Trump wants to ban ABORTION, IVF, MIFEPRISTONE nationwide and JAIL doctors who provide care.

[Tommy Callahan]

ITs a state issue.

 

where peoples vote and representation is much stronger than the federal.

 

 

[ChiGoose]

“Oh hey, these laws are poorly written and are having disastrous consequences.”

 

ItS a StAtE iSsUe. I aM sMaRt

Edited April 9 by ChiGoose

[Tommy Callahan]

"Dobbs" said it's a state issue.

 

 

 

Every one of us has more representation at the state and local level than the federal.

 

 

[ChiGoose]

ItS a StAte IsSuE. wE wIlL vOtE tO hArM wOmEn BeCaUsE dEmOcRaCy. I aM a SeRiOuS pErSoN. 

[BillStime]

 

[Tommy Callahan]

What happens if someone takes those medications after the first trimester?

Any negative side effects?

 

I live in NY, we not only allow electives till birth, we pay for them.

 

Why do facts trigger you so hard.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9 by Tommy Callahan

[ChiGoose]

Asks a bunch of questions, spits a bunch of nonsense, misses the point, is completely unable to address the actual issues. 
 

“Do My FaCtS tRiGgEr YoU?”

[Tommy Callahan]

Facts got big bird triggered to reading like a spoiled child. 

 

 

 

 

[ChiGoose]

Nah man, just laughing at you. So simple, so naive. Like a precious little cinnamon bun.

[Tommy Callahan]

bIg BiRd BiG mAd At FaCtS

 

You are what you attempt to call others. 

 

Or answer the question.  Are there side affects of taking those drugs after a certain date.  

Edited April 9 by Tommy Callahan

[BillStime]

23 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

What happens if someone takes those medications after the first trimester?

Any negative side effects?

 

I live in NY, we not only allow electives till birth, we pay for them.

 

Why do facts trigger you so hard.

 

 

 

 

 

Hmmm.... I wonder if the medical and pharmaceutical community has already addressed your concerns.

 

 

[ChiGoose]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

bIg BiRd BiG mAd At FaCtS

 

You are what you attempt to call others. 

 

Or answer the question.  Are there side affects of taking those drugs after a certain date.  

What a dumb question. Every drug has side effects. 
 

Mifepristone is safer than Tylenol. Should we ban Tylenol?

[Tommy Callahan]

28 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

What a dumb question. Every drug has side effects. 
 

Mifepristone is safer than Tylenol. Should we ban Tylenol?

Silly false dichotomy.  Tylenol doesn't need a script for very real medical reasons.  You guys always reference science. But here your going with feeling and pr over science. 

 

One more time. What kinda of side affects can happen if used after a certain date?

 

Severe hemorrhaging, death? Stroke?  Tylenol has those warnings.  

 

Eff safety and science.  It's about beating the other team, eh 

[ChiGoose]

30 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Silly false dichotomy.  Tylenol doesn't need a script for very real medical reasons.  You guys always reference science. But here your going with feeling and pr over science. 

 

One more time. What kinda of side affects can happen if used after a certain date?

 

Severe hemorrhaging, death? Stroke?  Tylenol has those warnings.  

 

Eff safety and science.  It's about beating the other team, eh 

If you have an opinion, state it. If you want to say “mifepristone should be banned because reasons x, y, and z,” then say so.

 

Don’t play stupid guessing games that waste everyone’s time. It’s childish. 
 

My opinion: mifepristone should not be banned because it has been proven to be safe and effective. 

[BillStime]

 

[Tommy Callahan]

“Mifepristone should be prescribed by doctors and used in the safest way for the mother.  As it is now.

 

only the left is talking about banning it, when confronted about the push back to making it mail order and removing safety protocols.

 

 

 

But then again, same thing you did with Books in Florida and other topics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9 by Tommy Callahan

[ChiGoose]

The changes the right is so upset about:

 

“The Mifepristone REMS Program was modified on January 3, 2023. Under the Mifepristone REMS Program:

 

Mifepristone must be prescribed by a health care provider that meets certain qualifications and is certified under the Mifepristone REMS Program.

 

In order to become certified to prescribe mifepristone, health care providers must complete a Prescriber Agreement Form.

 

The Patient Agreement Form must be reviewed with and signed by the patient and the health care provider, and the risks of the mifepristone treatment regimen must be fully explained to the patient before mifepristone is prescribed.

 

The patient must be provided with a copy of the Patient Agreement Form and mifepristone Medication Guide (FDA-approved information for patients).

 

Mifepristone may only be dispensed by or under the supervision of a certified prescriber, or by a certified pharmacy on a prescription issued by a certified prescriber.

