Not at the table Karlos Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 On 8/2/2021 at 1:50 PM, Sundancer said: I test drove the Y in May. I took a 20 minute test drive (they told me to drive to a place and back). I used the Autopilot (this had FSD) at every road it would allow. It was awesome. More cautious than I'd have been but to not have to engage that part of the brain really is relaxing. It's not fully autonomous but it's more like cruise control for the steering wheel. You have to be there to make sure if it screws up but really, it doesn't screw up. The ride is rough. If you're looking for a smooth ride, this isn't it. I have had and still have a sportier car so that doesn't bother me but in a car that is not performance, I hoped for a little more cradling. The interior is a matter of taste. I love it. Others want more stuff. I mean, man, the thing is minimal. I like the exterior. I would like the Model 3 more if it had a hatch as I don't need more space but a hatch is really helpful for my life. The only thing holding me back (OK...price is holding me back too) is reliability. They suck donkey ***** on reliability. The Tesla-hypnotized never complain about it but if you go to any forum, or read Consumer Reports, the problems are legion. My wife has the electric Chevy Bolt. It's fantastic. Not as sexy as the Tesla but a really good and affordable under the radar EV car. Biggest downside: No fast charging network so you really can't use it for long trips. When that's fixed, the Mustang Mach-e, VW ID.4, and others become actual Tesla competitors. Theres no talking to them. They will staunchly defend Tesla no matter what. We've learned to just let them think what they want it's like trying arguing politics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 I'm on the fence here but will probably wait until there's a lot more superchargers. Friends of ours have some EV (Chevy one I think?) and they had gone to see family in Syracuse (they live in Rotterdam). The fast charger was broken at the rest stop so they had to use a slow one, and ended up camping out for 6 hours at a rest stop to get the last 50 miles home. Until they solve for that, i think I'll stick with ICE because I tend to do a lot of regional driving around and don't want to be held hostage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, dorquemada said: I'm on the fence here but will probably wait until there's a lot more superchargers… I have driven my car several times from central VA to WNY over the last 6 months including twice in the last month and have always found empty slots at different superchargers along the way. I usually charge with enough miles so if that supercharger was disabled (like you point out) I could make it to another. The recently added notification when suoercharging that an idle fee will be charged after completion will assist in keeping charging slots available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Superchargers are not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 On 8/11/2021 at 7:02 AM, Not at the table Karlos said: Theres no talking to them. They will staunchly defend Tesla no matter what. We've learned to just let them think what they want it's like trying arguing politics. Had some fun today in a Plaid. I take back everything I ever said about Tesla. You blink and you're doing double what most people think is fast and it feels like you're doing 40. The fastest car I've ever been in. The car we drove down in was something special and we forgot about that the second we felt the power of the Plaid pulling off the lot. The quality was much better than older Tesla's I've been in. Seems they've worked out a lot of kinks like others have said. Highly recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 https://nypost.com/2021/12/24/tesla-explodes-after-mechanics-charge-man-23k-for-new-battery/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Story about the Telsa Model X that went ice fishing in Vermont a few years back: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mystery-of-a-torched-tesla-on-a-frozen-lake-in-vermont-solved-168957.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCockSportif Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) My boss bought a Tesla Model S last year, and when my wife and I visited him in November, it was my first time in a Tesla. I've gotta tell you that in as much as I think that Elon Musk is psychotic, the S-3-X-Y branding of their vehicles is precious, and that the Tesla is that kind of status symbol that I usually have zero interest in, the car is ***** hot. Now my wife is saying that her next car is a Tesla, and I'm leaning towards either the F-150 electric or the Bronco. I'm a car guy. I've always been. My dad was an engineer with GM (Harrison) for 36 years, so we basically had nothing but GM cars, for better or for worse (generally for worse if you look at their output in the 1980s through most of the 90s). Once he retired, I branched out into other brands. As a bachelor, I had some neat rides (fast