My view on the Bills Defensive Problems

[Cheektavegas Charlie]

The biggest problem with the Bills in my opinion is McDermott’s defensive scheme. Under McDermott, the Bills have consistently played a soft zone defense, not wanting to get beat deep and not playing press coverage. You can’t expect the D line to get to the QB on their own when the defensive backs play soft zone and the QB can find an open WR in less than 2 seconds. You also can’t expect the defensive backs to hold up in man coverage when they are all slow zone-oriented players and none of the D-lineman can consistently get after the QB. Sure, this scheme has worked great over the years against guys like Davis Mills, Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, Mason Rudolph Skylar Thompson, etc., but we also make it extremely easy for guys like Mahomes and Burrow, and often much lesser QBs. They can’t get after the QB and they can’t stop good offenses. Compare Mahomes in his super bowl losses to the Bucs and the Eagles, being hurried, hit and sacked and not able to get comfortable in the pocket, and not being able to do anything on offense to all his playoff wins vs the Bills where he has all the time in the world and consistently finds receivers running wide open, and puts up the Chiefs highest scoring games of their year.

 

Look at the corners the Bills have had starting for them in the McDermott era:

Ron Darby – very fast, traded away because he didn’t fit the scheme

Tre White – used to be somewhat fast, now slow

Levi Wallace – extremely slow

Dane Jackson – slow

Christian Benford – slower than average

Rasual Douglas – slow

 

One thing that does give me some optimism that McDermott might be trying to change his ways is the fact that we've drafted Elam and Max Hariston, two fast and athletic guys, but obviously we haven't gotten anything from them.

 

Their sack totals have also been very bad over the years, and they’ve never had a D lineman who can consistently get after the QB (although I mostly blame this on McDermott’s scheme)

 

2017 – 26 team sacks, team leader had 4

2018 – 36 sacks, most was 7

2019 – 44 and 9.5

2020 – 38 and 5

2021 – 41 and 7

2022 – 40 and 8

2023 – 53 and 10.5 (interestingly, this was the only year McDermott called the plays, and they played a much more aggressive style of D)

2024 – 37 and 8

 

Compare these to the Jim Schwartz years where the Bills had a horrible offense led by EJ and Kyle Orton, and one of the best defenses in the league playing Schwartz’s more aggressive scheme. Keep in mind, they also played one less game in those years.

2014 – 54 – 14.5

2013 – 57 – 13

 

We can spend absurd amounts of the salary cap on defense players, leaving Josh with barely any weapons, talk about getting Hoecht and Ogunjobi back, talk about trading for a new safety, etc., but I’m of the opinion that the defensive philosophy itself is never going to hold up, especially against the best teams in the playoffs, and we’ll always be relying on Josh to Superman his way to the superbowl in spite of the D.

[Big Turk]

You realize the Bills D has allowed the fewest points in the NFL since 2018 when Allen has gotten here right?  

 

I mean we can talk about all this, that and the other, but the bottom line is the only thing that matters is how often the other team scores, and the Bills are the best in the NFL over that time in preventing it.

 

 

 

 

The Bills also have allowed the fewest yards in the NFL over that span as well, and BY FAR, the lowest passing yards allowed also.

 

What are we doing?  Making up stuff that never happened?

Edited 4 hours ago by Big Turk

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

You realize the Bills D has allowed the fewest points in the NFL since 2018 when Allen has gotten here right?  

 

I mean we can talk about all this, that and the other, but the bottom line is the only thing that matters is how often the other team scores, and the Bills are the best in the NFL over that time in preventing it.

 

 

The Bills also have allowed the fewest yards in the NFL over that span as well.

 

What are we doing?  Making up stuff that never happened?

How about now?  It seems what you posted had a hard line of change starting this year.

 

 

And can you post the same stats for playoffs only in that time frame please?  Thanks.

