The Joe Biden Death Tally

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

16 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

I agree Biden would have hade a different approach, and it likely would have been much less politicized that Trump's. Mostly because of Trump's tendency to over  politicize everything, but partly because the bulk of the mainstream press tends to hate Trump (not without some good reason)

I am not sure our numbers would be all that much different, though, regardless of who is in office, short of a really prolonged shutdown.   It's pretty communicable.  Hell, I caught the damn thing on a 15 minute trip to the grocery store while wearing a mask and rubber gloves.  

 

Frankly, I think his rosy predictions were stupid as well, those press conferences were often ridiculous.   But at the end of the day I think a lot of folks needed to hear that everything is going to be alright. He certainly could have toned it back by about 75% though, but that's clearly not his style. 

 

But I'll never begrudge OWS, nor questionits motivations.  Without it we would be @#$%ed right now. 

Your comments on Trump’s delivery is a complaint shared by many people, including many of his supporters.  There were times it drove me crazy, including times when he was 100% on point on the hyper-political approach that many supposedly neutral mainstream media outlets took to coverage on his agenda.  
 

Still, there is adequate anecdotal evidence to know what Biden’s approach to pandemic management would have been.  
 

His initial concerns about appearing to target China with unreasonable xenophobic action likely would have seen continued unabated travel between the two countries.  Based on the scientific models, that likely would have contributed to the spread. 
 

His support and approval of mass gatherings, demonstrations and riots may well have resulted in more supporters and antagonizers taking to the streets and contributing to the spread of the virus that has killed so many.  
 

His refusal to apply common sense to the governors and political that support his agenda and implore them to speak out and apply the same firm approach to virus management—using emergency powers to compel non-believers to comply with mandatory lockdowns and shutdowns—would have sent the message that the virus could not be spread by activities that the scientists had already told us were dangerous. 
 

There is little doubt he would have applied the full weight and power of the presidency to delivering a message similar to what we saw in NY.  The bullet points would have been to comply with regulations, to hunker down and shelter in place, while support and approval for tens of thousands doing exactly the opposite would have continued.  We would have seen confusing choices like we see in NY, where folks coming from some states are treated like pariahs yet absolutely no effort to address potential spreaders from Ct, NJ and Mass was made.  
 

In short, it would have likely been the same confusing sh*t show that we had as people faced with loss of income and financial devastation v loss of life would watched the news and science shouted from the rooftops while masses were encouraged to do just the opposite.  
 

Politics is a huge part of this crisis, and the Dems are as guilty of that as anyone else. 

[SoCal Deek]

So last night I saw Kamala on TV criticizing the previous administration for what she claims was the lack of a federally controlled vaccine program. She clearly wants the federal government controlling everything. It’ll take her a few pay periods to learn that the federal government doesn’t have the personnel to handle such a huge health care task but I’m sure she’ll form a faceless committee to study it for a year or two, after which she’ll publish a 400 page report stating on page 399 that the State and Local health agencies need to be the ones actually putting needles in people’s arms. Thanks Kamala ...BRILLIANT! 

[Doc]

4 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Your comments on Trump’s delivery is a complaint shared by many people, including many of his supporters.  There were times it drove me crazy, including times when he was 100% on point on the hyper-political approach that many supposedly neutral mainstream media outlets took to coverage on his agenda.  
 

Still, there is adequate anecdotal evidence to know what Biden’s approach to pandemic management would have been.  
 

His initial concerns about appearing to target China with unreasonable xenophobic action likely would have seen continued unabated travel between the two countries.  Based on the scientific models, that likely would have contributed to the spread. 
 

His support and approval of mass gatherings, demonstrations and riots may well have resulted in more supporters and antagonizers taking to the streets and contributing to the spread of the virus that has killed so many.  
 

His refusal to apply common sense to the governors and political that support his agenda and implore them to speak out and apply the same firm approach to virus management—using emergency powers to compel non-believers to comply with mandatory lockdowns and shutdowns—would have sent the message that the virus could not be spread by activities that the scientists had already told us were dangerous. 
 

There is little doubt he would have applied the full weight and power of the presidency to delivering a message similar to what we saw in NY.  The bullet points would have been to comply with regulations, to hunker down and shelter in place, while support and approval for tens of thousands doing exactly the opposite would have continued.  We would have seen confusing choices like we see in NY, where folks coming from some states are treated like pariahs yet absolutely no effort to address potential spreaders from Ct, NJ and Mass was made.  
 