cars, trucks, etc), but as a married guy I'm pretty much in Toyota/Hybrid land at the moment, well, sprinkling in a few years of Jeep Cherokee (XJ model) or Wrangler here and there. Plus last year I sold my '75 MGB. But, yeah. Tesla. Mind blown. Edited December 25, 2021 by TheCockSportif 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 On 8/13/2021 at 3:07 PM, Mr Info said: I have driven my car several times from central VA to WNY over the last 6 months including twice in the last month and have always found empty slots at different superchargers along the way. I usually charge with enough miles so if that supercharger was disabled (like you point out) I could make it to another. The recently added notification when suoercharging that an idle fee will be charged after completion will assist in keeping charging slots available. How much does it cost for a super-charged "fill up"... Do you have to swine a card or is it free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: How much does it cost for a super-charged "fill up"... Do you have to swine a card or is it free? Some Tesla owners still have the free supercharge option but the last time I recall that perk was offered was 3-4 yrs ago. A credit card is kept in your account for Supercharger billing. The cost depends on supercharger connection time. It equates to a combustion engine gas fill up. If vehicle has low fuel/battery you may choose to fill/charge to full. But it also depends on how much distance you still need to travel. For example, if you had 30 miles left on battery and were 100 miles from home, you may just wait for 100 miles to be added to battery before departing the supercharger because you will re-charge when you get home. You can disconnect at any time. I have found the charge cost to be ~2/3 of what the fuel cost would be for the same distance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 On 12/25/2021 at 3:16 PM, Mr Info said: Some Tesla owners still have the free supercharge option but the last time I recall that perk was offered was 3-4 yrs ago. A credit card is kept in your account for Supercharger billing. The cost depends on supercharger connection time. It equates to a combustion engine gas fill up. If vehicle has low fuel/battery you may choose to fill/charge to full. But it also depends on how much distance you still need to travel. For example, if you had 30 miles left on battery and were 100 miles from home, you may just wait for 100 miles to be added to battery before departing the supercharger because you will re-charge when you get home. You can disconnect at any time. I have found the charge cost to be ~2/3 of what the fuel cost would be for the same distance. Thnx! Pretty interesting all the added wrinkles. I take it's cheaper to "fill up"... Charge at home. Anyway to charge for free... Even if slow, like say over the 8-12 hours you're @ work? I suppose that all changes when everyone starts jumping on the grid??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 49 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Thnx! Pretty interesting all the added wrinkles. I take it's cheaper to "fill up"... Charge at home. Anyway to charge for free... Even if slow, like say over the 8-12 hours you're @ work? I suppose that all changes when everyone starts jumping on the grid??? The cost to charge at home depends on your electric provider’s rates. Tesla provides a 20’ 110 V/15 amp connector (cannot use extension cords). That would be a Level 1 connection and provides ~5mi/hr. Businesses will usually supply Level 2 chargers (~25mi/hr). You can install a Level 2 charger in your garage for ~$600-$1k. I am fortunate to have 2 free Level 2 chargers within reasonable distance of our house. I will drive there, hook up, and walk home. Return 3-4 hrs later and drive home with another 100 miles. Repeat whenever necessary. I am not paying any $ for miles except for Supercharger stops on long trips. This convenience factored into my EV purchase. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) On 12/25/2021 at 3:41 PM, ExiledInIllinois said: How much does it cost for a super-charged "fill up"... Do you have to swine a card or is it free? Friend was charged about $16-$20 from pretty much empty. There's a card on file and they charge that. I will say that having to sit and charge your car for a half hour gets annoying. But there's in car entertainment. Edited December 27, 2021 by Not at the table Karlos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden*Wheels Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 I love Teslas. Thanks to the row of Tesla charging spots at the local Stop and Shop, there is always a nice parking spot close to the door for my Jeep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 35 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said: I love Teslas. Thanks to the row of Tesla charging spots at the local Stop and Shop, there is always a nice parking spot close to the door for my Jeep. I've always thought about pulling into one of the vehicle charging spots at the mall, open my hood, toss the end of the charging cable in there, then closing it, and go shopping. Make it look like I'm charging up my non hybrid car. Or there's this option... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden*Wheels Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 50 minutes ago, Just Jack said: I've always thought about pulling into one of the vehicle charging spots at the mall, open my hood, toss the end of the charging cable in there, then closing it, and go shopping. Make it look like I'm charging up my non hybrid car. Or there's this option... LMAO! I wouldn't do it honestly if there weren't 10 of the freakin things....and I've at most only seen TWO occupied at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 13 hours ago, Mr Info said: The cost to charge at home depends on your electric provider’s rates. Tesla provides a 20’ 110 V/15 amp connector (cannot use extension cords). That would be a Level 1 connection and provides ~5mi/hr. Businesses will usually supply Level 2 chargers (~25mi/hr). You can install a Level 2 charger in your garage for ~$600-$1k. I am fortunate to have 2 free Level 2 chargers within reasonable distance of our house. I will drive there, hook up, and walk home. Return 3-4 hrs later and drive home with another 100 miles. Repeat whenever necessary. I am not paying any $ for miles except for Supercharger stops on long trips. This convenience factored into my EV purchase. I had an electrician do it for $200. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCockSportif Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 25 minutes ago, Doc said: I had an electrician do it for $200. So true. Unfortunately, I think it would be probably $2k for us -- since we already have two boxes, which are both full, and would probably need a third one in the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 5 hours ago, TheCockSportif said: So true. Unfortunately, I think it would be probably $2k for us -- since we already have two boxes, which are both full, and would probably need a third one in the garage. I had to have mine installed on my oven circuit. I only charge after midnight, when we never cook, so it’s not a problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) On 12/24/2021 at 10:56 PM, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: https://nypost.com/2021/12/24/tesla-explodes-after-mechanics-charge-man-23k-for-new-battery/ Why would anyone buy a Tesla outside of it’s warranty range full knowing that batteries are the most expensive to replace. While most Teslas will last well over 100k miles as battery degradation on average is reliable, it’s still a big risk to buy an old model past warranty. Something isn’t adding up in the story. It says he bought it in 2013 (assuming new), and it was fine for the 1st 1,000 miles. Tesla S are warrantied 150k miles or 8 years. Sounds like he used the Tesla well up until this year and it fell past the 8 year warranty. If you are getting 150k miles on a car, that’s about average before things go downhill. Edited December 28, 2021 by IronMaidenBills 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 3 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said: Why would anyone buy a Tesla outside of it’s warranty range full knowing that batteries are the most expensive to replace. While most Tesla’s will last well over 100k miles as battery degradation on average is reliable, it’s still a big risk to buy an old model past warranty. Something isn’t adding up in the story. It says he bought it in 2013 (assuming new), and it was fine for the 1st 1,000 miles. Tesla’s are warrantied 150k miles or 8 years. Sounds like he used the Tesla well up until this year and it fell past the 8 year warranty. If you are getting 150k miles on a car, that’s about average before things go downhill. The owner is Finnish. All bets off. 150k is "service life" on most vehicles... But you can get many miles past that. Diesel motors will run for a million miles. Heck a timing CHAIN will get you 250k. The used market will be bruuuutal for these EVs. You'd have to have a hole in your head to get a used one. They simply won't go without proprietary parts? The best thing you can do for the environment is drive a traditional fuel powered vehicle to the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: The owner is Finnish. All bets off. 150k is "service life" on most vehicles... But you can get many miles past that. Diesel motors will run for a million miles. Heck a timing CHAIN will get you 250k. The used market will be bruuuutal for these EVs. You'd have to have a hole in your head to get a used one. They simply won't go without proprietary parts? The best thing you can do for the environment is drive a traditional fuel powered vehicle to the ground. Not necessarily. EVs, from cradle to grave still have a lower footprint, even if powered by coal generated electricity. This is due to the greater efficiencies of electric generation/transmission and electric motors. Lithium mining still polluted less than hydrofractured oil/gas. MIT and others have already make very good calculations on this. EVs are the cleanest, especially if they are powered by solar and renewables. Most of the batteries are able to be recycled and the majority of the metals are recoverable. