What's the Bills team identity?!?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Yeah, the Bills identity is essentially McDermott's personality at this point.  I'd only add the Bills aren't innovative, stubbornly refuse to change, and go with what they know.  See it in the coordinator picks, personnel decisions, the scheme, almost ever facet of the football side of that franchise.  

 

Something's gotta give.  

I feel like the defensive scheme has been changing a good amount starting around the playoffs last year but the results are bad so no one cares (which is understandable lol). Feels like we’re playing way more man than usual at minimum. 

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I’m not completely disagreeing with that notion at all. My post was about ‘everyone eats’ philosophy. That’s exactly what KC did the two years immediately after trading Tyreek Hill. They got Super Bowl trophies out of it while we’re getting knocked out of the playoffs the same way year after year. Not everyone can operate the way KC can. Allen needs a legit #1 receiver. Brady also needs to design better schemes. 
 

Rice looks to have great upside. But remember he only played 2.5 games last season. In his rookie year he didn’t come on until late in the season. And this year he has played 1 game. So he hasn’t exactly been the reason they went to 3 straight Super Bowls. 
 

They did it because they HAD to. That’s not what the TRIED to do. That’s my point. They tried to find a number 1. They took lots of swings and eventually did. The Bills purposely decided to have only role players. Journeyman Mack Hollins, the Patriots 4th or 5th WR, led the Bills in snaps last year. That can’t possibly happen.
 

They traded down twice before settling for Keon as the 9th WR off the board or whatever he was. He obviously wasn’t some guy that they thought would transform the offense. If he was, they would have just picked him instead of going backwards twice. The FA dollars went to Samuel, Palmer and Moore. They didn’t draft a guy at all this year (I don’t count Prather). The Chiefs approach was, “we need to keep swinging to find elite WRs.” The Bills approach is, “get a bunch of bodies and Josh will make them good.” 

[90sBills]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They did it because they HAD to. That’s not what the TRIED to do. That’s my point. They tried to find a number 1. They took lots of swings and eventually did. The Bills purposely decided to have only role players. Journeyman Mack Hollins, the Patriots 4th or 5th WR, led the Bills in snaps last year. That can’t possibly happen.
 

They traded down twice before settling for Keon as the 9th WR off the board or whatever he was. He obviously wasn’t some guy that they thought would transform the offense. If he was, they would have just picked him instead of going backwards twice. The FA dollars went to Samuel, Palmer and Moore. They didn’t draft a guy at all this year (I don’t count Prather). The Chiefs approach was, “we need to keep swinging to find elite WRs.” The Bills approach is, “get a bunch of bodies and Josh will make them good.” 

I get what you’re saying. They traded Diggs and got a couple of jag receivers. But what do you want the team to say when they haven’t found a big name guy? Of course it’s ‘everybody eats’ and Allen will spread it around. 
 

My point was KC signed Juju and MVS to replace Tyreek. Not exactly world beaters. They drafted Sky Moore that year. He’s worse than Keon. They went into that season saying the same things about ‘everyone eats’ and Mahomes would spread the ball around. Mahomes won MVP that year and KC won the Super Bowl. Allen won MVP last year with this philosophy and Bills actually were pretty good but couldn’t finish at the end.
 

Could Bills have invested more draft capital in receivers? Definitely! But they didn’t draft Keon to throw contested jump balls. They envisioned him being a #1. It just hasn’t worked out. 
 

I agree that it was disappointing they didn’t invest real draft capital this offseason into receivers. KC does swing more definitely. Hopefully Beane can get something done by the trade deadline. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, 90sBills said:

I get what you’re saying. They traded Diggs and got a couple of jag receivers. But what do you want the team to say when they haven’t found a big name guy? Of course it’s ‘everybody eats’ and Allen will spread it around. 
 

My point was KC signed Juju and MVS to replace Tyreek. Not exactly world beaters. They drafted Sky Moore that year. He’s worse than Keon. They went into that season saying the same things about ‘everyone eats’ and Mahomes would spread the ball around. Mahomes won MVP that year and KC won the Super Bowl. Allen won MVP last year with this philosophy and Bills actually were pretty good but couldn’t finish at the end.
 

Could Bills have invested more draft capital in receivers? Definitely! But they didn’t draft Keon to throw contested jump balls. They envisioned him being a #1. It just hasn’t worked out. 
 

