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Primetime thinks he’s too good for the Hall of Fame


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1 minute ago, machine gun kelly said:


As much as I liked Coach Vermeil as a person, he wasn’t worth a yellow jacket. I can see Shanahan though as he was a winner.  There are others that to me are ahead of Vermiel.

 

Yea agree. I do think it is a shame that top assistants like Gibbs don't make it. Similarly to me, Dick LeBeau is a hall of fame coach. Not for what he did as a Head Coach, which was underwhelming, obviously, but for his work as a DC. He was an innovator who pioneered the zone blitz. Gibbs pioneered the stretch zone run scheme. Those innovators should be adequately recognised IMO. 

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7 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:


My rotten Chester friend, if you believe that, you could say the same about Bruuuce, as he absconded the idea of Boselli being placed in the HOF.  I agree with Deon it has been watered down, but to publically say it is too much.  I don’t think Bruce should’ve said what he did on insta either.  Show some class.

 

BTW, you know I’m just kidding with you.  I almost always like you’re posts.


 

I agree, but what Bruce said was that basically Tony was using 1 game against a HOF DE to get in.  Bruce felt like Tony and his team were belittling Bruce’s accomplishments by saying if Bruce was in the HOF and Tony stoned him - Tony deserves to go in.

 

I do agree that Bruce should have kept his mouth shut, but I get what Bruce was saying - it was that if Tony gets in - all of his accomplishments have to get him in.

 

Deion believes he is better than most of the HOFs and deserves special recognition and that I can not get behind.  
 

I think the Hall has let in way to many people also - especially by having a set number each year, but there is a time and place to have that discussion and via the media right after inductions are held is not the time nor the place.

 

Some of these players and/or their families have been waiting a lifetime for the honor and for Deion to feel he deserves his own area because he was better and he no longer thinks the HOF is an honor just makes me sick.  
 

Just my 2 cents.

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21 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

I agree, but what Bruce said was that basically Tony was using 1 game against a HOF DE to get in.  Bruce felt like Tony and his team were belittling Bruce’s accomplishments by saying if Bruce was in the HOF and Tony stoned him - Tony deserves to go in.

 

I do agree that Bruce should have kept his mouth shut, but I get what Bruce was saying - it was that if Tony gets in - all of his accomplishments have to get him in.

 

Deion believes he is better than most of the HOFs and deserves special recognition and that I can not get behind.  
 

I think the Hall has let in way to many people also - especially by having a set number each year, but there is a time and place to have that discussion and via the media right after inductions are held is not the time nor the place.

 

Some of these players and/or their families have been waiting a lifetime for the honor and for Deion to feel he deserves his own area because he was better and he no longer thinks the HOF is an honor just makes me sick.  
 

Just my 2 cents.


All kidding aside, don’t you think the Hall has been a little watered down?  There are some like Curtis Martin I don’t think deserves to be in as Joes extra point show was about yesterday at least the portion I listened to as the 2022 class.

 

There is no, and I mean NO excuse for Deon’s comments.  He’s a neverending blowhard.  When he publicly was pissed about not being called Coach in one press coverage was ridiculous.

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Just now, machine gun kelly said:


All kidding aside, don’t you think the Hall has been a little watered down?  There are some like Curtis Martin I don’t think deserves to be in as Joes extra point show was about yesterday at least the portion I listened to as the 2022 class.

 

There is no, and I mean NO excuse for Deon’s comments.  He’s a neverending blowhard.  When he publicly was pissed about not being called Coach in one press coverage was ridiculous.


 

Yes - I totally agree with that and have said that throughout.   Especially with the weird large group they did last year. 
 

They have put to many weird groupings in and missed out on others and what Deion said is not wrong - just poorly said and very poorly timed.

 

I just look at the HOF as a wonderful museum of the history of the league and if there are some guys that squeak in because they played 16 years to amass huge numbers or guys that played 7 years, but were instrumental in winning multiple championships - I am ok to have them in.  
 