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said: Not necessarily. EVs, from cradle to grave still have a lower footprint, even if powered by coal generated electricity. This is due to the greater efficiencies of electric generation/transmission and electric motors. Lithium mining still polluted less than hydrofractured oil/gas. MIT and others have already make very good calculations on this. EVs are the cleanest, especially if they are powered by solar and renewables. Most of the batteries are able to be recycled and the majority of the metals are recoverable. The human suffering in Li mining? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Just now, ExiledInIllinois said: The human suffering in Li mining? Most of lithium mining is surface mining. Usually desert salt flats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Enjoy your human tragedy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/congo-cobalt-mining-for-lithium-ion-battery/ 😉 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Just now, ExiledInIllinois said: Enjoy your human tragedy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/congo-cobalt-mining-for-lithium-ion-battery/ 😉 😜 Elon has already stated he wants to transition away from cobalt used in the cathode. At the very least away from Congo cobalt. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/9/22/21451670/tesla-cobalt-free-cathodes-mining-battery-nickel-ev-cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Not sure why people are against EVs anyways. Even if it wasn’t for the environmental side of things. There is only enough oil/gas for about 120 years given current rates of consumption around the world. Fossil fuels are not infinite. The costs of recovery are increasing due to deeper formations. All the easy oil and gas is gone. This country would be smart to transition to EVs ASAP, and keep the oil and gas that we do have left in strategic reserves. Because we are going to need it for future asphalt, plastics, etc as an emergency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Elon has already stated he wants to transition away from cobalt used in the cathode. At the very least away from Congo cobalt. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/9/22/21451670/tesla-cobalt-free-cathodes-mining-battery-nickel-ev-cost "Wants" to transition away vs. "Actually" transitions away. Will he pay back for the advance he got. Is that factored into the overall cost, human and environmental tragedy? 5 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Not sure why people are against EVs anyways. Even if it wasn’t for the environmental side of things. There is only enough oil/gas for about 120 years given current rates of consumption around the world. Fossil fuels are not infinite. The costs of recovery are increasing due to deeper formations. All the easy oil and gas is gone. This country would be smart to transition to EVs ASAP, and keep the oil and gas that we do have left in strategic reserves. Because we are going to need it for future asphalt, plastics, etc as an emergency. Not against it. Just doesn't make any sense. What am I gonna do with something I can't get rolling when it has 200k on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: "Wants" to transition away vs. "Actually" transitions away. Will he pay back for the advance he got. Is that factored into the overall cost, human and environmental tragedy? Not against it. Just doesn't make any sense. What am I gonna do with something I can't get rolling when it has 200k on it? Im not saying EVs are “super green” . Nothing is super green, however factoring in everything, EVs are technically the “cleanest” technology we have. I don’t think we have much of a choice, EVs are going to be the predominant form of transportation because it has to be. We need to save what oil/gas we have left for things that are not easy to replicate (asphalt, plastics, etc). I’ve worked in the gas industry I’ve also worked in the renewables industry. Energy is not free, there is some form of pollution with every type. What we do know is oil/gas reserves (both proven and TRR) have limits and the world’s consumption rates are not sustainable without new forms of energy. I’m sure nuclear will make a comeback, but they need to figure out how to process or dispose all that waste as well. Nobody wants another love canal. Edited December 28, 2021 by IronMaidenBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Nuclear fusion is potentially the key to humankind’s future. But we are likely at least another 30 years away from it even remotely coming online in any meaningful way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Im not saying EVs are “super green” . Nothing is super green, however factoring in everything, EVs are technically the “cleanest” technology we have. I don’t think we have