leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: what's wrong with the vette? Iconic American muscle car, turned F1 racer. You guys are never happy. Nothing wrong with the Corvette, it’s a beautiful car sought out by your prototypical rich guy with the money to buy such things and the ability to seek out top notch hair replacement therapy. The dopey part was his insinuation that he treated issues of national security on par with his Corvette. FYI—I’ve never run the numbers, but I’d say I’m happy about 95% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 29 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: negligence versus organized attempts to override the legal system. Both bad for sure. One more sinister than the other imo. They're both equally sinister. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 35 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: negligence versus organized attempts to override the legal system. Both bad for sure. One more sinister than the other imo. Gross, seemingly uncaring negligence by both him and his staff all of which he has decried and claim he was above in the recent past. Gets you potentially court martialed and in jail in other, less privileged but supposed to be just as responsible organizations. Totally irresponsible and stupid. I had one experience with this during service time. We had a safe where the stuff was stored, and materials were logged in and out. One guy checked out a TS document which was not allowed out of the squadron building. We do doing an Air Force thing at Nellis, and somebody spotted the red cover and binder in the back of a rental. The guy was not prosecuted, but offered a deal he couldn't refuse. He was out of the service in one month. The items likely discussed in the presidential/vice presidential nonsense were likely briefing documents that are prepared by intel orgs for reading. Staff members should be tasked with providing them and returning them. Just gross failures and negligence. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 33 minutes ago, sherpa said: Gross, seemingly uncaring negligence by both him and his staff all of which he has decried and claim he was above in the recent past. Gets you potentially court martialed and in jail in other, less privileged but supposed to be just as responsible organizations. Totally irresponsible and stupid. I had one experience with this during service time. We had a safe where the stuff was stored, and materials were logged in and out. One guy checked out a TS document which was not allowed out of the squadron building. We do doing an Air Force thing at Nellis, and somebody spotted the red cover and binder in the back of a rental. The guy was not prosecuted, but offered a deal he couldn't refuse. He was out of the service in one month. The items likely discussed in the presidential/vice presidential nonsense were likely briefing documents that are prepared by intel orgs for reading. Staff members should be tasked with providing them and returning them. Just gross failures and negligence. They have this fantasy that Biden is chaste and above reproach. It's really odd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Doc said: They have this fantasy that Biden is chaste and above reproach. It's really odd. not chaste but decent. he f'd up here and it will appropriately cost him. trump's indecent and leading others into indecency. he f's up all the time, often purposefully and it only occasionally costs him. I get it. life's not fair. but I don't cheer for cheaters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 24 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: not chaste but decent. he f'd up here and it will appropriately cost him. trump's indecent and leading others into indecency. he f's up all the time, often purposefully and it only occasionally costs him. I get it. life's not fair. but I don't cheer for cheaters. He's not decent either. He's a career politician. The slimiest of the slimy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Orlando Tim said: Cooperating with law enforcement is not a sign of innocence except to those who already have made their determination of guilt. Trump has always cooperated except when the media said he did not. Lol. Are you high? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Lol. Are you high? So list his convictions of crimes. or the OP comment stands. The MEDIA and lefties want people to focus on the basement. But the real deal is the classified docs found in his Office at the Penn, Biden Think tank. the one where his office did not even open till 2018. and was found by his personal lawyers. Biden had no authority to even see them in 2018, better yet have them at that very shady think tank. (Blinken also worked at, at the same time) Same with his Personal lawyers that found them back in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chris farley said: So list his convictions of crimes. or the OP comment stands. The MEDIA and lefties want people to focus on the basement. But the real deal is the classified docs found in his Office at the Penn, Biden Think tank. the one where his office did not even open till 2018. and was found by his personal lawyers. Biden had no authority to even see them in 2018, better yet have them at that very shady think tank. (Blinken also worked at, at the same time) Same with his Personal lawyers that found them back in November. The poster is saying the Trump cooperates with law enforcement. I can’t think of a single instance in which this is true. We are talking about a guy who obtained much of his wealth through fraud, avoided taxes by lying, routinely flouts the law, commits obstruction as such a normal part of his day that literally half the Mueller report was about him obstructing Justice, and refused to return documents he shouldn’t have, even lying about them to law enforcement. At this point, it’s more likely that Trump is three kids in a trench coat than it is that he cooperates with law enforcement. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 minute ago, ChiGoose said: The poster is saying the Trump cooperates with law enforcement. I can’t think of a single instance in which this is true. We are talking about a guy who obtained much of his wealth through fraud, avoided taxes by lying, routinely flouts the law, commits obstruction as such a normal part of his day that literally half the Mueller report was about him obstructing Justice, and refused to return documents he shouldn’t have, even lying about them to law enforcement. At this point, it’s more likely that Trump is three kids in a trench coat than it is that he cooperates with law enforcement. Half the Mueller report has now been found out to be pure falsehoods. more like propaganda to control a narrative than an investigation. Similar to the 9/11 one. IF he was criminal, he would have a criminal record. IE, a conviction. Shady, hell yeah. Criminal? that would have this thing called a criminal record to make it so. or at least one conviction. BTW. when did Mueller know Sussman was working for Clinton? he kind of left that entire part out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Just now, Chris farley said: Half the Mueller report has now been found out to be pure falsehoods. more like propaganda to control a narrative than an investigation. Similar to the 9/11 one. IF he was criminal, he would have a criminal record. IE, a