3 up 3 down (week 8)

[JP51]

Well, you cant really complain too much about a 31pt win on the road they all count the same... so way to go... still have concerns but lets get into it... here is my 3up 3 down

 

UP

 

James Cook - because without him we struggle to win this game, dynamic, electric and dangerous... I can only imagine what our passing game woulda been if he wasnt such a dominant threat. 

Jordan Poyer - Yes... JP simply from a tackling perspective he upgraded our secondary.  He was involved in run support and did a very nice job... in position and played within himself... 

Shakir - his ability to RAC is elite at this point... 

 

Honorable Mention

 

Bosa, Walker Epinesa and Rousseau.. All made big plays for us... that changed the game

 

DOWN

 

Bills passing game - Allen takes the blame in the press... and for some he should... we have not seen the MVP Josh maybe since the Ravens maybe Jets...  I say passing game because I think our lack of ability to separate at the WR position is going to be an Achilles on our left heal to go with the defense Achilles on our right

 

Losing ED Oliver - this is a big big loss... and absolutely is a downer for this game... not a Doc, but from what I am reading this is a long term thing, lets see when we get an update.

 

FO - from watching Josh struggle all season with WR and doing precious little to McD taking over play calls on D (or so I have heard) and not firing Babich and getting a defensive pro in here makes me wonder what they are thinking.  Maybe Beane is done and accepting our flaws and realizes that he needs to step back to build up just from a CAP perspective, maybe McD is going to bring in a new DCO but doesnt feel in season is the right time... I dont know... I do know that there are issues to be addressed... issues of their own making... and thats why I am increasingly moving from glad we have these guys to are they a significant part of the problem... 

 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Well, you cant really complain too much about a 31pt win on the road they all count the same... so way to go... still have concerns but lets get into it... here is my 3up 3 down

 

UP

 

James Cook - because without him we struggle to win this game, dynamic, electric and dangerous... I can only imagine what our passing game woulda been if he wasnt such a dominant threat. 

Jordan Poyer - Yes... JP simply from a tackling perspective he upgraded our secondary.  He was involved in run support and did a very nice job... in position and played within himself... 

Shakir - his ability to RAC is elite at this point... 

 

Honorable Mention

 

Bosa, Walker Epinesa and Rousseau.. All made big plays for us... that changed the game

 

DOWN

 

Bills passing game - Allen takes the blame in the press... and for some he should... we have not seen the MVP Josh maybe since the Ravens maybe Jets...  I say passing game because I think our lack of ability to separate at the WR position is going to be an Achilles on our left heal to go with the defense Achilles on our right

 

Losing ED Oliver - this is a big big loss... and absolutely is a downer for this game... not a Doc, but from what I am reading this is a long term thing, lets see when we get an update.

 

FO - from watching Josh struggle all season with WR and doing precious little to McD taking over play calls on D (or so I have heard) and not firing Babich and getting a defensive pro in here makes me wonder what they are thinking.  Maybe Beane is done and accepting our flaws and realizes that he needs to step back to build up just from a CAP perspective, maybe McD is going to bring in a new DCO but doesnt feel in season is the right time... I dont know... I do know that there are issues to be addressed... issues of their own making... and thats why I am increasingly moving from glad we have these guys to are they a significant part of the problem... 

 

 

 

 

The challenge with separation scores? 

• I don't know the intension of the route (clear out routes are common)
• i don't know the read against the coverage (if i read 2 high i probably am not throwing the post)
• i don't know when they were supposed to uncover (i run a deep out, but timing is disrupted so now i'm in scramble mode)
• i don't know when the ball was supposed to come out (i run a fly route with an option for a back shoulder, neither is likely unless the first read is covered up).  

Most of the misses in this game's passing attack were just misfire's by Allen, and often they felt like timing was off - they seemed to come out a touch late as player was approaching the sideline.  On the plus side, its a marathon not a sprint, and i expect allen to find his way out of his funk.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

Up-

The entire defense. 7 sacks, 3 turnovers. That will give them some confidence. Being able to play aggressively and attack pays off. 

