The coaching mismatch

[FireChans]

Let’s play a quiz game. 
 

Which coach is being referred to with these quotes?

 

“Whenever I think of ****, I think of Bill Cowher. People were so critical of Cowher not being able to win the big one, yet he was the head coach for 14 years in PIT and did a damn fine job with only a single SB appearance prior to his last season. Before 2005, his last season, he had only four losing seasons, five AFC Championship appearances, and the one Super Bowl appearance, losing to Dallas in 1995. Yet his reputation was a good coach who couldn't win when it counted.”

 

“*** i think is a very good coach Monday thru Saturday, but awful coach on Sunday...and for the last couple of years has had some incredible puck luck during the season.”

 

“Hes another Chuck Knox, Marty Schottenheimer type. Beats bad teams all the time, loses the 5 or 6 toughies ends up 10-6 11-5 if the schedule smiled on him and exits when the playoffs start.

 

If your not making the playoff he will get you there almost guaranteed then the frustration is your really not going anywhere and guess what they are not making the super bowl this year either”

 

”Have you watched him coach… in the playoffs?

 

It's very entertaining. He's saves his best game day mismanagement for those games.”

 

“He's a modern day Marty Schottenheimer, IMO. Solid but not spectacular. Very good regular season coach who usually fields a good, competitive squad but can't get over the hump in the playoffs.”

 

If you guessed, “Andy Reid before he got the greatest QB in football,” you’re right! 
 

Johnny, tell them what they’ve won!

Edited February 22 by FireChans

[beebe]

Andy Reid was Sean McDermott before Mahomes. 

 

Tony Dungy was Sean McDermott before Peyton Manning.

 

Bill Cowher was Sean McDermott before Big Ben.

 

Sean McDermott is still Sean McDermott with Josh Allen. 

[Success]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Let’s play a quiz game. 
 

Which coach is being referred to with these quotes?

 

“Whenever I think of ****, I think of Bill Cowher. People were so critical of Cowher not being able to win the big one, yet he was the head coach for 14 years in PIT and did a damn fine job with only a single SB appearance prior to his last season. Before 2005, his last season, he had only four losing seasons, five AFC Championship appearances, and the one Super Bowl appearance, losing to Dallas in 1995. Yet his reputation was a good coach who couldn't win when it counted.”

 

“*** i think is a very good coach Monday thru Saturday, but awful coach on Sunday...and for the last couple of years has had some incredible puck luck during the season.”

 

“Hes another Chuck Knox, Marty Schottenheimer type. Beats bad teams all the time, loses the 5 or 6 toughies ends up 10-6 11-5 if the schedule smiled on him and exits when the playoffs start.

 

If your not making the playoff he will get you there almost guaranteed then the frustration is your really not going anywhere and guess what they are not making the super bowl this year either”

 

”Have you watched him coach… in the playoffs?

 

It's very entertaining. He's saves his best game day mismanagement for those games.”

 

“He's a modern day Marty Schottenheimer, IMO. Solid but not spectacular. Very good regular season coach who usually fields a good, competitive squad but can't get over the hump in the playoffs.”

 

If you guessed, “Andy Reid before he got the greatest QB in football,” you’re right! 
 

Johnny, tell them what they’ve won!

 

Your assessment of Andy Reid as a mediocre HC who gives KC no advantage over the Bills is noted.

 

Just now, beebe said:

Andy Reid was Sean McDermott before Mahomes. 

 

Tony Dungy was Sean McDermott before Peyton Manning.

 

Bill Cowher was Sean McDermott before Big Ben.

 

Sean McDermott is still Sean McDermott with Josh Allen. 

 

So what's the conclusion? Allen just ain't good enough?  He's holding McDermott back from greatness?

 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

Your assessment of Andy Reid as a mediocre HC who gives KC no advantage over the Bills is noted.

 

 

So what's the conclusion? Allen just ain't good enough?  He's holding McDermott back from greatness?

