Ranking the 15 greatest Bills ever

[JP51]

On 6/12/2025 at 10:12 PM, The Jokeman said:

Put Allen on those Super Bowl teams and bet we win at least 1 if not 2 of those games. Put Kelly in the current edition of Bills and don't think we get as far. Sorry but Kelly has a way better cast around him than Josh has. 

I am with you, I am a big believer in longevity, however, I believe when all is said and done he will be known as the best Bill for a very very very long time... generational is rare... he is generational. 

[Ballsy]

On 6/14/2025 at 6:59 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

So Trent Dilfer is better than Allen? Jalen Hurts? Brad Johnson? Nick Foles? Jeff Hostetler? Those guys must be better than Kelly too because they WON Super Bowls. That’s the dumbest argument ever made

I never said Kelly was better. I was saying that your statement that there is not ONE thing Kelly did better than Josh is wrong. 
 

Kelly was clearly better at making it to Superbowls. 
 

let’s hope that changes for Josh

[Gregg]

38 minutes ago, Ballsy said:

I never said Kelly was better. I was saying that your statement that there is not ONE thing Kelly did better than Josh is wrong. 
 

Kelly was clearly better at making it to Superbowls. 
 

let’s hope that changes for Josh

 

It will change for Josh when the defense finally shows up in a big spot in the playoffs. Those Bills teams Kelly was on had a game changer on defense with #78. This Bills defense has nobody that is remotely close to being as dominant as #78 was.

[JP51]

46 minutes ago, Ballsy said:

I never said Kelly was better. I was saying that your statement that there is not ONE thing Kelly did better than Josh is wrong. 
 

Kelly was clearly better at making it to Superbowls. 
 

let’s hope that changes for Josh

Sorry got to jump in here...  I am failing to see the Superbowl thing, so under this theory, Frank Reich was better than Josh at making in to Superbowl's... or Jamie Mueller... or Gale Gilbert...So are we suggesting we take Gale or Jamie over Josh?  So I am not sure if you are just busting chops or being a smidge tongue in cheek...  If so, you got me good LOL... as I write this long winded response.... 😆  but if you are not... 

 

I am not sure of the intent of this comparison.... Like, Jamie Mueller or Frank Riech or Gale Gilbert should be lauded for their ability to make Super Bowls... ?   I guess ... Not sure how this is an assessment of their abilities... or that makes them better than Josh at anything...  I suppose you could say, "You said that Kelly was better than Josh at nothing... but I know for a fact he could kick is a$$ in a beer drinking contest...."  Ok you got me...  that's kinda where I sit... fact, but not a relevant one in comparing two players... 

 

Now, If you are saying that it was an actual ability or skill that Kelly had that was better than Josh other than just being situationally fortunate...    I am not sure what that skill was... like some clutch gene or something?  If so, I would say that is highly debatable... 

 

Now If it was just simply situational I am not sure that this makes Kelly better than Josh...  if you are arguing Kelly was blessed with more talent on his team in a weaker conference thus made it to more Superbowl's, I wouldn't call this better I would call this fortunate...If you are saying it was some performance or leadership intangible that Kelly had that propelled himself and his team to Super Bowls (remember Frank Riech propelled us as well) ... You are essentially saying that if you magically switched QBs... with eras that Kelly would do better with this team than Josh would do with the 90s teams.... if you are saying that, you are effectively saying that Kelly is better at much more than going to Super Bowls than Josh... 

 

BTW Welcome to the board ! 

Edited Monday at 02:28 PM by JP51

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 6/14/2025 at 8:05 PM, gonzo1105 said:

While I think your overreacting, I put him on the list because of his solid longevity. He’s been a Bill for 8 years. He most likely at minimum will be here for 10 years and has been a pro bowler 4 of those years(not that it means much nowadays) He’s probably honestly last on that list and will he probably seem like Kent Hull was when his career is over. 
 

I actually like McGee being mentioned again due to his longevity in the uniform. He’d probably be in the same tier as Dawkins in my opinion but I wouldn’t crush you or anyone else for mentioning him 

Sorry if I was over aggressive in my response about Dion Dawkins.  Its more of a cumulative thing with him, not you specifically.  I have just never thought of him as a special player.  A solid good player yes.  But special no.  And he just seems like a big self promoter too much for my taste.  He is an O lineman.  Act like one.  Do your job well.  Get paid well.  And noone needs to know a whole lot more about you.  You got a funky haircut with lamb chop side burns.  That makes you stand out already.