Having been several times - there are some busts and accomplishments that as a family we sit and look at and talk about more and some we basically ignore and that is ok.  There may be a different family visiting to whom that player we ignored is a big part of their fandom and being in the HOF means something.

 

Having gone years ago to see Andre put into the hall - that entire experience and weekend is wonderful and I wish as many of these guys that put in the work and did incredible things could get in - it does not diminish the accomplishments of others - it allows fans of different generations to enjoy the experience.

 

I think the Football and Hockey HOFs are both watered down and diluted, but I love visiting both of them to see the love and joy it brings.  The Baseball HOF is the least watered down with some all-time historic players not getting in because of actions they may or may not have done and it is the least exciting HOF that I visited.  It feels like a very old museum with nothing new to offer.  Very few players in the hall were ever seen by my kids and if they were it was right at the end.  It needs new blood and life to grow and bring in a new generation, but the purists want it taint free - so few get in.

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26 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:


All kidding aside, don’t you think the Hall has been a little watered down?  There are some like Curtis Martin I don’t think deserves to be in as Joes extra point show was about yesterday at least the portion I listened to as the 2022 class.

 

There is no, and I mean NO excuse for Deon’s comments.  He’s a neverending blowhard.  When he publicly was pissed about not being called Coach in one press coverage was ridiculous.

 

No Curtis Martin? 

 

For consistency, productivity and longevity you have to put him in.  He was quiet, reserved, not overly dynamic, but a damn good football player.  

 

Maybe he should have had a longer wait (?), but 10 straight 1,000 yard seasons, over 17,000 yards from scrimmage and *100 TDs would get anybody in.

 

Now, Frank Gore is going to be a hot debate in 5 years.  I don't think he's a Hall guy, but there's something to be said for longevity, especially at the RB position.

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9 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Now, Frank Gore is going to be a hot debate in 5 years.  I don't think he's a Hall guy, but there's something to be said for longevity, especially at the RB position.

 

Frank Gore can kiss Canton goodbye if he's convicted on these domestic violence charges.

 

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Deion has a massive ago, and really shouldn't be the one saying it.  

But... sadly he is correct.

 

I've been watching the NFL since the late 1980s.  Every year there are coaches and players inducted who I've never even heard of.

Guys should have about 10 years of eligibility, post retirement.  If you can't make it by that point, then you simply don't deserve it.

 

The other problem is the "minimum" number of inductions each year.  The 2022 class we just saw was particularly weak.

I watched the careers of Tony Boselli, Bryant Young, Sam Mills, Leroy Butler and Richard Seymour.  All were pretty good players.  None stood out to me as Hall of Famers, and I was honestly shocked to see them all on the list.  Dick Vermeil as a coach was almost embarrassing.  One Super Bowl win, and barely over .500 in his entire coaching career.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

No Curtis Martin? 

For consistency, productivity and longevity you have to put him in.  He was quiet, reserved, not overly dynamic, but a damn good football player.  

Maybe he should have had a longer wait (?), but 10 straight 1,000 yard seasons, over 17,000 yards from scrimmage and *100 TDs would get anybody in.

Now, Frank Gore is going to be a hot debate in 5 years.  I don't think he's a Hall guy, but there's something to be said for longevity, especially at the RB position.

 

There wasn't a single point during Curtis Martin's career, where I considered him one of the top RBs in the NFL.

He played his entire career for the rival Patriots and Jets.  Yet he was never someone (as a Bills fan) that I worried about us playing.  Never.  

 

I worry about Derrick Henry right now.  I worry about Jonathan Taylor right now.  I never worried about Curtis Martin.

 

It wasn't until his career was pretty much over, and they started talking about the stats he accumulated (yards and touchdowns).  That was the first time I realized Martin was going to get consideration as a Hall of Famer.  It totally caught me off guard.  A guy shouldn't be a Hall of Famer based purely on stats.  Especially when they are accumulated over an abnormally long career.  

 

The exact same logic goes for Frank Gore.

