Poor man's Dick Jauron who lucked into the most physically gifted QB ever

[TheFunPolice]

3 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

Losman was arguably in a similar sphere as Allen physically and mentally...he was ruined by poor coaching, but don't let that get in the way of your narrative.

 

The culture on those teams sucked, and they would have never developed Allen into what he is today.

 

I knew people who were friends with Losman when he played here. 

 

The guy worked so hard to be good, but he just didn't "get it" in terms of running an NFL offense. It was not because he didn't have the passion or drive. He was also a little weird/immature, but then again he was a well known guy in his early 20's in a small city with millions of dollars. From what everyone said he seemed like a decent enough guy.

 

We actually met him at the Albright Knox art gallery when they did one of their free Friday night events, if that says anything. He was all by himself and he held the door for us as we were going in and we chatted for a few minutes once we recognized him. 

 

Allen has far superior physical talent and understanding of how to run an NFL offense. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[HardyBoy]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Then he has failed miserably based on all the mistakes he makes game day.

 

He annointed Peterman the starting qb Allen's rookie season.  If Peterwas just awful instead of unplayable how long would have Allen sat?

 

Btw I look at CJ Stroud and wonder just how much McD would have impeaded him if he was the coach.  

 

I say if Allen was brought along like him he'd be further ahead.

 

The plan was always to sit Allen his first year, just like Mahommes sat, they didn't want him to play a single snap...Kolb getting injured and retiring really screwed up the plan and when Peterman flamed out miserably they didn't have a choice.

 

Stroud is a significantly more pro ready prospect who had received top level coaching in college and I would imagine high school...you're not making sense, and I mean that in a way that I want you to be making sense so we can have a meaningful conversation about this...lol, though with the Von news, my guess is this convo is going back burner big time

[Billsfan1972]

17 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

The plan was always to sit Allen his first year, just like Mahommes sat, they didn't want him to play a single snap...Kolb getting injured and retiring really screwed up the plan and when Peterman flamed out miserably they didn't have a choice.

 

Stroud is a significantly more pro ready prospect who had received top level coaching in college and I would imagine high school...you're not making sense, and I mean that in a way that I want you to be making sense so we can have a meaningful conversation about this...lol, though with the Von news, my guess is this convo is going back burner big time

And that was absolutely the worst idea imo.  KC was alteady a good playoff team with a good pro bowl qb (not Peterman).

 

They had no idea at the time that the Mahomes experiment would work.

 

We see what happens with rookies, got to let them learn by playing.  

 

I can’t imagine how far back Allen would have been if he sat a year.

 

Again another indictment of McD.  

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[par73]

McDermott does make me think of Jauron now, with the incessant talk about how tough it is to win. He coaches scared-- too scared of losing to play to win.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

The plan was always to sit Allen his first year, just like Mahommes sat, they didn't want him to play a single snap...Kolb getting injured and retiring really screwed up the plan and when Peterman flamed out miserably they didn't have a choice.

 

Stroud is a significantly more pro ready prospect who had received top level coaching in college and I would imagine high school...you're not making sense, and I mean that in a way that I want you to be making sense so we can have a meaningful conversation about this...lol, though with the Von news, my guess is this convo is going back burner big time

We all know Josh didn't receive high level coaching in high school or college like some of these more polished qbs.  Daboll was probably the first good coach he had. 

[HardyBoy]

37 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We all know Josh didn't receive high level coaching in high school or college like some of these more polished qbs.  Daboll was probably the first good coach he had. 

 

Tell that to the person comparing Allen's rookie season to Stroud's and saying it's an indictment of the Bills coaching staff

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

The plan was always to sit Allen his first year, just like Mahommes sat, they didn't want him to play a single snap...Kolb getting injured and retiring really screwed up the plan and when Peterman flamed out miserably they didn't have a choice.

 

Stroud is a significantly more pro ready prospect who had received top level coaching in college and I would imagine high school...you're not making sense, and I mean that in a way that I want you to be making sense so we can have a meaningful conversation about this...lol, though with the Von news, my guess is this convo is going back burner big time

That doesn't change the fact that McD/Dean completely screwed up Allen's rookie year:

 

*  Started Peterman over Allen - great confidence builder there.

