The Ray Davis-backup running back discussion

[TBBills Fan]

So Ray Davis said he dropped about 15 lbs and wanted to be more elusive. However, that is not what brought him to the big leagues and so far this year we are seeing a much less productive Ray Davis. 

 

In the preseason he looked awful and so far this year he has looked awful.

 

So I am curious as to if the staff will use a call up soon on Frank Gore Jr, put him in Davis role, make Davis inactive and see if that is an upgrade. 

 

We have 3 call ups, so at one point would you say, ok let's see what Gore can do for us this year?

 

After all, Gore ran behind the same backups that Davis did in preseason and looked much better. 

 

Goes stats in 2025 

11 carries, 29 yards, 2.6 yards per attempt. 

 

We will need someone to spell Cook...

 

So if you had a say, would you give Gore a call up and make Ray inactive to see if this helps. And if so, how long a leash are you giving Davis before you do this?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/4429501/ray-davis

 

We can't expect Cook or any running back to have almost 400 touches....

Edited 3 hours ago by TBBills Fan

[Magox]

He and Ty Johnson have definitely not looked as good so far, but I think that is primarily due to a lack of snaps and in preseason there really weren't many holes.   I do think that he and Ty look more hesitant, I wouldn't give up on them yet.

[gonzo1105]

Neither Davis nor Johnson have really gotten many opportunities to even play this year. That’s a good thing with Cook being so dominant early in the year 

[TBBills Fan]

36 minutes ago, Magox said:

He and Ty Johnson have definitely not looked as good so far, but I think that is primarily due to a lack of snaps and in preseason there really weren't many holes.   I do think that he and Ty look more hesitant, I wouldn't give up on them yet.

Not saying give up on them

 

I think Ty has looked better in his limited opportunities. 

 

So if we see Ray continue to avg under 3 yards per carry, at what point do you give Gore a try?

34 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Neither Davis nor Johnson have really gotten many opportunities to even play this year. That’s a good thing with Cook being so dominant early in the year 

I agree cook is a monster.  But we are not watching the same Ray Davis.   

 

Is cook getting more opportunities because the coaches have no faith in Ray (and maybe Ty)?

Edited 2 hours ago by TBBills Fan

[gonzo1105]

2 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

Not saying give up on them

 

I think Ty has looked better in his limited opportunities. 

 

So if we see Ray continue to avg under 3 yards per carry, at what point do you give Gore a try?

I agree cook is a monster.  But we are not watching the same Ray Davis.   

 

Is cool getting more opportunities because the coaches have no faith in Ray (and maybe Ty)?

 

I would venture a guess he's playing more because he is their 2nd best offensive player and is playing out of his mind right now and they just gave him a massive extension. Yes, I think there is a big step down from Cook to the other two but I mean Cook is pretty damn good. 

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Neither Davis nor Johnson have really gotten many opportunities to even play this year. That’s a good thing with Cook being so dominant early in the year 

 

Yep.

 

They aren't as good as Cook but if you get these guys into rhythm, they'll produce.

[TBBills Fan]

2 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

I would venture a guess he's playing more because he is their 2nd best offensive player and is playing out of his mind right now and they just gave him a massive extension. Yes, I think there is a big step down from Cook to the other two but I mean Cook is pretty damn good. 

He is but it's a long season and he has 87 touches already. He is pacing 370 for the year plus we got 4 playoff games to play

 

I want him there those last 4

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yep.

 

They aren't as good as Cook but if you get these guys into rhythm, they'll produce.

I agree with you on Ty.  ButRay has shown nothing

[3rdand12]

10 minutes ago, Magox said:

He and Ty Johnson have definitely not looked as good so far, but I think that is primarily due to a lack of snaps and in preseason there really weren't many holes.   I do think that he and Ty look more hesitant, I wouldn't give up on them yet.

Play calling might help them

Running Ty inside may not be his strength  lol

 Brady needs to figure this out soon. Davis should look better with more reps

[T.E.]

Maybe I'm misremembering last season, but Davis somehow also seemed more explosive when he was heavier.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, TBBills Fan said:

I agree with you on Ty.  ButRay has shown nothing

 

He started slow last year too but by the end of the season was really taking advantage of his opportunities.

We've seen some ability from him to get skinny and make hay in limited space; I don't really recall him getting any kind of space to work with this year.

[Alphadawg7]

You can't judge a RB who gets a random touch here and there and thats it.  RB's need Rhythm, they need to feel the OL, the defense, etc.  Then you have the factor that in a lot of Davis carries they are mostly obviously running situations and the defense responds accordingly.  Davis is not getting the same type of touches that Cook gets who gets them on downs where we can be passing or running.  Davis is getting a random touch here and there on more obviously running downs and with no creativity.  And if you actually look at the carries, there are no holes, the play is getting blown up, its not Davis failing to see a hole.

 

This is what happens when people use a stat sheet despite the sample size is so small and the use case context is not considered. You get misleading conclusions.  I am not saying Davis is the next Cook, but he has proven he can play, and his lack of production is almost entirely rooted in the fact the plays and blocking themselves failed on the play more than anything Davis did poorly.  

