Bills Utter Collapse-- Jim Kubiak BN

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills would likely have ANNIHILATED the Bengals at home in the 2021 season. The Bengals barely beat a bad Raiders team, somehow beat the Titans despite being outplayed, and were on their way to being utterly blown out by the Chiefs until Patrick Mahomes had the worst half and OT of his career — yips-like, even. The Bengals’ o-line was awful, their D was worse in 2021 than 2022, and the Bills’ offense at that point was unstoppable. I truly believe they would have won by 20 or so points and then beaten a decent Rams team in the SB (and bear in mind that the Bills blew out the Rams in LA in their very next game after the SB - the 2022 season opener). That Bills offense in the postseason that year was playing probably the best stretch of offense in franchise history.

Yup for me 2021 was the year we let it slip

[Gunsgoodtime]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Beane AND McDermott have been here long enough, with the game samples, to determine their weaknesses and strengths. We can still disagree, but we here can MOSTLY agree:

 

Strengths

- Can identify quality QB

- Can identify quality RB

- Can build a quality OL

 

Weaknesses

- Terrible scouting for defense. Cannot build defense with terrible scouting, brahs.

- Terrible scouting for WR. It's nonexistent. However, Beane can identify good WR examining other NFL teams (LOL).

 

Kryptonite

- McDermott cannot coach defense. When the playoffs arrive, he becomes a mental midget.

 

What these old men pundits all over Youtube don't realize (and didn't mention) that Beane and McDermott wasted Josh Allen's years after 13 Seconds. Also, we're not reaching AFC Title game this season. Firing McDermott is a bit extreme? LOL don't make us laugh. Coaches are fired all the time. McD is no exception. What makes him so special to have a lifetime contract?

 

- McDermott should be fired first, before Beane, once this season ends.

- Open up our minds to welcoming back Daboll as OC.

 

Devil's Advocate:

If we get rid of Beane, we're probably doomed at o-line building. Please observe what happened with Andrew Luck and Joe Burrow. When a team doesn't have a good o-line then that's the result.

Beane has got to go too.  You are just assuming the next gm can't put together a line, we already have a decent one for them to start with

[Haslett_Stomp]

I haven't read most of the posts in this thread and apologize if this has been already posted.  Josh has the same look and demeanor in both the games and post game interviews where he has recently struggled that he did in the final days of Dorsey's tenure.  Time for a change.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Freak-O said:

A top 3 player only playing at a top 10 level means he’s underperforming. We need him to play like one of the three best QB’s in the league for this team to be great. 

If we need him to always play like a top 3 guy to win then Bean/McD have failed to construct the right roster.

 

When people say Allen is a top 3 QB it doesn't mean that in every game and in every season he will be a top 3 guy.  That ignores the reality that there is variation in every human performance.  What being a top 3 QB means is that over time and in Allen's case the last 6 seasons including this one, Allen has AVERAGED out to be a top 3 QB. Last season he was #1 this season he may end up at 6 or 7.

 

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

Just now, Haslett_Stomp said:

I haven't read most of the posts in this thread and apologize if this has been already posted.  Josh has the same look and demeanor in both the games and post game interviews where he has recently struggled that he did in the final days of Dorsey's tenure.  Time for a change.

there isn’t really anyone to promote this time. If change happens it will be end of season most likely. Don’t forget that this is actually the offensive style McD has wanted since he got here. 

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

If we need him to always play like a top 3 guy to win then Bean/McD have failed to construct the right roster.

 

When people say Allen is a top 3 QB it doesn't mean that in every game and in every season he will be a top 3 guy.  That ignores the reality that there is variation in every human performance.  What being a top 3 QB means is that over time and in Allen's case the last 6 seasons including this one, Allen has AVERAGED out to be a top 3 QB. Last season he was #1 this season he may end up at 6 or 7.

 

 

 

 

 

I think people forget how bad Mahomes has looked with a bad supporting cast too. 

[T.E.]

19 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills would likely have ANNIHILATED the Bengals at home in the 2021 season. The Bengals barely beat a bad Raiders team, somehow beat the Titans despite being outplayed, and were on their way to being utterly blown out by the Chiefs until Patrick Mahomes had the worst half and OT of his career — yips-like, even. The Bengals’ o-line was awful, their D was worse in 2021 than 2022, and the Bills’ offense at that point was unstoppable. I truly believe they would have won by 20 or so points and then beaten a decent Rams team in the SB (and bear in mind that the Bills blew out the Rams in LA in their very next game after the SB - the 2022 season opener). That Bills offense in the postseason that year was playing probably the best stretch of offense in franchise history.

It's really sad to look back on. That was the year. Everything had fallen into place. They were peaking at the right time.

 

All lost because our coaching staff didn’t understand that a touchback doesn't run any time off the clock. Or that a team with three timeouts doesn't need to use the sidelines. I will go to my grave believing that McDermott knowingly ceded a field goal attempt because he preferred that to risking a long pass to Hill. It's just disgusting to think about the overall incompetence and cowardice.

