C.Biscuit97 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 While realizing that it is a part of the territory to take shots at former Bills, there are two that I question why has so much hate has been hurled their way. The two I have in question are Doug Flutie and Travis Henry. I don't ever recall so many personal attacks that thrown at two players. Starting with Flutie (not to reharsh this too much), but I believe he was the last QB to take us to the playoffs. Regardless if you thought he was a gimmick player (though Eric Moulds had his best year with Flutie) and that our defense was really good, Flutie helped contribute some big plays to win games. He helped spark a team that was going nowhere and lead us to the playoffs the two years he started. He had a record setting game at Miami in the playoffs, had us in position to tie until Andre gets a 15 yard penalty, and we all know what happened after that. Then, after coming back the next year to lead us to the playoffs again, gets benched in a meaningless game, RJ steps in, and Flutie is told RJ is going to start the playoff game. Are you kidding me??? It may have been the single most insulting blow to any NFL player in history. The guy was pissed and stated as such. What other player who wanted to win won't be??? But how is the guy remembered by some? As a whiny, mullet-wearing midget. I don't get it. As for Travis, he grew up in Florida as a Bills fan. He realized his dream, was drafted by us, and became a very good RB with two seasons up there with any top 10 back (check the stats). He had his faults such as fumbling (I believe Tik fumbled more that Henry but he fixed his problem) and blocking (which probably was pretty weak). So how was he rewarded? The team spent a 1st round pick on a RB when it was a potential playoff team coming back. Now it looks like a very good pick, but Henry didn't have a right to be pissed off. Now because he wants to be a starter and leave the Bills, he is all of a sudden a molestor, who is as dumb as a pet rock. The guy played on a partially broken leg. He was the only legimate weapon on our offense in 2003. Could he have handled the situation better? Yes he probably could. But the team seriously didn't care too much about him when they drafted Willis. The point of this rant is both of these guys were warriors for the Bills. They were both undersized (I know in Flutie's case very undersized) but gave everything for the team. They were probably heartbroken over their situations. They wanted to win and thought they could help the team win. Now my question to those who hate and throw personal insults at them is why??? Just please explain to why remember them negatively when they contributed some much positive. Are we that so short-sighted??? Thanks for your time. Go Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 First of all, good post! Doug Flutie was one of the most exciting football players I have ever seen. It is a crime that he spent so much time in the CFL. He always was an NFL caliber qb. My primary gripe with Flutie was when he booked a superbowl gig for his band while the Bills were still alive in the playoffs. Sorry, there is no excuse for this. Imo, Flutie was one of, if not the ONLY qb of that particular time that could have won with the Bills. We had the absolute WORST OL in the NFL back then. Remember? Flutie thrived on broken plays/pass protection. RJ was killed by it. Flutie had glaring limitations mind you, but he had a winning record. Travis is a loser. Look at the Bills W/L record when he was the starter, please. When he WAS running well, he was coughing up the football. The 04 Bills started to win just as soon as his stupid ass was removed from the starting lineup. This is a fact that cannot be disputed. Travis cannot block nor catch. In 04, in addition to his already proven shortcomings, he was sliding on his stupid ass, untouched, in front of huge holes and on crucial plays to boot. Do you deny this? Now, he wants off the Bills. I love the Buffalo Bills football team and I am a fan of WNY. Does this somehow obligate me to sing the praises of a player who, in my opinion, is not good, and wants to be off of our beloved football team? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I agree with your posts. The only thing that bothers me about Travis is his seeming unwillingness to fight for his starting position. Now, it may be Willis would play no matter what to justify his selection, but my gut tells me that MM would stand up to TD and say TH gives us the best chance to win, and thats who we are playing. Think MM standing up to Ralph last year tells you he has got the courage of conviction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Flutie was a midget locker room cancer with a mullet that is all the envy of the New England area, and Travis is a child-molesting locker room cancer with the mental capacity of a mop and Ray Charles balancing his checkbook. What we need are team players. People with experience, but class. People who can carry a team on its shoulders when the chips are down. Like Drew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Let the record state I like Travis and hate Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Anyone know if doug was one of the injured ones in the fight with the lion in cambodia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in