much of a choice, EVs are going to be the predominant form of transportation because it has to be. We need to save what oil/gas we have left for things that are not easy to replicate (asphalt, plastics, etc). I’ve worked in the gas industry I’ve also worked in the renewables industry. Energy is not free, there is some form of pollution with every type. What we do know is oil/gas reserves (both proven and TRR) have limits and the world’s consumption rates are not sustainable without new forms of energy. I’m sure nuclear will make a comeback, back they need to figure out how to process all that waste as well. Nobody wants another love canal. Then we all need to consume less. But there are more Love Canals than at any other times in history... Just as there's more human slavery... We, US... That is the two of us speaking just don't see it right under our noses. I am hammering away on a phone... I just don't kid myself the world's a cleaner, better place. In fact, I am probably making it worse. The divide between the "Haves" and "Have Nots" is only getting greater... And tech ain't helping. The most important part for me in a vehicle purchase is that at the end or near the end of its service life I can get that vehicle rolling and doing work that's NOT cost prohibitive. THAT ability should be engineered into everything! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Then we all need to consume less. But there are more Love Canals than at any other times in history... Just as there's more human slavery... We, US... That is the two of us speaking just don't see it right under our noses. I am hammering away on a phone... I just don't kid myself the world's a cleaner, better place. In fact, I am probably making it worse. The divide between the "Haves" and "Have Nots" is only getting greater... And tech ain't helping. The most important part for me in a vehicle purchase is that at the end or near the end of its service life I can get that vehicle rolling and doing work that's NOT cost prohibitive. THAT ability should be engineered into everything! Consuming less isn’t promoted because it hurts how our economic system operates. Businesses need sales and they need a throw away society to perpetuate said sales. Nothing last anymore, refrigerators and many things used to last 30+ years. I fully understand I’m (we) all contribute to the problems. The problems won’t go away until we all sit down and try and find solutions. Nuclear fusion is a big step into helping things out. It’s the most efficient energy form and it’s cleaner than fission and can run on elements that we have hundreds of thousands of years worth of supplies. Things will change because they have to change. Necessity is the mother of all inventions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 I'd buy an EV in a heart beat if Guys like Musk would take it back, no questions asked, for a predetermined % paid directly to me in cash... Like a glass milk bottle in the old days.. Let me walk free with $$$ in my pocket to either invest in another one from same company or walk next door and buy from the competition... OR just stopping drinking milk all together. 😆 Final disposal should be tied right back to companies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: I'd buy an EV in a heart beat if Guys like Musk would take it back, no questions asked, for a predetermined % paid directly to me in cash... Like a glass milk bottle in the old days.. Let me walk free with $$$ in my pocket to either invest in another one from same company or walk next door and buy from the competition... OR just stopping drinking milk all together. 😆 Final disposal should be tied right back to companies. Companies are not doing enough in terms of externalities. They design a product and don’t care where it ends up. There is no “away” . Plastics ends up in bodies of water, pollution runoff via air or land. The problem is, even if you tax or regulate businesses, they will roll the costs onto the consumer. Our whole systems need critiquing, but that is frowned upon by a lot of people. Even saying things like consume less will get you labeled a commie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) Regarding Tesla batteries The new 4680 battery technology will not use cobalt (very expensive & child labor concerns in countries where mined). https://www.torquenews.com/15553/elon-musk-said-tesla-can-already-do-without-cobalt-its-batteries-and-it-true “…new design is 56 percent cheaper to produce and needs about half the real estate to generate the same power as a 74-kWh Model Y battery pack. Tesla says this will be the first million-mile battery, and estimates that it will retain 90 percent of its life after 4,000 charge/discharge cycles.“ This should result in cost reduction for EVs though that remains to be determined. Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Then we all need to consume less. We need a Thanos. Edited December 28, 2021 by Just Jack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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