I agree that it was disappointing they didn’t invest real draft capital this offseason into receivers. KC does swing more definitely. Hopefully Beane can get something done by the trade deadline. 

I’m in 100% agreement with the bolded. We are saying the same thing. I’m more disappointed in the people that bought in as if that was a good idea. 🤣🤣 I get why the Bills tried get people to “look over here and see the birdie.”

 

The Bills process has been flawed. The results are obviously not good at WR but it’s because they didn’t really try. Swinging and missing happens but missing without swinging is the bigger issue.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Yes KC invested in pass catchers. Most have not panned out but they were still winning Lombardi’s.

 

KC scored 22.2 PPG in 2023 (14th) and 23.1 PPG in 2024 (12th). That's nice for them that they can have an offense outside the top 10 and still compete for Super Bowls. The Bills very clearly are not built that way. We need to score 30 PPG bare minimum to have a chance.

[90sBills]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

KC scored 22.2 PPG in 2023 (14th) and 23.1 PPG in 2024 (12th). That's nice for them that they can have an offense outside the top 10 and still compete for Super Bowls. The Bills very clearly are not built that way. We need to score 30 PPG bare minimum to have a chance.

Absolutely! Couldn’t agree more. 

[transient]

20 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We are a bit confused. We are a run heavy team that plays with a lot of TEs. It used to be a 6th OL but now it’s Hawes. We want to run, limit mistakes and control the clock. It’s just a super weird approach and way of building a team around, arguably, the most physically gifted QB in history. 🤣🤣 This offense would have been the PERFECT offense when you had Tyrod under center.

Has anyone rewatched the wind game against the Patriots to see if McD was sporting a chub on the sideline the whole time NE was on offense?

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, transient said:

Has anyone rewatched the wind game against the Patriots to see if McD was sporting a chub on the sideline the whole time NE was on offense?

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Moore was a bust. Toney was a bust. Hardman was a bust. Juju and MVS couldn’t make it anywhere else. Those were their receivers when they won Super Bowl 57 against the Eagles.

 

Rice was a rookie when they won Super Bowl 58 after guys like Toney and Sky Moore were dropping passes all season. Then last year was when they overhauled again and got Brown and drafted Worthy. Rice seems to have developed into a #1. 
 

Yes KC invested in pass catchers. Most have not panned out but they were still winning Lombardi’s. Bills also have invested in a lot of pass catchers. 3 starters out of the ‘22-‘24 drafts. There aren’t any trophies to show for it so it seems worse. 

 

I think you're forgetting a pass catcher who happens to be engaged to someone famous and helped with their ensemble WR group.  Can't place his name, but I think he's pretty good and probably influenced personnel decisions at WR.  

 

As for the post-Tyreek SB win in 2022...Juju had a good season, MVS was better than replacement level...and then there was that guy engaged to the famous person.  Not exactly "everybody eats" quality of pass catchers.  In 2023, it was Rashee Rice showing up as a rookie...having 500+ yards receiving in his final 6 regular season games.  

 

KC didn't do "everybody eats" and comparisons to it are absurd. 

 

55 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I feel like the defensive scheme has been changing a good amount starting around the playoffs last year but the results are bad so no one cares (which is understandable lol). Feels like we’re playing way more man than usual at minimum. 

 

Scheme is part of it, but the amount of investment on DL is hamstringing their ability to have decent starters elsewhere, namely the secondary.

 

That DL, were it not for suspensions to the 2 UFAs, currently features Rousseau, Bosa, Epenesa, Jackson, Hoecht, Oliver, Sanders, Walker, D. Jones, and Ogunjobi.  10 guys who are either UFAs with a high(er) cap hit, high to moderately high draft picks, and players re-signed to market contracts.   DL eats up about 18-19% of their cap.  

 

Besides, since Josh re-signed in 2022 and again this off-season, they've held firm if not expanded their investment there.  And there's been a lot of misses there as well.  

 

Gotta be smarter with their UFA contracts and get more production from drafted defensive players especially after RD1.  

[transient]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It's not New England's offense... it must be the pleats in the pants.

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They did it because they HAD to. That’s not what the TRIED to do. That’s my point. They tried to find a number 1. They took lots of swings and eventually did. The Bills purposely decided to have only role players. Journeyman Mack Hollins, the Patriots 4th or 5th WR, led the Bills in snaps last year. That can’t possibly happen.
 