SC Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Yes, ON THE FIELD these two were both warriors with considerable talent who gave it their all. The hostility seems to be pretty much unrelated to their play and is much more personal, e.g., off-field comments they may have made and alleged behaviors. And, oh yes, two attributes over which they have no control - Flutie's height and Travis' intelligence. Ever wonder how many who refer to Flutie as "the Midget" or something similar are shorter than he is? Or, ever wonder how many who refer to Travis as "an idiot" are (fill in the blanks)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Flutie was a midget locker room cancer with a mullet that is all the envy of the New England area, and Travis is a child-molesting locker room cancer with the mental capacity of a mop and Ray Charles balancing his checkbook. What we need are team players. People with experience, but class. People who can carry a team on its shoulders when the chips are down. Like Drew. 342776[/snapback] You should give us a list of Bills players that it is OK to like and or dislike. It would make it easier to post, and we could all adhere to your specific rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilsBills Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Yes, ON THE FIELD these two were both warriors with considerable talent who gave it their all. The hostility seems to be pretty much unrelated to their play and is much more personal, e.g., off-field comments they may have made and alleged behaviors. And, oh yes, two attributes over which they have no control - Flutie's height and Travis' intelligence. Ever wonder how many who refer to Flutie as "the Midget" or something similar are shorter than he is? Or, ever wonder how many who refer to Travis as "an idiot" are (fill in the blanks)? 342787[/snapback] hmmmmm..... you could be right. For the record, I liked them both and I am taller than Doug and smarter than Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichFan Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 You should give us a list of Bills players that it is OK to like and or dislike. It would make it easier to post, and we could all adhere to your specific rules. 342790[/snapback] Jeez, having a bad day? He just offered his opinion as many others have in the topic -- don't see why you think he was dictating. Personally I like both players. But I agree with LABillz that both put themselves before the team and thus need/needed to be gotten rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 While realizing that it is a part of the territory to take shots at former Bills, there are two that I question why has so much hate has been hurled their way. The two I have in question are Doug Flutie and Travis Henry. I don't ever recall so many personal attacks that thrown at two players. Starting with Flutie (not to reharsh this too much), but I believe he was the last QB to take us to the playoffs. Regardless if you thought he was a gimmick player (though Eric Moulds had his best year with Flutie) and that our defense was really good, Flutie helped contribute some big plays to win games. He helped spark a team that was going nowhere and lead us to the playoffs the two years he started. He had a record setting game at Miami in the playoffs, had us in position to tie until Andre gets a 15 yard penalty, and we all know what happened after that. Then, after coming back the next year to lead us to the playoffs again, gets benched in a meaningless game, RJ steps in, and Flutie is told RJ is going to start the playoff game. Are you kidding me??? It may have been the single most insulting blow to any NFL player in history. The guy was pissed and stated as such. What other player who wanted to win won't be??? But how is the guy remembered by some? As a whiny, mullet-wearing midget. I don't get it. As for Travis, he grew up in Florida as a Bills fan. He realized his dream, was drafted by us, and became a very good RB with two seasons up there with any top 10 back (check the stats). He had his faults such as fumbling (I believe Tik fumbled more that Henry but he fixed his problem) and blocking (which probably was pretty weak). So how was he rewarded? The team spent a 1st round pick on a RB when it was a potential playoff team coming back. Now it looks like a very good pick, but Henry didn't have a right to be pissed off. Now because he wants to be a starter and leave the Bills, he is all of a sudden a molestor, who is as dumb as a pet rock. The guy played on a partially broken leg. He was the only legimate weapon on our offense in 2003. Could he have handled the situation better? Yes he probably could. But the team seriously didn't care too much about him when they drafted Willis. The point of this rant is both of these guys were warriors for the Bills. They were both undersized (I know in Flutie's case very undersized) but gave everything for the team. They were probably heartbroken over their situations. They wanted to win and thought they could help the team win. Now my question to those who hate and throw personal insults at them is why??? Just please explain to why remember them negatively when they contributed some much positive. Are we that so short-sighted??? Thanks for your time. Go Bills. 