 

*  Didn't give Allen very many 1st team reps during training camp & preseason games - yea that had him ready to be inserted as the starter in week 2.

 

*  Tore the offense down and had arguably the worst collection of talent on the offensive side of the ball of any team in 2018 - they didn't just throw Allen to the wolves they tied his hands and feet together before tossing him out.

 

*  They didn't bring in a veteran QB to mentor Allen until half way through the season.  I guess Bean/McD thought McCarron would fill that role but nobody told A.J.

 

That Allen survived and at times shined his rookie year convinced me he was the guy.  But the idea that Bean/McD deserve credit for creating an environment Allen could succeed in is misplaced IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HardyBoy]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

That doesn't change the fact that McD/Dean completely screwed up Allen's rookie year:

 

*  Started Peterman over Allen - great confidence builder there.

 

*  Didn't give Allen very many 1st team reps during training camp & preseason games - yea that had him ready to be inserted as the starter in week 2.

 

*  Tore the offense down and had arguably the worst collection of talent on the offensive side of the ball of any team in 2018 - they didn't just throw Allen to the wolves they tied his hands and feet together before tossing him out.

 

*  They didn't bring in a veteran QB to mentor Allen until half way through the season.  I guess Bean/McD thought McCarron would fill that role but nobody told A.J.

 

That Allen survived and at times shined his rookie year convinced me he was the guy.  But the idea that Bean/McD deserve credit for creating an environment Allen could succeed in is misplaced IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Allen wasn't supposed to play, they wanted him to sit a year...they tore the offense down because they were doing a rebuild. AJ was supposed to be that player, he didn't pan out.

 

I'm so confused by this post, the plan was to give Allen a redshirt year and not have him play behind that line with those weapons.

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

Allen wasn't supposed to play, they wanted him to sit a year...they tore the offense down because they were doing a rebuild. AJ was supposed to be that player, he didn't pan out.

 

I'm so confused by this post, the plan was to give Allen a redshirt year and not have him play behind that line with those weapons.

And whose fault was it that McCarron didn't pan out?  Down here in Cincy, Bengal fans were happy AJ was signed as they thought he deserved a chance to start somewhere.  And the comments made by AJ and his Bengal teammates was that he was going to Buffalo to win the starting job not babysit a rookie 1st round pick.  There was nothing about McCarrons age, NFL history or attitude that suggested he would be right for that role.

 

And as Mike Tyson famously said "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth".

 

If as you say their plan was to "red shirt" Allen how did that go?  Can we at least agree that their "plan" fell apart and it was Allen & DaBoll not Bean/McD who made lemonade out of a bunch of lemons?

 

 

 

 

[HardyBoy]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

And whose fault was it that McCarron didn't pan out?  Down here in Cincy, Bengal fans were happy AJ was signed as they thought he deserved a chance to start somewhere.  And the comments made by AJ and his Bengal teammates was that he was going to Buffalo to win the starting job not babysit a rookie 1st round pick.  There was nothing about McCarrons age, NFL history or attitude that suggested he would be right for that role.

 

And as Mike Tyson famously said "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth".

 

If as you say their plan was to "red shirt" Allen how did that go?  Can we at least agree that their "plan" fell apart and it was Allen & DaBoll not Bean/McD who made lemonade out of a bunch of lemons?

 

 

 

 

 

I agree their plan fell apart, I don't think anyone has ever said anything different.

 

I won't agree that McD had nothing to do with the development plan for Allen...again read that article I shared about JP Losman and the quote where they were blitzing JP in his first practice like crazy...that was the former Assistant GM saying he was confused by the approach because it was not the right way to develop a rookie qb.

 

Everything they did as a team those first few years in practice once Allen was named the starter had a huge component of developing Josh Allen. McD was the architect of that...to say otherwise or to say McD didn't have a huge positive part in building the space and culture in which Allen could develop and formulating a plan in which his coordinator and position coach and the player himself could maximize that development is straight up ignorant and silly

[Billsfan1972]

12 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

And whose fault was it that McCarron didn't pan out?  Down here in Cincy, Bengal fans were happy AJ was signed as they thought he deserved a chance to start somewhere.  And the comments made by AJ and his Bengal teammates was that he was going to Buffalo to win the starting job not babysit a rookie 1st round pick.  There was nothing about McCarrons age, NFL history or attitude that suggested he would be right for that role.