 

I think he’s a good coach. Honestly a great coach. I also know he wasn’t “good enough” before he got the best QB in football.

 

If the Bills had the best QB in football and couldn’t beat them, I would be yelling fire McD with the rest of ya.

[Success]

Just now, FireChans said:

I think he’s a good coach. Honestly a great coach. I also know he wasn’t “good enough” before he got the best QB in football.

 

If the Bills had the best QB in football and couldn’t beat them, I would be yelling fire McD with the rest of ya.

 

Would you prefer we traded Allen for a ton of picks & start from scratch?

 

[FireChans]

Just now, Success said:

 

Would you prefer we traded Allen for a ton of picks & start from scratch?

 

Nah, I think we keep scratching and clawing and trying to get better (with a pinch of draft luck) and try to beat them or hope we catch some breaks and not have to face them at all. I don’t think we can NEVER win. We just have to get lucky, and a team with a good coach (but not the best) and a great QB (but not the best) is going to need luck to break through. 

 

Mahomes can win 10 for all I care, I just want one. I am past the point of caring if Josh Allen goes down as the greatest QB in the history of QB’s. There’s some weird obsession with trying to wish Josh into being a better QB than Pat but that race is long over.

[Success]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Nah, I think we keep scratching and clawing and trying to get better (with a pinch of draft luck) and try to beat them or hope we catch some breaks and not have to face them at all. I don’t think we can NEVER win. We just have to get lucky, and a team with a good coach (but not the best) and a great QB (but not the best) is going to need luck to break through. 

 

Mahomes can win 10 for all I care, I just want one. I am past the point of caring if Josh Allen goes down as the greatest QB in the history of QB’s. There’s some weird obsession with trying to wish Josh into being a better QB than Pat but that race is long over.

 

Most teams need luck to win a title.  Even the mighty Chiefs.

 

[beebe]

11 minutes ago, Success said:

So what's the conclusion? Allen just ain't good enough?  He's holding McDermott back from greatness?

 

 

Playoff loss #5: 26-for-39 for 186 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INT, 24 points, vs Chiefs in '23 divisional round. Not good enough.

 

Playoff loss #4: 24-of-42 for 264 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 10 points, vs Bengals in '22 divisional round. Not good enough.

 

Playoff loss #3: 27-of-37 for 329 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INT, 36 points, vs Chiefs in '21 divisional round. Good enough!

 

Playoff loss #2: 28-of-48 for 287 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 24 points (two garbage time scores late) vs Chiefs in '20 AFC title game. Not good enough.

 

Playoff loss #1: 24-of-46 for 264 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 19 points vs Texans in '19 AFC Wild Card. Not good enough.

 

Allen clearly wasn't good enough in playoff losses #1, #2, #4. He was arguably good enough in playoff loss #5, but couldn't lead his team to any points in the final three possessions, in the same situation where Mahomes routinely comes up clutch (including in all three Super Bowl wins.) 

 

Allen was great in playoff loss #3. 

 

On the whole, Allen has been good — but not good enough. 

 

McDermott has clearly not been good enough — but has also had the hardest degree of difficulty assignment in football three of his last four playoff losses (stopping Mahomes.) 

Edited February 22 by beebe

[Success]

2 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

Playoff loss #5: 26-for-39 for 186 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INT, 24 points, vs Chiefs in '23 divisional round. Not good enough.

 

Playoff loss #4: 24-of-42 for 264 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 10 points, vs Bengals in '22 divisional round. Not good enough.

 

Playoff loss #3: 27-of-37 for 329 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INT, 36 points, vs Chiefs in '21 divisional round. Good enough!

 

Playoff loss #2: 28-of-48 for 287 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 24 points (two garbage time scores late) vs Chiefs in '20 AFC title game. Not good enough.

 

Playoff loss #1: 24-of-46 for 264 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 19 points vs Texans in '19 AFC Wild Card. Not good enough.