 

Joe Brady. I've been critical of him being too cute. I'll give him equal props for playing it smarter this week. None of those cutesy end arounds. Just pounding the rock 

 

McDermott. If in fact he took over play calling (I don't buy the "Bobby and I are doing it together" line) then credit needs to go to him for identifying the problem and correcting it 

 

Down

Buffalo's outside receivers. I can't remember a time we have lacked this much talent on the boundary. What we have now makes me miss the days of Donald Jones and David Nelson. Get a quality guy in here via trade. Heck, sign Mecole Hardman. Do SOMETHING. LITERALLY ANYTHING!! We cannot trot Shavers, Coleman And Samuel out there any longer. 

 

Ray Davis. I don't think he even deserves a roster spot at this point anymore. I'd love to see Gore elevated to see if he can bring some fresh juice, but it's hard to elevate him when we need to elevate a Safety and DT every week due to injury. My fear is if we don't find an answer at RB 2, by the playoffs Cook will be....well ...Cooked. 

 

Josh Allen. It's been a rough 3 weeks for him. We can have our fan theories all we want about what's wrong with him. A hidden injury, married life, all the new endorsement deals, whatever, lack or receivers....whatever.  It needs to be fixed. Our MVP is struggling. Hopefully, a date with the Chiefs wakes him up.

[Big Turk]

14 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Well, you cant really complain too much about a 31pt win on the road they all count the same... so way to go... still have concerns but lets get into it... here is my 3up 3 down

 

UP

 

James Cook - because without him we struggle to win this game, dynamic, electric and dangerous... I can only imagine what our passing game woulda been if he wasnt such a dominant threat. 

Jordan Poyer - Yes... JP simply from a tackling perspective he upgraded our secondary.  He was involved in run support and did a very nice job... in position and played within himself... 

Shakir - his ability to RAC is elite at this point... 

 

Honorable Mention

 

Bosa, Walker Epinesa and Rousseau.. All made big plays for us... that changed the game

 

DOWN

 

Bills passing game - Allen takes the blame in the press... and for some he should... we have not seen the MVP Josh maybe since the Ravens maybe Jets...  I say passing game because I think our lack of ability to separate at the WR position is going to be an Achilles on our left heal to go with the defense Achilles on our right

 

Losing ED Oliver - this is a big big loss... and absolutely is a downer for this game... not a Doc, but from what I am reading this is a long term thing, lets see when we get an update.

 

FO - from watching Josh struggle all season with WR and doing precious little to McD taking over play calls on D (or so I have heard) and not firing Babich and getting a defensive pro in here makes me wonder what they are thinking.  Maybe Beane is done and accepting our flaws and realizes that he needs to step back to build up just from a CAP perspective, maybe McD is going to bring in a new DCO but doesnt feel in season is the right time... I dont know... I do know that there are issues to be addressed... issues of their own making... and thats why I am increasingly moving from glad we have these guys to are they a significant part of the problem... 

 

 

 

 

Just call Shakir the "YAC Daddy" at this point.

[JP51]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Just call Shakir the "YAC Daddy" at this point.

a fair nickname LOL 

5 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

The challenge with separation scores? 

• I don't know the intension of the route (clear out routes are common)
• i don't know the read against the coverage (if i read 2 high i probably am not throwing the post)
• i don't know when they were supposed to uncover (i run a deep out, but timing is disrupted so now i'm in scramble mode)
• i don't know when the ball was supposed to come out (i run a fly route with an option for a back shoulder, neither is likely unless the first read is covered up).  

Most of the misses in this game's passing attack were just misfire's by Allen, and often they felt like timing was off - they seemed to come out a touch late as player was approaching the sideline.  On the plus side, its a marathon not a sprint, and i expect allen to find his way out of his funk.  