conviction. Shady, hell yeah. Criminal? that would have this thing called a criminal record to make it so. or at least one conviction. BTW. when did Mueller know Sussman was working for Clinton? he kind of left that entire part out. Ah, I see. You don’t live in reality. My bad. Go on believing whatever garbage you’re being fed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 LMAO. when did Mueller know Sussman was working for Clinton? But totally grasp and expected you to go ad hominem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) Ok, so I know this is absolutely pointless because Occam’s Razor is apparently illegal on this site, but what do we think is more likely given the known facts: 1. When packing up Biden’s things at the end of the Obama administration, classified documents were inadvertently included with his things. When this was discovered many years later, he notified authorities and kicked off a search of all of his stuff to see if there were more documents that needed to be turned over. 2. Biden intentionally took classified documents for nefarious reasons and then suddenly decided that he wanted to get in trouble for it, so he called up the authorities to confess. And instead of just handing everything over, he handed the documents over in batches to keep the story in the headlines and continue to hurt himself politically. The facts we have only support scenario 1 but it seems like most people here believe scenario 2 because it feels good to them. “Feelings over facts” should be the motto of PPP. BTW: It’s good that DoJ appointed a conservative special counsel to investigate Biden. If it comes out that this was all intentional, he should face consequences. It’s just that the current facts don’t support that conclusion. Edited January 16, 2023 by ChiGoose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, Chris farley said: Half the Mueller report has now been found out to be pure falsehoods Substantiate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Ok, so I know this is absolutely pointless because Occam’s Razor is apparently illegal on this site, but what do we think is more likely given the known facts: 1. When packing up Biden’s things at the end of the Obama administration, classified documents were inadvertently included with his things. When this was discovered many years later, he notified authorities and kicked off a search of all of his stuff to see if there were more documents that needed to be turned over. 2. Biden intentionally took classified documents for nefarious reasons and then suddenly decided that he wanted to get in trouble for it, so he called up the authorities to confess. And instead of just handing everything over, he handed the documents over in batches to keep the story in the headlines and continue to hurt himself politically. The facts we have only support scenario 1 but it seems like most people here believe scenario 2 because of it feels good to them. “Feelings over facts” should be the motto of PPP. BTW: It’s good that DoJ appointed a conservative special counsel to investigate Biden. If it comes out that this was all intentional, he should face consequences. It’s just that the current facts don’t support that conclusion. The "facts?" The facts are that intentional or not, he was responsible for properly handling them. The political "class" in this country has diferentiated itself form others, who are sworn to uphold these type of responsibilities. The "feelings," true or not, are yours's. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: 2. Biden intentionally took classified documents for nefarious reasons and then suddenly decided that he wanted to get in trouble for it, so he called up the authorities to confess. And instead of just handing everything over, he handed the documents over in batches to keep the story in the headlines and continue to hurt himself politically. How did they get to that office in the biden, penn think tank in 2018? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Just now, sherpa said: The "facts?" The facts are that intentional or not, he was responsible for properly handling them. The political "class" in this country has diferentiated itself form others, who are sworn to uphold these type of responsibilities. The "feelings," true or not, are yours's. Yeah, and it was wrong for him to have them. But in terms of legal consequences, he isn’t facing serious repercussions at this point because it appears to be a case of negligence and cooperation with law enforcement, not intentional with obstruction. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Just now, ChiGoose said: Yeah, and it was wrong for him to have them. But in terms of legal consequences, he isn’t facing serious repercussions at this point because it appears to be a case of negligence and cooperation with law enforcement, not intentional with obstruction. How did they get to the office in the think tank. and why were they found by lawyers in November, but not even reported till this week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Just now, Chris farley said: How did they get to the office in the think tank. and why were they found by lawyers in November, but not even reported till this week? Good question for the special counsel but if I had to guess: in a box with other stuff. That’s generally how I’ve done it when I have moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 3 hours ago, sherpa said: I had one experience with this during service time. We had a safe where the stuff was stored, and materials were logged in and out. One guy checked out a TS document which was not allowed out of the squadron building. We do doing an Air Force thing at Nellis, and somebody spotted the red cover and binder in the back of a rental. The guy was not prosecuted, but offered a deal he couldn't refuse. He was out of the service in one month. Exactly. One of my experiences in the civilian sector: I supervised a guy who was, without a doubt, the most honest person I ever supervised in the federal government. He would take half a day off for a dentist appointment, then email me to say the appointment went unusually fast and he only needed to take an hour and a half of leave. And lots of other things like that when no one was looking. He was working with a classified file. He got distracted by a call or email or whatever. He went to the restroom, leaving the file on his desk. No reason to think anyone saw it; he was gone for 5 minutes. He called me to self-report a violation. I had to refer it up. That triggered a full investigatory team from DC. They interviewed him. They investigated whether he had any unusual contacts recently. The interviewed everyone with access to his office. Thank goodness they finally found (correctly) no potential damage to national security. He kept his job (and got promoted to my job later on) with just a letter or reprimand: "be more careful." That's one document, one honest guy, one honest mistake, one immediate self-report. Biden, like Trump, will get the full treatment, and he deserves it. His sloppiness or whatever has, at a minimum, taken away a really good talking point for him in the next election. Right now the apparent immediate self-report upon (apparently) discovering the docs is a positive, but we don't -- and won't -- know the full story for some time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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