 

And as Mike Tyson famously said "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth".

 

If as you say their plan was to "red shirt" Allen how did that go?  Can we at least agree that their "plan" fell apart and it was Allen & DaBoll not Bean/McD who made lemonade out of a bunch of lemons?

 

 

 

 

Can we agree it was a stupid plan to begin with?  What top 10 pick sits out the first year?  Mahomes was the exception playing behind an accomplished qb for a playoff team.

5 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

I agree their plan fell apart, I don't think anyone has ever said anything different.

 

I won't agree that McD had nothing to do with the development plan for Allen...again read that article I shared about JP Losman and the quote where they were blitzing JP in his first practice like crazy...that was the former Assistant GM saying he was confused by the approach because it was not the right way to develop a rookie qb.

 

Everything they did as a team those first few years in practice once Allen was named the starter had a huge component of developing Josh Allen. McD was the architect of that...to say otherwise or to say McD didn't have a huge positive part in building the space and culture in which Allen could develop and formulating a plan in which his coordinator and position coach and the player himself could maximize that development is straight up ignorant and silly

32 games and not a 300 yard passing game.  Name another quality qb that went that long in the last 20 years?  48 games McD went without a qb throwing for 300.  That's unheard of today.  Just to give context no one goes a full year.  He went 3.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, HardyBoy said:

 

I agree their plan fell apart, I don't think anyone has ever said anything different.

 

I won't agree that McD had nothing to do with the development plan for Allen...again read that article I shared about JP Losman and the quote where they were blitzing JP in his first practice like crazy...that was the former Assistant GM saying he was confused by the approach because it was not the right way to develop a rookie qb.

 

Everything they did as a team those first few years in practice once Allen was named the starter had a huge component of developing Josh Allen. McD was the architect of that...to say otherwise or to say McD didn't have a huge positive part in building the space and culture in which Allen could develop and formulating a plan in which his coordinator and position coach and the player himself could maximize that development is straight up ignorant and silly

As I see it McD/Bean:

 

*  Botched Allen's rookie season.  Allen succeeded in spite of them.

 

*  In Allen's 2nd season McD/Bean tried to cut corners in rebuilding their offense while continuing to throw resources at the D.  Signing Morse was the best thing they did but the rest of the signings and draft capitol used were hardly big time.  And no, Brown/Beasley were not splash signings they were smart pick ups that elevated what had been the worst WR group in the NFL but they were hardly big time moves giving Allen top of the line WR's.

 

*  In Allen's 3rd season McD/Bean finally made a splash signing on offense to help their young franchise QB by signing Diggs. This not only helped Allen to burst into the elite ranks of QBs but the Bills made it all the way to the AFC championship game.  And they did this on the strength of their offense NOT their D. 

 

*  In Allen's 4th & 5th seasons the Bills reverted to the bargain basement approach in constructing an offense as they continued to lavish FA money & draft picks on their D.  After coaching malpractice wasted the otherworldly elite play of Allen in 2021 and their cheap ass efforts to build an O line resulted in the Bills having one of the worst lines in the NFL by the end of the 2022 season we had two more years of elite QB play wasted by Bean/McD.

 

*  In Allen's 6th year they finally threw some draft capitol at the offense and I suspect we'll be happy with Kincaid & Torrens for years to come. But for the Bills SB window it was to little to late.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Can we agree it was a stupid plan to begin with?  What top 10 pick sits out the first year?  Mahomes was the exception playing behind an accomplished qb for a playoff team.

 

I agree.  It's one thing if the Bills had a solid, veteran QB like Alex Smith to play the role they apparently wanted McCarron or, gulp, Peterman to fill.  But given Allen's play in 2018 surrounded by so little talent on the offensive side of the ball it was clear as day that Allen should have been named the starter at the beginning of training camp.