Edited 4 hours ago by SoonerBillsFan

[billsfan714]

I said it another thread, I was watching Belichick talking last year about us he said our secondary was slow.   I think BB knows what he's talking about when he talks defense.   I'll add Taylor Rapp ran a 4.77 at his pro day coming out of college---slow.   The Schwartz numbers are even more impressive when you think about he wasn't working with a great offense and a lot of leads.   A lot of sacks come when a team is trying to come from behind and needs to pass.

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

How about now?  It seems what you posted had a hard line of change starting this year.

 

 

And can you post the same stats for playoffs only in that time frame please?  Thanks.

 

They are 14th this year at 22.8. We don't need an elite D when we have an elite O. 14th is plenty good enough to win a Super Bowl with.

 

In the playoffs they allow an average of 24.0 PPG since 2018. The real issue in the playoffs is their inability to get off the field against KC when they do just fine during the regular season in that regard. 

 

Regular season, KC has averaged 20 PPG against them, in the playoffs they average 34 PPG.  There is no excuse for the exact same team with the exact same players to be 2 TD better against you in the playoffs than the regular season over a span of 4+ years.

 

[Fleezoid]

15 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

You realize the Bills D has allowed the fewest points in the NFL since 2018 when Allen has gotten here right?  

 

I mean we can talk about all this, that and the other, but the bottom line is the only thing that matters is how often the other team scores, and the Bills are the best in the NFL over that time in preventing it.

 

 

 

 

The Bills also have allowed the fewest yards in the NFL over that span as well, and BY FAR, the lowest passing yards allowed also.

 

What are we doing?  Making up stuff that never happened?

 

It's not that the other teams don't score. It's when the other teams do score. You have to play big in big moments and the Bills defense simply doesn't do that enough. 

 

So this is my view on the Bills defensive problems.....

 

 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

It's not that the other teams don't score. It's when the other teams do score. You have to play big in big moments and the Bills defense simply doesn't do that enough. 

 

So this is my view on the Bills defensive problems.....

 

 

 

The takes on this board when talking about the 2nd winningest team in the regular season in all of pro sports over the last 6+ years are absurd.

 

In elimination games in the playoffs?  Sure. I'm with you there.

 

In regular season games?  Who cares. They win at a rate unseen anywhere other than Kansas City.

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Turk

[RyanC883]

24 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

You realize the Bills D has allowed the fewest points in the NFL since 2018 when Allen has gotten here right?  

 

I mean we can talk about all this, that and the other, but the bottom line is the only thing that matters is how often the other team scores, and the Bills are the best in the NFL over that time in preventing it.

 

 

 

 

The Bills also have allowed the fewest yards in the NFL over that span as well, and BY FAR, the lowest passing yards allowed also.

 

What are we doing?  Making up stuff that never happened?

 

how much of this is because we play in the AFC East which was pretty barren over that time span.  Also, our D collapses in the playoffs.  Our "bend and don't break" structure does not work against top QBs, and this year does not work against mediocre QBs.  

Edited 3 hours ago by RyanC883

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

how much of this is because we play in the AFC East which was pretty barren over that time span.  Also, our D collappses in the playoffs.  Our "bend and don't break" structure does not work against top QBs, and this year does not work against medicore QBs.  

 

Probably not much.  A lot of good QBs have looked mediocre against the Bills D over the years. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking other divisions have been some kind of powerhouses over all those years. 

 

Perhaps we should say the same thing about the Eagles?

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Turk

[RyanC883]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Probably not much.  A lot of good QBs have looked mediocre against the Bills D over the years.

 

during the regular season, sure.  But come playoff time, as you pointed out earlier, our D gets exposed.  This year, mediocre QBs (we haven't played a great one yet apart from Jackson) have beaten us, and middling RBs have run all over us.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

They are 14th this year at 22.8. We don't need an elite D when we have an elite O. 14th is plenty good enough to win a Super Bowl with.

 

In the playoffs they allow an average of 24.0 PPG since 2018. The real issue in the playoffs is their inability to get off the field against KC when they do just fine during the regular season in that regard. 

