James Cook absent from OTA's

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Most guys that hold out have a legitimate claim for their ask, he doesn’t have any reasonable claim to be a top 2-3 paid back in the league.  If he wants to hang the team out to dry, while the guy they drafted to replace him takes his reps, that’s his option, just don’t be surprised when it blows up in his face and he hits the market with 600 yards and 6 TDs.   Davis can easily replace him at the goal line, his td total can be halved in a hurry.

 

You're proposing some sort of 'spank his bottom and teach him a lesson' thing, like he's a child. Again, that's not how professional football teams operate. It's a punishment fantasy you're trying to argue as a possibility bc you'd like to see him humbled, that isn't based in reality.

 

The Buffalo Bills are a Billion Dollar results based organization. They need James Cook this year and James Cook needs them. They're paying him over 5 million dollars and he's their best RB. By a lot. They aren't going to hurt their chances to win by not playing one of their best players.

 

Ray Davis isn't James Cook. And he's not James Cook's replacement, as you suggest. He's a 4th Round replacement for Nyheim Hines and Zack Moss before him. If Cook leaves after this season, they will Draft his replacement then. The Bills are a markedly lesser offense with Davis and Johnson than they are with Cook, Davis, and Johnson.

 

Like @GunnerBill said, if he were to hold out at all, you might see a week or two that he doesn't dress. But that would be to get him up to speed, not to punish him. Argue this idea and/or hope for it all you want - it's not reality and it won't happen.

[Doc Brown]

27 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

I will never ever understand that sentiment, from a percentage of posters, to talk about letting the young, dynamic talent on the team walk, see above, over and over again.

Good players are not easily replaceable, dynamic, great players are of course even more so.

 

Same silly mentality of the drought years, but the difference then was the front office had that bizarre, team killing, let's just spin our wheels flippant mentality, as  if they were were playing a  fantasy game rather than the real thing.  All fans should cross their fingers that no one there now who may have that mentality has sway.

 

It made the Bills one of the worst teams of the first 15 years of this century, a laughingstock.

 

And this craziness still going on when it comes to running backs, even after the previous year, when almost all of the playoff teams stood out because of superior running games.  Makes zero sense, and just saying it a zillion times does not make it so, in fact shows the lunacy of it all.

 

 

 

 

Guess the team during the drought years that spent the most first round picks on running backs......

Edited 3 hours ago by Doc Brown

[Mister Defense]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Even if you think he can defy the odds what's the hurry in extending him when you have a year left on his rookie deal and have the option of using the franchise tag next year?  I guess I just don't get why there's such an urgency amongst fans to extend him now?

 

To answer your question, at least my own take on that...

 

Now is the time, as James Cook will likely be too expensive next year, as he will have a monster year --agree?, and continue to be a huge part of the best offense in the league, one that will likely break more records next year. Now. Soon. Not after the season.  Trust the process; the Bills sign players like Cook sooner, not later.  They want to lock them up now, saving a lot of money, and strengthening the base--and the culture.  Cook is likely the best example they have ever had for why getting ahead of the ball is so important.

 

Because James Cook is a superstar in the making, would be considered one now if last season the Bills had run him more and thrown the ball to him more.

 

Shoot, just doing that in the Championship Game may have done that in itself.

 

And because since they changed to a physical running team under Brady they have kicked a*s on offense, getting better all of the time. James Cook is now leading that charge, and physically transformed himself the last two years to become a much more physical back. It worked.

 

Because they were the best offense in Bills' history, scored more points than any team in the league, had 30 rushing and 30 passing touchdowns, the first time a team has ever done that, finally giving the Bills the balance they wanted, the balance that would enable their superstar quarterback to show just how good he is. The Most Valuable Player in the NFL.

 

It  is likely most of us who want Cook signed yesterday, and who won't rest easy until it is done, understand just how vital the running game has been to this team, with James Cook leading the charge.

 

I think those are pretty good reasons, Doc, for those wanting this done now. They are part of mine.

 

 

(Would like to see how many of those indicating it will be fine to part ways with Cook soon, were agitated when McDermot started using the phrase complimentary football  often, saying that the success of the running game would determine the passing game success and visa versa.  Their basic argument seemed to be 'we have a great quarterback, let's just throw the ball more  and focus on the passing game.  But It is not how good NFL football works, and I'm not speaking of some by gone era, but now, today, next year, and the year after that.)

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Mister Defense

[Mister Defense]

6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Guess the team during the drought years that spent the most first round picks on running backs......

 

The Jaguars?

 

 

And my second guess...Redskins?

 

 

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

The Jaguars?

 

 

And my second guess...Redskins?

 

 

The Bills.  Why do you think out of all the positions (besides K, P, and special team aces) that running backs are paid the least?

Edited 2 hours ago by Doc Brown

[Mister Defense]

5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The Bills.  Why do you think out of all the positions besides kicker and punter that running backs are paid the least?