Let us hope... he does... and to your point without understanding the route it is difficult... I will say this... I do not see folks besides Kincaid running open all that often... maybe its a thing maybe we just dont understand... but I tend to think where there is smoke there is fire and Allen is not at fault for the majority of our lack of passing game... some yes.. but for certain, I am not doing an all 22 with an ariel view either for sure... 

[JP51]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Up-

The entire defense. 7 sacks, 3 turnovers. That will give them some confidence. Being able to play aggressively and attack pays off. 

 

Joe Brady. I've been critical of him being too cute. I'll give him equal props for playing it smarter this week. None of those cutesy end arounds. Just pounding the rock 

 

McDermott. If in fact he took over play calling (I don't buy the "Bobby and I are doing it together" line) then credit needs to go to him for identifying the problem and correcting it 

 

Down

Buffalo's outside receivers. I can't remember a time we have lacked this much talent on the boundary. What we have now makes me miss the days of Donald Jones and David Nelson. Get a quality guy in here via trade. Heck, sign Mecole Hardman. Do SOMETHING. LITERALLY ANYTHING!! We cannot trot Shavers, Coleman And Samuel out there any longer. 

 

Ray Davis. I don't think he even deserves a roster spot at this point anymore. I'd love to see Gore elevated to see if he can bring some fresh juice, but it's hard to elevate him when we need to elevate a Safety and DT every week due to injury. My fear is if we don't find an answer at RB 2, by the playoffs Cook will be....well ...Cooked. 

 

Josh Allen. It's been a rough 3 weeks for him. We can have our fan theories all we want about what's wrong with him. A hidden injury, married life, all the new endorsement deals, whatever, lack or receivers....whatever.  It needs to be fixed. Our MVP is struggling. Hopefully, a date with the Chiefs wakes him up.

Outside of his TD in Atlanta I am literally not sure what he has done this year to warrant it... I am not against giving Gore a peek...  I know Davis is theoretically a bruising running back... but I am not seeing a lot of bruising and broken tackles from him... 

[BuffaloMatt]

Down- me.  I feel the dread of this upcoming KC game. I am hoping KC has to play their butts off tonight and walk away with a L and some black and blues. 

 

Up- me. It is victory Monday! 

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Outside of his TD in Atlanta I am literally not sure what he has done this year to warrant it... I am not against giving Gore a peek...  I know Davis is theoretically a bruising running back... but I am not seeing a lot of bruising and broken tackles from him... 

He's a "bruising back" that dropped about 15 pounds last off-season. Now he's just a guy taking a roster spot. He has poor vision and a lack of burst. Good hands as a receiver, I'll give him that. But he's below JAG level. 

[billsfan89]

Lots of ups in a 40-9 blowout but I would give my 3 as follows. 

 

PED Twins and Hairston - All 3 had a big impact on the defense. Larry O may not get on the stat sheet but he helped control the LOS. Hoecht was all over the place, looked like he did in pre-season. Hairston added some speed at corner and looked pretty good esp for someone making their first start in the NFL off an injury. 

 

James Cook- This team clearly has a second offensive super star (third if you count Dawkins). Not much can be said about how he dominated this game. 

 

The rest of the D-line - In addition to Larry O and Hoecht the key players on the D-line Groot, Bosa, Ed (before he got unfortunately hurt), AJE, and Walker were all dominant and it just opened up the rest of the defense. 

 

Some downs

 

WR's besides Shakir can't get it going - Slight down because they weren't really needed. Shakir had the big catch that broke the game open and then it was James Cook all day. But this offense still needs a WR on the outside that can win 1 v 1 consistently. Hopefully some teams that lost games this week open up their WR's to trades. 

 

Ed Oliver injury - Injuries are the worst part of football. I'm hoping this is another week to week injury in terms of maybe it is a smaller tear or a strain. But mentally I am thinking this is a tear and that's gonna put Ed out until some time in January most likely. 

