Don't like drafting for need just for need sake.

[newcam2012]

  On 2/26/2023 at 1:25 PM, Chaos said:

there is one plug and play offensive linemen in the draft. Get Henry and Skoronski in the same step. 

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Love it!

[Nextmanup]

  On 2/24/2023 at 4:52 PM, BarleyNY said:

FA is for need, the draft is for long term team building. Teams that draft for need do so at their own peril. 

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Bills have done a good bit of that under the Beane administration.

 

Don't believe me, look at the facts.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

  On 2/26/2023 at 2:19 PM, Nextmanup said:

Bills have done a good bit of that under the Beane administration.

 

Don't believe me, look at the facts.

 

 

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If that’s the case we are failing in the draft. If you’re using prime draft assets on Boogie Basham, AJ Epenesa, Cody Ford, etc… that’s a problem. You need your prime assets to get difference makers not rotational players. 

[PrimeTime101]

  On 2/24/2023 at 4:52 PM, BarleyNY said:

FA is for need, the draft is for long term team building. Teams that draft for need do so at their own peril. 

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so I agree and disagree with this statement. FA IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE FOR NEED! that is a captain obvious statement. But one could argue the Diggs move was long term building. Some times you don't just get fa for short term thus your statement is a mixed bag.  How drafting is done, is a mix of 1. need, 2. talent and then how the cookies crumble to your pick.

 

My statement below explains it the best. If you think our needs are not important to how we or teams draft then your nuts.

 

  On 2/24/2023 at 4:57 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

sigh. this conversation comes up every year around this time.

 

1. You have a set of positions of need and a rank for how high the need is

2. Your draft nominees have your own GM ranking system that is ranked by talent.

3. When the draft pick comes they look at their needs and look at what is left in the draft talent wise for the position.

 

So. GM has a set of ranks for potential draft picks and a set of ranks where they need players. Then they choose by what is the best talented player for their top few needs. 

 

Another words..  IF the GM's needs in this order are WR, OL, HB (just as an example) and the most talented by far player left is a HB, then they will choose HB. If HB is BPA (Best Player Available) to their needs, but OL is a very close second and OL is a much higher scaled need? Then they will do a slight "reach" to get their need because the talented player levels are close enough to do so.

 

None of has have a CLUE what our GM and HC draft philosophies are other than... we have a defensive minded HC.

 

Another words.. BPA is a real thing, yet it is not as simple as that. 

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[BarleyNY]

  On 2/26/2023 at 4:09 AM, JohnNord said:

You’ve bought into GM speak.  All teams always draft for need and based on those needs they go BPA.  Maybe toward the end of the draft they go more BPA over needs but make no mistake about it -  team needs are a factor with every premium pick in the draft 

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I think you are looking at the real draft the way fans look at interactive mock drafts. Prospects don’t stack neatly like that in real life. Rarely is there one player sticking out on a team’s board. Usually a group of similarly rated players at different positions to chose from. Easy to take one where there’s a bigger need. Teams that force picks to fill immediate needs are the ones that you see reaching for that. Good teams do consider need, but it is more long term and they put themselves into position to take better talent and more impactful players.

Edited February 26, 2023 by BarleyNY

[BarleyNY]

  On 2/26/2023 at 3:04 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

so I agree and disagree with this statement. FA IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE FOR NEED! that is a captain obvious statement. But one could argue the Diggs move was long term building. Some times you don't just get fa for short term thus your statement is a mixed bag.  How drafting is done, is a mix of 1. need, 2. talent and then how the cookies crumble to your pick.

 

My statement below explains it the best. If you think our needs are not important to how we or teams draft then your nuts.

 

 

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Again, I’m speaking to teams that rely on the draft to fulfill IMMEDIATE needs. 

[PrimeTime101]

  On 2/26/2023 at 5:48 PM, BarleyNY said:

Again, I’m speaking to teams that rely on the draft to fulfill IMMEDIATE needs. 

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we don't do that?

