If Trump loses and refuses to leave

[HappyDays]

Isn't the GOP concerned their base will be less enthusiastic to vote in future elections if they think their votes are meaningless? What is the point of voting if you honestly believe the other side is committing fraud that will make your vote worthless?

[shoshin]

2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

 

As for part one—yup, I agree. If the allegations are true, we’re in deep.  Btw, one other thing—i am struggling as to why a couple wealthy players on the team— Sidney Powell and Lin Wood, would wade so deep into serious accusations if they had absolutely nothing to go on. Both are quite wealthy, well-regraded and they aren’t shooting spitballs, they’re lobbing grenades at this issue with Dominion.   Again, just chatting here, given the concerns expressed by Elizabeth “Dances with Beers” Warren about major challenges with the program, I’m intrigued. 

 

 

 

Wood is not some objective attorney who regularly handles many other high profile matters. He is a conservative-activist. Representing conservative-interest clients in these cases is his bread and butter. It helps him greatly to be center stage in a case like this and if he doesn't need the $$, I'm sure he enjoys the spotlight.

 

I assume Powell, though nowhere close to being as pedigreed, is the same. 

 

It's more telling how many people are not near these cases. Giuliani is in charge, and if he's driving, it's not a limo, it's a clown car. 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Why is an orderly transition of power a myth???  When was there NOT an orderly transition from one presidential administration to another with the possible exception of when a sitting POTUS died suddenly in office until Trump got whipped in both the popular and electoral vote and cried foul without a shred of evidence?

 

 

Fair question.  My liberal friend on the West Coast, was lamenting the lack of civility just the other day (after attempting to deflect on the over the 4 years  of hostility towards DJT with the patented “I don’t want to talk about that!) and remarked how Obams had DJT to the WH for a meet and greet.  
 

I asked about the sudden expulsion of Russian diplomats on 12/29/2015,  7 weeks after the election and a mere 23 days before DJT was inaugurated.  He didn’t know so much about that, and didn’t have much to offer.  I see it as pretty simple, it was an action designed to cause chaos and international strife as the new President was settling in.  
 

I asked about the head of Obama’s FBI team attempting to destroy incoming National Security Adviser Michael Flynn in January 2017.  Again, my perspective is that Obama’s FBI was looking to create process crimes designed to create chaos and confusion for the incoming administration. 
 

 

I asked about the CIA Director Brennan briefing to Obama and his team where he advised that the Clinton campaign was closely tied to the story attempting to paint Trump as a Russian agent.

 

 https://news.yahoo.com/dni-releases-cia-documents-hillary-204337457.html

 

He wasn’t so sure on all those, but most def saw the photo op with Obama and Trump and drank deeply from the well.    
 

To me, the peaceful transition of power does not include these sorts of things.  In fact, I see it much more in line with Michael Corleone appearing to have a peaceful conversation with his rival before going to the bathroom and grabbing the gun hidden behind the toilet. 
 

Biden should be kept in the outside fir as long as possible, and if it comes to pass, with luck DJT has an December  surprise or two for him as well. 

[Warcodered]

40 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Isn't the GOP concerned their base will be less enthusiastic to vote in future elections if they think their votes are meaningless? What is the point of voting if you honestly believe the other side is committing fraud that will make your vote worthless?

They're walking a tightrope hoping to keep Trump from ***** things up for them down the line.

[shoshin]

4 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Fair question.  My liberal friend on the West Coast, was lamenting the lack of civility just the other day (after attempting to deflect on the over the 4 years  of hostility towards DJT with the patented “I don’t want to talk about that!) and remarked how Obams had DJT to the WH for a meet and greet.  
 

I asked about the sudden expulsion of Russian diplomats on 12/29/2015,  7 weeks after the election and a mere 23 days before DJT was inaugurated.  He didn’t know so much about that, and didn’t have much to offer.  I see it as pretty simple, it was an action designed to cause chaos and international strife as the new President was settling in.  
 

I asked about the head of Obama’s FBI team attempting to destroy incoming National Security Adviser Michael Flynn in January 2017.  Again, my perspective is that Obama’s FBI was looking to create process crimes designed to create chaos and confusion for the incoming administration. 
 

 

I asked about the CIA Director Brennan briefing to Obama and his team where he advised that the Clinton campaign was closely tied to the story attempting to paint Trump as a Russian agent.