Anthony Munoz the best left tackle IMO of the modern era never blew his own horn.  Enough said.

 

As for Terrance McGhee, I was being more tongue in cheek mentioning him.  He was one of my favorite Bills players of the modern era for his skills as a return man and as a corner.  And he seemed like a real solid dude also.  Its too bad that injuries cut the prime of his career short I believe.  

On 6/14/2025 at 11:20 PM, Big Turk said:

 

It is not close. Not even remotely close.

 

Allen is the most productive player in the history of the NFL on a per game basis in both the regular and post season.

 

Allen is literally doing something nobody has ever done before 5-6x a season or more.

 

Kelly threw more than 30 TD passes one time. One!

 

Allen is so much better than Kelly it's a joke anyone would even compare them, let alone put Kelly higher because they have some nostalgic bias of misremembering Kelly's play here and thinking it was far better than it actually was.

 

Kelly was very good, but he was never even close to Allen's level either in play or talent.

 

And that's simply the inconvenient truth many don't want to admit. But I watched every game Kelly played in as a Bill and never saw Kelly do anything close to what Allen has.

 

Not even Jim Kelly himself would say he was better than Allen. No need for anyone else to.

I never said Kelly was a better player.  But Kelly was an awesome player and leader.  He had the charisma toughness and was a winner.  

 

And to say he was never close to Allen's level of talent (agree as a runner) or play is just ignorant on your part.   

 

And I watched all his games as well Turk.  

[Big Turk]

32 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Sorry if I was over aggressive in my response about Dion Dawkins.  Its more of a cumulative thing with him, not you specifically.  I have just never thought of him as a special player.  A solid good player yes.  But special no.  And he just seems like a big self promoter too much for my taste.  He is an O lineman.  Act like one.  Do your job well.  Get paid well.  And noone needs to know a whole lot more about you.  You got a funky haircut with lamb chop side burns.  That makes you stand out already.

Anthony Munoz the best left tackle IMO of the modern era never blew his own horn.  Enough said.

 

As for Terrance McGhee, I was being more tongue in cheek mentioning him.  He was one of my favorite Bills players of the modern era for his skills as a return man and as a corner.  And he seemed like a real solid dude also.  Its too bad that injuries cut the prime of his career short I believe.  

I never said Kelly was a better player.  But Kelly was an awesome player and leader.  He had the charisma toughness and was a winner.  

 

And to say he was never close to Allen's level of talent (agree as a runner) or play is just ignorant on your part.   

 

And I watched all his games as well Turk.  

 

Imagine what Allen would do with 3 HOF skill position players on offense with him.

 

The Bills might never lose a single game.

[BearNorth]

2 hours ago, Ballsy said:

 

Kelly was clearly better at making it to Superbowls. 
 

However 'The Comeback" was engineered by the Frankish Reich, who was the winning QB in 2 of the 4 post-season games in 1992. Kelly was 1-1 in the playoffs that season.

[Gregg]

33 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Imagine what Allen would do with 3 HOF skill position players on offense with him.

 

The Bills might never lose a single game.

 

Along with someone like 78 on the defensive side of the ball.

[LABILLBACKER]

51 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Imagine what Allen would do with 3 HOF skill position players on offense with him.

 

The Bills might never lose a single game.

And then throw in the best pass rusher in NFL history.  Even with Mahomes lurking around,  he would've taken the Bills to at least 2+ SB's surrounded by that kind of talent. 

[JP51]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

And then throw in the best pass rusher in NFL history.  Even with Mahomes lurking around,  he would've taken the Bills to at least 2+ SB's surrounded by that kind of talent. 

I am not sure that folks remember just how insanely loaded those teams were... the fact they did not win one was absolutely on the coaching staff...   I would rank the defensive players... as HOF/All Pro 

 

Smith

Bennett

Talley 

Conlan

L Smith 

Odomes

 

 

I think only Benford fits into this group... Maybe Milano in his prime when there was some healthy time... you could debate Bernard... but Bottom line the defense was stacked... 