 

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I truly think the people that say Sterling Sharpe doesn't belong in the Hall never watched him play...probably sounds blasphemous now but in his playing days Sterling was the only other receiver on Jerry Rice's level.

 

What Shannon Sharpe said at his induction wasn't just for show

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1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

There wasn't a single point during Curtis Martin's career, where I considered him one of the top RBs in the NFL.

He played his entire career for the rival Patriots and Jets.  Yet he was never someone (as a Bills fan) that I worried about us playing.  Never.  

 

I worry about Derrick Henry right now.  I worry about Jonathan Taylor right now.  I never worried about Curtis Martin.

 

It wasn't until his career was pretty much over, and they started talking about the stats he accumulated (yards and touchdowns).  That was the first time I realized Martin was going to get consideration as a Hall of Famer.  It totally caught me off guard.  A guy shouldn't be a Hall of Famer based purely on stats.  Especially when they are accumulated over an abnormally long career.  

 

The exact same logic goes for Frank Gore.

 


 

This is the exact issue - you don’t want people in strictly based on stats accumulated over a long career.

 

Others don’t want guys that played 6 years, but at a phenomenal level because they did not do it enough.

 

I heard on the radio a guy saying we should use ProBowl and All Pro designations to get entry - a point system and you accumulate so many then it is automatic.

 

The problem is there is no right answer for everyone.  There are guys like Martin that do something amazing by hitting milestone after milestone and yes it is done over a long career, but that should be recognized.

 

Yes a guy like Terrell Davis/Gayle Sayers had short careers, but they lead their team to championships and were elite for a brief flash.

 

There are lots of reasons guys should and should not get in - one of the most frustrating was when there were several worthy(?) WRs waiting to get in and they kept splitting each others vote and it took several years to break the log jam and get them in.  The voters deciding that only 1 WR at a time should get in, but letting a less worthy player at a different position in.

 

I don’t really care about the politics and the why - I enjoy the HOF even if it is watered down and it is an honor no matter how many people get in.  
 

 

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2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

There wasn't a single point during Curtis Martin's career, where I considered him one of the top RBs in the NFL.

He played his entire career for the rival Patriots and Jets.  Yet he was never someone (as a Bills fan) that I worried about us playing.  Never.  

 

I worry about Derrick Henry right now.  I worry about Jonathan Taylor right now.  I never worried about Curtis Martin.

 

It wasn't until his career was pretty much over, and they started talking about the stats he accumulated (yards and touchdowns).  That was the first time I realized Martin was going to get consideration as a Hall of Famer.  It totally caught me off guard.  A guy shouldn't be a Hall of Famer based purely on stats.  Especially when they are accumulated over an abnormally long career.  

 

The exact same logic goes for Frank Gore.

 

 

I agree with the accumulation of stats argument, but Curtis didn't hang around years after his prime to do it. 

 

10 of his 11 seasons were 1,000 seasons.  He went for 1,200 or more 7 of those 10.  There were no frills about him, although he cut and slashed well.  He was just fundamentally sound and effective. 

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11 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

I agree with the accumulation of stats argument, but Curtis didn't hang around years after his prime to do it. 

 

10 of his 11 seasons were 1,000 seasons.  He went for 1,200 or more 7 of those 10.  There were no frills about him, although he cut and slashed well.  He was just fundamentally sound and effective. 

 

Sure.  But GOOD for a long-time, is not the same as GREAT.

 

In my opinion, the Hall of Fame should be reserved for the "Best of the Best."

The guys other players and coaches are afraid to play against.  The guys who dominate on a regular basis.

 

Barry Sanders was a Hall of Famer.  Emmitt Smith was a Hall of Famer.  Thurman Thomas was a Hall of Famer.  LaDainian Tomlinson was a Hall of Famer.  I saw Curtis Martin's entire career, and wouldn't put him anywhere near that conversation.  Compared to current NFL backs, he was probably on the same level as someone like Nick Chubb or Dalvin Cook would be today.  He just managed to stay healthy, and do it for a longer time (when most RBs would start declining around 7-8 years).

