A potentially stupid theory on why the Bills seem less interested in downfield speed at WR

[julian]

This is an argument Beane’s wife makes to her friends on her 4th glass of wine during the monthly book club meeting.

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Wonderful. That's not the kind of deep ball I'm talking about. And I'm pretty sure you know that already. And what the NFL declares is a "deep ball" (20 yards lol) isn't the topic 

 

I'm talking "Go". I'm talking straight up the field past the safeties. We don't have to do this dance with all the mental gymnastics and pretend Josh is great at everything. And I don't need charts and graphs and analytics to tell me what my eyes tell me. He does NOT throw a good "Go" route. He had one season and maybe a half of the one that followed where he looked like it was coming around. That's about it.

Josh Allen doesn't throw a bad go route ... Not the best but I wouldn't say bad

 

He also throws further down the field on go routes then other QBs

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 01:30 AM by Buffalo716

[SoonerBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, julian said:

This is an argument Beane’s wife makes to her friends on her 4th glass of wine during the monthly book club meeting.

What we need is something Palmer brings to the table,and that is separation.   Some speed with that is great, but if we can get wr's who create space on a post then it can turn a 20+ yards pass into a 50.

 

As for the deep ball, again a yard of separation would do wonders.

[Thurman#1]

I don't think so. He's been in and out and it does seem to connect with how much he concentrates on it in the offseason.

 

After I believe year 3 he mentioned dropping it into the bucket on the long ball as an offseason goal, and he absolutely did get a lot better.

 

He's been up and down with this and he made some big longer throws last year, not including the giant throws mentioned above.

 

I think it's as simple as the fact that fans are way more focused on this than the Bills are, and that's why the board grouses about needing major speed while Beane and the office don't think it's a major need.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, buffblue said:

Great post. You hit the nail on the head with the bolded part. It's more about having that threat available to you within the offense. Allen had a number of outstanding deep throws to well covered receivers last year despite his reputation on here of being a mediocre downfield passer. A recent example would be the long TD throw to Hollins right before halftime of the AFC championship. That pass was utterly perfect by Josh and had to be because there was no separation whatsoever. It is also kind of hilarious that a guy as great as Trent McDuffie would ever end up covering someone of Hollins' skill, but that is what Buffalo chooses to put on the field.

 

It would just be nice if we didn't force our all time great QB to have to play off schedule and thread needles in order for the offense to be productive against good teams. I don't think we are going to be quite as successful on offense this year as it stands either, for a variety of reasons. The turnovers are an obvious candidate for regression, but what about the health of the offensive line? The Bills were extremely fortunate to have such continuity among the starting five last year. If we run into problems on the line and have some protection issues, its going to magnify even further the inability of our receivers to separate quickly against decent defenses, just like in the Baltimore and Houston games.

 

It would be roster malpractice to carry this receiver room into the regular season. For those who say give it time and that there are still 4 months to go, I would remind you that Beane was more than happy to proceed with a similar group last year. At best I can see a reunion with Cooper which really doesn't move the needle. Every other top QB has a guy who can take the top off a defense other than Allen, and the neglect is getting old.

 

 

Roster malpractice? Puh-leeze!

 

One of the elite offenses last year and they've added to the receiver room with Joshua Palmer strengthening a very young, developing group. 

 

Just because you want something doesn't mean it's malpractice for them not to get it. The passing offense was good last year and again, they've added Palmer, and Coleman and Kincaid healthier and savvier, they should be fine.

 

Roster malpractice is a wild exaggeration.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, buffblue said:

Did you even read anything I wrote? What a lazy response.

 

Yes, everything that happened last year is going to carry over exactly the same this year. No changes are needed because everything stays the same in the NFL year over year. They should probably just give us the Lombardi now.

 

 

So your argument is that things will be different this year, and that all of the differences will obviously be negative and that things therefore will obviously get worse? That's just as lazy.

 

Maybe the differences will be that Coleman and Kincaid, healthy, will take major steps upward, and that Palmer will bring in significantly more yards and scores than Hollins, our most productive non-Coleman, non-Shakir receiver.

 

The offense has been terrific for years now. 

 

 

[Old Coot]

I'll add another possible reason for downplaying the deep ball and that's the defenses teams run now. Most run some version of the Cover 2 shell which is designed to take away long completions.

 

Now that doesn't mean you don't need some speed burners at WR.  As many have pointed out in this thread the ability to threaten deep routes with speed opens up the underneath routes.

[Sierra Foothills]

I agree that Josh is not a great deep ball thrower.

 

I agree that the Bills should have a deep threat to force their opponents to honor that throw.

 

I agree that the Bills don't currrently have a legitimate deep threat on the roster.

 

It may be the most glaring roster weakness they have.

 

[BillsShredder83]

17 hours ago, Simon said:

 

If you can't complete it, I don't think coordinators consider it a threat.

It's dumb if this is it. We have a Madden create your own player cheat code and don't think he can figure it out, again. Rookie year he had it..... had it with Jon Brown too. Hit a Lil rocky water and don't think it's worthwhile investing in anymore lol insane

[klos63]

We've become a more ball control team with Brady as OC. We run more often,  shorter pass routes for efficiency,  but still have the big play capabilities. 

When you have a burner and throw deep often,  you risk sacks, fumbles off the sack and a higher rate of interceptions. 

Last year was Allen's least sacked, least intercepted season of his career.  I think the team wants that to happen again this season. 

 

[MiracleAtRich1393]

20 hours ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

And when he does throw it well, the receiver drops it in the playoffs…against the Chiefs…at home…

..and I am not bitter…

One of the best throws I've ever seen... all for naught 😭

[GreenMtnBillsFan]

28 minutes ago, klos63 said:

We've become a more ball control team with Brady as OC. We run more often,  shorter pass routes for efficiency,  but still have the big play capabilities. 

When you have a burner and throw deep often,  you risk sacks, fumbles off the sack and a higher rate of interceptions. 

Last year was Allen's least sacked, least intercepted season of his career.  I think the team wants that to happen again this season. 

 

Definitely what I think the team and Brady are striving for in the offense now. Defenses are playing 2 High Shells to take away the big explosive plays and would rather force you to string together long efficient drives. If the matchup is there, then deep shots will be taken, but otherwise, I think the offense is perfectly fine with taking advantage of other opportunities to gain yards and keep the ball moving. I don't think they're concerned as much with blinding speed, as they are with compiling different skillsets to take advantage of different matchups. Tire out the defense with Cook, Davis, and Johnson, move the chains with their possession guys like Shakir, Knox/Kincaid, Coleman/Palmer, and then take a deep shot if you get a matchup you like. I think with a healthier Kincaid, growth from Coleman and now adding a route winner in Palmer who excels in separating, they can be even more efficient than last year which in turn keeps the offense humming.