 

The offense 4 HOFers 8 Pro Bowlers

 

Kelly

Reed

Lofton 

Thomas

Hull 

Ritcher

Wolford

Ballard 

 

I think Allen, Dawkins, if you go back to Diggs, maybe McGovern belong in this catagory...  Debate on Cook... not sure he really compares at this point to Thurman but sure throw him in.  

 

Bottom line is this team was loaded... I can only imagine what Josh would have done in that era... 

 

[The Jokeman]

4 hours ago, JP51 said:

I am with you, I am a big believer in longevity, however, I believe when all is said and done he will be known as the best Bill for a very very very long time... generational is rare... he is generational. 

I'm not disagreeing to me Allen a better than Kelly ever was. As Kelly had one great year in 1991 when he lead the league in TDs with 33 but after that he had a few seasons with 20 or a few in the teens. I've always felt Kelly was above average but never elite due to his seemingly playing his worst in the Super Bowl. Toss in he had some sugar high Josh moments when he threw interceptions that had no business being thrown. 

10 hours ago, Big Curt said:

OJ Simpson has to be #1 or 2 hands down. I understand he was a POS off the field, but he was one of the greatest NFL players in not just Bills history, but NFL history. Bruce is either #1 or #2; He's top 2 or 3 of defensive ends in NFL history.  Jim Kelly leading us to 4 SB'd as QB is #3.  Josh Allen is #4 because every year we're going the playoffs because of his otherworldly talent. #5 is Thurman Thomas because of is MVP. Leading the NFL in yards from scrimmage. 

Thurman was better than Kelly IMO. 

[JP51]

10 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'm not disagreeing to me Allen a better than Kelly ever was. As Kelly had one great year in 1991 when he lead the league in TDs with 33 but after that he had a few seasons with 20 or a few in the teens. I've always felt Kelly was above average but never elite due to his seemingly playing his worst in the Super Bowl. Toss in he had some sugar high Josh moments when he threw interceptions that had no business being thrown. 

Thurman was better than Kelly IMO. 

 Its hard to put Josh ahead of our legendary QB... right...  but in the end... Josh does things that Kelly could never do... his ability to run... throw off of a scramble ... avoid drive ending sacks... Jimbo never had...  Jimbo presence made people a little bit better...  Josh, simply makes those around him so much better than I think they would be elsewhere...   So I agree Josh is a generational talent.. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

I have watched pretty much every game since 1988 so I think I have a good grasp on that period and I would rank those I have seen:

1) Bruce Smith

2} Thurman Thomas

3) Josh Allen( yes already)

4/5) Moulds and Reed

6) Kelly 

 

After them no one is a sure thing to me, and I don't like discussing people I never watched because I am working off legend not fact. 

[Ballsy]

3 hours ago, JP51 said:

Sorry got to jump in here...  I am failing to see the Superbowl thing, so under this theory….

 

Now If it was just simply situational I am not sure that this makes Kelly better than Josh...  if you are arguing Kelly was blessed with more talent on his team in a weaker conference thus made it to more Superbowl's, I wouldn't call this better I would call this fortunate...If you are saying it was some performance or leadership intangible that Kelly had that propelled himself and his team to Super Bowls (remember Frank Riech propelled us as well) ... You are essentially saying that if you magically switched QBs... with eras that Kelly would do better with this team than Josh would do with the 90s teams.... if you are saying that, you are effectively saying that Kelly is better at much more than going to Super Bowls than Josh... 

Again, not saying Kelley is better than Allen. I was just pointing out that the poster that said “there is not one thing that Kelly is better than Josh at” was wrong. I disagree. Kelly is currently better than Josh at getting to the superbowl.
 

I never said it was because of Kelly the team got there. I never said that crappy quarterbacks who end up in the Super Bowl because they were blessed to be on great teams are great QBs. 
 

I was also not saying Kelly’s leadership, ability, personality, etc was the reason the team got to the Super Bowl. In fact, I never said Kelly was the reason the team made all those superbowls, or that that without Kelly, the wouldn’t have made any of them. 
 

I just pointed out a factual inaccuracy. As of today, factually, Kelly is/was better at getting to Superbowls than Josh. 
 

I’m also not saying it’s Josh’s fault or lack of leadership or ability that has prevented the team from getting to the Superbowl. 
 