 

The Pro-Bowl is for good players.  Having a bust in the Hall of Fame should be reserved for legends.

 

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13 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

This is the exact issue - you don’t want people in strictly based on stats accumulated over a long career.

 

Others don’t want guys that played 6 years, but at a phenomenal level because they did not do it enough.

 

I heard on the radio a guy saying we should use ProBowl and All Pro designations to get entry - a point system and you accumulate so many then it is automatic.

 

The problem is there is no right answer for everyone.  There are guys like Martin that do something amazing by hitting milestone after milestone and yes it is done over a long career, but that should be recognized.

 

Yes a guy like Terrell Davis/Gayle Sayers had short careers, but they lead their team to championships and were elite for a brief flash.

 

There are lots of reasons guys should and should not get in - one of the most frustrating was when there were several worthy(?) WRs waiting to get in and they kept splitting each others vote and it took several years to break the log jam and get them in.  The voters deciding that only 1 WR at a time should get in, but letting a less worthy player at a different position in.

 

I don’t really care about the politics and the why - I enjoy the HOF even if it is watered down and it is an honor no matter how many people get in.  
 

 

 

That is the problem.  

Too many HOF voters are looking for numerical milestones, instead of just looking at the player himself. 

 

Focus too much on stats and you get players like Frank Gore, who were never GREAT... just good for a really long time.

Focus too much on Super Bowls and you get players like Richard Seymour... who pretty much just gets in, because he played for the Patriots.

 

The Pro-Bowl is basically a popularity contest, which is further watered-down because half the players decide not to play... forcing them to bring in alternates.  Mac Jones made it this year, for crying out loud.  Tyrod Taylor was an alternate in 2015.

 

I do understand the problem with guys having short careers, and that's where some players can be questionable.  I never saw Gale Sayers play, but I did watch Terrell Davis.  He was an absolute monster during his first 4 years, but was never the same after his injuries.  Personally I think his career was a little TOO short, but I can see why some feel differently.

 

The WR log jam from a few years ago was stupid.  But at the end of the day, I think a bunch of borderline players ended up sneaking in.  I'll admit I wanted to see Andre Reed for selfish reasons (as a Bills fan), but I'm not absolutely certain he belongs.  He is just as deserving as Tim Brown, Chris Carter, Art Monk, etc... but I'm not really sure those guys were HOF guys either.  I've often stated that Eric Moulds is the best Bills receiver of All-Time, and I know I'm not the only fan who feels that way.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Sure.  But GOOD for a long-time, is not the same as GREAT.

 

In my opinion, the Hall of Fame should be reserved for the "Best of the Best."

The guys other players and coaches are afraid to play against.  The guys who dominate on a regular basis.

 

Barry Sanders was a Hall of Famer.  Emmitt Smith was a Hall of Famer.  Thurman Thomas was a Hall of Famer.  LaDainian Tomlinson was a Hall of Famer.  I saw Curtis Martin's entire career, and wouldn't put him anywhere near that conversation.  Compared to current NFL backs, he was probably on the same level as someone like Nick Chubb or Dalvin Cook would be today.  He just managed to stay healthy, and do it for a longer time (when most RBs would start declining around 7-8 years).

 

The Pro-Bowl is for good players.  Having a bust in the Hall of Fame should be reserved for legends.

 

 

 

Fair enough.  That's very strict criteria and I completely understand where you're coming from.  I wouldn't have a problem if this were the standard, but the NFL is long past that point.  

 

For the record, I believe Dalvin Cook is WAY more dynamic than Martin or Chubb.  I'm actually looking forward to seeing him in this revamped Minnesota offense.  It seems like Kevin O'Connell will be using Dalvin to his fullest potential as an all purpose guy.  If you could turn off injuries like in Madden, Dalvin Cook would widely be considered the best back in football.  I'm extremely high on him.  5 years in the league and he has a 4.7 ypc average for his career and is an above average pass catcher at the position.

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