 

Well, I am struggling with this quiz, I am afraid..

 

But this question seems easy!

 

 1st and only guess:  Because punters, kickers, and running backs are usually the shortest players on NFL teams. 

 

I think that one is a  'duh'.

 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Mister Defense

[Doc Brown]

Just now, Mister Defense said:

 

Well, I I am struggling with this quiz, I am afraid..

 

But this question seems easy!

 

 1st and only guess:  Because punters, kickers, and running backs are usually the shortest players on NFL teams. 

 

I think that one is a  'duh'.

 

 

It has nothing to do with height.

[Mister Defense]

10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It has nothing to do with height.

 

Wait...

 

You're not implying that because they are  short guys they......?

 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Mister Defense

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Wait...

 

You're not implying that because they are  short guys they are also inadequate physically in another area, are you?

 

 

 

This is a family message board.

[Mister Defense]

7 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

This is a family message board.

 

 

Well, I think I definitely failed the quiz.  Some tricky questions on there.

 

But i did better on your first question, I think, hope, near the top of this page.  But it's too long.

 

Hoping for at least a C on that, and will put it on the fridge.

 

 

[RoscoeParrish]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You're right, but an by its very definition an extension just creates a new contract including what's left with the old one, correct? So DK Metcalf now has 5 years remaining on his contract. The extension is literally just taking what's left of the old contract and extending it.

 

Your DK example in your last sentence would have been accurate if you adjusted the numbers for this year.

 

Or is it the signing part some of you are up in arms about?

 

James Cook might sign a $15mAAV extension for 3 years at $45m, but his actual contract would be 4 years at $50m for $12.5m AAV.

 

The 1st number is more optics. The 2nd number is probably what really matters 

you are not gaining 2025 with the extension! He’s under contract.

 

You are talking about “what really matters” but you were previously talking about how these extensions affect the cap. I just demonstrated that it doesn’t matter how you spin it, you are getting these players at their 2025 value regardless and then their cap implications is exactly what it says on the tin.

 

Saying James Cook is signed for 4 for 12.5M AAV is total optics. 
 

The reality is that not extending Cook means he has a cap hit of $5M in 2025.

 

Extending Cook at 3 for $45M means that he still has a cap hit of $5M in 2025 and then $45M spread out over the next 3 years (unless void years are used).

 

Including his existing 2025 cap number to make his contract seem less than what it truly is, is probably the best example of “optics” possible.

 

We have seen this the other way too. Jeudy had a massive guarantee number on his reported extension with Cleveland because they included his fifth year option guarantee of $13M that was present regardless. It made his agent look good. It was irrelevant to the reality. 

5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I trust Beane over any of us and our message board logic. Even my own.

 

And there are plenty of fast guys over 27 in the league.

 

Is anyone worried that Lamar will not be able to run well this year? He's 28 going on 29. 

Has Tyreek Hill not been a threat the last few years? Even with all his dings and injuries.

Derrick Henry is 31, takes a lot of contact, and can still take it to the house and outrun the defense.

Speed doesnt always disappear. And a lot of athletes will tell you 27 is just entering their physical prime.

Tyreek Hill is about to fall off a cliff after a disappointing season imo.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, RoscoeParrish said:

Tyreek Hill is about to fall off a cliff after a disappointing season imo.

 

Yes, I agree. At 31 yrs old.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, RoscoeParrish said:

you are not gaining 2025 with the extension! He’s under contract.

 

You are talking about “what really matters” but you were previously talking about how these extensions affect the cap. I just demonstrated that it doesn’t matter how you spin it, you are getting these players at their 2025 value regardless and then their cap implications is exactly what it says on the tin.

 

Saying James Cook is signed for 4 for 12.5M AAV is total optics. 
 

The reality is that not extending Cook means he has a cap hit of $5M in 2025.

 

Extending Cook at 3 for $45M means that he still has a cap hit of $5M in 2025 and then $45M spread out over the next 3 years (unless void years are used).

 

Including his existing 2025 cap number to make his contract seem less than what it truly is, is probably the best example of “optics” possible.

 

We have seen this the other way too. Jeudy had a massive guarantee number on his reported extension with Cleveland because they included his fifth year option guarantee of $13M that was present regardless. It made his agent look good. It was irrelevant to the reality. 

 

 

But that is the way people look at it, and the way to calculate the contract/player value.

 

Right now, Cook is on a 1yr/$5M contract. If we extend him, that means we keep that 1/$5M and add to it. And it changes the length and average value. And lets be clear, average value is what everyone is caught up on. And average value is the unreal optics.

 

I've seen it said Henry signed for "$8M/yr" because his contract was 2/$16M. But he's never made $8M. He made $4M last year, and this year he's set to make over $12M.