 

Allen clearly wasn't good enough in playoff losses #1, #3, #4. He was arguably good enough in playoff loss #5, but couldn't lead his team to any points in the final three possessions, in the same situation where Mahomes routinely comes up clutch (including in all three Super Bowl wins.) 

 

Allen was great in playoff loss #3. 

 

On the whole, Allen has been good — but not good enough. 

 

McDermott has clearly not been good enough — but has also had the hardest degree of difficulty assignment in football three of his last four playoff losses (stopping Mahomes.) 

 

You said McDermott is basically Cowher before he got Big Ben.

 

Were you saying that Allen isn't close to Big Ben, and that for McDermott to take that leap, he needs a better QB?

 

EDIT:  and quite a few people think Allen played as well as or better than Mahomes in this past game.  He had some big drops by receivers.  And you left out his rushing stats.

 

Allen wasn't the reason we lost to KC this year.

 

Edited February 22 by Success

[FireChans]

Just now, Success said:

 

Most teams need luck to win a title.  Even the mighty Chiefs.

 

That’s true. There is a fair amount of luck involved. It’s hard to win championships.
 

There’s also an aspect of when you’re the best, you sometimes just need to not beat yourselves. You can create your own luck. 
 

Folks that believe the NE dynasty and the Chiefs dynasty is “just” luck, are completely wrong imo. But luck certainly helps. Which is why the Chiefs lost their 1 SB and Brady/BB lost 3.

[beebe]

3 minutes ago, Success said:

 

You said McDermott is basically Cowher before he got Big Ben.

 

Were you saying that Allen isn't close to Big Ben, and that for McDermott to take that leap, he needs a better QB?

 

 

He needs his QB to perform more consistently in the biggest moments. 1st-and-10 at the KC 27-yard line, 2:40 left, down by 3. Ball is in Allen's hands. He couldn't lead his team into the end zone. Purdy had chances to close out the game vs the Chiefs and couldn't do it either. Is what it is. 

 

I definitely prefer Big Ben to Allen in the clutch for what it's worth. 

Edited February 22 by beebe

[90sBills]

41 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It makes tremendous sense when you think about it.

 

This fan base believes, by and large, believes that Josh Allen is at least Patrick Mahomes’ equal, maybe even better. 
 

Working off that assumption, they had to find other reasons why we haven’t had the same success as the Chiefs. First it was the weapons. “Give Josh Hill and Kelce!” “Sammy Watkins is their WR4!”

 

Then Kelce got old and Hill got shipped out and that narrative had to die because they won two more.

 

Now the only thing they have left is Reid. A guy who was a notorious choke artist for the first 20 or so years coaching. Never won the big one with talent at QB. Was clowned for a decade about sucking at clock management. Was a perennial first round exit in KC with a very talented roster. 
 

But of course, now he’s an elite coach. The upper echelon crust. And it can’t be because he has the current greatest QB in football. So really, the difference has to be Reid vastly outperforming McD. 
 

They ignore things they see with their own eyes (Harbaugh and Tomlin unable to win playoff games without elite QB play, BB’s Pats being a shell of themselves post Tom Brady, Arians winning an SB with the GOAT after failing to amount to much with Carson Palmer in Arizona.) It MUST be coaching. 

100% this! It’s not like McD is an all world coach but he is a good coach. The reason the Bills have not been more successful is not solely on him. The roster needs to get younger. That would help with injuries issues. Also a part of the equation that 90% of people on here won’t acknowledge is Allen needs to be better.
 

We see Mahomes run to pick up a first in the most pressured situations time and time.  Or toss a short conversion when the game is on the line to win the game. Now correlate that to all the times we see Allen do similar things and in most people’s minds it’s ’Allen can do all that. Probably better. So why can’t we win a superbowl? Must be the coach’

 

The problem is when pressure is at its most Allen still needs improvement doing the mundane. It’s the mental aspect of the game that most refuse to see his shortcomings. On that last drive against KC he fumbled trying to fight for extra yards instead of going down. Just because a 4th round rookie db tried to scoop it instead of jumping on it people just forget it happened. Then of course later in the drive making the wrong choice to throw to the endzone. Even with that throw he could’ve slid a little to the right or up in the pocket and gotten a clean throw. These are the things that makes Allen a step behind Mahomes. The little things that wouldn’t matter who the coach is. I hope Allen would spend the offseason evaluating and improving this part of his game.