In short, it would have likely been the same confusing sh*t show that we had as people faced with loss of income and financial devastation v loss of life would watched the news and science shouted from the rooftops while masses were encouraged to do just the opposite.  
 

Politics is a huge part of this crisis, and the Dems are as guilty of that as anyone else. 

 

This.  And PPE would still have been lacking, leading Fauci to again have to lie about masks, creating confusion and skepticism and the devastation that followed.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

This.  And PPE would still have been lacking, leading Fauci to again have to lie about masks, creating confusion and skepticism and the devastation that followed.

Absolutely---and likely, the typical government slow-walk would have occurred with respect to testing and vaccine development, with multiple redundant fingers in the pie and Joe outsourcing the presidential power to ruffle some private industry feathers to a government lifer.   

 

 

 

[TH3]

4 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Your comments on Trump’s delivery is a complaint shared by many people, including many of his supporters.  There were times it drove me crazy, including times when he was 100% on point on the hyper-political approach that many supposedly neutral mainstream media outlets took to coverage on his agenda.  
 

Still, there is adequate anecdotal evidence to know what Biden’s approach to pandemic management would have been.  
 

His initial concerns about appearing to target China with unreasonable xenophobic action likely would have seen continued unabated travel between the two countries.  Based on the scientific models, that likely would have contributed to the spread. 
 

His support and approval of mass gatherings, demonstrations and riots may well have resulted in more supporters and antagonizers taking to the streets and contributing to the spread of the virus that has killed so many.  
 

His refusal to apply common sense to the governors and political that support his agenda and implore them to speak out and apply the same firm approach to virus management—using emergency powers to compel non-believers to comply with mandatory lockdowns and shutdowns—would have sent the message that the virus could not be spread by activities that the scientists had already told us were dangerous. 
 

There is little doubt he would have applied the full weight and power of the presidency to delivering a message similar to what we saw in NY.  The bullet points would have been to comply with regulations, to hunker down and shelter in place, while support and approval for tens of thousands doing exactly the opposite would have continued.  We would have seen confusing choices like we see in NY, where folks coming from some states are treated like pariahs yet absolutely no effort to address potential spreaders from Ct, NJ and Mass was made.  
 

In short, it would have likely been the same confusing sh*t show that we had as people faced with loss of income and financial devastation v loss of life would watched the news and science shouted from the rooftops while masses were encouraged to do just the opposite.  
 

Politics is a huge part of this crisis, and the Dems are as guilty of that as anyone else. 

when you type this stuff...do you actually believe it? 

[TH3]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

So last night I saw Kamala on TV criticizing the previous administration for what she claims was the lack of a federally controlled vaccine program. She clearly wants the federal government controlling everything. It’ll take her a few pay periods to learn that the federal government doesn’t have the personnel to handle such a huge health care task but I’m sure she’ll form a faceless committee to study it for a year or two, after which she’ll publish a 400 page report stating on page 399 that the State and Local health agencies need to be the ones actually putting needles in people’s arms. Thanks Kamala ...BRILLIANT! 

Well - she is correct - 45 admin had zero plan or guidance or heads up on a vaccine program. Some people think...in the event of an international pandemic, the federal government should be an asset in such an occasion. 

 

The rest of your post is just conjecture .

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

46 minutes ago, TH3 said:

when you type this stuff...do you actually believe it? 

100% comrade. I just look to the past to project what was likely to happen.  
 

But you stay in that Protests-are-kryptonite bubble and eat your puddin. 

[SoCal Deek]

42 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Well - she is correct - 45 admin had zero plan or guidance or heads up on a vaccine program. Some people think...in the event of an international pandemic, the federal government should be an asset in such an occasion. 

 

The rest of your post is just conjecture .

Wrong!  About four months ago, one of the Trump administration's top people was on the biggest talk show on Los Angeles radio, and he explained their entire distribution network, even before we all knew about the vaccine.  The fact that Kamala wants to come out now and claim they didn't have this all in place is just nonsense....and she knows it.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Wrong!  About four months ago, one of the Trump administration's top people was on the biggest talk show on Los Angeles radio, and he explained their entire distribution network, even before we all knew about the vaccine.  The fact that Kamala wants to come out now and claim they didn't have this all in place is just nonsense....and she knows it.

Of course.  But they throw the chum in the water for a Th3 to get em roiled up. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Wrong!  About four months ago, one of the Trump administration's top people was on the biggest talk show on Los Angeles radio, and he explained their entire distribution network, even before we all knew about the vaccine.  The fact that Kamala wants to come out now and claim they didn't have this all in place is just nonsense....and she knows it.