[JohnNord]

  On 2/26/2023 at 5:43 PM, BarleyNY said:

I think you are looking at the real draft the way fans look at interactive mock drafts. Prospects don’t stack neatly like that in real life. Rarely is there one player sticking out on a team’s board. Usually a group of similarly rated players at different positions to chose from. Easy to take one where there’s a bigger need. Teams that force picks to fill immediate needs are the ones that you see reaching for that. Good teams do consider need, but it is more long term and they put themselves into position to take better talent and more impactful players.

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You are really my underselling how teams consider need.  IMO need is probably the single biggest factor that determines a selection.  There are many teams that have rookies start at key positions on a football team - that is because they prioritized the need rather than BPA.  
 

There’s a few misnomers in this thread.  #1 someone said that the draft is for BPA and free agency is for filling needs.  In a perfect world this makes sense, it doesn’t work that way in reality.  If you need a left tackle and are cash strapped, you probably have a better chance at success drafting an LT than you do signing a vet minimum player like Bobby Hart.  Obviously, if all the tackles with a R1  are off the board when a team selects, teams will draft another position in R1, and draft the tackle in later rounds.  This, again, is an example of drafting for need.  
 

Second, you claimed that the Bills drafting Rosseau and Basham was drafting for need.  I completely disagree.  While the Bills did need to get younger at Edge, they had Epinesa from the previous year along with vets like Jerry Hughes and Mario Addison.  You could argue that DE wasn’t a pressing need in 2021.  
 

I think they Bills drafted Boogie Basham simply because he was rated highly on their board and was available.  You can argue that Center was a bigger need, and yet the Bills went with DE.  In my opinion, this is an example of drafting BPA and a key reason why a lot of teams don’t usually do it in round 1z. 

  On 2/26/2023 at 5:48 PM, BarleyNY said:

Again, I’m speaking to teams that rely on the draft to fulfill IMMEDIATE needs. 

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Almost every selection in Round 1 of the 2022 NFL Draft filled an IMMEDIATE need.  

 

 

[BarleyNY]

  On 2/27/2023 at 1:32 AM, JohnNord said:

You are really my underselling how teams consider need.  IMO need is probably the single biggest factor that determines a selection.  There are many teams that have rookies start at key positions on a football team - that is because they prioritized the need rather than BPA.  
 

There’s a few misnomers in this thread.  #1 someone said that the draft is for BPA and free agency is for filling needs.  In a perfect world this makes sense, it doesn’t work that way in reality.  If you need a left tackle and are cash strapped, you probably have a better chance at success drafting an LT than you do signing a vet minimum player like Bobby Hart.  Obviously, if all the tackles with a R1  are off the board when a team selects, teams will draft another position in R1, and draft the tackle in later rounds.  This, again, is an example of drafting for need.  
 

Second, you claimed that the Bills drafting Rosseau and Basham was drafting for need.  I completely disagree.  While the Bills did need to get younger at Edge, they had Epinesa from the previous year along with vets like Jerry Hughes and Mario Addison.  You could argue that DE wasn’t a pressing need in 2021.  
 

I think they Bills drafted Boogie Basham simply because he was rated highly on their board and was available.  You can argue that Center was a bigger need, and yet the Bills went with DE.  In my opinion, this is an example of drafting BPA and a key reason why a lot of teams don’t usually do it in round 1z. 

Almost every selection in Round 1 of the 2022 NFL Draft filled an IMMEDIATE need.  

 

 

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You are confusing team that get immediate production from early picks with teams that reach to fill needs and have to start those rookies. 

[Don Otreply]

  On 2/26/2023 at 2:22 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

If that’s the case we are failing in the draft. If you’re using prime draft assets on Boogie Basham, AJ Epenesa, Cody Ford, etc… that’s a problem. You need your prime assets to get difference makers not rotational players. 

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Getting “Prime assets” are a “need”  for every team, all draft picks are for need…, BPA/BPA at position of need are both needs, it is never not done for  a perceived need. 

 

[Fetou]

Drafting talented players who produce will eventually result in having more flexibility to meet all of your needs anyhow. The core issue is finding talent. We seem to struggle at that regardless of the position