 

 

 

[Success]

Just now, beebe said:

 

He needs his QB to perform more consistently in the biggest moments. 1st-and-10 at the KC 27-yard line, 2:40 left, down by 3. Ball is in Allen's hands. He couldn't lead his team into the end zone. Purdy had chances to close out the game vs the Chiefs and couldn't do it either. Is what it is. 

 

Of course, of course. 

 

Because, as we know - Josh Allen has to play perfect games for the team to have a chance.

 

[beebe]

Just now, Success said:

 

Of course, of course. 

 

Because, as we know - Josh Allen has to play perfect games for the team to have a chance.

 

 

He wasn't anywhere close to perfect in the AFC title game loss to KC or the '22 Divisional loss to the Bengals. 

[Success]

2 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

100% this! It’s not like McD is an all world coach but he is a good coach. The reason the Bills have not been more successful is not solely on him. The roster needs to get younger. That would help with injuries issues. Also a part of the equation that 90% of people on here won’t acknowledge is Allen needs to be better.
 

We see Mahomes run to pick up a first in the most pressured situations time and time.  Or toss a short conversion when the game is on the line to win the game. Now correlate that to all the times we see Allen do similar things and in most people’s minds it’s ’Allen can do all that. Probably better. So why can’t we win a superbowl? Must be the coach’

 

The problem is when pressure is at its most Allen still needs improvement doing the mundane. It’s the mental aspect of the game that most refuse to see his shortcomings. On that last drive against KC he fumbled trying to fight for extra yards instead of going down. Just because a 4th round rookie db tried to scoop it instead of jumping on it people just forget it happened. Then of course later in the drive making the wrong choice to throw to the endzone. Even with that throw he could’ve slid a little to the right or up in the pocket and gotten a clean throw. These are the things that makes Allen a step behind Mahomes. The little things that wouldn’t matter who the coach is. I hope Allen would spend the offseason evaluating and improving this part of his game.

 

 

 

 

The bolded is incorrect.  He made the right choice.

 

When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity.

 

Just now, beebe said:

 

He wasn't anywhere close to perfect in the AFC title game loss to KC or the '22 Divisional loss to the Bengals. 

 

He wasn't good in the AFC title game.  Not that it matters that the top 4 receivers had injuries, w/ one playing on a broken leg.

 

He was bad in the Cincy game. That is not disputable.

 

He was the best player on the field for the Bills in this past divisional - and it wasn't close.  I can't really name another player who made an impact play, except maybe Shakir.  His other receivers dropped big passes. And who on defense made a real impact play, especially in the 2nd half?

 

I can name quite a few other players on the Chiefs who made impact plays that game.

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Of course, of course. 

 

Because, as we know - Josh Allen has to play perfect games for the team to have a chance.

 

We would all agree that Brock Purdy has a chance to win the Super Bowl but didn’t play well enough to get it done? Missed a couple plays that would’ve changed the game?
 

Why can we not use that same criteria for Allen? 
 

It all comes down to that fundamental flawed assumption. “He’s just as good, if not the better QB than Pat.” So Allen can’t be criticized in that same way, I guess.

 

I will continue to live in the world where Patrick Mahomes almost ALWAYS delivers and that’s what makes him the best. Namely, reality. Ya’ll can continue to believe that Allen also does (despite what our eyes tell us).

 

I wonder what Saints message boards were like when Brees and Brady were at their peak. “Brees is just as good if not better than Brady, there’s just a coaching discrepancy! The team isn’t good enough, they have Gronk and we only have Jimmy Graham!” 
 