 

Come now, Kammy is so trustworthy.  Remember the good ol' days when she said she wouldn't trust the vaccines...

[transplantbillsfan]

Covid deaths typically lag infection anywhere between 2-8 weeks.  Most of the deaths we've seen from Covid over Biden's first month in office are the result of people who were infected while Trump was still in office.

 

Notice that infections and hospitalizations are going down now.

 

If you want to play this incredibly sick and twisted game, wait a couple more weeks.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Wrong!  About four months ago, one of the Trump administration's top people was on the biggest talk show on Los Angeles radio, and he explained their entire distribution network, even before we all knew about the vaccine.  The fact that Kamala wants to come out now and claim they didn't have this all in place is just nonsense....and she knows it.

 

Even the almighty Fauci corrected a reporter saying “we’re not starting from scratch” regarding vaccine program. 
 

other than not saying and tweeting dumb moronic things which we know was commonplace, I’m not sure what people even expect the fed to do to prevent infection. Biden mandated masks the only place he can, federal property. The travel bans look similar to the prior admin and lock downs imposed by the fed wouldn’t hold up, in fact Coumo and Hogan both asserted like a year ago that a federally imposed lockdown would be taken to court and unconstitutional... so that’s a state a county call. 
 

as far as testing, we’ve now had 330 million tests, more that any country in the world by 50%. 

 

after that the extent of the feds power was I guess accelerating vaccines through regulatory agency, and finding someway to get more ventilators.. which happened for the most part albeit slowly and the of course there are cdc guidelines which are not enforceable but they seemed to be incoherent along the way, probably for political reasons... remember first it was no mask, then cloth mask, then n95 mask, now double mask. 

I keep looking for this inspiring grand plan to combat covid from the new guy wondering what else they could even do... but it looks like the old one without the accompanying nonsensical noise factory pretty much. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, TH3 said:

Well - she is correct - 45 admin had zero plan or guidance or heads up on a vaccine program. Some people think...in the event of an international pandemic, the federal government should be an asset in such an occasion. 

 

The rest of your post is just conjecture .

 

Yet somehow they were able to give 900,000+ vaccines per day. I also remember when the govt. signed a deal for Walgreens and Rite Aid to do vaccines in nursing homes.  She may not like the plan and that's OK. But to say 45 admin had zero plan in disingenuous at best.

[WideNine]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Even the almighty Fauci corrected a reporter saying “we’re not starting from scratch” regarding vaccine program. 
 

other than saying and tweet dumb moronic things which we know was commonly, I’m not sure what people even expect the fed to do to prevent infection. Biden mandated masks the only place he can, federal property. The travel bans look similar to the prior admin and lock downs imposed by the fed wouldn’t hold up, in fact Coumo and Hogan both asserted like a year ago that a federally imposed lockdown would be taken to court and unconstitutional... so that’s a state a county call. 
 

as far as testing, we’ve now had 330 million tests, more that any country in the world by 50%. 

 

after that the extent of the feds power was I guess accelerating vaccines through regulatory agency, and finding someway to get more ventilators.. which happened for the most part albeit slowly and the of course there are cdc guidelines which are not enforceable but they seemed to be incoherent along the way, probably for political reasons... remember first it was no mask, then cloth mask, then n95 mask, now double mask. 

I keep looking for this inspiring grand plan to combat covid from the new guy wondering what else they could even do... but it looks like the old one without the accompanying nonsensical noise factory pretty much. 

 

Can't argue with much of the CDC guidance evolving early on as more information about Covid-19 was being discovered. New more transmissible variants may change the game and protocols even more if we do not get a handle on our current rates of exposure and vaccinations. Even now the guidance is evolving about how infectious one can be AFTER getting the vaccines.

 

No one has all the answers to something like this up front, the best a government can do is to be transparent with the information they have and be honest about what they don't know for certain, and that more information will be forthcoming as they learn more.

 

I don't think the CDC or Fauci ever recommended "no masks", but Fauci early on did recommend cloth masks in the face of shortages of N-95 masks for front-line medical workers. The concern was that joe-citizen would hoard N-95 masks needed for medical professionals and the supply just was not there for the demand.

 

As for the 2-mask recommendation it is just that 2 masks offer twice the filtering so they naturally stop more particulates, but I think that the biggest issue is likely just folks improperly wearing N-95 or equivalent masks and leaving gaps or wearing them as chin-diapers which defeat the purpose.