 

I am not concerned at this point, not until I see him get some relevant carries that demonstrate he is the reason for the lack of success of better production on those carries.  Cook has been playing out of his mind, and they have been riding his hot feet is what the real biggest factor is.  Like others, I dont want to see this amount of carries continue for Cook, and I expect they will start to try and get the touches down some as the season goes on.  But Cook is also VERY good at avoiding hard contact and big hits.  So while there are a lot of carries, hes not taking on the same kind of physicality that comes with it like a Jacobs, Henry, Saquan, etc would be on this many touches where the power run game is a bigger part of their carries.  

[TBBills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

He started slow last year too but by the end of the season was really taking advantage of his opportunities.

We've seen some ability from him to get skinny and make hay in limited space; I don't really recall him getting any kind of space to work with this year.

The jets game, which was his breakout game was week 5 I think. 

 

And I'm not saying give up on him, but he does not look like the same back. And yes it was pre season, but at what point would you use a Gore call up to see if there is a difference. 

 

I think I'd want to see now or in the next few weeks. Someone to take some burden off cook will help us in January

 

McD loves rotations. I think they don't like what they see either and that is why you see his touches way down. He has spoken about cooks usage a bit in pressers..

 

I'm not saying get rid of anyone. But at some point if he continues averaging 2.6 yards a carry and looking bad, they are gonna have to take a look. 

 

I'd rather they look sooner or in the next few weeks before we hit the Bye and KC. 

10 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Maybe I'm misremembering last season, but Davis somehow also seemed more explosive when he was heavier.

I think so as well

 

Even in preseason he has looked horrible to my untrained but passionate life long fan eyes

[mannc]

22 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Neither Davis nor Johnson have really gotten many opportunities to even play this year. That’s a good thing with Cook being so dominant early in the year 

Johnson has about the same number of touches as last year.  Davis is the problem.

[3rdand12]

I feel it is really about reps , or getting a series in. To get in the flow.

Ty you can pop in for that play getting him some space and or outside the hashes

[TBBills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You can't judge a RB who gets a random touch here and there and thats it.  RB's need Rhythm, they need to feel the OL, the defense, etc.  Then you have the factor that in a lot of Davis carries they are mostly obviously running situations and the defense responds accordingly.  Davis is not getting the same type of touches that Cook gets who gets them on downs where we can be passing or running.  Davis is getting a random touch here and there on more obviously running downs and with no creativity.  And if you actually look at the carries, there are no holes, the play is getting blown up, its not Davis failing to see a hole.

 

This is what happens when people use a stat sheet despite the sample size is so small and the use case context is not considered. You get misleading conclusions.  I am not saying Davis is the next Cook, but he has proven he can play, and his lack of production is almost entirely rooted in the fact the plays and blocking themselves failed on the play more than anything Davis did poorly.  

 

I am not concerned at this point, not until I see him get some relevant carries that demonstrate he is the reason for the lack of success of better production on those carries.  Cook has been playing out of his mind, and they have been riding his hot feet is what the real biggest factor is.  Like others, I dont want to see this amount of carries continue for Cook, and I expect they will start to try and get the touches down some as the season goes on.  But Cook is also VERY good at avoiding hard contact and big hits.  So while there are a lot of carries, hes not taking on the same kind of physicality that comes with it like a Jacobs, Henry, Saquan, etc would be on this many touches where the power run game is a bigger part of their carries.  

That stats back up what I'm seeing though 

 

I don't see a reliable back up in him this year. Maybe it's the weight lost because his approach and body type he is striving for is different. 

 

 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

And I'm not saying give up on him, but he does not look like the same back. And yes it was pre season, but at what point would you use a Gore call up to see if there is a difference. 

 

The guy has maybe 10 touches this year and I think they've only thrown one ball at him.

That's nowhere near enough a trend for me to want to consider using call-ups in October.

[TBBills Fan]

Just now, 3rdand12 said:

I feel it is really about reps , or getting a series in. To get in the flow.

Ty you can pop in for that play getting him some space and or outside the hashes

That's right. Ty can produce if given a random few plays here or there

 

Davis could last year as well. 

 

Why can't Davis do it this year....so far?

Just now, Simon said:

 

The guy has maybe 10 touches this year and I think they've only thrown one ball at him.

That's nowhere near enough a trend for me to want to consider using call-ups in October.

That's fair. Patience was never my strong suit. But if it continues, is that going to be our only course of action?

[gonzo1105]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Johnson has about the same number of touches as last year.  Davis is the problem.

I don’t know how anyone can draw that opinion when a guy has 11 carries on the season, Johnson has 8. Combined the two are averaging less than 5 carries a game. Hardly any data to draw any conclusion beyond peoples beliefs

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The guy has maybe 10 touches this year and I think they've only thrown one ball at him.

That's nowhere near enough a trend for me to want to consider using call-ups in October.

There is a reason Davis is getting far fewer touches.  I expect they will up his usage the next 2 games, and if there is nothing to show for it, make some kind of move.

[TBBills Fan]

2 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I don’t know how anyone can draw that opinion when a guy has 11 carries on the season, Johnson has 8. Combined the two are averaging less than 5 carries a game. Hardly any data to draw any conclusion beyond peoples beliefs

Add in his preseason numbers and that is about a games worth of stats 

And yuck

Just now, mannc said:

There is a reason Davis is getting far fewer touches.  I expect they will up his usage the next 2 games, and if there is nothing to show for it, make some kind of move.

That makes sense. 

 

I don't think that move comes from outside, I'd like to first see Gore get a call up or two to see if it's him.  

 

Another option is Ty gets more touches. 

 

Then we look outside.