342720[/snapback] Hate for Travis is unfounded. He needs to fire his agent who's been giving him some very bad advice. Fruitie was a lockerrooom cancer who didn't know the meaning of the word "team". When things went wrong, it was everybody else's fault but his own. When things went right, he was to congratulated and not his teammates. Sorry, but even Jimbo never thought or said anything remotely like this. Moreover, when RJ left the field during a playoff game, the team had the lead. Fruitie, on the other hand, singlehandedly fumbled away that playoff game all by himself. Now tell me, who deserves the hate and who doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 hmmmmm..... you could be right. For the record, I liked them both and I am taller than Doug and smarter than Travis 342794[/snapback] who ISN'T taller than Doug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 Hey thanks for the responses... It definitely clears some things up... Everyone is entitled to their opinions and everyone made good points... didn't know about Fluite booking a gig for his band during the Super Bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 You should give us a list of Bills players that it is OK to like and or dislike. It would make it easier to post, and we could all adhere to your specific rules. 342790[/snapback] Or you could lighten the hell up and learn how to spot sacrcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Or you could lighten the hell up and learn how to spot sacrcasm. 342862[/snapback] Yeah, that too. Maybe it IS me, but your posts are frequently hard to gauge. In any event, sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I don't hate Travis because he was a Bills fan before he was a Bill and he always gave it his all. He just isn't the same caliber back as Willis. I see people more frustrated that he is still on the team knowing what a whiner he can be. I felt that Doug's play slipped terribly his final year here as a starter, yet for some reason he felt that he was still the "savior" of the team. I don't think he could have cared less about the Buffalo Bills fact being he was a New Englander though and through. Instead of a Jim Kelly who never put himself first, in Doug we saw an opportunist who was just trying to use the Bills to pump up his own legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 While realizing that it is a part of the territory to take shots at former Bills, there are two that I question why has so much hate has been hurled their way. The two I have in question are Doug Flutie and Travis Henry. I don't ever recall so many personal attacks that thrown at two players. Starting with Flutie (not to reharsh this too much), but I believe he was the last QB to take us to the playoffs. Regardless if you thought he was a gimmick player (though Eric Moulds had his best year with Flutie) and that our defense was really good, Flutie helped contribute some big plays to win games. He helped spark a team that was going nowhere and lead us to the playoffs the two years he started. He had a record setting game at Miami in the playoffs, had us in position to tie until Andre gets a 15 yard penalty, and we all know what happened after that. Then, after coming back the next year to lead us to the playoffs again, gets benched in a meaningless game, RJ steps in, and Flutie is told RJ is going to start the playoff game. Are you kidding me??? It may have been the single most insulting blow to any NFL player in history. The guy was pissed and stated as such. What other player who wanted to win won't be??? But how is the guy remembered by some? As a whiny, mullet-wearing midget. I don't get it. As for Travis, he grew up in Florida as a Bills fan. He realized his dream, was drafted by us, and became a very good RB with two seasons up there with any top 10 back (check the stats). He had his faults such as fumbling (I believe Tik fumbled more that Henry but he fixed his problem) and blocking (which probably was pretty weak). So how was he rewarded? The team spent a 1st round pick on a RB when it was a potential playoff team coming back. Now it looks like a very good pick, but Henry didn't have a right to be pissed off. Now because he wants to be a starter and leave the Bills, he is all of a sudden a molestor, who is as dumb as a pet rock. The guy played on a partially broken leg. He was the only legimate weapon on our offense in 2003. Could he have handled the situation better? Yes he probably could. But the team seriously didn't care too much about him when they drafted Willis. The point of this rant is both of these guys were warriors for the Bills. They were both undersized (I know in Flutie's case very undersized) but gave everything for the team. They were probably heartbroken over their situations. They wanted to win and thought they could help the team win. Now my question to those who hate and throw personal insults at them is why??? Just please explain to why remember them negatively when they contributed some much positive. Are we that so short-sighted??? Thanks for your time. Go Bills. 