because he did, the pass was read big time by the defender. He threw the ball anyway meaning he failed to see the defender right there and failed to realize that he had been staring at the guy tipping the play to begin with. It isn't the end of the world or anything, it is just a fact that he blew that play about as bad as it can be blown. It is a legitimate criticsm of his performance in that scrimmage. He definitely did some good things, no doubt, and you are right that for anyone to get too negative is just crazy but at the same time, he made some mistakes and that near pick was simply an awful play. I am prepared to see him make quite a few more of those as he develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I don't think either of us knows why the call was not made. I do think the referee has the option of not calling PI when, in his judgment the pass was not catchable. That may have changed but last I knew, they can do that. I think that to assume JP would have thrown a TD had it not been for the interference, you would have to assume that the pass was on target and we don't know that it was. You also have to assume that Lee would make the catch and that he would not have been tackled. That pick was a pick if the guy hadn't dropped it when it was right in his hands. So I think he screwed up there no matter how you slice it. Believe me, in the film room I don't think the coaches are going to run that play and say "way to make him drop it JP". He made a mistake, he knows it, the coaches know it, the announcers know it, the team knows it, we all know it. I don't think it was that big a deal but you seem to find it necessary to excuse it or minimize it somehow. For my part, I am not faulting him at all or even downgrading him because of the result of the play with Evans. On the other hand, there is just no question in my mind that on that near pick, he was staring at the receiver right from the snap and because he did, the pass was read big time by the defender. He threw the ball anyway meaning he failed to see the defender right there and failed to realize that he had been staring at the guy tipping the play to begin with. It isn't the end of the world or anything, it is just a fact that he blew that play about as bad as it can be blown. It is a legitimate criticsm of his performance in that scrimmage. He definitely did some good things, no doubt, and you are right that for anyone to get too negative is just crazy but at the same time, he made some mistakes and that near pick was simply an awful play. I am prepared to see him make quite a few more of those as he develops. I've never said that almost INT was a good play. Just that it didn't hurt him and if anything taught him a lesson early-on in his young career. And since he's supposedly a fast learner, he won't make that same mistake again when it really counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation....... 401131[/snapback] I will hold off judgement until game 6 of the regular season. I know he won't lead us into the playoffs. He just has to be the caretaker of the offense and make zero mistakes--then we're in. JP is still a rookie after all but alot of board members will take a dump on him if he doesn't take us to the SB! That's foolish. As it stands right now, JP is not better than Jimbo and it's ludicrous to expect that out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 One other thing I forgot to mention..... Please everyone should feel free to criticize or reserve judgement as they see fit.....but in the end I also agree that results are the most important thing..... There is a flipside to that arguement to.....if JPL is struggling....and we are still WINNING.......then I think everyone should also keep the end result in mind. Because that could very well be what is in store for us the beginning of the season...... I can very well envision some games where JPL will throw an untimely pick......but will also lead us to some scores.....the defense will win it in the end.....and we come out with the W with JPL not looking so hot..... What I take solice in is the fact that while I expect it to happen like this early....I think JPL will get better every week.....and by the time it comes time for playoffs.....JPL will have worked out some of the kinks.... My goal for this team this year is to make the playoffs...which we have NOT DONE IN YEARS we have had bad QB play for a while so we should be used to it...... 401185[/snapback] I agree with you about results determining for the most part his fate as a starter. I think he starts and remains starter unless we lose a bunch of games AND his play can be fairly directly sited as the reason for those losses. The most likely scenario (which I hope never happens again) for the unlikely occurence that he gets benched is that he gets hurt or nicked badly. There is a firm example of MM staying the course at QB even in the face of bad results of his keeping Bledsoe as the guy even after an 0-4 start (true there were few and no alternatives as Matthews was a the only other answer and he was a non-answer for us. However, there was not even a peep of looking at the waiver wire or assessing Matthews and I suspect even with an 0-4 start Losman starts game 5 anyway. I think one of the ironies is that the likelihood for JP playing is that as he learns the game his stats will probably be fairly Bledsoe like in terms of results. Just as the correct thing for MM to do in the face of Bledsoe's stats and play at 0-4 or 1-5 was to stick with the inadequate QB we had. I expect once the regular season begins JP will at least have a series of learning hiccups and actually will be reasonably judged inadequate as an NFL QB in 05, but given what I have seen from MM, TC, April and Gray the team can produce a winning record even with JP being inadequate as a QB while he learns the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Actually, when you consider that Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions as a rookie, a final evaluation of Losman is probably won't be possible for a couple of years. No one wants to hear that, but its the truth. 