 

Think about what that fool McD tried to do here.  He didn't want to hand Allen the job (we had a process don't you now) so he created a fake competition between Allen & Peterman which he allowed Peterman to win.  I guess McD was trying to show that high 1st round pick Allen that you earn the job not have it handed to you.  You know in the same way he showed Cook that if you fumble the ball you don't get back on the field for a few series.  The problem was that Peterman wasn't some grizzled vet who knew how to play QB he was a SECOND YEAR player whose previous start had resulted in his throwing a record FIVE INT's in the first half.  Yea this is the guy McD decided to start over his lottery #1 pick.  Please.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I agree.  It's one thing if the Bills had a solid, veteran QB like Alex Smith t play the role they apparently wanted McCarron or, gulp, Peterman to fill.  But given Allen's play in 2018 surrounded by so little talent on the offensive side of the ball it was clear as day that Allen should have been named the starter at the beginning of training camp.

 

Think about what that fool McD tried to do here.  He didn't want to hand Allen the job (we had a process don't you now) so he created a fake competition between Allen & Peterman which he allowed Peterman to win.  I guess McD wast trying to show that high 1st round pick Allen that you earn the job not have it handed to you.  You know in the same way he showed Cook that if you fumble the ball you don't get back on the field for a few series.  The problem was that Peterman wasn't some grizzled vet who knew how to play QB he was a SECOND YEAR player whose previous start had resulted in his throwing a record FIVE INT's in the first half.  Yea this is the guy McD decided to start over his lottery #1 pick.  Please.

 

That is why I have no trust in McD.  Add to that complementary football, one of Allen's best assets, his running being taken away this year, and anything about the offense that comes out of his mouth.....

[Julio Hopkins]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The problem was that Peterman wasn't some grizzled vet who knew how to play QB he was a SECOND YEAR player whose previous start had resulted in his throwing a record FIVE INT's in the first half.  Yea this is the guy McD decided to start over his lottery #1 pick.  Please.

 

 

 

That five interception start almost prevented them from making the playoffs and ending the drought.  Something Micky D gets massive credit for ending with such a poor roster. 

 

A poor roster because his lackey GM tore it down to get into a better draft position to draft a QB.  The year after Mahomes and Watson were available when the Bills picked.  

 

Adding to this post, if Allen wasn't the magical unicorn of QB prospects.  They would have missed out on Lamar Jackson too.  

Edited December 1, 2023 by Julio Hopkins

[Matt_In_NH]

Anyone comparing McDermott to Jauron is poor intellectually. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Anyone comparing McDermott to Jauron is poor intellectually. 

Jauron went to Yale. 

5 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Tell that to the person comparing Allen's rookie season to Stroud's and saying it's an indictment of the Bills coaching staff

Almost like one guy was a two time Heisman finalist who played in one of the best conferences in college and the other wasn’t 1st/ 2nd Mountain West his last year in college. 
 

anyone who doesn’t give the Bills credit for helping Allen develop into the player he is now is pretty dumb. 

[HardyBoy]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

Almost like one guy was a two time Heisman finalist who played in one of the best conferences in college and the other wasn’t 1st/ 2nd Mountain West his last year in college. 
 

anyone who doesn’t give the Bills credit for helping Allen develop into the player he is now is pretty dumb. 

 

Right! I'm open to having conversations about stuff I don't agree about, and I personally think firing McD would be a mistake, but I'm open to changing my mind...just the the ridiculous things people are saying that aren't based in logic or reality and just show they have an opinion that isn't changing and they will say anything, even if it's actually the total opposite of reality...it makes it super hard

 

I thought people said the Hamlin thing changed how people were watching the team and put it into perspective...it's gotten worse since

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

Right! I'm open to having conversations about stuff I don't agree about, and I personally think firing McD would be a mistake, but I'm open to changing my mind...just the the ridiculous things people are saying that aren't based in logic or reality and just show they have an opinion that isn't changing and they will say anything, even if it's actually the total opposite of reality...it makes it super hard

 

I thought people said the Hamlin thing changed how people were watching the team and put it into perspective...it's gotten worse since

I’m the same way. I’m not head over hills about McDermott but to act he had this Josh Allen or Poyer/ Hyde were these players before they got here is wrong. 
 

Happiness is a product of your expectations. And we have been really spoiled for the last few years. 

[Matt_In_NH]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Jauron went to Yale. 

Jauron is a smart man

[Billsfan1972]

The bills ranked 31st 29th and 24th in offense the first three years under McD please don't pretend he was any help to the offense. By the way the year before they were in the top half of the league and Tyrod looked serviceable.