Whether Kelly caused his team to make superbowls, or Josh prevented his team from making them is, in fact, unknowable.

[JP51]

17 minutes ago, Ballsy said:

Again, not saying Kelley is better than Allen. I was just pointing out that the poster that said “there is not one thing that Kelly is better than Josh at” was wrong. I disagree. Kelly is currently better than Josh at getting to the superbowl.
 

I never said it was because of Kelly the team got there. I never said that crappy quarterbacks who end up in the Super Bowl because they were blessed to be on great teams are great QBs. 
 

I was also not saying Kelly’s leadership, ability, personality, etc was the reason the team got to the Super Bowl. In fact, I never said Kelly was the reason the team made all those superbowls, or that that without Kelly, the wouldn’t have made any of them. 
 

I just pointed out a factual inaccuracy. As of today, factually, Kelly is/was better at getting to Superbowls than Josh. 
 

I’m also not saying it’s Josh’s fault or lack of leadership or ability that has prevented the team from getting to the Superbowl. 
 

Whether Kelly caused his team to make superbowls, or Josh prevented his team from making them is, in fact, unknowable.

So you are basically saying Kelly was more fortunate that Josh...  I wont argue that... maybe thats where the confusion is, I think when you say someone is better at something than some one else, most people view that as they have some causative effect or skill that propels them... so your statement was not with regards to comparing them as QBs rather just random people...  then I suppose add to your list... Kelly is a better beer drinker than Josh too... just sayin... 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

I have watched pretty much every game since 1988 so I think I have a good grasp on that period and I would rank those I have seen:

1) Bruce Smith

2} Thurman Thomas

3) Josh Allen( yes already)

4/5) Moulds and Reed

6) Kelly 

 

After them no one is a sure thing to me, and I don't like discussing people I never watched because I am working off legend not fact. 

So to be clear, your ranking is limited to the second half of the franchise’s history. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

So to be clear, your ranking is limited to the second half of the franchise’s history. 

Yes, I know OJ would be on the list along with some others but I have never seen them so my opinion on them is kinda worthless. 

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Yes, I know OJ would be on the list along with some others but I have never seen them so my opinion on them is kinda worthless. 

No worries. What would be more interesting than the Top 15 players is everyone’s list of the best starting lineup at each position. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

No worries. What would be more interesting than the Top 15 players is everyone’s list of the best starting lineup at each position. 

That I could get behind also, but ranking our OL would difficult because we have so many good ones. 

[Ballsy]

6 hours ago, JP51 said:

So you are basically saying Kelly was more fortunate that Josh...  I wont argue that... maybe thats where the confusion is, I think when you say someone is better at something than some one else, most people view that as they have some causative effect or skill that propels them... so your statement was not with regards to comparing them as QBs rather just random people...  then I suppose add to your list... Kelly is a better beer drinker than Josh too... just sayin... 

I was keeping it to football, but, yes, I agree that Kelly is better at a lot of things than Josh - surviving cancer, judging wet t-shirt contests in Daytona, etc.  The OP to which I replied made a statement which I believed was factually inaccurate:  something along of lines, "there is not one thing that Kelly is better at than Josh in football."   I found one think Kelly did better in football - getting to the Superbowl.  

I was not saying Kelly was more fortunate, or that Kelly was solely responsible for getting the Bills to the Superbowl. I'm just saying he was better than Josh at getting to Superbowls. That is indisputable.  I made no assertions as to the reason why he got to Superbowls.  Look, to be the QB of ANY team that makes the Superbowl, luck or fortune is a component.  Luck has played a part for Mahomes, Brady, etc.  So far, luck hasn't been kind to Josh in terms of advancing to the Superbowl.  Coaching, defense, injuries, refs, quarterback ability as well as a myriad of other factors all play a role in advancing a team to the Superbowl.  It's not just the Quarterback.  

We've had 59 Superbowls and I'll bet less than 70 total quarterbacks have started in the game (as many have started in multiple SBs).  Josh isn't one of them.  Does this mean Josh is a worse QB than Trent Dilfer or Tony Eason?  No.  But, like it or not, Josh will be judged on his lack of Superbowl appearances and Superbowl wins.  Charles Barkely, Allen Iverson, Barry Bonds never won rings, but they all at least made it to the finals.  Josh has yet to do that.