What's wrong with Josh?

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I think they are. No matter how great Reid is as a play caller and designer they were pedestrian last year when their receivers were injured. Look how dynamic they are now.
 

The big difference is speed. It doesn’t seem like Bills coaching staff values or know how to use speed. 

 

Josh Allen has gone through like four offensive coordinators and three quarterback coaches in his career 

 

Reid is the de facto offensive coordinator.. even Eric bienemy didn't call plays...

 

Mahomes has had the same play caller his entire career Josh Allen's gone through four different ones

 

Juju Smith Schuster is not way better than Jordan Palmer today lol in fact Palmer has three years straight of better stats

Edited 7 hours ago by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Josh Allen has gone through like four offensive coordinators and three quarterback coaches in his career 

 

Reid  is the de facto offensive coordinator.. even Eric bienemy didn't call plays...

 

Mahomes has had the same play caller his entire career Josh Allen's gone through four different ones

Ok…I’m not sure what that has anything to do our discussion. We were talking about how we ended with this underperforming receiving corp right?

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Ok…I’m not sure what that has anything to do our discussion. We were talking about how we ended with this underperforming receiving corp right?

I think Reid makes do better than Brady does because he's better

 

Reid could scheme our guys open ... We have the MVP..  Reid could absolutely build a offense behind our line and Allen and cook ... He could scheme open Palmer and shakir and kincaid and Coleman 

 

He literally gets guys running wide open from two yard pick plays he could do that with Coleman

 

FYI the last 2 years the Chiefs are scoring 21 points a game and we're scoring more.. they do not have Head and shoulders better wide receivers than we do 

 

Andy Reid would be able to do things with shakir and Palmer.. and even Coleman... 

 

They Have better talent not by much at wide receiver.. we also have the better offensive line and running back

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Buffalo716

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Brand J said:

I think there’s a difference between throwing shade at Allen and acknowledging he’s not playing at the level the Bills need if we’re going to go far this year.

 

So one hand you're correct. If Allen doesn't play at his MVP near-perfect level we have no chance of going far this year. But why are you framing this as a criticism of Allen? In actuality it's a massive indictment of the people in charge.

[90sBills]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think Reid makes do better than Brady does because he's better

 

Reid could scheme our guys open ... We have the MVP..  Reid could absolutely build a offense behind our line and Allen and cook ... He could scheme open Palmer and shakir and kincaid and Coleman 

 

He literally gets guys running wide open from two yard pick plays he could do that with Coleman

 

FYI the last 2 years the Chiefs are scoring 21 points a game and we're scoring more.. they do not have Head and shoulders better wide receivers than we do 

 

Andy Reid would be able to do things with shakir and Palmer.. and even Coleman... 

 

Have better talent not by much at wide receiver.. we also have the better offensive line and running back

 

The receivers from 2 yrs ago were not better for sure. MVS, Toney and Sky Moore were starters. Last year they had this group with Rice, Worthy and Hollywood. Injuries wiped them out last year. This is the first time they’ve played together and you can see it’s lights years better than what the Bills have. 
 

Coleman would not be on Reid’s team. Speed is essential in his offense. 

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So one hand you're correct. If Allen doesn't play at his MVP near-perfect level we have no chance of going far this year. But why are you framing this as a criticism of Allen? In actuality it's a massive indictment of the people in charge.

AMEN and agree 100%.  

 

 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

The receivers from 2 yrs ago were not better for sure. MVS, Toney and Sky Moore were starters. Last year they had this group with Rice, Worthy and Hollywood. Injuries wiped them out last year. This is the first time they’ve played together and you can see it’s lights years better than what the Bills have. 
 

Coleman would not be on Reid’s team. Speed is essential in his offense. 

 

Keon Coleman and Xavier worthy are the same level of actual wide receiver 

 

Inconsistent at best.. Coleman can catch worthy has speed 

 

Both terribly inconsistent.. but you can run rub routes to get anybody open within a few yards

 

Xavier Worthy is nothing special... They have rice and JuJu 

 

 and JuJu hasnt been a big time producer in years for a full season

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Keon Coleman and Xavier worthy are the same level of actual wide receiver 

 

Inconsistent at best.. Coleman can catch worthy has speed 

 

Both terribly inconsistent.. but you can run rub routes to get anybody open within a few yards

 

Worthy can take defenders away from the middle part of the field where Rice and Kelce operate. Can you imagine Coleman clearing anything out? His guy could probably guard him and help out on another route. It’s not all about stats. That’s the type of scheming that our offense doesn’t have. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Worthy can take defenders away from the middle part of the field where Rice and Kelce operate. Can you imagine Coleman clearing anything out? His guy could probably guard him and help out on another route. It’s not all about stats. That’s the type of scheming that our offense doesn’t have. 

The Buffalo Bills do run clearing out routes which is why Dalton Kincaid has been eating in the middle of the field

 

The Chiefs have the best offensive coordinator in the NFL the bills don't that's the difference in the scheming throughout the Long haul of the game

Edited 7 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Roundybout]

 

 

Good lord Keon 

[90sBills]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

The Buffalo Bills do run clearing out routes which is why Dalton Kincaid has been eating in the middle of the field

Not as effectively. Hence all the passing struggles. Unless you think the problem is Allen like what this thread suggests?

 

I think Allen can be better but it’s more on the receivers and scheme. 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, milfandcookies said:

corps not core in this instance

 

idk babe maybe they would be more scared if we tried throwing it deep once in awhile 

you misspelled corpse

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Not as effectively. Hence all the passing struggles. Unless you think the problem is Allen like what this thread suggests?

