Wolfgang Posted July 26 Posted July 26 2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: yeah, i prefer to think there are still decent people in the world. And there are. How stupid... You say that... While the world sits back and watches a genocide... My point had nothing to do with the "decency" of people... It had to do with the obvious business model of genocide to clear the way for over a trillion dollars in energy investments... You think the wealthy energy billionaires (princes) of SA, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar and Dubai give a damn about the Palestinians? What have they said and done about it in the past few years? The answer is nothing...
Pokebball Posted July 26 Posted July 26 3 hours ago, SectionC3 said: I agree with this, to a point. But starving out the children there is not a solution. This is nuts. A blight on humanity. No doubt that it's a blight on humanity 2
Joe Ferguson forever Posted July 26 Posted July 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wolfgang said: How stupid... You say that... While the world sits back and watches a genocide... My point had nothing to do with the "decency" of people... It had to do with the obvious business model of genocide to clear the way for over a trillion dollars in energy investments... You think the wealthy energy billionaires (princes) of SA, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar and Dubai give a damn about the Palestinians? What have they said and done about it in the past few years? The answer is nothing... cynicism, while possibly indiicated, is a dark way. Yeah, the middle east is breaming 2with barbarians. We don't have to stay on the sidelines, much less, send Israel billions every year for weapons they use to exterminate Palestinians. Edited July 26 by Joe Ferguson forever
nedboy7 Posted July 26 Posted July 26 (edited) Who knows. Top news on Fox is AOC. Edited July 26 by nedboy7 1
TH3 Posted July 26 Posted July 26 5 hours ago, sherpa said: That's the problem when you cause something. At some point you need to admit responsibility, and as horrible as the consequences are, you caused it. Hamas took billions in humanitarian aid over the years and diverted it into an underground labyrinth designed for the sole purpose of destroying Israel. They then launched this madness on Oct 7 going into bedrooms and slaughtering women and babies, filming these atrocities. Then, as they always do, hid behind innocent civilians, intentionally sacrificing them to the response they must have known was coming. Want to solve this? The Israelis have provided that answer for over a year. Get rid of Hamas and it ends. Solid retread talking points…problem is…the world ain’t buying them anymore 2 1 1
Wolfgang Posted July 26 Posted July 26 51 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: cynicism, while possibly indiicated, is a dark way. Yeah, the middle east is breaming 2with barbarians. We don't have to stay on the sidelines, much less, send Israel billions every year for weapons they use to exterminate Palestinians. Does Israel have nuclear weapons?
Andy1 Posted July 26 Posted July 26 Israeli soldiers shooting people at the food distribution sites is just sick and evil. Hamas is pure evil. Israel is murdering civilians daily and intentionally forcing mass starvation onto the people there. There is a lot of food sitting over there because aid workers can’t trust Israel to not kill them when they distribute it. Forcing mass starvation is genocide, so the answer is Yes. 3 1
SectionC3 Posted July 26 Posted July 26 6 hours ago, sherpa said: And obviously, I don't disagree. The problem is what it always is, and has been played out time and time again. Israel gets attacked. they defend themselves successfully. The aggressor creates a humanitarian crisis that they are now supposed to fix, all the while supporting that humanitarian crises. Same tune, over and over. This isn't defense. This is retribution. At the expense of little kids. If the purpose was to force the return the hostages in exchange for food/water/medicine, then I get it. But that's not what this is about. This is cold, calculated mass retribution. 2
Joe Ferguson forever Posted July 26 Posted July 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, Wolfgang said: Does Israel have nuclear weapons? yes. is everything transactional to you? Perhaps if we didn't giv4 them billions every year and didn't share info they wouldn't. but that ship has sailed, How bout we look out for the innocents and powerless? We could and should do more, Edited July 26 by Joe Ferguson forever 1
Wolfgang Posted July 26 Posted July 26 3 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: yes. is everything transactional to you? Perhaps if we didn't giv4 them billions every year and didn't share info they wouldn't. but that ship has sailed, How bout we look out for the innocents and powerless? We could and should do more, Your arrogant and condescending tone is cute... You speak as if I support giving Israel billions... I never did... Back to the nukes... You agree that Israel has nukes, correct? Where did they get them from? How many do they have?
sherpa Posted July 26 Posted July 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, Wolfgang said: You agree that Israel has nukes, correct? Where did they get them from? How many do they have? They built them themselves, quite a while ago. While they have never publicly admitted it, estimates range from 90 to a few hundred, but the higher numbers probably are simply based on plutonium ready for use, not actual weapons. They can launch them any of the three usual ways; airplane strikes, submarine launched or using land launched missiles. Late addition: By the way, the methodology suggesting how Israel got the nuclear material years ago is a really interesting story. Edited July 26 by sherpa
sherpa Posted July 26 Posted July 26 10 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: yeah, i prefer to think there are still decent people in the world. And there are. I believe that also. But I also know that a Palestinian homeland has been offered three times, and each time was rejected by whomever the "Palestinian leadership" was at the time. I also know that Gaza has deliberately chosen Hamas wince 2007, and all they have done is create an invasion territory underground, launched thousands and thousands of Iranian supplied largely unguided missiles into Israel, stolen hundredds of billions in humanitarian aid and killed scores of Israeli citizens. Hamas' only purpose is to attack Israel. There is no single entity on the Palestinian side that does not advocate and take specific action to eliminate Israel. Ergo, there is nobody to have any reasonable, peace seeking negotiations with. What is going on is horrific, but as the Israeli gov has stated countless times, get rid of Hamas and this ends now.