Now of course, we can all admit that Brady was just a better QB. I’m sure even Saints fans admit it now. It’s hard being second best.

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

The bolded is incorrect.  He made the right choice.

 

When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity.

 

The whole last drive he went into "hero mode."  Fumbled the ball that we were fortunate to recover.  Threw an ill conceived pass off the hands of a defender, and went for the kill shots instead of checking down to move the chains and milk the clock.  It is what it is.  That's what we get with Josh- a lot of brilliance, but he occasionally gets tight and spazzes out in the big moments.

[90sBills]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

The bolded is incorrect.  He made the right choice.

 

When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity.

 

Ok let’s go with that. He could’ve given himself a better throw to connect. The only pressure was from Chris Jones. Let’s say he stepped up and connected. TD with almost 2 minutes left and 2 TO for KC. Do you think we’re winning that game seeing KC’s run through the playoffs? That’s what I’m saying about making decisions that give your team the best chance of winning. Take the short. Pick up the first. KC would be forced to use their timeouts. Then use your heroics for the TD with little time left. You’re guaranteed a tie at worst. That’s the game awareness that great QBs need to be concerned with. 

[beebe]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

The bolded is incorrect.  He made the right choice.

 

When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity.

 

 

Analytically speaking, I agree. Touchdowns are never guaranteed. Turnovers happen, inexplicable holding calls happen. You take touchdowns when you can get them. 

 

That being said, if you were to ask 100 Chiefs fans: "Would you rather the Bills complete a first down to Diggs for 10 yards or get an immediate touchdown to Shakir," every single one of them is taking the immediate touchdown. A first-down completion likely meant overtime at absolute best for KC. If the Bills completed the TD pass to Shakir, Mahomes gets 1:55 to drive down the field against a defense he was torching for much of the game. 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Success said:

 

The bolded is incorrect.  He made the right choice.

 

When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity.

 

 

He wasn't good in the AFC title game.  Not that it matters that the top 4 receivers had injuries, w/ one playing on a broken leg.

 

He was bad in the Cincy game. That is not disputable.

 

He was the best player on the field for the Bills in this past divisional - and it wasn't close.  I can't really name another player who made an impact play, except maybe Shakir.  His other receivers dropped big passes. And who on defense made a real impact play, especially in the 2nd half?

 

I can name quite a few other players on the Chiefs who made impact plays that game.

 

Poyer forced a fumble out of the end zone that saved the game from being a blowout and cost the Chiefs 7 points.

[Success]

Just now, SWATeam said:

The whole last drive he went into "hero mode."  Fumbled the ball that we were fortunate to recover.  Threw an ill conceived pass off the hands of a defender, and went for the kill shots instead of checking down to move the chains and milk the clock.  It is what it is.  That's what we get with Josh- a lot of brilliance, but he occasionally gets tight and spazzes out in the big moments.

 

Maybe the fumble play.  But it's incorrect to label the pass to Shakir "hero ball."

 

It was the play design, and Shakir was open.  You have to take that.

 

I kind of laugh when people argue that he should have checked down and gone for a TD more methodically to wind down the clock.  As though you can script that against a great D.  A lot of bad things can happen, and great D's tighten up the closer you get to the endzone.  That might have been the last open guy for a TD Allen could have seen.  From the 10 or 5 yard line, if we made it there, he might have had to force it.

 

You take the open guy when he's open.

 

Just now, FireChans said:

Poyer forced a fumble out of the end zone that saved the game from being a blowout and cost the Chiefs 7 points.

 

Fair.  That's one - and a bit of a wash because that was only there due to the fake punt.

 

Chris Jones made the game-sealing play.  There was nothing like that on the Bills side.

 

[90sBills]

27 minutes ago, Success said:

 

So what's the conclusion? Allen just ain't good enough?  He's holding McDermott back from greatness?

 

The conclusion is both of them need to improve in their respective areas for this team to win a superbowl.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Maybe the fumble play.  But it's incorrect to label the pass to Shakir "hero ball."