They traded down twice before settling for Keon as the 9th WR off the board or whatever he was. He obviously wasn’t some guy that they thought would transform the offense. If he was, they would have just picked him instead of going backwards twice. The FA dollars went to Samuel, Palmer and Moore. They didn’t draft a guy at all this year (I don’t count Prather). The Chiefs approach was, “we need to keep swinging to find elite WRs.” The Bills approach is, “get a bunch of bodies and Josh will make them good.” 

So we spent free agent money on Palmer Samuel and Moore.  Granted Samuel has been injured a bunch, but when he has been on the field, why aren't building our offense around guys we are paying decent money to as free agents?  If we are bringing them in, why aren't we using them more down the field?  Moore was solid in Cleveland with bad QB's.  Palmer was better in LA, than he has been w us.  And Samuel has had his moments over the years.  A good team knows what their plan is for every player on the roster.  We just put guys away in the closet.  Its ridiculous.  And doesn't Josh have any say in the offense?  He is the team.  He needs to take charge of the organization.  Because he is the organization.  If McDermott Beane do not realize this, Pegula needs to kick some ass real quick.  And if this continues through the rest of the season.  Blow the whole thing up, and start fresh with Josh, Cook, Kincaid and the O line.  Keep Deone Walker and Hoecht if he plays well on defense with Hairston Strong and Hancock,  and everyone else can be on the trading block if there is value to be had.  

[Sweats]

36 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

KC scored 22.2 PPG in 2023 (14th) and 23.1 PPG in 2024 (12th). That's nice for them that they can have an offense outside the top 10 and still compete for Super Bowls. The Bills very clearly are not built that way. We need to score 30 PPG bare minimum to have a chance.

 

 

 

 

We need to score 30 points a game to hide our ineptness on D.

[90sBills]

36 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

KC scored 22.2 PPG in 2023 (14th) and 23.1 PPG in 2024 (12th). That's nice for them that they can have an offense outside the top 10 and still compete for Super Bowls. The Bills very clearly are not built that way. We need to score 30 PPG bare minimum to have a chance.

The first season after trading Tyreek they avg 29.2 ppg (1st) and won the Super Bowl. That’s with MVS and JuJu as the main receivers along with Kelce. The next two years, like you said, their offense wasn’t as good and but they adjusted and still got to where they want to go.

 

I feel like last year the Bills had similar offensive success as KC did in ‘22. Now it’s the second year of the same plan and it’s not as successful. You’re right about the Bills not being built the same. Mainly because of the defense that can’t stop teams in big spots. Let’s see how they can adjust the rest of the season. Hopefully adding more receiving help by the deadline. Also fingers crossed that Keon can get better. 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

So we spent free agent money on Palmer Samuel and Moore.  Granted Samuel has been injured a bunch, but when he has been on the field, why aren't building our offense around guys we are paying decent money to as free agents?  If we are bringing them in, why aren't we using them more down the field?  Moore was solid in Cleveland with bad QB's.  Palmer was better in LA, than he has been w us.  And Samuel has had his moments over the years.  A good team knows what their plan is for every player on the roster.  We just put guys away in the closet.  Its ridiculous.  And doesn't Josh have any say in the offense?  He is the team.  He needs to take charge of the organization.  Because he is the organization.  If McDermott Beane do not realize this, Pegula needs to kick some ass real quick.  And if this continues through the rest of the season.  Blow the whole thing up, and start fresh with Josh, Cook, Kincaid and the O line.  Keep Deone Walker and Hoecht if he plays well on defense with Hairston Strong and Hancock,  and everyone else can be on the trading block if there is value to be had.  

Samuel, Palmer and Moore all had track records as role players. We overpaid for role players. The AAV of Samuel and Palmer is $18Mish. I’m suggesting that $18M would be WAY better served on one good WR and then the 2nd spot should be filled by a mid round draft pick (like Gabe Davis was). 
 

I think that the problem isn’t how they’re being used as much is it’s “they aren’t very good.” The same goes for Keon. Every guy is playing at a position on the depth chart above their ability (except Shakir). What’s happening is we have 3’s and 4’s playing as 1’s and 2’s. You have guys like Christian Gonzalez lining up across from Palmer and Coleman. 🤣🤣 That’s a total mismatch. If the Bills addressed the TOP of their depth chart (need a 1 AND 2 IMO) that would move everyone to their more natural fit. There’s pretty much never a time that the guys on the outside are lining up across from a player that they’re better than.

