SCBills Posted September 9 Posted September 9 (edited) QB - Bills OL - Bills RB - Ravens TE - Push WR - Push DL - Bills LB - Push CB - Push S - Ravens If you go by position, it seems pretty even. And I’ll admit, some of my breakdown is biased as I believe in the potential of Keon & Palmer.. the potential of Kincaid, Knox & Hawes. Ravens DL is far stronger against the run, but Bills DL has far more pass rushing potential. The issue is that Henry is so much better than any weapon we have. And the Ravens Safeties are so much better than anything we have. Henry changes the entire dynamic because he’s a legitimate MVP candidate next to Lamar. On the backend, we currently might have one of the worst Safety situations in the NFL, whereas the Ravens have a DPOY candidate back there alongside a RD1 pick. The high end talent of Henry and Hamilton alongside Lamar clears, by far, the high end talent we have alongside Josh. Which.. rinse and repeat… its been this way for a while amongst all Josh’s peers. Edited September 9 by SCBills 1 Quote
mjt328 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 I understand the need for Bills/Ravens fans to argue over who is better. But at the end of the day, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are both incredible players who will almost certainly be 1st-ballot Hall of Famers in the future. Since coming into the league, they have similar records and similar team success. They have similar statistics and numbers. Jackson has two MVPs and Allen one. But both were close runners-up the years they didn't win. And both are struggling at the same thing in dethroning the Chiefs to win a ring. Jackson is faster and more elusive. Allen is bigger and more powerful. The play Jackson made Sunday night to escape the sack was only something he can do. But I've also seen Allen stiff-arm and truck over defenders for extra yardage, which is something only he can do. Both put defenses in impossible situations of defending both run/pass. Both can extend plays for almost infinite amounts of time. To me, there is one reason that Allen gets the edge. When defenses find a way to put the Ravens into situations where they absolutely must pass to win (which is very rare), Jackson's effectiveness does drop. In other words, Jackson can obviously pick apart a defense with his arm... but he usually needs the threat of his legs in order to consistently do that 30-40 times per game. Allen has proven more times that he can be dangerous from the pocket, even when teams aren't worried about his legs. 2 Quote
Lost Posted September 9 Author Posted September 9 2 minutes ago, SCBills said: The issue is that Henry is so much better than any weapon we have. And the Ravens Safeties are so much better than anything we have. Henry changes the entire dynamic because he’s a legitimate MVP candidate next to Lamar. On the backend, we currently might have one of the worst Safety situations in the NFL, whereas the Ravens have a DPOY candidate back there alongside a RD1 pick. The high end talent of Henry and Hamilton alongside Lamar clears, by far, the high end talent we have alongside Josh. Thanks. This is what I was trying to allude to in one of my earlier posts but you stated it more clearly. 1 Quote
YattaOkasan Posted September 9 Posted September 9 (edited) Maybe this conversation is missing the weight of rushing versus passing. If both are equal maybe it’s fair to say the ravens are clearly better. But passing is more important and we clearly have the better QB (for passing), pass rush, and pass catching backs. Ravens are great on the ground but passing > rushing. Edited September 9 by YattaOkasan Quote
mjt328 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 1 hour ago, SCBills said: QB - Bills OL - Bills RB - Ravens TE - Push WR - Push DL - Bills LB - Push CB - Push S - Ravens If you go by position, it seems pretty even. And I’ll admit, some of my breakdown is biased as I believe in the potential of Keon & Palmer.. the potential of Kincaid, Knox & Hawes. Ravens DL is far stronger against the run, but Bills DL has far more pass rushing potential. The issue is that Henry is so much better than any weapon we have. And the Ravens Safeties are so much better than anything we have. Henry changes the entire dynamic because he’s a legitimate MVP candidate next to Lamar. On the backend, we currently might have one of the worst Safety situations in the NFL, whereas the Ravens have a DPOY candidate back there alongside a RD1 pick. The high end talent of Henry and Hamilton alongside Lamar clears, by far, the high end talent we have alongside Josh. Which.. rinse and repeat… its been this way for a while amongst all Josh’s peers. Derrick Henry is undoubtedly a better player than James Cook. But the difference is not an infinite chasm the Bills fall behind in. Let's not forget that Cook has made the Pro Bowl the last 2 years, and has the ability to go the distance on any play from scrimmage. He did just that on Sunday night. Defenses have to stack the box against Henry. But it's not like they can just ignore Cook. Football is not just about individual players standing out. It's about how ALL the pieces work together as a whole. The Bills don't get a lot of individual accolades, but they play together as a TEAM better than almost anyone in the NFL. And their depth is exceptional when injuries hit. So people can say all they want that we don't match-up with the Ravens in terms of talent. But last year we scored 30.9 points per game, and they scored 30.5. Meanwhile, we gave up 21.6 and they gave up 21.2 ppg. It's not just a two-game fluke. Quote