 

Regular season, KC has averaged 20 PPG against them, in the playoffs they average 34 PPG.  There is no excuse for the exact same team with the exact same players to be 2 TD better against you in the playoffs than the regular season over a span of 4+ years.

 

This shows the defense regressing amd we haven't seen anything to give us confidence playoff wise.

 

 

[Big Turk]

Just now, RyanC883 said:

 

during the regular season, sure.  But come playoff time, as you pointed out earlier, our D gets exposed.  This year, mediocre QBs (we haven't played a great one yet apart from Jackson) have beaten us, and middling RBs have run all over us.  

 

No argument from me on either of those. Bills D is in flux right now I think and my hope is that with some more time to gel with new and young players and players coming back into the lineup, it will solidify down the back stretch of the season.  

 

Playoff D is essentially "Why does KC score 2 TDs more per game in the playoffs against us than in the regular season?" 

 

If they can solve that one problem, they will win Super Bowls.

Just now, SoonerBillsFan said:

This shows the defense regressing amd we haven't seen anything to give us confidence playoff wise.

 

 

 

It shows the defense is in flux right now and it's still early in the season. Perhaps it may not be as good, but perhaps it will get better. I don't care what it looks like until we get into the playoffs honestly. If they play their 4 best games of the season in the playoffs, and we have to suffer thru some tough games in the regular season, I'll take it.

[nuklz2594]

need much bigger lbs.  225lbs ain't cutting it.

[BlazinBill]

Issue with his defense (McDermott) has always been the same and will continue to be so- statically looking at a season really lacks an accurate picture of things-but stats are bs anyway -good QBs are never contained- they simply methodically tear us apart,

then pressure on Allen to be a hero -  this is why the playoffs seem to end the same way- if you are dealing with a strong coach and a good qb they are cooked

 

[Cheektavegas Charlie]

12 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The takes on this board when talking about the 2nd winningest team in the regular season in all of pro sports over the last 6+ years are absurd.

 

In elimination games in the playoffs?  Sure. I'm with you there.

 

In regular season games?  Who cares. They win at a rate unseen anywhere other than Kansas City.

A lot of posters want everyone to be eternally grateful to McDermott for ending the drought and beating up on an incredibly weak AFC East for the last 5 years. At this point I’m over the regular season success.

[Fleezoid]

9 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The takes on this board when talking about the 2nd winningest team in the regular season in all of pro sports over the last 6+ years are absurd.

 

In elimination games in the playoffs?  Sure. I'm with you there.

 

In regular season games?  Who cares. They win at a rate unseen anywhere other than Kansas City.

 

That's fair. And the fact that they're statistically good is accurate. what I think a lot of the angst here is while they're good in the regular season, we know how it can play out in the post season. They're good over the course of a season or several seasons. But there's moments they get gashed in the run or pass game, or both. it's painful to the eyes. And it makes folks think it will absolutely happen in the post-season. The Bills don't have the wow factor in any elements of their defense. That's concerning. 

[LVGrown]

27 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

I said it another thread, I was watching Belichick talking last year about us he said our secondary was slow.   I think BB knows what he's talking about when he talks defense.   I'll add Taylor Rapp ran a 4.77 at his pro day coming out of college---slow.   The Schwartz numbers are even more impressive when you think about he wasn't working with a great offense and a lot of leads.   A lot of sacks come when a team is trying to come from behind and needs to pass.

I'd love to see a Schwartz led defense with Josh Allen as team QB.

[Sweats]

It all starts with getting pressure on the QB and if you can't do that (which we can't), then he's got all day to let his WR's find the soft spot and pick us apart.

 

And for Christ's sakes, can we get out of the Nickle once in a while?!?..........no sense in hiding any D schemes, when the opponents already know you're going Nickle........oh, like they haven't seen the game tape from every game, from every season and it's still a mystery what system we're playing.