342720[/snapback] I never liked the fact he never admitted he had to scramble to make plays and had great difficulty throwing over the middle, getting a lot of balls batted down. This was due to his height. Look at the tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfladave Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Yeah, that too. Maybe it IS me, but your posts are frequently hard to gauge. In any event, sorry about that. 342872[/snapback] I automatically assume LA is being sarcastic when cognitive skills are needed to understand it. "The highest functions of our brains handle the lowest form of wit. An investigation by Simone Shamay-Tsoory and colleagues shows that the ability to understand sarcasm depends on a carefully orchestrated sequence of complex cognitive skills in specific parts of the brain." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Yeah, that too. Maybe it IS me, but your posts are frequently hard to gauge. 342872[/snapback] Here's a good rule of thumb: the minute you think I'm being serious about topics like Flutie, realize I'm being sarcastic. It's not often I live in the past, and if I do, I try to limit myself to mistakes I could possibly make again or watching Frank Reich orchestrate a comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 "WHY I DO NOT LIKE DOUG FLUTIE" I never liked Flutie, even before he was a Buffalo Bill. His ego was legendary before he ever donned the red, white and blue. There are a number of other reasons as well. He was one of a handful of NFL players that broke the players picket in 1987 (Gary Hogeboom, and Lawrence Taylor are the only other two that come to mind, though I am sure there were a few more) during the NFL players strike. I know we are living in a very anti-union atmosphere right now, but growing up in WNY, and having a very pro-union family, that was pretty bad. And, I remember Flutie, during those strike games, saying something to the effect of "I just want the opportunity to show that I can play in this leauge". My reaction, knowing what I know now about him, should have been," what self centered assh**e!" It didn't help that I couldn't stand him before that either. I remember cringing when there was a very vocal core of Bills fans (in 1985 there weren't many, so all were heard) who were obsessed with the Bills taking Flutie with the #1 pick in the draft that year. Thankfully, smarter heads prevailed, and Bruce Smith was selected instead... In 1998, when AJ Smith decided to lure Flutie back to the NFL (beind the support of crap talent NFL talent evaluater Mike Ditka), I nearly crapped my pants...surely, I thought, they cannot be friggin' serious! I was relieved, a month or two later, when they traded for Rob Johnson! Hey, hindsight is 20-20! So, Flutie plays for the Bills. I love that team, more than I could hate any one player. I really wanted to let bygones be bygones, and let some of the bitterness toward the guy go. It didn't take long though, for it to come back, full throttle... It was in the aftermath of what was maybe Flutie's most memorable play as a Buffalo Bill. It was that end around run, to win that game against the Jaguars. It was a great play, I will hand it to the man. It was just the classlessness that he displayed afterwards, that cemented my dislike for him. In the press conference after the game, Flutie the toast of Buffalo, drops the bombshell that the particular play was designed as a hand off to Thurman Thomas, but that Thurman ran the wrong way, missed his block, so "I had no other choice but to take matter into my own hands, and win the game!" It was not just embarassing a proud teammate who had given his blood for that team, if you look at the replay, it likely wasn't true. It is very apparent, whatever play was called, Flutie had planned on running it in himself, to bask in the glory and adulation, the split second that ball was snapped. I have heard rumour (I can only substantiate by saying that I have a very good friend, whose sister has worked in the Bills front office for nearly 15 years- I know, we hate those kind of rumours) that it did not sit well with a number of players on the team. Even if it were true, Flutie already had the spotlight, he didn't need to show up Thurman. There were similar rumours and innuendos that there was a lot of carrying on about Andre Reed, to the coaches, that led to his being less and less a part of the offense. The final reason I have for disliking Flutie, is rooted in the final game of the 1998 season, in New Orleans. By that time, Flutie was entrenched as the Bills starting QB, and Flutie mania was at its' peak. The Bills had already sewn up a wild-card birth, and had nothing to gain or lose that depended on the outcome of the game. Wade Phillips had decided to let Rob Johnson start the game, as he had been nicked and injured a good part of the season (who knew it would become an old familiar tune!). It was known on Saturday that RJ was the starter. On game day, having had more than 24 hours (hell it may have been the whole week) to let it sink in, Flutie sulked on the sidelines like the selfish jerk he was. My buddy and I moved from our seats, down to some empty seats behind the Bills bench. Doug Flutie spent the entire game, about 15 to 20 yards down field, away from his teammates, sitting on his helmet, sulking like a high-school girl. RJ had one of his finest games as a Bill, and was pretty much perfect that day. At one point, after a long TD pass, RJ came running off the field to high-five his "mentor" (the animosity between the two was only starting to burn). What did the mentor do? He literally looked the other way. You could see it was killing him that Johnson was having a great game. Throughout the game, players would trot down the field to acknowledge