401137[/snapback] Yes, it certainly is the truth. I like the kid, but imo it would be something of a miracle if JP, on opening day, is ready to lead the Bills to a 10 win season. Could it happen? Yes, but it is anything but a given. All we can do is support this kid and hope for the best. If he doesn't work out, it will NOT be because he didn't work hard enough. In that sense, JP has already "won me over." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBXBILLSFAN Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Good God, I can't believe how negative some people are after what was actually a very nice debut by JP. This "Let's bring in Holcomb" nonsense is absolutely ludicrous. I guess the Hot Pockets generation wouldn't be content with anything less than 15 of 15 for 300 yards and 2 TD passes in his 2 series. It was a scrimmage after less than one week of camp, folks. Why doesn't the lynch mob just unsaddle their horses, put away their rope, go home, and relax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30dive Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 So the experts are saying that JP was "iffy", not that good, lucky to have the backs, recievers, D and special teams around him. He was "average", I'll take that, I'll take the fact that he outperformed a Hall of Fame QB, he actualy ran a pretty good offense, and most importantly he "looked" like a leader. From where I sat, he threw only one really bad pass that should have been 6 for the Pack; and yes he could've tucked the ball in the red-zone and scored six himself. When the season starts, and he has four pre-season games under his belt he will have conditioned himself to make that choice, however, on Friday all he is hearing is "pass, pass, pass, avoid running with the ball and look for the receiver. Had he tucked it and ran for six, all the "experts" would be going on about how JP can't do that, "he has to look for the receiver, he is not a Tulane anymore." All in all not a bad performance by JP. Average at best you say...average at worst I say. Peters may very well be the starting LT this season. He once again looked very good for a TE from Arkansas. His size, smarts, youth and the coaching he is getting make him a good bet for a long career protecting JP's backside. Off to Indy, if I can say the same about JP next week, I think things will be just fine at One Bills Drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 The only "experts" I've heard about who have said JP didn't look good/promising are Clayton and Kiper, both guys who never played football and who don't have near the clout of someone like Dan Reeves. And again based on what I saw and his stats, how anyone can say he didn't look good/promising is beyond me! But hey, that's JUST me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 His size, smarts, youth and the coaching he is getting make him a good bet for a long career protecting JP's backside. 401806[/snapback] I'm open to the idea that Peters is smart, and has some oher reason (semi-literate?) he scores in the single digits on his Wonderlic test. So long as he has the street smarts to do what it takes in the trenches.... At very least, he's fun to watch. He does seem to be picking up his new role quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 My expectations for Losman are extremely low. That is not an indictment of his abilities but rather an indictment of his predecessor. I don't want to make this a bash Bledsoe thread, but I truly believe Shane Matthews could have went 9-7 last year with that team. As long as Losman doesn't turn the ball over I will be happy. He has all the tools to keep defenses honest. If he can keep the turnovers down, the Bills will have a better offense because it will be less predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Losman will take his lumps. He's young and inexperienced at the NFL level. I'd be more worried if he has a similar year to Roethlisberger last year (set the world on fire through most of the season, then play very badly in the playoffs, ultimately costing your team its best shot at a Super Bowl, perhaps for years to come). Big Ben is looking squarely at a HUGE sophomore jinx season. I just want JP to be consistent, to play hard, and not try to win games all by himself. He's not there...yet. Hand the ball to Willis and make smart play-action passes and adjustments on the run. JP can already run better than Big Ben, so he's got an advantage there. But I'm not comparing the two QB's. For those of you looking for that Big-Ben type season...forget it. The Bills aren't going 15-1 this year. I'd be happy with 10-6 and a wildcard, which they are perfectly capable of doing. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Amen...... Reports were that JP was smiling ear to ear. Coaches were happy.......He definitely did not suck. First game just happened to be in front of 60,000 on the road vs his idol (Favre). JP more than held his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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