Biden's Approval Ratings Crushing Anything Trump EVER Got

[Doc]

Dem over sampling. No other explanation. 

[Chef Jim]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

All of them.  I am a proponent of a flat tax for individuals and corporations.

Ok a flat tax on what?   Corporate profits?  You really think corporations don’t have ways to shelter profits.  

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Ok a flat tax on what?   Corporate profits?  You really think corporations don’t have ways to shelter profits.  

On gross income. 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

On gross income. 

Ummmmm.....seriously?  

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

Ummmmm.....seriously?  

Yes.  I’d rather have a flat tax of say 5-10% that is actually collected from people and businesses than the current rates, which we all know rich folks and corporations never pay.  When Amazon pays nothing in federal tax it’s absurd.  Warren Buffett agrees; I think his opinion is more meaningful.  I believe the trillions of dollars in debt we have is a threat to our country; we need to pay it down.
 

Big corporations and such would probably save money compared to the slew of accountants they pay right now to avoid paying.

[unbillievable]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

 I believe the trillions of dollars in debt we have is a threat to our country; we need to pay it down.

 

So when the left coast got a boost in revenue from legalization and tax hikes, why did their debt go up?

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

 

So when the left coast got a boost in revenue from legalization and tax hikes, why did their debt go up?

Because they spent poorly.  Debt went up under the last 2 Republican presidents as well.  Why do you insist on making everything a left vs. right issue?  Wake up.

[ALF]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

 

So when the left coast got a boost in revenue from legalization and tax hikes, why did their debt go up?

 

California has a staggering $75.7B budget surplus

 

SACRAMENTO — California expects a staggering $75.7 billion surplus despite a year of pandemic closures — an amount that surpasses most states' annual spending and prompted Gov. Gavin Newsom on Monday to propose sending cash back to residents as he faces a recall election.

 

California's coffers are bulging thanks to the high-flying Silicon Valley, surging stock market and a large share of professionals who were able to continue working remotely during Covid-19

 

https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/05/10/california-has-a-staggering-757b-budget-surplus-1381195

[unbillievable]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Because they spent poorly.  Debt went up under the last 2 Republican presidents as well.  Why do you insist on making everything a left vs. right issue?  Wake up.

 

Because whenever the Republicans spend money, the Democrats believe it's time to spend 10x as much and think its the same thing.

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

19 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Not a fan of the spending in general.  OK with infrastructure but needs to be pared back.  Needed to help bail out with the pandemic but that should have been targeted to small business and unemployed people.  I do think it’s time big corporations paid taxes but would prefer just a flat tax of around 10-15% with all loopholes removed.

 

When is either party going to actually tackle the deficit?

When they are forced to because the rest of the world has had enough of taking paper IOU's in exchange for providing real goods and services for American's to consume which results in the dollar losing its status as reserve and trade settlement currency.  its share is already eroding.  The dollar quickly plunges against other currencies, gold, crypto, hard assets like land, and we all suffer a serious decline in our standard of living with the exception of the wealthy that are already hedged for such an event.  Guys like Bill Gates who is the biggest private owner of farmland in the U.S.     

[Doc]

4 hours ago, ALF said:

 

California has a staggering $75.7B budget surplus

 

SACRAMENTO — California expects a staggering $75.7 billion surplus despite a year of pandemic closures — an amount that surpasses most states' annual spending and prompted Gov. Gavin Newsom on Monday to propose sending cash back to residents as he faces a recall election.

 

California's coffers are bulging thanks to the high-flying Silicon Valley, surging stock market and a large share of professionals who were able to continue working remotely during Covid-19

 

https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/05/10/california-has-a-staggering-757b-budget-surplus-1381195

Newsome massaging the numbers to help prevent his recall...

[SoCal Deek]

12 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes.  I’d rather have a flat tax of say 5-10% that is actually collected from people and businesses than the current rates, which we all know rich folks and corporations never pay.  When Amazon pays nothing in federal tax it’s absurd.  Warren Buffett agrees; I think his opinion is more meaningful.  I believe the trillions of dollars in debt we have is a threat to our country; we need to pay it down.
 

Big corporations and such would probably save money compared to the slew of accountants they pay right now to avoid paying.

I’m all for a flat tax. Once everyone has skin in the game, politicians should stop pitting one group against another in a selfish quest for votes. However, it’s a myth that ‘rich folks’ never pay. The vast majority of rich folks make their money from high wages just like I assume you do. Most of these rich folks give back more than half of everything they make in taxes. And...the Trojan horse of corporate tax harvesting is much the same. When a corporation makes a profit they distribute those profits via bonuses to their employees and shareholders, who then...you guessed it...pay taxes on that profit sharing. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Chef Jim]

12 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes.  I’d rather have a flat tax of say 5-10% that is actually collected from people and businesses than the current rates, which we all know rich folks and corporations never pay.  When Amazon pays nothing in federal tax it’s absurd.  Warren Buffett agrees; I think his opinion is more meaningful.  I believe the trillions of dollars in debt we have is a threat to our country; we need to pay it down.
 

Big corporations and such would probably save money compared to the slew of accountants they pay right now to avoid paying.