Flutie. He just stared ahead...he was very visably pissed off. In fact, throughtout the game, the only players he acknowledged were Thurman Thomas and Bruce Smith. As the game became a ruanway (okay, the Saints did make a late rally) and players were getting loose and celebrating on the sidelines, Flutie just pouted. Bruce Smith, usually characterizied as being not really fan friendly, was slapping hands, signing aoutogrpahs, and high fiving the fans along the side. It was Christmas weekend, the team seemed truly jazzed about going to Miami to face the Dolphins the next week in the wild card game. One kid wanted a box of Flutie flakes signed. He kept yelling out "Doug, Doug, Doug". Flutie wouldn't acknowledge any fans. Granted, at that moment, he was one of the most popular players in the NFL, but not even then? Finally, Bruce Smith took the box from the kid, walked it down to Flutie, and he signed it. I have been to lots of Bills games over the years. I don't think I ever witnessed a more self absorbed player as Flutie was that day. I pulled for Flutie as long as he was our QB, but I must say, he is the one player in my near 30 years of obsessing over the team, that I had to begrudingly pull for. I would never deny that he had a knack for finding ways to make plays, and the fact that he made things interesting. I just never liked him as a guy, particularly on my favorite team. The only thing that could compare for me, being a huge Celtics fan, was I never really liked Danny Ainge. But, as far as I know, other than being whinny, he was always a team first player. I am not sure one could say that about Flutie. He may have finally grown up in San Diego, but I could care less about him now...unless of course he starts a game against us, for the Patriots... Travis Henry you ask? I like 'em. His only crime, as far as I am concerned, is that he is not as good as Willis McGahee... Giving Fake Fat Skinny a run for his money- buftex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasily Zaytsev Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Flutie was a midget locker room cancer with a mullet that is all the envy of the New England area, and Travis is a child-molesting locker room cancer with the mental capacity of a mop and Ray Charles balancing his checkbook. What we need are team players. People with experience, but class. People who can carry a team on its shoulders when the chips are down. Like Drew. 342776[/snapback] hey screw you dirtbag.......we prefer dwarfs.....and chicks dig my hair...so take off hoser!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I was one who didn' tmind Flutie or Rj for that matter. Personally I thought both had major limits in their game. Neither started for very long and only Rj was expected to be the long term solution, but after watching him for a few games everyone realized that wasn't heppening. SO as far as that goes don't dislike either of those guys. Pet Rock on the other hand was never a very good running back. Made the pro bowl only as a third alternate the one year he did go, which meant he was only selected as the 6th best RB in the AFC. That means even the rest of the league realized that while he had good stright ahead running skills he brought nothing else to the table, and every year he just seemed to get worse at things. He might improve for a game or two and then he seemed to get worse. Even this year he appeared to be catching the ball a little better the first couple of games and then the running wrong routes and dropsies kicked in. But also it seemed even if he improved at something a little then everything else in his game slid twice as much. Take his running this year. Receiving a little better for a couple games, but rushing was horrible, and then the receiving went away. To top it off he never learned to block, between he, his mother and his agent they don't know when to shut up, he is a mental midget, he is a pervert, and basically he isn't a likeable fellow overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I was one who didn' tmind Flutie or Rj for that matter. Personally I thought both had major limits in their game. Neither started for very long and only Rj was expected to be the long term solution, but after watching him for a few games everyone realized that wasn't heppening. SO as far as that goes don't dislike either of those guys. Pet Rock on the other hand was never a very good running back. Made the pro bowl only as a third alternate the one year he did go, which meant he was only selected as the 6th best RB in the AFC. That means even the rest of the league realized that while he had good stright ahead running skills he brought nothing else to the table, and every year he just seemed to get worse at things. He might improve for a game or two and then he seemed to get worse. Even this year he appeared to be catching the ball a little better the first couple of games and then the running wrong routes and dropsies kicked in. But also it seemed even if he improved at something a little then everything else in his game slid twice as much. Take his running this year. Receiving a little better for a couple games, but rushing was horrible, and then the receiving went away. To top it off he never learned to block, between he, his mother and his agent they don't know when to shut up, he is a mental midget, he is a pervert, and basically he isn't a likeable fellow overall. 