Edited 10 hours ago by T.E.

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No disrespect, but since when do "season" stats indicate his level of play in a specific game?  3rd and 10 - if Allen throws a 4 yard completion resulting in us punting, the stat sheet will show a completion, what it wont show is the wide open guy 12 yards down field he did not throw to that would have converted a first down.  I am not using a specific example, I am showing one of a hundred ways just looking at some season stats doesn't show the issues.

 

Stat sheet doesnt show when he has bailed on a clean pocket, doesn't show when he made a poor decision, doesn't show when he had someone open he didn't see, doesn't show how bad of a decision the INT was or throw it was, etc etc.  

 

So no disrespect, and I get where you are coming from, but there is nothing on the stat sheet to refute how poorly Allen played against Miami and in patches in all 3 of our losses.  

And I can quote a much longer list where Allen has had exceptional plays this season.  But what's the point?  

 

And for the record I took your Allen is "playing poorly" comment to be for the whole season not just the Miami game. 

 

BTW, which QB this season hasn't had a couple of clunkers?  

 

Again, Allen is on pace for a 4700 total yards; 41 total TD's with only 13 total TO's.  That's a solid season and not a string of 4 yard pass completions.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

there isn’t really anyone to promote this time. If change happens it will be end of season most likely. Don’t forget that this is actually the offensive style McD has wanted since he got here. 

 

I think people forget how bad Mahomes has looked with a bad supporting cast too. 

It is almost universally believed that Mahomes has been the best QB over the last 8 years. At the same time he has barely been a top 10 QB in a couple of those seasons.  

Edited 10 hours ago by CincyBillsFan

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

You wrote: I suspect the lack of any move to upgrade Allen's weapons at the trade deadline hit him hard. 

 

And then: I bet Burrow is having a blast out there and he probably thinks that if the Bengal's got a great RB to go along with their awesome WR's they would become the greatest show on turf and start winning those shootouts.

 

You're a good poster but sometimes you imagine things in your head without any proof and then present your opinions with certainty.

 

It doesn't get any more speculative than that.

 

The posts would be become very tedious if I front and back loaded my comments with lots of "In my opinion" & "maybe" & "I don't have any inside knowledge but it's possible that"........................ 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

And I can quote a much longer list where Allen has had exceptional plays this season.  But what's the point?  

 

And for the record I took your Allen is "playing poorly" comment to be for the whole season not just the Miami game. 

 

BTW, which QB this season hasn't had a couple of clunkers?  

 

Again, Allen is on pace for a 4700 total yards; 41 total TD's with only 13 total TO's.  That's a solid season and not a string of 4 yard pass completions.

 

 

It is almost universally believed that Mahomes has been the best QB over the last 8 years. At the same time he has barely been a top 10 QB in a couple of those seasons.  

 

Allen has played poorly in several games this year, including Atl, NE, and Mia - all losses.

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Allen has played poorly in several games this year, including Atl, NE, and Mia - all losses.

Again, Allen didn't play great in those games and the Bills roster apparently can't win a game where Allen isn't great.  Good thing for the Eagles that on a night their elite QB was misfiring through the first 3 quarters they had enough around him to eke out a win on the road against the Packers.

 

 

 

 

[Mikie2times]

For what is worth, this is Allen EPA+CPOE ranking by year. CPOE is completion % above expected.  I think it's showing what you would expect it to show. Allen is historically a top 3 performer, arguably #1 in 2024 and 2020, but always top 3. This year he's performing more like a 5-10 guy which is pretty significant as far as the difference in those tiers. Obviously his statistics are a product of himself and his environment so that's not to say his value is 5-10.  I imagine other QB's would be signifgantly lower ranking with the assets he has, but non the less the stats are the stats. We are getting 5-10 type output. 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

For what is worth, this is Allen EPA+CPOE ranking by year. CPOE is completion % above expected.  I think it's showing what you would expect it to show. Allen is historically a top 3 performer, arguably #1 in 2024 and 2020, but always top 3. This year he's performing more like a 5-10 guy which is pretty significant as far as the difference in those tiers. Obviously his statistics are a product of himself and his environment so that's not to say his value is 5-10.  I imagine other QB's would be signifgantly lower ranking with the assets he has, but non the less the stats are the stats. We are getting 5-10 type output. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. This is the perfect illustration of the variability in the performance of even the most elite players.  The drop from 3 to 7 is likely a direct result of a drop in the receiving talent surrounding Allen.

 

 

[Avisan]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Thanks. This is the perfect illustration of the variability in the performance of even the most elite players.  The drop from 3 to 7 is likely a direct result of a drop in the receiving talent surrounding Allen.

 

 

There isn't a drop in receiving talent surrounding Allen relative to last year.  If anything, it was better when factoring in a relatively healthy Kincaid up until now.

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, Avisan said:

There isn't a drop in receiving talent surrounding Allen relative to last year.  If anything, it was better when factoring in a relatively healthy Kincaid up until now.