Let’s do some math shall we. 
 

Amazon’s Gross Income (net sales) 2020 - $382b. 10% of that is $38b.

 

Amazon’s Taxable Income in 2021 was $20b. 
 

So by your method they’d have no profit and actually a loss.  
 

Guess which expense is the easiest to reduce to increase profits?  That’s right.  Helloooooo more robots. 
 

You should run for office. You’ve thought this through as much as a politician has.  

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m all for a flat tax. Once everyone has skin in the game, politicians should stop pitting one group against another in a selfish quest for votes. However, it’s a myth that ‘rich folks’ never pay. The vast majority of rich folks make their money from high wages just like I assume you do. Most of these rich folks give back more than half of everything they make in taxes. And...the Trojan horse of corporate tax harvesting is much the same. When a corporation makes a profit they distribute those profits via bonuses to their employees and shareholders, who then...you guessed it...pay taxes on that profit sharing. 

I wouldn’t call myself rich but I do OK and I pay my share.  I just want to be sure the Jeff Bezos’s of the country do the same.

 

The debate everyone is afraid to have is what the actual role of the federal government should be.  Once you know that you then set the tax rates to pay for it. In the 50’s government needed to do a lot post-war and rates were high to reflect that.  This crap with wanting a lot of government spending but low taxes is ridiculous; it makes no mathematical sense.  Sign me up for much more limited government spending.

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Let’s do some math shall we. 
 

Amazon’s Gross Income (net sales) 2020 - $382b. 10% of that is $38b.

 

Amazon’s Taxable Income in 2021 was $20b. 
 

So by your method they’d have no profit and actually a loss.  
 

Guess which expense is the easiest to reduce to increase profits?  That’s right.  Helloooooo more robots. 
 

You should run for office. You’ve thought this through as much as a politician has.  

And in your model if we taxed net profits they’d finagle their books to show no profit.   Don’t be so naive.  

[ALF]

Yep it's not the tax rate but all the loop holes , Warren Buffett said so. 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And in your model if we taxed net profits they’d finagle their books to show no profit.   Don’t be so naive.  

How would they “finagle” their books?  

2 minutes ago, ALF said:

Yep it's not the tax rate but all the loop holes , Warren Buffett said so. 

What loopholes would you eliminate?

[oldmanfan]

15 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

How would they “finagle” their books?  

What loopholes would you eliminate?

I’ve already told you what I’d do.  Tax gross profits with no loopholes for deductions and such.  Quit being naive.

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I’ve already told you what I’d do.  Tax gross profits with no loopholes for deductions and such.  Quit being naive.

 

Cool!  So you have no response to my Amazon example?

 

Are you ready to pay more for goods by taxing gross profits?

 

Are you ready for large layoffs?

 

How about the mom and pop places that struggle to pay the bills of their business to begin with.  You want to carve 10% right off their top line?  

 

I'm not the one being naive here.  I'm being realistic.  

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

Cool!  So you have no response to my Amazon example?

 

Are you ready to pay more for goods by taxing gross profits?

 

Are you ready for large layoffs?

 

How about the mom and pop places that struggle to pay the bills of their business to begin with.  You want to carve 10% right off their top line?  

 

I'm not the one being naive here.  I'm being realistic.  

My answer to your Amazon example has been given.  My understanding is they paid zero.  That’s unacceptable.  And they have a group of accountants that would figure out ways to hide profits in your scheme and you know it.  The mom and pop places would have the knowledge of a fixed rate to budget off of. Or you set a minimum gross profit rate below which you are exempt.

 

There would not be large layoffs.  Not if you rip up all the IRS crap that exists and replace it with a fixed flat rate.  Maybe the rate is 5%.  Again, the true issue is the role of the federal government and taxes needed to support that.  
 

If your answer is to continue the current nonsense where big corporations pay nothing while our debt continues to rise that is no answer 

[Chef Jim]

11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

My answer to your Amazon example has been given.  My understanding is they paid zero.  That’s unacceptable.  And they have a group of accountants that would figure out ways to hide profits in your scheme and you know it.  The mom and pop places would have the knowledge of a fixed rate to budget off of. Or you set a minimum gross profit rate below which you are exempt.

 

There would not be large layoffs.  Not if you rip up all the IRS crap that exists and replace it with a fixed flat rate.  Maybe the rate is 5%.  Again, the true issue is the role of the federal government and taxes needed to support that.  
 

If your answer is to continue the current nonsense where big corporations pay nothing while our debt continues to rise that is no answer 

 

It's not the rate it's where on the P&L it's calculated.  

 

And mom and pops (and all corporations) are going to add to their top line to compensate for the top line tax you suggest.  So you propose a 5% or 10% top line tax be prepared for 5%-10% increase in the cost of goods sold.....inflation!   Then you go on to exempt certain gross profits from this top line tax?  So any company/business below that amount pays zero tax?  Please think about how this all works before you throw out suggestions. 

 

I have not said what is the best route.  You say they hide profits in "my scheme".  What scheme have I proposed?  No need to respond because I've proposed no "scheme".  What  I'm saying your suggestion of taxing gross receipts is not well thought out at all.