 

It was the play design, and Shakir was open.  You have to take that.

 

I kind of laugh when people argue that he should have checked down and gone for a TD more methodically to wind down the clock.  As though you can script that against a great D.  A lot of bad things can happen, and great D's tighten up the closer you get to the endzone.  That might have been the last open guy for a TD Allen could have seen.  From the 10 or 5 yard line, if we made it there, he might have had to force it.

 

You take the open guy when he's open.

 

 

Fair.  That's one - and a bit of a wash because that was only there due to the fake punt.

 

Chris Jones made the game-sealing play.  There was nothing like that on the Bills side.

 

Not really a wash. It was probably, statistically, the most impactful defensive play of the entire game by both teams.

 

Chris Jones causing an errant throw on second down in the redzone is the “game-sealing play?” What is this madness?

Edited February 22 by FireChans

[Gregg]

Just now, 90sBills said:

The conclusion is both of them need to improve in their respective areas for this team to win a superbowl.

 

I would also add Beane into the mix as well. Another weapon or two at WR will also help the Bills achieve their goal.

[Doc]

Everyone would take Reid and Spags over the Bills' OCs and McD.  Everyone. 

Edited February 22 by Doc

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, beebe said:

This was the first year the defense outplayed the offense in Mahomes' six years as starter. 

 

That's the point. The Chiefs made a concerted effort to prioritize the defense the past two offseasons and immediately got an elite defense that elevated its level of play in the playoffs. The Bills have prioritized defense over offense every year that Allen has been here and not once have they gotten elite defensive play that lasted through the playoffs.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

Andy Reid was Sean McDermott before Mahomes. 

 

Did you watch football before the year 2018?

[Ga boy]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's the point. The Chiefs made a concerted effort to prioritize the defense the past two offseasons and immediately got an elite defense that elevated its level of play in the playoffs. The Bills have prioritized defense over offense every year that Allen has been here and not once have they gotten elite defensive play that lasted through the playoffs.

I do credit front office for getting some players during the year to help us win the division.  Did KC or any team lose the likes of Milano, Von and Tre??  Even with those losses, we were just a couple plays from beating KC, and would’ve won the next two.

[beebe]

20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Did you watch football before the year 2018?

 

Andy was the classic "good regular season coach" just like McDermott. He gave boring platitudes about "process" and "sticking with it" at press conferences. He came up just short in the playoffs over and over again. He had issues with "clock management." He was constantly criticized for "abandoning the run." He blew big leads. Not just in Philly but also in Kansas City. In 2013, his first year with the Chiefs, they blew a 28-point lead in the playoffs to the Colts. In 2015, trailing by two scores to the Patriots, Andy oversaw a late scoring drive that basically wiped out the entire game clock and talked afterward about the "importance of calling the right plays." A year later, in 2016, Andy's Chiefs scored two touchdowns, gave up zero touchdowns, and still lost to the Steelers in the playoffs. The next year, in 2017, Andy's Chiefs lost to the Titans led by Marcus Mariota who completed a touchdown pass to ... Marcus Mariota. 

 

Andy was 11-13 in the playoffs. 

 

Many Chiefs fans wanted Andy out and wondered if he would ever win the big one. Philly fans laughed from afar, especially after Doug Pederson got them the Super Bowl Andy could never get: "Yep, that's the Andy Reid we knew. Playoff choker." 

 

Andy's entire reputation has been transformed since Mahomes arrived to town. 

Edited February 22 by beebe

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, beebe said:

Andy was the classic "good regular season coach" just like McDermott.

 

So the answer is no you didn't watch football before 2018. Allow me to educate you. Andy Reid led a worse QB than Josh Allen to 5 conference Championships and 1 Super Bowl. The proper modern comparison for his run in Philly is Kyle Shanahan. Always getting to the finish line but never crossing. McDermott is the modern Marvin Lewis but with an elite QB instead of Andy Dalton.