[Gunsgoodtime]

Josh Allen

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Samuel, Palmer and Moore all had track records as role players. We overpaid for role players. The AAV of Samuel and Palmer is $18Mish. I’m suggesting that $18M would be WAY better served on one good WR and then the 2nd spot should be filled by a mid round draft pick (like Gabe Davis was). 
 

I think that the problem isn’t how they’re being used as much is it’s “they aren’t very good.” The same goes for Keon. Every guy is playing at a position on the depth chart above their ability (except Shakir). What’s happening is we have 3’s and 4’s playing as 1’s and 2’s. You have guys like Christian Gonzalez lining up across from Palmer and Coleman. 🤣🤣 That’s a total mismatch. If the Bills addressed the TOP of their depth chart (need a 1 AND 2 IMO) that would move everyone to their more natural fit. There’s pretty much never a time that the guys on the outside are lining up across from a player that they’re better than.

Who cares about the top end we are "Backloaded" 

[90sBills]

26 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I think you're forgetting a pass catcher who happens to be engaged to someone famous and helped with their ensemble WR group.  Can't place his name, but I think he's pretty good and probably influenced personnel decisions at WR.  

 

As for the post-Tyreek SB win in 2022...Juju had a good season, MVS was better than replacement level...and then there was that guy engaged to the famous person.  Not exactly "everybody eats" quality of pass catchers.  In 2023, it was Rashee Rice showing up as a rookie...having 500+ yards receiving in his final 6 regular season games.  

 

KC didn't do "everybody eats" and comparisons to it are absurd. 

 

 

From Reid to Mahomes to that famous guy literally said they were spreading it around with no clear cut #1 target that year. It may be that I watch more general NFL football coverage than just Bills so my perspective made be more macro and not confine to just Bills. 

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

The first season after trading Tyreek they avg 29.2 ppg (1st) and won the Super Bowl. That’s with MVS and JuJu as the main receivers along with Kelce. The next two years, like you said, their offense wasn’t as good and but they adjusted and still got to where they want to go.

 

Yep KC's offense took people by surprise in 2022. Defenses were still playing them like they had Tyreek Hill. In 2023 defenses adjusted to take away the easy short field completions and suddenly their offense started to struggle. So since then they have invested a ton into their WR room, and now right when their defense has fallen off a bit they have a passing offense to make up for it. That's what a forward thinking organization does. Adjust on the fly to work with the pieces you have, but don't get complacent just because you're able to make those pieces work for a short time. The Bills on the contrary are stuck in neutral. Whatever worked last year, just do it again. It turns out simply running everything back was the wrong strategy, as many people on here predicted. KC every year takes on a new identity.

[90sBills]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yep KC's offense took people by surprise in 2022. Defenses were still playing them like they had Tyreek Hill. In 2023 defenses adjusted to take away the easy short field completions and suddenly their offense started to struggle. So since then they have invested a ton into their WR room, and now right when their defense has fallen off a bit they have a passing offense to make up for it. That's what a forward thinking organization does. Adjust on the fly to work with the pieces you have, but don't get complacent just because you're able to make those pieces work for a short time. The Bills on the contrary are stuck in neutral. Whatever worked last year, just do it again. It turns out simply running everything back was the wrong strategy, as many people on here predicted. KC every year takes on a new identity.

This is the part that a lot of us are frustrated with the management of this team. It’s a shortcoming that the leadership needs to recognize and improve. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

22 hours ago, Sweats said:

Honest question.......

 

What is our team identity?

 

I mean, we're not a run first or pass first team. We're not a down your throat running team. We're not a finesse passing team. We're not field stretchers.........and on D, we're not aggressive, we're not "in your face", we're not tough, etc.

"Taking what the defense gives us" is not an identity, it's a system.

 

I have tried to figure out an identity to describe this team and how it plays and i have no clue.

I have no freaking clue what the offensive identity is the past 2 weeks. I guess put the game on Josh Allen and hope for the best. 

The defensive identity is to let the other team march down the field with time consuming touchdown drives while converting impossible 3rd and longs in the process. I call it the “bend AND break” Tampon 2 defense. 

[Peace Frog]

The #1 problem with this team is hits vs. misses when it comes to draft picks in the first 3 rounds of the Beane era.