342999[/snapback] And there's nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 >>> He was one of a handful of NFL players that broke the players picket in 1987 (Gary Hogeboom, and Lawrence Taylor are the only other two that come to mind, though I am sure there were a few more) during the NFL players strike. <<< buftex, thanks for that info. Another scumbag who broke the strike was Jack Del Rio. It was great when Otis Taylor, who imo was one of the top 10 wideouts to ever play the game, kicked his sorry ass as he was crossing the line! To this day, I cringe at the sight sickening sight of Del Rio. I am glad that I saw this supposedly tough linebacker get B word slapped by a receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Toboggan M.D Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Are you sure Doug and Travis have taken the most shots? I would think RJ and Drew have taken worse beatings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Are you sure Doug and Travis have taken the most shots? I would think RJ and Drew have taken worse beatings. 343035[/snapback] And you would be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in SC Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Are you sure Doug and Travis have taken the most shots? I would think RJ and Drew have taken worse beatings. 343035[/snapback] Add Lindell to that group. He is the only one who has been criticized for what he has NOT been allowed to do on the field (attempt long field goals). Meanwhile, what he hs done HAS been pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 >>> He was one of a handful of NFL players that broke the players picket in 1987 (Gary Hogeboom, and Lawrence Taylor are the only other two that come to mind, though I am sure there were a few more) during the NFL players strike. <<< buftex, thanks for that info. Another scumbag who broke the strike was Jack Del Rio. It was great when Otis Taylor, who imo was one of the top 10 wideouts to ever play the game, kicked his sorry ass as he was crossing the line! To this day, I cringe at the sight sickening sight of Del Rio. I am glad that I saw this supposedly tough linebacker get B word slapped by a receiver. 343033[/snapback] And, this was one of those instances where "scabs" really did hurt their union. I know we all think that NFL players are more than adequately compensated (and they are), but compared to the other major sports, the players got hosed from that strike. It is good for us, as fans, but I don't think any other union would have sold its' employees out like the NFL players union did in that strike negotiation. Think about it. NFL players have a shorter average lifespan (both as players and in life) than any of the other major sports (I am still including hockey) and it would seem that their sport puts them at greater bodily risk than either basketball or baseball (hockey is a pretty rough sport too, I will concede), yet their players have the smallest part of their contracts guarenteed. Once a team is done with them, they are done with them, only having to pay the rest of their signing bonus. That is fine if you are Drew Bledsoe, or Kurt Warner, but what about a guy like, say Mario Haggens, or just the average Joe in the NFL? As Fred Smerlas would say about the "scabs", "what a bunch of earfworms!" And this from a leauge that makes more money than any other leauge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 And, this was one of those instances where "scabs" really did hurt their union. I know we all think that NFL players are more than adequately compensated (and they are), but compared to the other major sports, the players got hosed from that strike. It is good for us, as fans, but I don't think any other union would have sold its' employees out like the NFL players union did in that strike negotiation. Think about it. NFL players have a shorter average lifespan (both as players and in life) than any of the other major sports (I am still including hockey) and it would seem that their sport puts them at greater bodily risk than either basketball or baseball (hockey is a pretty rough sport too, I will concede), yet their players have the smallest part of their contracts guarenteed. Once a team is done with them, they are done with them, only having to pay the rest of their signing bonus. That is fine if you are Drew Bledsoe, or Kurt Warner, but what about a guy like, say Mario Haggens, or just the average Joe in the NFL? As Fred Smerlas would say about the "scabs", "what a bunch of earfworms!" And this from a leauge that makes more money than any other leauge.... 343054[/snapback] If there is ANY way you can get your hands on it, try to get a copy of "Necessary Roughness" by Mike Trope. He goes into great length and detail about the strike. Maybe your library has it; I hope so, but imo, this book is a "must read" for a serious football fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Toboggan M.D Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 It has been a while, so im assuming you have forgotten why Flutie was trashed the way he was. I'll get it straight to the point. The only reason Flutie was being bashed was 1) he was not a team player. Seperated the locker room. 2) he did not consistently play good football. He played well at times, and terribly at other times. Whenever the Bills lost, it was always someone else's fault. 