 

Having worked in a medical facility with clean rooms I know 1st hand how difficult it is for someone with no training to wear equipment designed to prevent contamination. I was herded out of a clean room at least twice when I thought I could wing it; Then admonished and banned till I took training (that I figured I could skip) before having a supervised lesson on how to gown up (bunny-up in their white suite), disposable slippers over our shoes, masks, gloves, then disinfect the gloves, and then walk over a sticky mat before getting into the room where that company made equipment that went into the human body.

 

It was a pain, but Americans are just being asked to properly wear masks and the N-95 and better masks are now readily available.

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Can't argue with much of the CDC guidance evolving early on as more information about Covid-19 was being discovered. New more transmissible variants may change the game and protocols even more if we do not get a handle on our current rates of exposure and vaccinations. Even now the guidance is evolving about how infectious one can be AFTER getting the vaccines.

 

No one has all the answers to something like this up front, the best a government can do is to be transparent with the information they have and be honest about what they don't know for certain, and that more information will be forthcoming as they learn more.

 

I don't think the CDC or Fauci ever recommended "no masks", but Fauci early on did recommend cloth masks in the face of shortages of N-95 masks for front-line medical workers. The concern was that joe-citizen would hoard N-95 masks needed for medical professionals and the supply just was not there for the demand.

 

As for the 2-mask recommendation it is just that 2 masks offer twice the filtering so they naturally stop more particulates, but I think that the biggest issue is likely just folks improperly wearing N-95 or equivalent masks and leaving gaps or wearing them as chin-diapers which defeat the purpose.

 

Having worked in a medical facility with clean rooms I know 1st hand how difficult it is for someone with no training to wear equipment designed to prevent contamination. I was herded out of a clean room at least twice when I thought I could wing it; Then admonished and banned till I took training (that I figured I could skip) before having a supervised lesson on how to gown up (bunny-up in their white suite), disposable slippers over our shoes, masks, gloves, then disinfect the gloves, and then walk over a sticky mat before getting into the room where that company made equipment that went into the human body.

 

It was a pain, but Americans are just being asked to properly wear masks and the N-95 and better masks are now readily available.

 

 

 

Nice write up thanks for taking the time to clarify and educate here Wide... 

[WideNine]

44 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Nice write up thanks for taking the time to clarify and educate here Wide... 

 

Thanks for the props.

 

The world as a whole has got to get more prepared to combat pandemics. With global travel and supply chains it is the new norm.

 

These things no longer just wipe out a remote village somewhere, they can travel.

 

We have seen how Chinese politics failed with containment of the virus, and how politics got in the way of combating the virus here at home.

 

We have to do better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Fauci did in fact recommend no masks early on, he also said Americans had nothing to be concerned about with Covid...but why take him at his word when it’s easier to get all your news syphoned thru the left wing media machine! 

[WideNine]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Fauci did in fact recommend no masks early on, he also said Americans had nothing to be concerned about with Covid...but why take him at his word when it’s easier to get all your news syphoned thru the left wing media machine! 

 

Pretty sure you can do without the political rhetoric about media machines or distortions...

 

As stated, the guidance around preventative measures for Covid-19 evolved as more information about how the virus could and was being transmitted became available.

 

In March what Fauci said was no masks along with the comment that folks should not be walking around during a pandemic in the first place.

 

"Right now, in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks," Fauci said during the interview. "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask."

 

He continued, "When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is."

 

This was in March when most states and workplaces were trying to enforce the shelter at home guidance and domestic travel restrictions were in place.

 

On April 3rd the CDC changed its guidance requiring facial coverings while in public and social distancing, he mirrored those recommendations.

 

As we said evolving protocols, but even that example you politicized was just a nuanced change of guidance that happened over the course of one month early on in this pandemic.

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

45 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Pretty sure you can do without the political rhetoric about media machines or distortions...

 

As stated, the guidance around preventative measures for Covid-19 evolved as more information about how the virus could and was being transmitted became available.

 

In March what Fauci said was no masks along with the comment that folks should not be walking around during a pandemic in the first place.

 

"Right now, in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks," Fauci said during the interview. "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask."

 

He continued, "When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is."

 

This was in March when most states and workplaces were trying to enforce the shelter at home guidance and domestic travel restrictions were in place.

 

On April 3rd the CDC changed its guidance requiring facial coverings while in public and social distancing, he mirrored those recommendations.

 

As we said evolving protocols, but even that example you politicized was just a nuanced change of guidance that happened over the course of one month early on in this pandemic.