 

I think Allen can be better but it’s more on the receivers and scheme. 

Of course we need better wide receivers but we can certainly win with what we have this year even though it needs to be upgraded

 

Joe Brady needs to improve the layout of the passing game

Edited 6 hours ago by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Of course we need better wide receivers but we can certainly win with what we have this year even though it needs to be upgraded

Of course we can win games. But winning the Super Bowl? I don’t think so anymore if nothing changes. 

[hondo in seattle]

6 hours ago, VW82 said:

So...just as a reminder wrt Panthers game...

 

1. Josh was essentially blaming himself in the post game presser for passing game struggles.

2. Bills media guys doing all 22 are pinning a lot of the struggles on Josh.

 

I get everyone wants to blame the receivers, and they definitely deserve blame for what we've seen this year, but it's time for some on this forum to admit Josh has been subpar in a lot of these games. He needs to be better for this team.    

 

Greg Cosell, among others, is putting some of the blame on Brady.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

It was the success they had with this philosophy after they fired Dorsey and elevated Brady. Brady took the ball out of Allen’s hands by leaning on the run and the offense thrived. They continued that last year with even greater success. 
 

This is the way according to Brady/McD. 

 

I disagree.  I don't think either McD or Brady is purposely bad at throwing downfield.  

 

My guess is what they want to do is stretch the field both vertically and horizontally.  Balance.  Run inside and out, throw short and deep.  Force opponents to defend the entire field. 

 

But we're not good enough to do that.  Our WRs don't get a lot of separation, our OL has been inconsistent at passpro, and our OC isn't adept at scheming a downfield passing game. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Well I will say this after my rewatch of the first half of Panthers game: 

 

-Allen left some obvious options on the table. He continues to bail early from the pocket and doesn’t seem to be working through entire progressions.

 

-Brady’s scheme is questionable, in that often times we’re running two man concepts with a max protect into 7 defenders…or we’re running a two man concept both within 3 yards of the LOS. 
 

- Guys were open, or had a chance at times to get the ball, and Josh is opting to look elsewhere or scramble. 
 

- Zones seem to be giving this team the most trouble, despite what everyone has to say about our issues with man coverage. We are not finding holes in the zone (Brady, Allen, and WRs aren’t in synch). 
 

- The average depth of completion in that half had to be a career low for Allen. The only downfield throw was the 22 yarder to Kincaid in man, 

 

My take away from that half reaffirmed what I’ve thought: Allen’s mentality has shifted in large part to many factors: limited opportunity due to scheme knowing game flow dictate he play it safe, not trusting WRs to win and is looking for clearly open players (or Kincaid who he trusts).

 

I don’t think adding any WR at this point is going to fix what the issue is: to me it has to be a combined effort to revamp the effort to push the ball down the field, trusting his guys, and drawing up some better route combinations against zones. 

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

So one hand you're correct. If Allen doesn't play at his MVP near-perfect level we have no chance of going far this year. But why are you framing this as a criticism of Allen? In actuality it's a massive indictment of the people in charge.

Addressing both you and Cincy at the same time… we don’t need Allen to be elite every single game. That’s not even realistic. Above average QB play, combined with the running game, will get it done against the likes of the Falcons, Saints, Dolphins, etc. I think it’s enough to get it done against upstarts like the Patriots (provided we’re not losing the turnover battle). But to your question…

 

To whom much is given, much is expected in return. It’s not a criticism of Allen, Mahomes, Hurts, Jackson, or [insert prominent QB’s name here] to want (or expect) the guy to elevate his play enough to score one more point than the opponent. Yes, Allen is human, he will have off games, but what does his offense do when given the ball and a chance to win the game? With that said… 
 

Allen has been repeatedly let down by his teammates in the playoffs. Its not fair to criticize his heroics there, including the much maligned Shakir vs Diggs pass against KC. In these regular season losses its been a combination of his play and others, including his offensive coordinator. NONE of them are above reproach and that’s the point of it all. To criticize his play - along with the others - isn’t throwing shade, it’s calling a spade a spade. We’ll see how it all plays out when it matters most - the 2026 playoffs. I hope at that time the offense and Allen especially are running like a finely tuned engine. The QB who performs the best will most likely see his team with a Lombardi trophy at the end of it all.

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I disagree.  I don't think either McD or Brady is purposely bad at throwing downfield.  

 

My guess is what they want to do is stretch the field both vertically and horizontally.  Balance.  Run inside and out, throw short and deep.  Force opponents to defend the entire field. 

 

But we're not good enough to do that.  Our WRs don't get a lot of separation, our OL has been inconsistent at passpro, and our OC isn't adept at scheming a downfield passing game. 

I don’t think they’re being bad on purpose. I think they want a balance ball control type offense. It has been working for a year plus. 
 

Agree that the receivers are not good enough right now. 

[hondo in seattle]

15 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I don’t think they’re being bad on purpose. I think they want a balance ball control type offense. It has been working for a year plus. 
 

Agree that the receivers are not good enough right now. 

 

I shouldn't have said it like that, and I do agree that McD and Brady want a balanced offense.   And while Brady is producing less yards/game than his predecessors, he's also putting up more points and fewer TOs.  I do give him some credit.  

 

Still, I believe Brady has a problem scheming a downfield passing game.  Other than the 4th quarter of the Ravens game, Brady can't seem to dial one up when he needs to.  

 

I'd really love to see the Bills hire a good passing game coordinator this offseason to help Brady out.