 

Josh still seems a bit off- I'm fully reaching for a down since there's not much to be down about but Josh still didn't seem to be 100% there in terms of his play. He wasn't needed much which is likely the way Joe Brady wanted it. But I think the WR's not being open consistently and Cook dominating the game were making him not needed. But it still seemed like when he was needed he wasn't quite there. 

 

Honorable mentions 

Up- Poyer and Handcock stepping up opposite Cole who also played well. 

Up- Offensive line just dominated the game. 

3 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Down- me.  I feel the dread of this upcoming KC game. I am hoping KC has to play their butts off tonight and walk away with a L and some black and blues. 

 

Up- me. It is victory Monday! 

 

Honestly I think KC is coming in at the right time for the Bills. Fresh off a blowout and a bye week one week removed for the Bills (thus the Bills didn't play a quarter of the game for most starters) and KC is playing Monday and then has to travel to Buffalo. Hoping this is a close game that KC has to at the very least go down to the wire for. But more importantly I think this team mentally needs to "get it up" for a game mid-season. I think this team can kind of coast in the early season and that's why you always see those two game losses every year. Well there's no game better at getting this team in gear than the KC game. The Bills 2023 mad dash towards the division title when down 3 games to Miami was started by that win in KC that year. 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Lots of ups in a 40-9 blowout but I would give my 3 as follows. 

 

PED Twins and Hairston - All 3 had a big impact on the defense. Larry O may not get on the stat sheet but he helped control the LOS. Hoecht was all over the place, looked like he did in pre-season. Hairston added some speed at corner and looked pretty good esp for someone making their first start in the NFL off an injury. 

 

James Cook- This team clearly has a second offensive super star (third if you count Dawkins). Not much can be said about how he dominated this game. 

 

The rest of the D-line - In addition to Larry O and Hoecht the key players on the D-line Groot, Bosa, Ed (before he got unfortunately hurt), AJE, and Walker were all dominant and it just opened up the rest of the defense. 

 

Some downs

 

WR's besides Shakir can't get it going - Slight down because they weren't really needed. Shakir had the big catch that broke the game open and then it was James Cook all day. But this offense still needs a WR on the outside that can win 1 v 1 consistently. Hopefully some teams that lost games this week open up their WR's to trades. 

 

Ed Oliver injury - Injuries are the worst part of football. I'm hoping this is another week to week injury in terms of maybe it is a smaller tear or a strain. But mentally I am thinking this is a tear and that's gonna put Ed out until some time in January most likely. 

 

Josh still seems a bit off- I'm fully reaching for a down since there's not much to be down about but Josh still didn't seem to be 100% there in terms of his play. He wasn't needed much which is likely the way Joe Brady wanted it. But I think the WR's not being open consistently and Cook dominating the game were making him not needed. But it still seemed like when he was needed he wasn't quite there. 

 

Honorable mentions 

Up- Poyer and Handcock stepping up opposite Cole who also played well. 

Up- Offensive line just dominated the game. 

 

Honestly I think KC is coming in at the right time for the Bills. Fresh off a blowout and a bye week one week removed for the Bills (thus the Bills didn't play a quarter of the game for most starters) and KC is playing Monday and then has to travel to Buffalo. Hoping this is a close game that KC has to at the very least go down to the wire for. But more importantly I think this team mentally needs to "get it up" for a game mid-season. I think this team can kind of coast in the early season and that's why you always see those two game losses every year. Well there's no game better at getting this team in gear than the KC game. The Bills 2023 mad dash towards the division title when down 3 games to Miami was started by that win in KC that year. 

 

1st half Josh was definitely off. 2nd half Josh seemed much more like typical Josh.

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

1st half Josh was definitely off. 2nd half Josh seemed much more like typical Josh.

 

Fair to say that, but when you win 40-9 you gotta reach on downs because there's not a lot to complain about. If this was lets say a 28-14 game that was a little more in doubt then there probably would have been bigger downs but that's not what happened. 

[warrior9]

At this point, I have to put some blame Brady for the WR room. 

