Tenhigh Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 What does everyone think of this practice and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Ballot harvesting is just a natural result of destroying a republic through perpetually-expanding suffrage and direct elections. If you believe in “democracy” and universal suffrage you necessarily must believe that ballot harvesting is, at worst, morally neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffarukus Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) i picked absolutely not because there was no option for yes with MAJOR oversight. unfortunately even with that i think harvesting in general is ripe for corruption because the oversight will most likey be provided by entities that stand to benifit. a big issue with voting in general is a large segment of the population is just not that informed or cares about politics in general, let alone particular issues we face. yet segments of the population would like these people to participate, almost force it. as long as its as easy as clicking a netflix show they will..more votes does not equal better democracy in this regard. it dilutes. requiring a minimal amount of effort to perform this civic duty such as acquiring a id with plenty of time beforehand is as basic as it gets and even that gets over the top calls of suppression. "helping" a elderly person who has cognative issues cast a vote? going door to door to badger people to make sure they cast. i just so happen to have a ballot for you, fill it out with a gentle reminder of what a particular politician will do for you. the occupant rolls their eyes and "gets it over with". are these the votes that represents the voice of the people? theres obvious challenges when it comes to people voting when it comes to in person. plenty of people who want to but can't. im just not sure why absentee does not address these issues when it comes to them. i have seen no opposition to people using it? are there requirements that exclude people from this method if they cannot do in person where harvesting is a better option? ive never needed it so maybe its a blind spot i dont understand. Edited January 8, 2022 by Buffarukus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Of course, some people can't do either, and THOSE are the people mail-in ballots are for............................NOT "convenience" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 What is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I don't know enough about it to say but as long as the people that are voting are actual citizens of the US, not illegal, are actually alive & not deceased & have the mental capacity to know what, who & why they are voting for someone then i guess i would be alright with it ... People that are here illegally should have NO say or any voting rights at all ! I will say that the folks that are here Illegally that have a business and have paid into the system for a certain amount of time should be fast tracked into the system to become a citizen . Those that come here just to get free bees unless for some certain maybe refugee type circumstances should still not be able to vote but we can help & get them to become a citizen in time . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, T master said: I don't know enough about it to say but as long as the people that are voting are actual citizens of the US, not illegal, are actually alive & not deceased & have the mental capacity to know what, who & why they are voting for someone then i guess i would be alright with it ... People that are here illegally should have NO say or any voting rights at all ! I will say that the folks that are here Illegally that have a business and have paid into the system for a certain amount of time should be fast tracked into the system to become a citizen . Those that come here just to get free bees unless for some certain maybe refugee type circumstances should still not be able to vote but we can help & get them to become a citizen in time . What do you think about people claiming fraud just because they lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Democracy: replacing the voters you have with the voters you want. https://www.axios.com/new-york-city-mayor-noncitizen-voting-bill-427e8768-ce8d-4238-becd-75d05d384cff.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_content=politics-nyc Quote More than 800,000 noncitizens can vote in local elections after New York City Mayor Eric Adams allowed legislation to take effect on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, Tiberius said: What do you think about people claiming fraud just because they lose? I think it's total BS if there is in fact no evidence what so ever to support the claim but as in a court case if there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt or even a small amount of evidence that supports the claim then there is or could be something made of the claim . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Just now, T master said: I think it's total BS if there is in fact no evidence what so ever to support the claim but as in a court case if there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt or even a small amount of evidence that supports the claim then there is or could be something made of the claim . So Trump and the rest of the GOP that went along with the Big Lie are full of BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: So Trump and the rest of the GOP that went along with the Big Lie are full of BS I don't know i have heard that in some states that there were cases of fraud but not enough to make a difference so if that is true then what he was implicating that there was fraud is not a lie because there actually was but unlike me some are not willing to see it for what it is and try to embellish it to be something to fit what they would have it be rather than what it is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, T master said: I don't know enough about it to say but as long as the people that are voting are actual citizens of the US, not illegal, are actually alive & not deceased & have the mental capacity to know what, who & why they are voting for someone then i guess i would be alright with it ... People that are here illegally should have NO say or any voting rights at all ! I will say that the folks that are here Illegally that have a business and have paid into the system for a certain amount of time should be fast tracked into the system to become a citizen . Those that come here just to get free bees unless for some certain maybe refugee type circumstances should still not be able to vote but we can help & get them to become a citizen in time . Some problems: 1)ballot harvesting targets illegals, deceased, and incapacitated people. That is the point: political agents bringing in votes from unknown sources. 2)in some (blue) states, it is against the law to ask about citizen status. It's basically an honor system. 3)Hoping that illegals are acting legally. 