 

To become certified to dispense mifepristone, pharmacies must complete a Pharmacy Agreement Form.

 

Certified pharmacies must be able to ship mifepristone using a shipping service that provides tracking information.

 

Certified pharmacies must ensure mifepristone is dispensed to the patient in a timely manner.”

 

(FDA) 

[Tommy Callahan]

Thank for the link explaining its mail order and that Teladoc and pharmacies can hand it out.

 

It's all good. I am sure those forms have nothing to do with protecting liability for the first time someone is rushed to the hospital or has life changing/ending complications.

 

It works fine for most as long as it's given under 10 weeks.  and then one still has to take misoprostol within 48 hours.

 

"The abortion pill is sometimes advertised online, however, according to the FDA, the majority of those pills are not legal and might be ineffective, counterfeit, tainted, and unsafe.3,4 

While some women prefer to take the abortion pill because they feel it will be more comfortable to have their abortion at home, the oversight of a doctor is still vital. A medical abortion is not an option for women who can not make follow-up visits to their doctor or don’t have access to emergency care."

 

The abortion pill is about 98% effective at ending a pregnancy, depending on how early it’s taken. The later in the pregnancy the abortion occurs, the more likely there is to be a complication or failed abortion.

 

The rate of abortion-related ER visits following a medical abortion has risen dramatically in the last several years,11 so it’s important to be aware of the risks before making a decision about your health. Abortions should never be administered without medical supervision.

According to research, the greatest risks are:

Compared to surgical abortion, women who take the abortion pill have a 53% greater risk of an ER visit for an abortion-related reason.12

The most common adverse outcome is an incomplete abortion requiring follow-up surgery.13

The most dangerous complications from the mifepristone are hemorrhaging and bacterial infection. These serious conditions can require blood transfusions, cause long term health effects, and lead to death, so it is vital to seek medical attention quickly if you experience any of the severe side effects listed above

 

Eff, when I went to school plan B was in the vending machines.  It was all kinds of controversial at first.  

 

the funny thing was the vending machine was usually empty by Friday as many used/use them as prophylactics.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wacka]

The left looks at the Constitution and sees "This is what I FEEL it means", not the actual words on the parchment.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Discharge paperwork when my wife had to be treated for miscarriages: “Spontaneous Abortion”

 

Discharge paperwork when my wife thought she was having a miscarriage (but thankfully wasn’t): “Threatened Abortion”

 

Basically every hospital looking at these laws: “life of the mother” means we are potentially liable if we terminate a pregnancy with a “heartbeat” (even if it’s nonviable) when the mother’s life is not at risk. 

Basically every lawyer looking at these laws: “life of the mother” means you are potentially liable if you terminate a pregnancy with a “heartbeat” (even if it’s nonviable) when the mother’s life is not at risk. 
 

MAGA: “nuh uh. Everyone is wrong except me, facts and logic be damned.”

 

What was that about Dunning-Kruger Effect again? 

 

If a pregnant woman has signs of a miscarriage (bleeding, abdominal pain) and a good-faith effort is made to search for a fetal heart beat and none is found, one can confidently declare it's a miscarriage.  The ultrasound is the evidence.  Everything else is political machinations.

[B-Man]

 

 

REMINDER:

 

 

 

[BillStime]

 

[ChiGoose]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

 

What was that about Dunning-Kruger Effect again? 

 

If a pregnant woman has signs of a miscarriage (bleeding, abdominal pain) and a good-faith effort is made to search for a fetal heart beat and none is found, one can confidently declare it's a miscarriage.  The ultrasound is the evidence.  Everything else is political machinations.

Hey buddy, you can be having a miscarriage while there is still a “heartbeat.”
 

That’s the problem with these stupid laws. If the pregnancy is nonviable or the mother is experiencing miscarriage symptoms but there is still a fetal “heartbeat,” by law they need to wait until the life of the mother is in danger. 
 

It’s really dumb and illogical, but that’s why it’s a GOP policy. 

 

Read like, literally any story about this coming out of Texas. 

[BillStime]

Welcome to The Handmaid's Tale

 

 

[Pokebball]

6 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Welcome to The Handmaid's Tale

 

 

What would you do with those that break the law?

[BillStime]

48 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

What would you do with those that break the law?

 

HA - the lack of foresight is astounding considering the Republican nominee for the President of the United States is out on bail.

[Pokebball]

Just now, BillStime said:

 

HA - the lack of foresight is astounding considering the Republican nominee for the President of the United States is out on bail.

Bail is a legal process. Again, what would you do with someone that broke the law?

[ChiGoose]

15 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Bail is a legal process. Again, what would you do with someone that broke the law?

