I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better

[wppete]

 

[Kirby Jackson]

This thread is the era’s version of trading Mario Williams for John Skelton. 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

I'm still arguing that Brady makes it much harder on this offense than it needs to be with his overuse of Mesh in high leverage situations and inability to scheme up proper passing concepts that lead to space for players.

 

These WRs might not be great in terms of overall ability, but they are certainly better than what Brady has made them look.

 

let’s do the exercise. 
 

facing a heavy dose of man coverage and getting little help from the line or WRs…. What’s your plan?

 

the WRs can’t win matchups 

 

mesh variations off the table

 

cue up some slow developing double moves?

 

the back shoulders have been a real winner for us 

 

I’ll buy a little more motion maybe, some extra stacked formations and that not having such a heavy skew to pass out of shotgun… but at some point it’s a matter of not having talent to beat man coverage. Our WR group ranks 30-something talent wise. 
 

I’ll also say, several of the plays that didn’t work that were mesh in major moments had the target free 

 

what are your play calls 

Edited 17 minutes ago by NoSaint

[Real McClappy]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

 

This video is soooooo spot on it hurts man.  I'm not even sure I can blame Brady at this phase either.  

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

let’s do the exercise. 
 

facing a heavy dose of man coverage and getting little help from the line or WRs…. What’s your plan?

 

the WRs can’t win matchups 

 

mesh variations off the table

 

cue up some slow developing double moves?

 

the back shoulders have been a real winner for us 

 

I’ll buy a little more motion maybe, some extra stacked formations and that not having such a heavy skew to pass out of shotgun… but at some point it’s a matter of not having talent to beat man coverage. Our WR group ranks 30-something talent wise. 
 

I’ll also say, several of the plays that didn’t work that were mesh in major moments had the target free 

 

what are your play calls 

 

Khalil Shakir for multiple years had the highest separation rate against man coverage in the NFL. Now all of a sudden he can't win against man?

 

Not buying it. We have Gregg Roman 2.0

 

Great run concepts, bad pass concepts

Edited 13 minutes ago by Big Turk

[Real McClappy]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Khalil Shakir for multiple years had the highest separation rate against man coverage in the NFL. Now all of a sudden he can't win against man?

 

Not buying it.

So it is route design or the WRs? That is were I'm lost. 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Real McClappy said:

So it is route design or the WRs? That is were I'm lost. 

 

Pass concepts are both not well designed for the most part and the ones that are like Mesh are highly overused and predictable in obvious situations.

 

Brady tendencies combined with inability to properly scheme good concepts overall in the pass game are a major problem

 

Essentially like the last 6 years, in year 2 the OC gets figured out, he has no real answers against really good defensive teams and the offense looks disjointed far too often as a result.

Edited 11 minutes ago by Big Turk

[Real McClappy]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Pass concepts are both not well designed for the most part and the ones that are like Mesh are highly overused and predictable in obvious situations.

 

Brady tendencies combined with inability to properly scheme good concepts overall in the pass game are a major problem

 

Essentially like the last 6 years, in year 2 the OC gets figured out, he has no real answers against really good defensive teams and the offense looks disjointed far too often as a result.

I can agree with what you are saying as well as that all makes sense here.  This flat out sucks as I don't want to see Allen getting destroyed like that again honestly.  Thursday game alone Pegula should be saying the same thing. It was embarrassing and will lead to a major Allen injury. 

[Andy1]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Pass concepts are both not well designed for the most part and the ones that are like Mesh are highly overused and predictable in obvious situations.

 

Brady tendencies combined with inability to properly scheme good concepts overall in the pass game are a major problem

 

Essentially like the last 6 years, in year 2 the OC gets figured out, he has no real answers against really good teams and the offense looks disjointed far too often as a result.

Agree. Under Dorsey and Brady, both offenses became stagnant when defenses figured them out. You need a second act that works off your established concepts. Talent is also an issue. When talent is lacking, scheme and execution becomes more important. 

[NoSaint]

9 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Khalil Shakir for multiple years had the highest separation rate against man coverage in the NFL. Now all of a sudden he can't win against man?

 

Not buying it. We have Gregg Roman 2.0

 

Great run concepts, bad pass concepts

you aren’t going to love the answers here: 

 

1) Shakir is statistically on pace to be about the same year over year statistically and about to basically put up his best season with us. The problem is he’s not a top wr and can’t be your WR1

 

2) still interested to hear the route concepts missing 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

Agree. Under Dorsey and Brady, both offenses became stagnant when defenses figured them out. You need a second act that works off your established concepts. Talent is also an issue. When talent is lacking, scheme and execution becomes more important. 

 

Even under Daboll...the worst offensive game of the Allen era was the 9-6 debacle against an atrocious Jags team.

 

The defense was helping win a lot of those games during the most part of the year in Daboll's last season.  Couldn't run the ball effectively, Allen pressing too much ,etc...

Edited 1 minute ago by Big Turk