Mark Vader Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 14 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: Completely false, but don't let my evidence disrupt your fantasy. America punishes and cripples the poor. Are you saying that it is impossible for people who work hard in this country to prosper in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Mark Vader said: Are you saying that it is impossible for people who work hard in this country to prosper in any way? Nope. You can take what i wrote literally - no subtext required. 57 minutes ago, bmur66 said: You will not find me in any stadium that has BLM billboards and I am not racist so don't go there. It really sucks that the Bills are finally where we have waited many years for them to be. Fans don't deserve this. We are not a racist country. This has all been created by very powerful players that want to destroy our country and President. I feel bad for players that just want to play football. I feel bad for owners who are misguided and think they are doing the right thing. I feel bad for the people that are too naïve to realize they are being used. So screw all the major sports. They are not important and they are about to find that out the hard way. There is much more at stake than a game And yes, I know this is not an airport and I don't need to announce my departure I bet they aren't. You guys have pushed this narrative before. You were wrong then and wrong now. Sports are more popular than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: Nope. You can take what i wrote literally - no subtext required. Very well. Are you willing to apply subtext? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Very well. Are you willing to apply subtext? Sure. America ranks 27th when it comes to a poor person's ability to improve their economic standing:https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/ Right behind Lithuania. Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 14 hours ago, Logic said: 3.) Antifa is not an organization. There is no leader, there are no meetings, there are no creeds. "Antifa" is a blanket term used to refer to people of leftist ideology who are against fascism and far-right hate groups. Applying a catch-all name to anyone who opposes fascism or far-right hate groups -- who, as mentioned above, have been responsible for 329 deaths in the past 25 years -- is nothing more than modern day McCarthyism. A convenient boogeyman used to scare people. Ya know, kind of like "migrant caravan". Oh, and calling the anti-fascists fascist is too stupid to really even spend much breath on, so I won't. If they are not an organization, how exactly do these people continue to converge in multiple areas in large numbers? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Mark Vader said: If they are not an organization, how exactly do these people continue to converge in multiple areas in large numbers? Do they? How many? How often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Sure. America ranks 27th when it comes to a poor person's ability to improve their economic standing:https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/ Right behind Lithuania. Alright. Do you believe that this country wants improve on that, or that it doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Mark Vader said: Alright. Do you believe that this country wants improve on that, or that it doesn't? I believe that people that share the same beliefs that I have want to. I believe that everyone that supports the current system does not. Why? The policies being put in place by republicans and the corporate democrats actively and passively subvert social mobility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just now, BullBuchanan said: Do they? How many? How often? I've encountered my share of these people whom have shown up in Berkeley and other parts of the Bay Area in large groups. I'm not saying that there are millions of them, but it's not just 5 people either. I've never personally interacted with any one of them, but I get the impression that they are not all that interested in talking to people who have differing viewpoints. That is just my guess. I've only seen them in person a couple of times, but I do know that they have been around parts of California on several occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: I've encountered my share of these people whom have shown up in Berkeley and other parts of the Bay Area in large groups. I'm not saying that there are millions of them, but it's not just 5 people either. I've never personally interacted with any one of them, but I get the impression that they are not all that interested in talking to people who have differing viewpoints. That is just my guess. I've only seen them in person a couple of times, but I do know that they have been around parts of California on several occasions. That sounds like pretty weak evidence to support a claim of continuing convergence in large numbers. How would you get that impression having never spoken to any of them? Describing Antifa is like describing 2A Supporters or Patriots. People of like mind gather to support a cause they care about. Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just now, BullBuchanan said: That sounds like pretty weak evidence to support a claim of continuing convergence in large numbers. I have no motive for lying. If you don't want to believe me, fine. I've seen them with my own eyes, and they are not exactly a very cheery bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: I have no motive for lying. If you don't want to believe me, fine. I've seen them with my own eyes, and they are not exactly a very cheery bunch. I'm not accusing you of lying. You asked me for evidence of my statements and I supplied actual data. I asked you for evidence of your statements and you said that you had seen some examples. Do you think that's fair? Do you think there's a small chance you might have some unintentional bias that makes you perceive things in a way that can't be supported by data? Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just now, BullBuchanan said: I'm not accusing you of lying. You asked me for evidence of my statements and I supplied actual data. I asked you for evidence of your statements and you said that you had seen some examples. Do you think that's fair? I have seen examples. I'm not a broadcast news journalist or television reporter, so I have no documentation or videos to show anything. I've just seen how some people with Antifa act and they were not pleasant. No one confronted me personally, because I wanted to avoid that. There were people who did get sprayed with pepper spray from the Antifa crowd and they also were throwing rocks at people. Once that started up, I got the Hell out of there. It's not worth bodily harm. All I have is my personal experience to share. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: I have seen examples. I'm not a broadcast news journalist or television reporter, so I have no documentation or videos to show anything. I've just seen how some people with Antifa act and they were not pleasant. No one confronted me personally, because I wanted to avoid that. There were people who did get sprayed with pepper spray from the Antifa crowd and they also were throwing rocks at people. Once that started up, I got the Hell out of there. It's not worth bodily harm. All I have is my personal experience to share. If I said that to you, would it change your mind? Do you think the actions of those people you witnessed represent everyone who is anti-fascist? Do you think it's impossible that some of the people you thought were Antifa supporters were actually some of the documented white supremacist groups attempting to legitimize them?https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/antifa-fake-twitter-account/index.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/22/technology/antifa-local-disinformation.html https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020/07/27/police-richmond-riots-instigated-by-white-supremacists-disguised-as-black-lives-matter/https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-umbrella-man-autozone-fire-hells-angels-policehttps://factcheck.afp.com/far-right-group-poses-antifa-during-george-floyd-protests Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brueggs Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, DCOrange said: I can't speak to the Soros part, but the bolded flat out isn't true (at least not yet). People like Candace Owens have been pushing that theory based on the fact that BLM uses a donations portal called ActBlue to collect donations. But she and many others have misconstrued what that actually means. When someone donates to the correct BLM group (there's another "organization" that's been created with a very similar name to try to get accidental donations), the donation passes through the ActBlue portal and is then distributed to BLM. ActBlue does the same thing for most Democratic political campaigns. If you donate to the Joe Biden campaign for example, the money goes to ActBlue and is then distributed to the Biden campaign. But people like Owens have been trying to lead people astray by saying that instead of BLM donations going through ActBlue to BLM, ActBlue is just taking that money and sending it to the Biden campaign or the DNC instead and that flat out isn't true. BLM, to this point, also has not donated any of the money they've received to the Biden campaign or DNC (though it wouldn't surprise me if that happens at some point since their goals at least partially align). And people like Owens know that they're peddling lies because there's literally an identical setup for Republican campaigns and right-leaning organizations called WinRed that does the same exact thing. If you donate to the Trump campaign, the money goes to WinRed and is then distributed to the Trump campaign. Likewise if you donate to a random candidate running for Congress in Utah or something like that. There's plenty of reasons to use to argue that you shouldn't donate to BLM, but the idea that donations to them simply get sent to Biden or the DNC is (at least for now), total BS. Fair enough. I know there is a sea of misinformation to sift through and the truth is buried deep when it comes to the kind of money involved. ActBlue is a Democrat Super PAC though, and people are questioning where the money is going. The irony is, while fighting institutional/system racism, why run money through the Dems? The institutions/systems where people gather information and ideas, are the Media, Academia, and Hollywood, all of which are monopolized by leftist elites. They literally control these institutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Brueggs said: Fair enough. I know there is a sea of misinformation to sift through and the truth is buried deep when it comes to the kind of money involved. ActBlue is a Democrat Super PAC though, and people are questioning where the money is going. The irony is, while fighting institutional/system racism, why run money through the Dems? The institutions/systems where people gather information and ideas, are the Media, Academia, and Hollywood, all of which are monopolized by leftist elites. They literally control these institutions. Who does? Who's a "leftist elite"? Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 14 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Made a conscious decision not to dip my toe in that hot lava—am I missing out? PPP in 2020. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: If I said that to you, would it change your mind? Would it change my mind? Maybe, maybe not. I would take it all under consideration and accept what was told to me as being truthful. Do you think the actions of those people you witnessed represent everyone who is anti-fascist? No, I do not. It would be unfair to lump every single person into the same category due to the actions of a few idiots. The same thing goes for people on all political sides. Not everyone who supports Bernie Sanders is a communist, they just think that his ideals are something that could work for the better of the country. Not everyone who voted for Donald Trump is a white supremacist, they just voted for him because they saw what he wanted for the country is the same things that they wanted. Do you think it's impossible that some of the people you thought were Antifa supporters were actually some of the documented white supremacist groups attempting to legitimize them? That is a possibility. Having said that, I do believe that there are some people in Antifa who are not part of a white supremacist group and only want to cause trouble and chaos in the country for whatever reasons they may have.https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/antifa-fake-twitter-account/index.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/22/technology/antifa-local-disinformation.html https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020/07/27/police-richmond-riots-instigated-by-white-supremacists-disguised-as-black-lives-matter/https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-umbrella-man-autozone-fire-hells-angels-police Edited July 30, 2020 by Mark Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: I think it's important for each of us to challenge the things we believe, the things we accept as facts. We often get new information and when we consider that new information, we can sometimes find that things aren't what we used to think they were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: I think it's important for each of us to challenge the things we believe, the things we accept as facts. We often get new information and when we consider that new information, we can sometimes find that things aren't what we used to think they were. I agree. Everyone should do that. We should also be more open to discussing matters that concern us that we tend to disagree on, but take it as an opportunity to learn from each other, instead of scorning each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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