 

 https://news.yahoo.com/dni-releases-cia-documents-hillary-204337457.html

 

He wasn’t so sure on all those, but most def saw the photo op with Obama and Trump and drank deeply from the well.    
 

To me, the peaceful transition of power does not include these sorts of things.  In fact, I see it much more in line with Michael Corleone appearing to have a peaceful conversation with his rival before going to the bathroom and grabbing the gun hidden behind the toilet. 
 

Biden should be kept in the outside fir as long as possible, and if it comes to pass, with luck DJT has an December  surprise or two for him as well. 

 

Lame duck session shenanigans is a far cry from what's going on here. 

 

If there's evidence, it should be moving courts to take drastic action. Today, November 19, Trump's lawyers said they don't yet have evidence and that their press conference was an "opening statement." This after going 1-29 so far in courts and backing down from alleging fraud in court any time they are pressed, but continuing to say it in the media. 

 

If that doesn't sound like a circus with Rudy as carnival barker and Trump as PT Barnum, I don't know what does. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

22 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Wood is not some objective attorney who regularly handles many other high profile matters. He is a conservative-activist. Representing conservative-interest clients in these cases is his bread and butter. It helps him greatly to be center stage in a case like this and if he doesn't need the $$, I'm sure he enjoys the spotlight.

 

I assume Powell, though nowhere close to being as pedigreed, is the same. 

 

It's more telling how many people are not near these cases. Giuliani is in charge, and if he's driving, it's not a limo, it's a clown car. 

 

 

Considered. Rejected as argumentative.  
 

Why are we spending time on “My dog is cooler than your dog!”? 

4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Lame duck session shenanigans is a far cry from what's going on here. 

 

If there's evidence, it should be moving courts to take drastic action. Today, November 19, Trump's lawyers said they don't yet have evidence and that their press conference was an "opening statement." This after going 1-29 so far in courts and backing down from alleging fraud in court any time they are pressed, but continuing to say it in the media. 

 

If that doesn't sound like a circus with Rudy as carnival barker and Trump as PT Barnum, I don't know what does. 

Lame duck shenanigans?   I say to you what I said to my friend.  Politically speaking, “Get the &$#@ outta here!”. 
 

I support it across the board.  You’ll be fine. 

[WideNine]

28 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Trump really needs to stop undermining the results of a Democratic election.  Its unprecedented

..

 

....

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure what planet this Sommers lady is from, but proof of Russian influence to sway the 2016 election is now a matter of public record. I know Tweets of denial and "witch hunt!" are less words and easier to consume, but just repeating over and over that something did not happen does not undo what actually happened.

 

The 5th and I think latest version of the Bi-Partisan Senate Intelligence Report regarding Russian interference and coordination with the Trump campaign in 2016. It is not for the faint of heart as it is 966 pages long - amazingly detailed for a "hoax" somehow produced by both sides of the Senate isle, but you can get the gist of it by reading the findings.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/politics/fifth-senate-russia-intel-report/index.html  this is the fastest link to download the Report itself.

 

Folks should take the time to read it and consider this is something rare that the GOP and Dems on the committee could both reluctantly agree to release while still containing a lot redacted material and many resources and their information hid behind the DOJ or Executive privilege or JDA (joint defense agreements - attorney client privilege). In this release they agreed to leave the partisan posturing and spin to conclusions regarding Trump himself to the end. Those are split down party lines, but at least if folks read the report itself they can draw their own conclusions.

 

There's some real gems in there too - like how the White House tried to claim executive privilege for most of Trump and his associates actions BEFORE he was president - a precedent of privilege for a President Elect in Transition put forward by then counsel Don McGahn - most felt this was a stretch. Trump Jr. and Kushner were both able to obstruct the investigation by hiding behind a JDA that claimed attorney client privilege. An example of our f'd up campaign finance structure after Citizens United that allows foreign money to be funneled into campaigns - Gates recalled that a Manafort-controlled Cypriot account, LOAV, contributed money to 501c(4) entity that supported the John McCain presidential campaign. Gates stated that the money was from Deripaska.

 

And some of this stuff you just can't make up. When it became clear that Manafort had several Russian connections and the news was going to be released: For instance, while Steve Bannon was the recipient of short messages of encouragement from Manafort and responded in kind, Bannon made clear internally that he thought further interactions with Manafort would negatively impact the Campaign. In response to Priebus forwarding Manafort's November 5, 2016 memorandum to him, Bannon responded, "We need to avoid manafort like he has a disease. Dems will say that the Russians are helping us win."