HappyDays Posted September 9 Posted September 9 18 hours ago, Mat68 said: I have never seen so many media members talk about how bad the Bills defense was. How they could not make a stop yet the Raven gave up more points and yards… The difference is Baltimore was just running their normal offense picking up chunks and long TDs almost at will. Lamar only had to make one special play. Most of their receptions were made with wide open space around the pass catcher. They were opening up truck-sized gaps in the run game. Meanwhile on our side our pass catchers were usually tackled right after the catch, if they were able to separate at all. Cook had very little space to work with in the run game. Allen had to pull a rabbit out of a hat like a dozen different times just to keep us in the game. So it was pretty obvious watching the game that their defense was performing much better than ours, Allen just happens to be a one man machine who can and did singlehandedly erase that gap. 1 1 Quote
Buffalo716 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: The difference is Baltimore was just running their normal offense picking up chunks and long TDs almost at will. Lamar only had to make one special play. Most of their receptions were made with wide open space around the pass catcher. They were opening up truck-sized gaps in the run game. Meanwhile on our side our pass catchers were usually tackled right after the catch, if they were able to separate at all. Cook had very little space to work with in the run game. Allen had to pull a rabbit out of a hat like a dozen different times just to keep us in the game. So it was pretty obvious watching the game that their defense was performing much better than ours, Allen just happens to be a one man machine who can and did singlehandedly erase that gap. Baltimores normal offense is a lot more gimmicky than the bills offense and that makes it a tough stop early in season It's heavy play action, heavy option, rpo We do some of that too but Josh Allen drops back and throws 25-30 times Out of pro sets That's not really Ravens game Edited September 9 by Buffalo716 Quote
PromoTheRobot Posted September 9 Posted September 9 On paper and on the field: BETTER. But Buffalo has Josh and the Bills want it more. Quote
Lost Posted September 9 Author Posted September 9 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Baltimores normal offense is a lot more gimmicky than the bills offense and that makes it a tough stop early in season It's heavy play action, heavy RPO , heavy option Josh Allen drops back and throws 25-30 times.. Lamar doesn't and when he has too usually doesn't look too pretty Lamar averaged 27 pass attempts per game last season and he was 6th in passing yardage and 1st in QB rating. What isn't too pretty about that? Quote
zow2 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 Some people will disagree.. but I think the Ravens played their A- game on Sunday night. Other than the first drive and the final 4:50 of the game they were superb. The Henry fumble and the poor coverage at the end doomed them. On the flip side I feel like the Bills played mostly a C+ game till the final 4:50. They were gashed and dominated in the trenches on D. For a huge chunks of the game the O was contained. Bottom line, if/when they meet again in January I think Buffalo will give us their A game and this narrative that the Ravens have such better players will be proven to be nonsense. Quote
Buffalo716 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Lost said: Lamar averaged 27 pass attempts per game last season and he was 6th in passing yardage and 1st in QB rating. What isn't too pretty about that? I just said the style of the offense they run is gimmicky It's heavy play action centric and option centric ... The bills from behind doesn't hurt the offense as much because Josh Allen can take over a game with his arm... Lamar down 15 doesn't have that arm talent ability to consistently win from the pocket without the threat of a running game.. Derrick Henry and heavy play action opens up Lamar Jackson's passing more Josh Allen lines up in pro style sets, takes 3-5 step drops throws 25-30 times a game Lamar might throw 25-30 times but he's not lining up in pro style offense and just taking 3 step drops and slinging it consistently that's the difference between the offenses and the QBs... Both are insanely talented... Josh can use his arm to come back down double digits without the threat of a running game easier Lamar Jackson is not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady he's not a field general and Josh Allen is becoming that... You'll never see Lamar Jackson make that throw that Allen made to Palmer on that corner route with game on the line There's two or three quarterbacks in the world who can make that throw and Lamar isn't one Edited September 9 by Buffalo716 Quote
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