 

There is zero creativity. We run 1 scripted play to Shakir, there is no crossing routes, there are no motions, it's so bizarre. 

 

I don't think I've ever seen the ball snapped with Coleman off the line or in motion. Why don't we try using him in the slot? Why don't we use him in motion, snap the ball, and have him cross? Why don't we run screens to him? He's great with the ball in his hands. 

 

Samuel is a fast WR. There is nothing scheming him open. We scheme route concepts, not getting folks open. It's so hard to watch teams put their players in position to run after the catch and we just cant. Shakir being the only exception. Maybe they're "saving" some stuff for down the line. I don't know.

 

I'd also like to see us use Cook more in the passing game. I just think our offensive passing game lacks a ton of creativity. 2 completions more than 20 yards down field this year is embarrassing. 

Edited 2 hours ago by warrior9

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

29 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Just call Shakir the "YAC Daddy" at this point.

Never.  That's Travis Henry.

*
(Youth After Conception.)

[JP51]

7 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

At this point, I have to put some blame Brady for the WR room. 

 

There is zero creativity. We run 1 scripted play to Shakir, there is no crossing routes, there are no motions, it's so bizarre. 

 

I don't think I've ever seen the ball snapped with Coleman off the line or in motion. Why don't we try using him in the slot? Why don't we use him in motion, snap the ball, and have him cross? Why don't we run screens to him? He's great with the ball in his hands. 

 

Samuel is a fast WR. There is nothing scheming him open. We scheme route concepts, not getting folks open. It's so hard to watch teams put their players in position to run after the catch and we just cant. Shakir being the only exception. Maybe they're "saving" some stuff for down the line. I don't know.

 

I'd also like to see us use Cook more in the passing game. I just think our offensive passing game lacks a ton of creativity. 2 completions more than 20 yards down field this year is embarrassing. 

I dont disagree here... Brady also seems reactive... his first half game plans seem like the same old same old waiting to see what the defense does instead of anticipating...  I very well could be wrong here but it seems that way to me. 

[billsfan89]

7 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

At this point, I have to put some blame Brady for the WR room. 

 

There is zero creativity. We run 1 scripted play to Shakir, there is no crossing routes, there are no motions, it's so bizarre. 

 

I don't think I've ever seen the ball snapped with Coleman off the line or in motion. Why don't we try using him in the slot? Why don't we use him in motion, snap the ball, and have him cross? Why don't we run screens to him? He's great with the ball in his hands. 

 

Samuel is a fast WR. There is nothing scheming him open. We scheme route concepts, not getting folks open. It's so hard to watch teams put their players in position to run after the catch and we just cant. Shakir being the only exception. Maybe they're "saving" some stuff for down the line. I don't know.

 

I'd also like to see us use Cook more in the passing game. I just think our offensive passing game lacks a ton of creativity. 2 completions more than 20 yards down field this year is embarrassing. 

 

How much can you really scheme guys open if teams don't respect your boundary WR's? I think opposing defense are daring the Bills to beat them on the outside and the one guy that can maybe do that is Palmer and he's hurt. So while I get that you can try to be more creative what are you really doing that's going to make a difference if the WR's can't get open on the boundary with any consistency? 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

47 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Just call Shakir the "YAC Daddy" at this point.

I wonder what he could do fi the defense feared the outside receivers. It seemed to my eye yesterday like their secondary was "playing downhill".

[warrior9]

43 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

How much can you really scheme guys open if teams don't respect your boundary WR's? I think opposing defense are daring the Bills to beat them on the outside and the one guy that can maybe do that is Palmer and he's hurt. So while I get that you can try to be more creative what are you really doing that's going to make a difference if the WR's can't get open on the boundary with any consistency? 

Yes? Use motion so he can’t get jammed off the line. Do you think the Bills are the only team struggling with boundary receivers? Do Boutte, 32 year old Diggs, and Mack Hollins scream “Boundary threats?” No but McDaniels has schemes. Boutte has a slower 40 than Coleman and his avg depth of reception is 17.8 yards. But guess what? They throw the ball for 250-300 a game. Why? Scheme, motion, creativity.