I don't think it was random that the offense turned around with Cooper. Even if his production wasn't there. Same with Diggs the year prior as far as just performing at ahigh level. Those are guys that needed to be accounted for and when called on, as rare as it was, made some pretty big plays downfield. Not to mention Mack Hollins performing at a higher level for us AND New England this year for every receiver outside Shakir. It's also not like Kincaid has been healthy all year. I would take last years WR group hands down. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Avisan said:

There isn't a drop in receiving talent surrounding Allen relative to last year.  If anything, it was better when factoring in a relatively healthy Kincaid up until now.

With Palmer's injury Palmer/Moore have yet to replace the production and presence of Hollins & Cooper.

 

T.Johnson has been a far less effective receiver then he was last season where he had multiple big time receptions down the field. Ditto for Cook.

 

Kincaid is better then last year and Allen has a QB rating of 151.5 when targeting him. This means that Allen is exploiting Kincaid's jump as much as possible and the real question is why is Kincaid not on the field for even more targets?

 

Coleman has regressed from last season where before his injury he was making big plays downfield.

 

So I don't see how you can say there hasn't been a drop in receiving talent from last season to this season.  Oh and last season it wasn't exactly a great WR room either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Livinginthepast]

24 minutes ago, T.E. said:

It's really sad to look back on. That was the year. Everything had fallen into place. They were peaking at the right time.

 

All lost because our coaching staff didn’t understand that a touchback doesn't run any time off the clock. Or that a team with three timeouts doesn't need to use the sidelines. I will go to my grave believing that McDermott knowingly ceded a field goal attempt because he preferred that to risking a long pass to Hill. It's just disgusting to think about the overall incompetence and cowardice.

A 13 seconds video came up on my FB reels about 2 weeks ago. I had not seen those 3 plays since it happened. It has been too painful to watch since. Watching it again I was stunned to actually observe it was WORSE than I remembered. They were playing so far off those receivers and no pass rush. Even if they had purposely held and tackled Kelce and Hill on the first down play and drew a penalty that would have killed clock and they would have got 10 measly yards.  No time for a 3rd play FG try. It literally is the dumbest defensive coaching in NFL history in the most crucial circumstance imaginable. I never forgave McD after that. Total idiot strategy that cost us a SB.

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

A 13 seconds video came up on my FB reels about 2 weeks ago. I had not seen those 3 plays since it happened. It has been too painful to watch since. Watching it again I was stunned to actually observe it was WORSE than I remembered. They were playing so far off those receivers and no pass rush. Even if they had purposely held and tackled Kelce and Hill on the first down play and drew a penalty that would have killed clock and they would have got 10 measly yards.  No time for a 3rd play FG try. It literally is the dumbest defensive coaching in NFL history in the most crucial circumstance imaginable. I never forgave McD after that. Total idiot strategy that cost us a SB.

The look on Allen's face as the Chiefs first tied the game and then won it in OT was not so different then the one we're seeing now at times on the sidelines.

 

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

27 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

For what is worth, this is Allen EPA+CPOE ranking by year. CPOE is completion % above expected.  I think it's showing what you would expect it to show. Allen is historically a top 3 performer, arguably #1 in 2024 and 2020, but always top 3. This year he's performing more like a 5-10 guy which is pretty significant as far as the difference in those tiers. Obviously his statistics are a product of himself and his environment so that's not to say his value is 5-10.  I imagine other QB's would be signifgantly lower ranking with the assets he has, but non the less the stats are the stats. We are getting 5-10 type output. 

 

 

 

 

 

So when we get Allen at a 5-10 we just can't win?  That's a major problem when you need your qb to be a 1-3 all the time to win.  But a lot of us have known that years now.

[Cash]

2 hours ago, Steptide said:

Yall seem to have a very short memory. People saying this is partly due to josh being married now - give me a break. He was married the week before against kc and had a near perfect game. Most of you forget how absolutely anemic the offense was under Dorsey and daboll at times, with MUCH better receivers. I agree the bills need receiver help, and I've said since Diggs left that we need a true number 1, but Josh just had a terrible game this past week. I'm sure it wasn't ALL him. Let's see how this season plays out. There's not much we can do (player wise) at this point 

The pick in the end zone was BRUTAL. I don’t care how bad the receivers were. Still brutal. 

[Avisan]

17 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I don't think it was random that the offense turned around with Cooper. Even if his production wasn't there. Same with Diggs the year prior as far as just performing at ahigh level. Those are guys that needed to be accounted for and when called on, as rare as it was, made some pretty big plays downfield. Not to mention Mack Hollins performing at a higher level for us AND New England this year for every receiver outside Shakir. It's also not like Kincaid has been healthy all year. I would take last years WR group hands down. 

I love Mack Hollins.  Wish we had kept him, and think it was a mistake not to re-sign him for what NE offered.  That being said, the talent level is higher this year-- the execution isn't.  Largely that falls on coaching imo, but drop-offs in effort and/or comfort among players will do that, too.

 

God, do I miss Mack though.  Amazing locker room guy, and a fantastic example of making a career out of doing the dirty work.