[Success]

Maybe we can have a separate forum dedicated to Mahomes worship?

 

[beebe]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

So the answer is no you didn't watch football before 2018. Allow me to educate you. Andy Reid led a worse QB than Josh Allen to 5 conference Championships and 1 Super Bowl. The proper modern comparison for his run in Philly is Kyle Shanahan. Always getting to the finish line but never crossing. McDermott is the modern Marvin Lewis but with an elite QB instead of Andy Dalton.

 

He had a 6-time pro bowler in McNabb who they drafted 2nd overall for that entire great Eagles run, the best defensive coordinator in the NFL, and they were always loading up their roster with skill position talent. 

[HappyDays]

16 minutes ago, beebe said:

He had a 6-time pro bowler in McNabb who they drafted 2nd overall for that entire great Eagles run

 

Lol thanks. What does this have to do with what I said? McNabb was not at Allen's level. Period.

 

Why is it that literally every Chiefs fan on here does nothing but troll the board with bad-faith arguments? Three Super Bowl wins isn't enough for you guys? It's never occurred to me to go to the Dolphins board and come up with all-time dumb arguments.

 

Edited February 22 by HappyDays

[Sweats]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Ok let’s go with that. He could’ve given himself a better throw to connect. The only pressure was from Chris Jones. Let’s say he stepped up and connected. TD with almost 2 minutes left and 2 TO for KC. Do you think we’re winning that game seeing KC’s run through the playoffs? That’s what I’m saying about making decisions that give your team the best chance of winning. Take the short. Pick up the first. KC would be forced to use their timeouts. Then use your heroics for the TD with little time left. You’re guaranteed a tie at worst. That’s the game awareness that great QBs need to be concerned with. 

 

 

 

 

You know, i agree 100% with this, however, in that moment, it's on coaching to tell JA to settle down, relax and take the short field one step at a time. We all know JA wants to go for the throat every minute of the game, however, he has to learn to pick his battles one set of downs at a time and that's on coaching to reel him in.

[90sBills]

23 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

You know, i agree 100% with this, however, in that moment, it's on coaching to tell JA to settle down, relax and take the short field one step at a time. We all know JA wants to go for the throat every minute of the game, however, he has to learn to pick his battles one set of downs at a time and that's on coaching to reel him in.

100%. I’d be surprised if they didn’t discussed this stuff on that final drive. But ultimately Allen has the trigger. 
 

If you haven’t seen the video of Brady talking to Allen about the merits of taking the easy plays go check it out. Allen’s expression on that video shows he doesn’t buy into that way of playing the game. We can only hope that his offseason would be spent partly dissecting and improving on this stuff. 

[beebe]

54 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Lol thanks. What does this have to do with what I said? McNabb was not at Allen's level. Period.

 

Why is it that literally every Chiefs fan on here does nothing but troll the board with bad-faith arguments? Three Super Bowl wins isn't enough for you guys? It's never occurred to me to go to the Dolphins board and come up with all-time dumb arguments.

 

 

It's not a troll and it's not a bad faith argument. Just because you can never actually provide any substance in your posts and instead resort to getting personal doesn't mean the post is meritless. 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

So the answer is no you didn't watch football before 2018. Allow me to educate you. Andy Reid led a worse QB than Josh Allen to 5 conference Championships and 1 Super Bowl. The proper modern comparison for his run in Philly is Kyle Shanahan. Always getting to the finish line but never crossing. McDermott is the modern Marvin Lewis but with an elite QB instead of Andy Dalton.

 

McDermott: 73-41, 64% win percentage, 5-6 playoffs

Andy Reid (pre Mahomes): 183-120, 60.3% win percentage, 11-13 playoffs 

Marvin Lewis: 131-122, 51.8% win percentage, 0-7 playoffs

 

Marvin missed the playoffs (9 times) more often than he made it (7 times) and won his division four times in 16 years. 

Edited February 22 by beebe

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, beebe said:

it's not a bad faith argument.