If you’re implying that the natural consequence of outlawing abortion is punishing women and doctors, I agree. 
 

In fact, the natural consequence of fetal personhood (which is gaining popularity on the right) is banning IVF and prosecuting women who have abortions and their doctors for first degree murder. 
 

I just happen to agree with the majority of Americans that those laws are stupid and warrant fighting against. 

Edited April 10 by ChiGoose

[Pokebball]

10 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

If you’re implying that the natural consequence of outlawing abortion is punishing women, I agree. 
 

In fact, the natural consequence of fetal personhood (which is gaining popularity on the right) is banning IVF and prosecuting women who have abortions for first degree murder. 
 

I just happen to agree with the majority of Americans that those laws are stupid and warrant fighting against. 

Yeah, I think many laws are stupid, but I obey them. I will also work, legally, to change some of these laws.

 

But since you're talking politics instead of law, I think the 1860 abortion law in Arizona is stupid. I also think that anyone that believes the Arizona Governor didn't intentionally let that play out after the SCOTUS decision, is stupid. Last weeks headlines were written a year and a half ago. What's your opinion about the dem governor using this for political purposes, rather than getting a current abortion bill worked?

 

Human life does have a starting point. I'm not sure when you think that is. Mine is supported by science.

Edited April 10 by Pokebball

[BillStime]

18 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Bail is a legal process. Again, what would you do with someone that broke the law?

 

I can't take seriously someone who is out on bail preaching about law and order.

 

Those who break the law should be held accountable, but don't blame me when your party consistently loses.

[Pokebball]

Just now, BillStime said:

 

I can't take seriously someone who is out on bail preaching about law and order.

 

Those who break the law should be held accountable, but don't blame me when your party consistently loses.

I'm not out on bail

[ChiGoose]

If the people who claim to oppose abortion really wanted to reduce abortions without harming women, they’d address the root causes of abortions. 
 

But they never do (and often oppose proven effective methods) so it’s hard to believe them when they say that’s their goal. 

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

If the people who claim to oppose abortion really wanted to reduce abortions without harming women, they’d address the root causes of abortions. 
 

But they never do (and often oppose proven effective methods) so it’s hard to believe them when they say that’s their goal. 

The even bigger joke is them saying they are "pro-life." They fought tooth and nail against people being able to get insurance.

[Pokebball]

21 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

If the people who claim to oppose abortion really wanted to reduce abortions without harming women, they’d address the root causes of abortions. 
 

But they never do (and often oppose proven effective methods) so it’s hard to believe them when they say that’s their goal. 

If the people who claim to oppose harming women over abortion really wanted to, they would address the root causes of harming women!

 

did I do that right

[ChiGoose]

8 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

If the people who claim to oppose harming women over abortion really wanted to, they would address the root causes of harming women!

 

did I do that right

Well, if you ask Dems if they want to make having kids more affordable and provide better opportunities and support to people with financial difficulties while ensuring that people can get prenatal care, good parental leave, and affordable childcare, they’d probable all be on board. 
 

Do you think the GOP would?

[Pokebball]

5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Well, if you ask Dems if they want to make having kids more affordable and provide better opportunities and support to people with financial difficulties while ensuring that people can get prenatal care, good parental leave, and affordable childcare, they’d probable all be on board. 
 

Do you think the GOP would?

they'd also be probably all on board

[BillStime]

 

[BillStime]

 

[ChiGoose]

3 hours ago, Pokebball said:

they'd also be probably all on board

 

I wish you were correct, but the GOP tends to oppose expanding healthcare, increasing access to contraceptives, and affordable childcare. There are signs however, that they are rethinking their opposition to parental leave.

 

It would be smart for them to revisit these policies. Dobbs is incredibly unpopular with the average American. If the GOP were open to these things, Speaker Johnson could put them on the House floor and force Dems to choose to support their stated policies or keep the issue alive for the election (not unlike how the GOP went back on their proposed border deal.

[Pokebball]

12 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I wish you were correct, but the GOP tends to oppose expanding healthcare, increasing access to contraceptives, and affordable childcare. There are signs however, that they are rethinking their opposition to parental leave.

 

It would be smart for them to revisit these policies. Dobbs is incredibly unpopular with the average American. If the GOP were open to these things, Speaker Johnson could put them on the House floor and force Dems to choose to support their stated policies or keep the issue alive for the election (not unlike how the GOP went back on their proposed border deal.

Everyone wants these things. The difference in philosophy is how to accomplish it.

 

The Border deal? The GOP passed their border bill in the house. HB2 is sitting on Schumer's desk collecting dust. Dems haven't passed a border bill yet because Schumer couldn't get the support he needed in the Dem controlled senate.