Wolfgang Posted July 26 Posted July 26 27 minutes ago, sherpa said: They built them themselves, quite a while ago. While they have never publicly admitted it, estimates range from 90 to a few hundred, but the higher numbers probably are simply based on plutonium ready for use, not actual weapons. They can launch them any of the three usual ways; airplane strikes, submarine launched or using land launched missiles. Late addition: By the way, the methodology suggesting how Israel got the nuclear material years ago is a really interesting story. Why do we not have accurate accounting as to what Israel has in terms of nuclear weapons?
Wolfgang Posted July 26 Posted July 26 17 minutes ago, sherpa said: I believe that also. But I also know that a Palestinian homeland has been offered three times, and each time was rejected by whomever the "Palestinian leadership" was at the time. I also know that Gaza has deliberately chosen Hamas wince 2007, and all they have done is create an invasion territory underground, launched thousands and thousands of Iranian supplied largely unguided missiles into Israel, stolen hundredds of billions in humanitarian aid and killed scores of Israeli citizens. Hamas' only purpose is to attack Israel. There is no single entity on the Palestinian side that does not advocate and take specific action to eliminate Israel. Ergo, there is nobody to have any reasonable, peace seeking negotiations with. What is going on is horrific, but as the Israeli gov has stated countless times, get rid of Hamas and this ends now. You keep skipping over the part where Hamas was created by Israel... Also, Israel was briefed by US intelligence that such an attack was being planned a full year before 10/7/23... How could such a primitive attack on the vaunted Iron Dome be successful without a stand down of IDF forces? Hamas is the perfect excuse to invade beyond their borders... How many trillions of dollars are at stake in the rebuilding of Gaza, without Palestinians, and the development of their offshore energy deposits?
sherpa Posted July 26 Posted July 26 44 minutes ago, Wolfgang said: You keep skipping over the part where Hamas was created by Israel... Also, Israel was briefed by US intelligence that such an attack was being planned a full year before 10/7/23... How could such a primitive attack on the vaunted Iron Dome be successful without a stand down of IDF forces? Hamas is the perfect excuse to invade beyond their borders... How many trillions of dollars are at stake in the rebuilding of Gaza, without Palestinians, and the development of their offshore energy deposits? A few thoughts on this. Israel getting "briefed" by the US very likely isn't meaningful. Warnings of this sort happen all the time across the world, kind of like the US was warned about an attack prior to 9-11. There's probably twenty warnings for any event that occurs, and they must be considered and judged. The Israelis thought they had a pretty good grasp of Hamas' intentions prior to Oct 7, and they were dreadfully wrong. In fact, I was listening to the ex Israeli Ambassador to the US a few months ago and he stated that the general Israeli population lost a great deal of confidence in their domestic intel agency. By "primitive attack," are you referring to Oct 7? That was a ground invasion. Iron Dome is a very sophisticated air defense system which can still be overcome by numbers saturation, as all systems can. Israel has absolutely nothing to do with what Hamas has become under the command of Iran. I have no view on an energy component to this situation. We certainly don't need it. Again, the Palestinians have been offered a home state option three times, and refused each. Now they have no leader that the Israelis or the rest of the world can negotiate with. 1 hour ago, Wolfgang said: Why do we not have accurate accounting as to what Israel has in terms of nuclear weapons? Because Israel is a sovereign nation under no obligation to reveal this info, and they are not signatories to any non proliferation treaties.
Wolfgang Posted July 26 Posted July 26 4 minutes ago, sherpa said: A few thoughts on this. Israel getting "briefed" by the US very likely isn't meaningful. Warnings of this sort happen all the time across the world, kind of like the US was warned about an attack prior to 9-11. There's probably twenty warnings for any event that occurs, and they must be considered and judged. The Israelis thought they had a pretty good grasp of Hamas' intentions prior to Oct 7, and they were dreadfully wrong. In fact, I was listening to the ex Israeli Ambassador to the US a few months ago and he stated that the general Israeli population lost a great deal of confidence in their domestic intel agency. By "primitive attack," are you referring to Oct 7? That was a ground invasion. Iron Dome is a very sophisticated air defense system which can still be overcome by numbers saturation, as all systems can. Israel has absolutely nothing to do with what Hamas has become under the command of Iran. I have no view on an energy component to this situation. We certainly don't need it. Again, the Palestinians have been offered a home state option three times, and refused each. Now they have no leader that the Israelis or the rest of the world can negotiate with. Because Israel is a sovereign nation under no obligation to reveal this info, and they are not signatories to any non proliferation treaties. Would you consider yourself a zionist?
sherpa Posted July 26 Posted July 26 Just now, Wolfgang said: Would you consider yourself a zionist? No. Just someone who has been watching this and paying attention for a very long time, and at times, very closely in the physical sense.
Wolfgang Posted July 26 Posted July 26 1 minute ago, sherpa said: No. Just someone who has been watching this and paying attention for a very long time, and at times, very closely in the physical sense. Interesting... And yet you haven't examined at all the for profit motive to this ongoing scenario? Energy investment implications?
JDHillFan Posted July 26 Posted July 26 5 minutes ago, Wolfgang said: Interesting... And yet you haven't examined at all the for profit motive to this ongoing scenario? Energy investment implications? You have posed a lot of shadowy questions. Why not just provide some facts that can be researched/verified? 1
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