 

We aren’t even calling plays where this is possible. We don’t have routes from the intermediate to deep. Guess what else this hurts? Josh Allen’s ability to scramble and open up plays. When everything is within 10 yards of LOS, you’re taking away his best asset. 

Edited 1 hour ago by warrior9

[Rew]

2 hours ago, JP51 said:

Well, you cant really complain too much about a 31pt win on the road they all count the same... so way to go... still have concerns but lets get into it... here is my 3up 3 down

 

UP

 

James Cook - because without him we struggle to win this game, dynamic, electric and dangerous... I can only imagine what our passing game woulda been if he wasnt such a dominant threat. 

Jordan Poyer - Yes... JP simply from a tackling perspective he upgraded our secondary.  He was involved in run support and did a very nice job... in position and played within himself... 

Shakir - his ability to RAC is elite at this point... 

 

Honorable Mention

 

Bosa, Walker Epinesa and Rousseau.. All made big plays for us... that changed the game

 

DOWN

 

Bills passing game - Allen takes the blame in the press... and for some he should... we have not seen the MVP Josh maybe since the Ravens maybe Jets...  I say passing game because I think our lack of ability to separate at the WR position is going to be an Achilles on our left heal to go with the defense Achilles on our right

 

Losing ED Oliver - this is a big big loss... and absolutely is a downer for this game... not a Doc, but from what I am reading this is a long term thing, lets see when we get an update.

 

FO - from watching Josh struggle all season with WR and doing precious little to McD taking over play calls on D (or so I have heard) and not firing Babich and getting a defensive pro in here makes me wonder what they are thinking.  Maybe Beane is done and accepting our flaws and realizes that he needs to step back to build up just from a CAP perspective, maybe McD is going to bring in a new DCO but doesnt feel in season is the right time... I dont know... I do know that there are issues to be addressed... issues of their own making... and thats why I am increasingly moving from glad we have these guys to are they a significant part of the problem... 

 

 

 

I would say FO is looking up this week.  We just saw a good chunk of our offseason moves (FA and draft) in action for the first time.  It looked good.  Without Bosa/Hoect/O..../Hairston/Hancock/Thompson we are a bottom 10 defense.  With all of them in we are probably a top 10 defense. 

 

We absolutely needed to turn over the defense from last year and we didn't really get to see what was done until yesterday.  Obviously it needs to continue, including against top tier competition, but that defense looked better (this year and forward looking with youth) than we have seen since Von's injury/hyde.

[corta765]

2 hours ago, JP51 said:

FO - from watching Josh struggle all season with WR and doing precious little to McD taking over play calls on D (or so I have heard) and not firing Babich and getting a defensive pro in here makes me wonder what they are thinking.  Maybe Beane is done and accepting our flaws and realizes that he needs to step back to build up just from a CAP perspective, maybe McD is going to bring in a new DCO but doesnt feel in season is the right time... I dont know... I do know that there are issues to be addressed... issues of their own making... and thats why I am increasingly moving from glad we have these guys to are they a significant part of the problem... 

 

I agree with you here on all of this.

I do want to add Albert Breer today mentioned that a lot of teams seem to be more careful right now with QBs in a load mgmt type of way with their usage and what is being shown in the first half. I absolutely believe that the Bills have been doing that with Josh and he has been told to keep it in check until later in the year. That still does not excuse the issues in the passing game that are so prevalent at this time, but it has made me wonder if the game plan has been so intentional at times with runs partly for later in the year. Breer acknowledging as much and other analysts saying the Bills are make Josh be a game manager really makes me think there is credence to some of lack of passing being shown. I don't agree with it, but with the injuries this year and longer season I can see more teams doing that.

[Andrew Son]

Reggie Gilliam needs to be on any up list.  We need to run primarily 13 personnel