 

 

 

 

I wasn't trying to be overly political....but rather trying to clarify that Dr F has been all over the map on this thing from the beginning. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Now, I take everything he says with a huge grain of salt. He's trained me to know that tomorrow he'll be saying something completely different.  Since coming into the spotlight he's learned, like so many of us that have actual professional liability for our actions and words, that it's not as easy as it looks....so now he figures 'what the heck, I'm better off being overly cautious since there are no negative ramifications to me in my non-liable government job'.

[WideNine]

14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I wasn't trying to be overly political....but rather trying to clarify that Dr F has been all over the map on this thing from the beginning. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Now, I take everything he says with a huge grain of salt. He's trained me to know that tomorrow he'll be saying something completely different.  Since coming into the spotlight he's learned, like so many of us that have actual professional liability for our actions and words, that it's not as easy as it looks....so now he figures 'what the heck, I'm better off being overly cautious since there are no negative ramifications to me in my non-liable government job'.

 

 

All over the map is an exaggeration. The guidance changes from Fauci were minimal and in lockstep with  best practice protocols as they evolved.

 

Fauci is a world-renowned physician-scientist and immunologist. He is not a politician, he is not running for office, and likely has enough bank to live on.

 

He has served at the behest of Presidential administrations from Reagan up to Trump, democrat and republican with distinction for 50 years. 

 

Trump was the first to demonize and politicize the man because he dared to contradict Trump's kindergarten-level medical knowledge and dangerous advice that was politically motivated.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

12 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

 

All over the map is an exaggeration. The guidance changes from Fauci were minimal and in lockstep with  best practice protocols as they evolved.

 

Fauci is a world-renowned physician-scientist and immunologist. He is not a politician, he is not running for office, and likely has enough bank to live on.

 

He has served at the behest of Presidential administrations from Reagan up to Trump, democrat and republican with distinction for 50 years. 

 

Trump was the first to demonize and politicize the man because he dared to contradict Trump's kindergarten-level medical knowledge and dangerous advice that was politically motivated.

 

 

The only unelected Washington staffers who last as long as Dr F are people who make no waves, and are essentially invisible. As to being pretty sure he has enough to live on, he better, it’s been reported that he’s the highest paid federal employee at over $400k per year and at 80 I’m sure he’ll be just fine. And finally as to Trump demonizing him, I’d disagree. While the media wanted to stir up a rift between the two (in order to score points against the President) Trump refused to take the bait and repeatedly expressed his thanks to the good Doctor. 

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The only unelected Washington staffers who last as long as Dr F are people who make no waves, and are essentially invisible. As to being pretty sure he has enough to live on, he better, it’s been reported that he’s the highest paid federal employee at over $400k per year and at 80 I’m sure he’ll be just fine. And finally as to Trump demonizing him, I’d disagree. While the media wanted to stir up a rift between the two (in order to score points against the President) Trump refused to take the bait and repeatedly expressed his thanks to the good Doctor. 

 

And the career scientist known throughout the world, who is sought for his advice and guidance needs his federal paycheck?

 

He at 80 could easily sit back and rest on his laurels, or just take cushy speaking engagements, or figure out where to spend this latest award:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/16/world/fauci-is-awarded-a-1-million-prize-in-israel-including-for-speaking-truth-to-power.html

 

Expressed thanks whaaat???

 

Trump is notorious for talking out of both sides of his mouth. Mixing just enough praise to deflect from his efforts to undermine someone who has a high approval rating. This is so obvious.

 

Case in point where Trump blatantly tries to paint Fauci as a nice BUT incompetent old guy. This coming from the 74 year old who was pushing an unproven malaria drug and bleach.

 

"People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots — these people, these people that have gotten it wrong," Trump said. "Fauci’s a nice guy. He’s been here for 500 years. He called every one of them wrong. And he’s like this wonderful guy, a wonderful sage telling us how" to respond to the pandemic.

 

He retweeted #firefauci in April 2020.

 

"If I listened to him, we’d have 500,000 deaths," Trump continued,

 

The above comments which I interpret as Trump NOT listening to Fauci's advice, came during the same interview where he made repeated false statements about the election laying the groundwork for his insurrection followers...

 

Trump added that there's "a lot of cheating going on," claiming without evidence that Democrats will do so in order to defeat him.

 

"You know they'll be cheating like crazy because they always cheat," he said. "The only way we can lose this election is if they cheat. OK, that's the only way."

 

“Tony’s pitching arm is far more accurate than his prognostications. ‘No problem, no masks,’” Mr. Trump tweeted Tuesday morning, 

 

This was after Fauci wanted his campaign to remove an ad that used his words out of context to make it appear that he was praising Trump's administration handling of the pandemic.