 

Like, come on, man.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Cheektavegas Charlie said:

The biggest problem with the Bills in my opinion is McDermott’s defensive scheme. Under McDermott, the Bills have consistently played a soft zone defense, not wanting to get beat deep and not playing press coverage. You can’t expect the D line to get to the QB on their own when the defensive backs play soft zone and the QB can find an open WR in less than 2 seconds. You also can’t expect the defensive backs to hold up in man coverage when they are all slow zone-oriented players and none of the D-lineman can consistently get after the QB. Sure, this scheme has worked great over the years against guys like Davis Mills, Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, Mason Rudolph Skylar Thompson, etc., but we also make it extremely easy for guys like Mahomes and Burrow, and often much lesser QBs. They can’t get after the QB and they can’t stop good offenses. Compare Mahomes in his super bowl losses to the Bucs and the Eagles, being hurried, hit and sacked and not able to get comfortable in the pocket, and not being able to do anything on offense to all his playoff wins vs the Bills where he has all the time in the world and consistently finds receivers running wide open, and puts up the Chiefs highest scoring games of their year.

 

Look at the corners the Bills have had starting for them in the McDermott era:

Ron Darby – very fast, traded away because he didn’t fit the scheme

Tre White – used to be somewhat fast, now slow

Levi Wallace – extremely slow

Dane Jackson – slow

Christian Benford – slower than average

Rasual Douglas – slow

 

One thing that does give me some optimism that McDermott might be trying to change his ways is the fact that we've drafted Elam and Max Hariston, two fast and athletic guys, but obviously we haven't gotten anything from them.

 

Their sack totals have also been very bad over the years, and they’ve never had a D lineman who can consistently get after the QB (although I mostly blame this on McDermott’s scheme)

 

2017 – 26 team sacks, team leader had 4

2018 – 36 sacks, most was 7

2019 – 44 and 9.5

2020 – 38 and 5

2021 – 41 and 7

2022 – 40 and 8

2023 – 53 and 10.5 (interestingly, this was the only year McDermott called the plays, and they played a much more aggressive style of D)

2024 – 37 and 8

 

Compare these to the Jim Schwartz years where the Bills had a horrible offense led by EJ and Kyle Orton, and one of the best defenses in the league playing Schwartz’s more aggressive scheme. Keep in mind, they also played one less game in those years.

2014 – 54 – 14.5

2013 – 57 – 13

 

We can spend absurd amounts of the salary cap on defense players, leaving Josh with barely any weapons, talk about getting Hoecht and Ogunjobi back, talk about trading for a new safety, etc., but I’m of the opinion that the defensive philosophy itself is never going to hold up, especially against the best teams in the playoffs, and we’ll always be relying on Josh to Superman his way to the superbowl in spite of the D.

Jim Schwartz also had the benefit of having Mario Williams on his team as well as Kyle Williams and Jerry Hughes oh yeah and an inspired Marcell Dareus. If we fielded half those guys on our D-line things would look much better when it comes to sacks and turnovers. Hoecht should improve our pass rushing as to me he a superior player to Solomon and possibly AJE. That said the secondary needs help and hopefully Hairston can offer some of that too. Larry O will hopefully improve the run defense so things might start getting better the next few weeks. 

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

That's fair. And the fact that they're statistically good is accurate. what I think a lot of the angst here is while they're good in the regular season, we know how it can play out in the post season. They're good over the course of a season or several seasons. But there's moments they get gashed in the run or pass game, or both. it's painful to the eyes. And it makes folks think it will absolutely happen in the post-season. The Bills don't have the wow factor in any elements of their defense. That's concerning. 

 

Oh absolutely, but honestly, what team doesn't? People used to freak out when we were a "No-Fly Zone" and teams averaged under 200 yards passing a game and they would see a few completions for like 20 or 25 yards and freak out and at the end of the game the QB would have thrown for like 178 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. 

 

And I have been guilty of that as well...you see a few big plays and you think they are getting crushed, but in the overall game, it's not anywhere close to as bad as you think. The only team that really put up numbers on us offensively were the Falcons.