 

So you're really helping us prove that "average value" is meaningless, and folks shouldnt get caught up on "$15M/yr" because there wont be a year he ever earns $15M. It will be some smaller figures up front, some larger number at the end, and probably a void year to mitigate it.

 

If we're all being real, and knowing all the cap magic and tricks GMs have at their disposal, NO ONE should be getting so caught up on Cook's $15M/yr request.

[DCofNC]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

But that is the way people look at it, and the way to calculate the contract/player value.

 

Right now, Cook is on a 1yr/$5M contract. If we extend him, that means we keep that 1/$5M and add to it. And it changes the length and average value. And lets be clear, average value is what everyone is caught up on. And average value is the unreal optics.

 

I've seen it said Henry signed for "$8M/yr" because his contract was 2/$16M. But he's never made $8M. He made $4M last year, and this year he's set to make over $12M.

 

So you're really helping us prove that "average value" is meaningless, and folks shouldnt get caught up on "$15M/yr" because there wont be a year he ever earns $15M. It will be some smaller figures up front, some larger number at the end, and probably a void year to mitigate it.

 

If we're all being real, and knowing all the cap magic and tricks GMs have at their disposal, NO ONE should be getting so caught up on Cook's $15M/yr request.

you pointed out why people are hung up by on it, guys who are markedly better are earning half that in average and 20% less in the big year of their deal.  Cook is so over rated by a number of you on this board it’s actually comical. You laugh at the Dolphins for signing Tua, not realizing you want the Bills to do the equivalent at a less valuable position.

Edited 1 hour ago by DCofNC

[Doc Brown]

28 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If we're all being real, and knowing all the cap magic and tricks GMs have at their disposal, NO ONE should be getting so caught up on Cook's $15M/yr request.

I think most fans have learned that guaranteed money is the thing that matters most in a contract after the Watson fiasco.  How do we know Cook doesn't want a 4 year $69.2m extension so his average is $15m over the next five years?  I kid but the point is do you think he's worth $13.2m a year over the next five?  I don't.  Replenish through the draft next year and spend that money at more premium positions.

Edited 1 hour ago by Doc Brown

[DrDawkinstein]

12 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I think most fans have learned that guaranteed money is the thing that matters most in a contract after the Watson fiasco.  How do we know Cook doesn't want a 4 year $69.2m extension so his average is $15m over the next five years?  I kid but the point is do you think he's worth $13.2m a year over the next five?  I don't.  Replenish through the draft next year and spend that money at more premium positions.

 

Glad you brought up guaranteed money. It really is the only/most important thing. So 4/$60M with $40M guaranteed means we could easily get out of it after 2 or 3 years without much of a hit. Very little dead cap risk. So what's everyone worried about?

 

And yes, if he continues to play like last season, he is worth $13-15M/yr.

[BillsFanForever19]

30 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Cook is so over rated by a number of you on this board it’s actually comical.

 

How so? You don't see anyone saying he's Saquon Barkley and should be paid 20.1m a year. But the idea that he should be paid half of that and the same as 30 year old Aaron Jones in 2026 is laughable. As is the idea that he's just any other RB and that he should be sat for Ray Davis and we wouldn't miss a beat on Offense.

 

If anyone's doing anything beyond the dial, it's you underrating.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, RoscoeParrish said:

you are not gaining 2025 with the extension! He’s under contract.

 

You are talking about “what really matters” but you were previously talking about how these extensions affect the cap. I just demonstrated that it doesn’t matter how you spin it, you are getting these players at their 2025 value regardless and then their cap implications is exactly what it says on the tin.

 

Huh? What are you even arguing dude?

 

The Bills can sign him to an extension and actually lower his 2025 CAP. In fact, that would inevitably be the result and one of the primary motivating factors.

 

If you don't understand that, please Google some combination of "NFL Contracts" and "CAP" and "signing bonus prorated."

 

1 hour ago, RoscoeParrish said:

 

Saying James Cook is signed for 4 for 12.5M AAV is total optics. 
 

The reality is that not extending Cook means he has a cap hit of $5M in 2025.

 

Extending Cook at 3 for $45M means that he still has a cap hit of $5M in 2025 and then $45M spread out over the next 3 years (unless void years are used).

 

Including his existing 2025 cap number to make his contract seem less than what it truly is, is probably the best example of “optics” possible.

 

We have seen this the other way too. Jeudy had a massive guarantee number on his reported extension with Cleveland because they included his fifth year option guarantee of $13M that was present regardless. It made his agent look good. It was irrelevant to the reality. 

 

Annnnnnnd it's clear you understand the CAP even less than I do. I'm no expert, but so much of what you say demonstrates you haven't even tried to understand the CAP.

 

Cook's $5m CAP hit in 2025 would be lowered with an extension because that $5m would go away with the signing bonus and then his 2025 CAP hit would change to base salary (almost certainly vet minimum) plus signing bonus divided by 5.

 

If you don't understand that, look it up.