3) He was too short. As mobile as he was, he had physical limitations. Many people here believed that RJ had the tools to succeed. Drew Bledsoe. I dont need to get into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Ray Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 buftex, thanks for that info. Another scumbag who broke the strike was Jack Del Rio. It was great when Otis Taylor, who imo was one of the top 10 wideouts to ever play the game, kicked his sorry ass as he was crossing the line! To this day, I cringe at the sight sickening sight of Del Rio. I am glad that I saw this supposedly tough linebacker get B word slapped by a receiver. 343033[/snapback] Not doubting you, but are you sure Del Rio crossed the line? I'm almost positive he was EXTREMELY anti scab. The reason I say extremely is that I remember a piece by one of the network pre-game shows covering the players' picket lines throughout the stadiums across the country, and they showed Del Rio, either a Cowboy or a Chief at the time, toting a shotgun and daring scabs to cross. I'm pretty sure it was Del Rio IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Flutie was a midget locker room cancer with a mullet that is all the envy of the New England area, and Travis is a child-molesting locker room cancer with the mental capacity of a mop and Ray Charles balancing his checkbook. What we need are team players. People with experience, but class. People who can carry a team on its shoulders when the chips are down. Like Drew. 342776[/snapback] Odd how Flutie is labled as "a locker room cancer", yet he is the only QB since Jim Kelly to lead a Bills team to the playoffs. I seem to remember 10 and 11 win seasons with Bruce Smith, Andre, Moulds, Thurman, and the O-line rallying around him. The old core veterans like 78, 83, 80, 34 knew first-hand about big egos and Flutie was just another in a long line. The Johnson/Flutie conflict was the reason the "cancer" label existed. Flutie is a competitor. He may be a major dickwad, perpetuating a lot of the ill will, but if Rob had half of his drive and competitve spirit, maybe he would have amounted to something in the NFL. Travis gives his all. He toughs it out when injured and I thruly think he plays as hard as he can. If he isn't as talented as McGahee, it's not exactly a character flaw. I agree with the sentiment of original post in this thread. I don't understand why it's necessary to assault player's character. Now that LB for the Ravens - the murdering sakoshit - ok...go after him. And yes, he was involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 >>> He was one of a handful of NFL players that broke the players picket in 1987 (Gary Hogeboom, and Lawrence Taylor are the only other two that come to mind, though I am sure there were a few more) during the NFL players strike. <<< buftex, thanks for that info. Another scumbag who broke the strike was Jack Del Rio. It was great when Otis Taylor, who imo was one of the top 10 wideouts to ever play the game, kicked his sorry ass as he was crossing the line! To this day, I cringe at the sight sickening sight of Del Rio. I am glad that I saw this supposedly tough linebacker get B word slapped by a receiver. 343033[/snapback] Not that it means much now, but I started thinking back to the 1987 strike, and was trying to remember some of the vetrans that crossed the picket lines. I couldn't find a comprehenisve list (sorry couldn't find out about Jack Del Rio either, but it sounds vaugely familiar), but here is what I found, in addition to Doug Flutie, there was: Gary Hogeboom (Colts) Lawrence Taylor (Giants) Mark Gastaneau (Jets) Randy White (Cowboys) Leonard Smith (then Cardinals) Keith McKellar (Bills) Robb Riddick (Bills) Carl Byrum (Bills) In the case of Riddick and McKellar, they were receiving treatment for injuries, whatever difference that makes...I am sure there were more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 While realizing that it is a part of the territory to take shots at former Bills, there are two that I question why has so much hate has been hurled their way. The two I have in question are Doug Flutie and Travis Henry. I don't ever recall so many personal attacks that thrown at two players. Starting with Flutie (not to reharsh this too much), but I believe he was the last QB to take us to the playoffs. Regardless if you thought he was a gimmick player (though Eric Moulds had his best year with Flutie) and that our defense was really good, Flutie helped contribute some big plays to win games. He helped spark a team that was going nowhere and lead us to the playoffs the two years he started. He had a record setting game at Miami in the playoffs, had us in position to tie until Andre gets a 15 yard penalty, and we all know what happened after that. Then, after coming back the next year to lead us to the playoffs again, gets benched in a meaningless game, RJ steps in, and Flutie is told RJ is going to start the playoff game. Are you kidding me??? It may have been the single most insulting blow to any NFL player in history. The guy was pissed and stated as such. What other player who wanted to win won't be??? But how is the guy remembered by some? As a whiny, mullet-wearing midget. I don't get it. As for Travis, he grew up in Florida as a Bills fan. He realized his dream, was drafted by us, and became a very good