Mikie2times Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 What QB has ever won the MVP with a 29 and 18 TD to INT ratio. Never has happened. Voters don’t like INT’s. See Purdy. INT’s are probably viewed as more important than even TD’s and the ratio is critical to your chances. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Another poster DM’d me. He’s 106.8 if he checked down to Diggs in the Chiefs playoff game. /s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/22/2024 at 12:09 AM, LABILLBACKER said: The difference between Patrick and Josh is very small. Give Josh coaches like Andy & Spags along with Travis & Tyreek and he's got 2 rings. Both qbs are dead even in athleticism yet Mahomes processes plays faster. Give Patrick McDermott and Dorsey and he's hating life. Mahomes infrastructure is worlds better in KC. In college, Mahomes killed it in spite of poor coaching and skill players that no one's heard of since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 47 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: In college, Mahomes killed it in spite of poor coaching and skill players that no one's heard of since. Alex Smith had the best year of his 13-year career in 2017, the year before Mahomes took over. Smith led an offense with great tackles (Eric Fisher and Mitchell Schwartz) and elite skill position talent (Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt) and was playing for his job trying to hold off Mahomes. Smith finished with 4,042 yards, 26 TDs, 5 INTs, 104.7 QB rating, and KC averaged 25.9 points per game. Mahomes took over as a first-time starter the very next year, with basically the exact same offensive roster. Mahomes finished with 5,097 yards, 50 TDs, 12 INTs, 113.8 QB rating, and KC averaged 35.3 points per game. Smith played with defenses that finished: 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 7th and 15th in points allowed, yet could manage only one playoff victory across five seasons in KC. Mahomes has played with mostly worse defenses by comparison (until 2023), and yet has won 15 playoff games in 18 tries (with losses in OT, OT and in the Super Bowl.) It's almost like it's not all Andy Reid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, beebe said: Alex Smith had the best year of his 13-year career in 2017, the year before Mahomes took over. Smith led an offense with great tackles (Eric Fisher and Mitchell Schwartz) and elite skill position talent (Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt) and was playing for his job trying to hold off Mahomes. Smith finished with 4,042 yards, 26 TDs, 5 INTs, 104.7 QB rating, and KC averaged 25.9 points per game. Mahomes took over as a first-time starter the very next year, with basically the exact same offensive roster. Mahomes finished with 5,097 yards, 50 TDs, 12 INTs, 113.8 QB rating, and KC averaged 35.3 points per game. Smith played with defenses that finished: 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 7th and 15th in points allowed, yet could manage only one playoff victory across five seasons in KC. Mahomes has played with mostly worse defenses by comparison (until 2023), and yet has won 15 playoff games in 18 tries (with losses in OT, OT and in the Super Bowl.) It's almost like it's not all Andy Reid. Who said it was "all" Andy Reid? Edited February 24 by Success 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Many people watch and follow football. Most also dont fully understand it. The hang up people have is the int/ turnover number. They cant look past it. Imo it goes back to his draft narrative. In accurate morphed into too many turnovers. The fact he is on a historic TD rate doesn't matter. For decades it was always TD:Int ratio. Players that throw the ball more and make harder throws throw more picks but they also throw more Tds. In total turnovers vs touchdows Allen is fine historically. Manning threw alot of picks so did Farve, Marino and any other top qb not named Rodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, Mat68 said: Many people watch and follow football. Most also dont fully understand it. The hang up people have is the int/ turnover number. They cant look past it. Imo it goes back to his draft narrative. In accurate morphed into too many turnovers. The fact he is on a historic TD rate doesn't matter. For decades it was always TD:Int ratio. Players that throw the ball more and make harder throws throw more picks but they also throw more Tds. In total turnovers vs touchdows Allen is fine historically. Manning threw alot of picks so did Farve, Marino and any other top qb not named Rodgers. Both Mahomes and Allen have opened the door in major ways for a larger diversity of QB to be drafted in the NFL. With Mahomes, it was widely believed that his Circus-like improvisational style couldn't translate to the NFL, where defenses would make him pay for his lack of discipline and his mechanical slippages. With Allen, it was widely believed that you couldn't coach up accuracy. He was 52.8% and 58.8% his first two years. Well, he's now averaged 65.5% completion percentage the last four years. His turnovers have more to do with forcing the issue and poor decision making than outright accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 8 minutes ago, beebe said: Alex Smith had the best year of his 13-year career in 2017, the year before Mahomes took over. Smith led an offense with great tackles (Eric Fisher and Mitchell Schwartz) and elite skill position talent (Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt) and was playing for his job trying to hold off Mahomes. Smith finished with 4,042 yards, 26 TDs, 5 INTs, 104.7 QB rating, and KC averaged 25.9 points per game. Mahomes took over as a first-time starter the very next year, with basically the exact same offensive roster. Mahomes finished with 5,097 yards, 50 TDs, 12 INTs, 113.8 QB rating, and KC averaged 35.3 points per game. Smith played with defenses that finished: 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 7th and 15th in points allowed, yet could manage only one playoff victory across five seasons in KC. Mahomes has played with mostly worse defenses by comparison (until 2023), and yet has won 15 playoff games in 18 tries (with losses in OT, OT and in the Super Bowl.) It's almost like it's not all Andy Reid. Mahomes was a pretty big upgrade over Alex Smith. The team was also good enough to clinch the 2nd seed. Compare the 2018 KC Chiefs roster vs the 2018 Buffalo Bills roster. The outcome would not be the same. Most likley, Buffalo is exactly where we are now and Allen is on the Chiefs winning with better teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, beebe said: Both Mahomes and Allen have opened the door in major ways for a larger diversity of QB to be drafted in the NFL. With Mahomes, it was widely believed that his Circus-like improvisational style couldn't translate to the NFL, where defenses would make him pay for his lack of discipline and his mechanical slippages. With Allen, it was widely believed that you couldn't coach up accuracy. He was 52.8% and 58.8% his first two years. Well, he's now averaged 65.5% completion percentage the last four years. His turnovers have more to do with forcing the issue and poor decision making than outright accuracy. Some. Some are not. Allen has made about 5 throws that Mahomes made in the superbowl. Difference was the defender slowed down and was a great pass. All 5 for Allen were picked off. One is a great pass and the other 5 for Allen are bad decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 On 2/24/2024 at 12:31 PM, Mat68 said: Mahomes was a pretty big upgrade over Alex Smith. The team was also good enough to clinch the 2nd seed. Compare the 2018 KC Chiefs roster vs the 2018 Buffalo Bills roster. The outcome would not be the same. Most likley, Buffalo is exactly where we are now and Allen is on the Chiefs winning with better teams. People forget that McD/Bean gutted the Bills offense for the 2018 season. That unit was bad. The fact that Allen showed glimpses of the great QB he would become with that group around him is amazing in hindsight. A lot of rookie QB's would have been knocked out of the league facing what Allen faced his rookie year as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Another pro-Allen stat: Allen is by far and away the best QB when trailing by 1-8 points in the 4th Q and OT the last few years: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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