 

Saying he was the "2nd overall pick" is the definition of bad faith argument. By that logic the Jets have done a better job investing in the QB position than the Bills or Chiefs over the past decade. It's a completely meaningless fact that you only threw out because you had nothing susbtantive to say.

 

Like I said, every Chiefs fan on here seemingly started watching football in 2018. I get it. Dynasties bring a lot of bandwagon fans on board.

 

Comparing Andy Reid's run in Philly with McDermott's run in Buffalo and expecting people to take you seriously. 🤣

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

So the answer is no you didn't watch football before 2018. Allow me to educate you. Andy Reid led a worse QB than Josh Allen to 5 conference Championships and 1 Super Bowl. The proper modern comparison for his run in Philly is Kyle Shanahan. Always getting to the finish line but never crossing. McDermott is the modern Marvin Lewis but with an elite QB instead of Andy Dalton.

Andy Reid didn’t have to face Brady in the same conference, much like Shanny doesn’t have to face Mahomes now.

 

Andy lost to Kerry Collins, Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, Brady, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers in the postseason. Some great names in there, and also some not so great names.

Marvin Lewis lost to Matt Schaub, Phil Rivers, Andrew Luck, Big Ben when Andy Dalton was a starter in the NFL. 

 

McD and Allen have lost to Mahomes 3 times and Burrow once (since Josh has been a franchise QB).

 

Shanny has lost to Brady (as OC) Mahomes, Mahomes, Hurts (when his QB got hurt).

your Marvin Lewis comparison fits far more to pre-Mahomes Andy than McD.

 

Shanny and McD are the better comparison. Losing to the greatest QB in the generation isn’t a crime. We face them before an NFC team ever will. 
 

Losing to Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson and Kerry Collins? Man, you’d have burned McD’s house down if he did that. 

[beebe]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Saying he was the "2nd overall pick" is the definition of bad faith argument. By that logic the Jets have done a better job investing in the QB position than the Bills or Chiefs over the past decade. It's a completely meaningless fact that you only threw out because you had nothing susbtantive to say.

 

Like I said, every Chiefs fan on here seemingly started watching football in 2018. I get it. Dynasties bring a lot of bandwagon fans on board.

 

Comparing Andy Reid's run in Philly with McDermott's run in Buffalo and expecting people to take you seriously. 🤣

 

McNabb was easily one of the 10 best quarterbacks of the 2000s. I don't know why you're acting like he's Jeff Garcia or Brad Johnson. He was highly regarded coming out of college and lived up to the hype. He's one of only nine Eagles in their history to have his jersey retired. It wasn't like he was an undrafted free agent.

 

Andy Reid/McNabb were a slightly more successful version of Sean McDermott/Josh Allen in the playoffs.

[Success]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Andy Reid didn’t have to face Brady in the same conference, much like Shanny doesn’t have to face Mahomes now.

 

Andy lost to Kerry Collins, Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, Brady, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers in the postseason. Some great names in there, and also some not so great names.

Marvin Lewis lost to Matt Schaub, Phil Rivers, Andrew Luck, Big Ben when Andy Dalton was a starter in the NFL. 

 

McD and Allen have lost to Mahomes 3 times and Burrow once (since Josh has been a franchise QB).

 

Shanny has lost to Brady (as OC) Mahomes, Mahomes, Hurts (when his QB got hurt).

your Marvin Lewis comparison fits far more to pre-Mahomes Andy than McD.

 

Shanny and McD are the better comparison. Losing to the greatest QB in the generation isn’t a crime. We face them before an NFC team ever will. 
 

Losing to Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson and Kerry Collins? Man, you’d have burned McD’s house down if he did that. 

 

I mean, it's really a stretch to say pre-Mahomes Reid was ANYTHING like McDermott.

 

He made a SB - and could have likely won if McNabb hadn't been sick & thrown 3 INT's.  He went to 5 AFCCG's.

 

We've been to one, in what seems like forever ago.