RB with two seasons up there with any top 10 back (check the stats). He had his faults such as fumbling (I believe Tik fumbled more that Henry but he fixed his problem) and blocking (which probably was pretty weak). So how was he rewarded? The team spent a 1st round pick on a RB when it was a potential playoff team coming back. Now it looks like a very good pick, but Henry didn't have a right to be pissed off. Now because he wants to be a starter and leave the Bills, he is all of a sudden a molestor, who is as dumb as a pet rock. The guy played on a partially broken leg. He was the only legimate weapon on our offense in 2003. Could he have handled the situation better? Yes he probably could. But the team seriously didn't care too much about him when they drafted Willis. The point of this rant is both of these guys were warriors for the Bills. They were both undersized (I know in Flutie's case very undersized) but gave everything for the team. They were probably heartbroken over their situations. They wanted to win and thought they could help the team win. Now my question to those who hate and throw personal insults at them is why??? Just please explain to why remember them negatively when they contributed some much positive. Are we that so short-sighted??? Thanks for your time. Go Bills. 342720[/snapback] Tremendous post. The DF haters are mentally deficient.And TH is getting screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 It has been a while, so im assuming you have forgotten why Flutie was trashed the way he was. I'll get it straight to the point.The only reason Flutie was being bashed was 1) he was not a team player. Seperated the locker room. 2) he did not consistently play good football. He played well at times, and terribly at other times. Whenever the Bills lost, it was always someone else's fault. 3) He was too short. As mobile as he was, he had physical limitations. Many people here believed that RJ had the tools to succeed. Drew Bledsoe. I dont need to get into that. 343062[/snapback] Its hard to imagine RJ being able to start for a clloege football team.he was a disaster at USC.Screwed up every time...but boy he had a strong arm and could run--so he MUST be NFL material..LOL. Tools...right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Why the hate for Doug Flutie? That's a joke, right? Locker room politician/cancer Me-first attitude (always) Never blamed himself for losses Openly critical of guys playing ahead of him All-around **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Toboggan M.D Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I also hate Flutie for leaving Thurman out to dry. Resulting in his major injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
envirojeff Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Can we please end this crap? OK, we all love them and they were the best two players to ever put on a Bills uni! and they were the worst scumb bags to ever been run out of town! WHO CARES???? It's over! end of thread. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Its hard to imagine RJ being able to start for a clloege football team.he was a disaster at USC.Screwed up every time...but boy he had a strong arm and could run--so he MUST be NFL material..LOL. Tools...right. 343099[/snapback] I don't understand the NFL's obsession with "tools" guys...like RJ. Yes, Flutie was a jerk. Yes, he was a me-first guy. But all Flutie ever did was leave his heart and soul out on the field. If Flutie were 6-2, teams would have been drooling all over him twenty years ago. Instead, Flutie goes to Canada, where he's probably the best CFL QB of all time. The Canadian game was perfect for him. I always thought Flutie could succeed in the NFL, if given the chance. He did...for a moment. Then, his limitations (ie, getting passes over the middle batted down, his giant ego, etc.) came to the forefront. RJ, on the other hand...ooh, he's big and with a strong arm. What skills. (???) I always believed it was a mistake for the Bills to make him a starter, when he had no track record of success. There was a reason for that. I NEVER thought RJ would be a great NFL QB, because he didn't have the intangibles that, say Bernie Kosar (a guy with much less "talent") had. The things you cannot see (mental toughness, drive, determination, smarts) are so important in this game, especially among the skill players. There has to be some raw talent, but I would move that these intangibles are just as important. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Not that it means much now, but I started thinking back to the 1987 strike, and was trying to remember some of the vetrans that crossed the picket lines. I couldn't find a comprehenisve list (sorry couldn't find out about Jack Del Rio either, but it sounds vaugely familiar), but here is what I found, in addition to Doug Flutie, there was: Gary Hogeboom (Colts) Lawrence Taylor (Giants) Mark Gastaneau (Jets) Randy White (Cowboys) Leonard Smith (then Cardinals) Keith McKellar (Bills) Robb Riddick (Bills) Carl Byrum (Bills) In the case of Riddick and McKellar, they were receiving treatment for injuries, whatever difference that makes...I am sure there were more.... 343093[/snapback] How could you forget Jim Hasslet? He signed on with the JESTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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