4)No way to know intentions. ie; Afganistan refugee debacle Basically, we would need to hold discovery hearings for every single case; which is what is supposed to happen, but fills up the holding centers which leads to the media calling them concentration camps. We need media reform? Just now, T master said: I don't know i have heard that in some states that there were cases of fraud but not enough to make a difference so if that is true then what he was implicating that there was fraud is not a lie because there actually was but unlike me some are not willing to see it for what it is and try to embellish it to be something to fit what they would have it be rather than what it is . Can't look for fraud until they prove there is fraud... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 minute ago, T master said: I don't know i have heard that in some states that there were cases of fraud but not enough to make a difference so if that is true then what he was implicating that there was fraud is not a lie because there actually was but unlike me some are not willing to see it for what it is and try to embellish it to be something to fit what they would have it be rather than what it is . No, they said the election was stolen. Still are saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: No, they said the election was stolen. Still are saying it. So then if they are saying it & there is any evidence no matter how small pointing to it being or having any truth then follow it up to see which is what happened when a paid for in a phony document was brought up in the collusion case which then it was found to be BS yet there are those that still claim even after proof of it being BS to be the truth . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 On 1/8/2022 at 7:40 AM, LeviF said: perpetually-expanding suffrage Ohh, for the days of white male landowners and white male landowners alone ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) On 1/8/2022 at 7:40 AM, LeviF said: If you believe in “democracy” and universal suffrage you necessarily must believe that ballot harvesting is, at worst, morally neutral. Why wouldn't I believe that? Look, there's one rational argument against "ballot harvesting" (as typically thought of): it opens the door for an easier means of paying off people for their votes. That is already illegal. But imagine someone wants to "buy" my vote, with money or with some payment in kind. He approaches me and gives me $20. I go into the polling place, behind the curtain, and, lo and behold, screw him over by casting my vote for another candidate. Hah! Joke's on him. He paid me for my vote, but I got the last laugh. Take away that final private step and it opens the door to more shenanigans. I'm not ridiculing the proposition - it's a real problem. If mail-in/drop-off ballots are "harvested" en masse at, say, a nursing home, there is some potential that the harvester won't just be transporting ballots, but will actually be filling them out (or directing, under observation, senile old people to fill them out in a particular way). But here's a hint: starting off with a spirited defense of 1789-style limited suffrage doesn't help to convince many people .... Edited January 10, 2022 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 25 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: starting off with a spirited defense of 1789-style limited suffrage doesn't help to convince many people .... Which just makes my point for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Georgia Launches ‘Ballot Harvesting’ Investigation. https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/chris-queen/2022/01/05/georgia-launches-ballot-harvesting-investigation-n1547253 57% want Ballot Harvesting banned, only 20% disagree. https://scottrasmussen.com/57-want-ballot-harvesting-banned-20-disagree/ Virginia Governor Candidate Terry McAuliffe Hires Clinton Lawyer Mark Elias, Likely to Organize and Defend Ballot Harvesting Operations. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/10/28/virginia-governor-candidate-terry-mcauliffe-hires-clinton-lawyer-mark-elias-likely-to-organize-and-defend-ballot-harvesting-operations/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Is this the new Deep State scary thing, or the new Critical Race Theory hog goblin? Sure seems like it Here is some real information https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_harvesting_(ballot_collection)_laws_by_state Quote Most states have laws permitting someone besides a voter to return the voter's mail ballot. These laws vary by state. Mail ballots take the form of absentee ballots and ballots cast in vote-by-mail states. Absentee voting, or voting that is done by mail before Election Day, is available in some form in all states. As of June 30, 2020, in 29 states and Washington, D.C, any citizen could cast an absentee ballot without an excuse, and 16 states required an excuse in order for a voter to cast an absentee ballot. In five states (Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, and Washington), every voter received a mail-in ballot by default. Mail ballots can generally be returned by being placed in the mail, placed in a designated drop box, or delivered in person to an election official's office. As of August 2020:[1][2] 24 states and D.C. permitted someone chosen by the voter to return mail ballots on their behalf in most cases 12 states specified who may return ballots (i.e., household members, caregivers, and/or family members) in most cases 1 state explicitly allowed only the voter to return their ballot 13 states did not specify whether someone may return another's ballot To learn which states fall into each category, see the map below. Nine states that allow someone chosen by the voter to return mail ballots have exceptions specifying who is not permitted to do so. Eleven states specify a maximum number of voters for whom a person can return ballots or a maximum number of ballots they may return. And in seven states and D.C., only voters meeting certain criteria may have their ballots returned by someone else. See below for a list of states arranged by type of restriction. See the state-by-state details section below to learn more about your state's mail ballot laws. Whether states should place restrictions on who may return mail ballots is the subject of debate. Those who support restricting who may return mail ballots often refer to the practice of campaign and union workers returning ballots as ballot harvesting. Other terms used to reference this practice include ballot collection, community ballot collection, ballot gathering, third-party possession of another's ballot, and ballot return. Click here for more on support and opposition arguments. On 1/8/2022 at 1:07 PM, B-Man said: Of course, some people can't do either, and THOSE are the people mail-in ballots are for............................NOT "convenience" You are in favor of making people wait long periods of time to vote? Especially in cities. Trying to shave away votes at the margins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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