 

 

For my part I mirror Senator Wyden's position as I think he asks some really good questions about the committee process, arbitrary access to evidence and testimonies, and his mandate to follow the money.

 

In his own words:

"The way to compromise people is through money. Donald Trump, had he been an applicant for a national' security position in the U.S. government, would never have obtained even the lowest level security clearance. What's more, no review of his suitability for a clearance would have ignored his finances. It is therefore derelict that the Committee, having set out to conduct an investigation of counterintelligence threats and vulnerabilities, would have failed to scrutinize so much information that would be relevant to any application for a security clearance. This must be the last time that the Committee gives short shrift to this issue."

 

"On a matter of such urgency, one that implicates the national security of the United States and the defense of its democracy, this delay (Re: response to subpoena's for Trump financial records from Mazars) is unacceptable. Congress must therefore pursue additional means to obtain and release financial information, including S. 20, the Presidential Tax Return Bill, which codifies the long-standing practice of presidents and presidential candidates releasing their finances to the public. Congress should also pass legislation that would reveal foreign influence efforts behind financial transactions, such as S.1978, the Corporate Transparency Act, which prevents the use of anonymous shell companies for illicit activities".

 

 

 

Some excerpts:

 

COMMITTEE SENSITIVE - RUSSIA INVESTIGATION ONLY

 

(U) The Committee found that Manafort's presence on the Campaign and proximity to Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over, and acquire confidential information on, the Trump Campaign.

 

Taken as a whole, Manafort's highlevel access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik and associates of Oleg Deripaska, represented a grave counterintelligence threat.

 

Hack and Leak

 

(U) The Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the Russian effort to hack computer networks and accounts affiliated with the Democratic Party and leak information damaging to Hillary Clinton and her campaign for president. Moscow's intent was to harm the Clinton Campaign, tarnish an expected Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and undermine the U.S. democratic process. -WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian influen~ery likely knew it was assistin a Russian intelli ence influence effort. The Committee found si nificant indications tha At the time of the first WikiLeaks releases, the U.S. Government had not yet declared WikiLeaks a hostile organization and many treated itas a journalistic entity.

 

(U) While the GRU and WikiLeaks were releasing hacked documents, the Trump Campaign sought to maximize the impact of those leaks to aid Trump's electoral prospects. Staff on the Trump Campaign sought advance notice about WikiLeaks releases, created messaging strategies to promote and share the materials in anticipation of and following thdr release, and encouraged further leaks. The Trump Campaign publicly undermined the attribution of the hack-and-leak campaign to Russia and was indifferent to whether it and WikiLeaks were furthering a Russian election interference effort. The Committee found no evidence that Campaign officials received an authoritative government notification that the hack was perpetrated by the Russian government before October 7, 2016, when the ODNI and DHS issued a joint statement to that effect. However, the Campaign was aware of the extensive media reporting and other private sector attribution of the hack to Russian actors prior to that point.

 

(U) Trump and senior Campaign officials sought to obtain advance information about WikiLeaks's planned releases through Roger Stone. At their direction, Stone took action to gain inside knowledge for the Campaign and shared his purported knowledge directly with Trump and senior Campaign offictals on multiple occasions. Trump and the Campaign believed that Stone had inside information and expressed satisfaction that Stone's information suggested more releases would be forthcoming. The Committee could not reliably determine the extent.of authentic, non-public knowledge about WikiLeaks that Stone obtained and shared with the Campaign.

 

COMMITTEE SENSITIVE~ RUSSIA INVESTIGATION ONLY

 

The Agalarovs and the June 9, 2016 Trump Tower Meeting

 

(U) The Committee found that the connection between Trump and the Agalarovs began in 2013 with planning for the Miss Universe Moscow pageant. Aras Agalarov is a prominent oligarch in Russia, and his son, Emin Agalarov, is a musician and businessman in Moscow. The connection evolved in 2014 and focused on an effort to build a Trump Tower in Moscow that never came to fruition. During that time communications further extended to Agalarov associates and family members and to Trump associates and family members. The relationship with the Agalarovs, which continued through the 2016 U.S. election, included business and personal communications, in person meetings, and gifts.

 

(U) The Committee found that Aras Agalarov was personally involved in pushing for both the June 9, 2016 meeting between NataliaVeselnitskaya and senior m~mbers of the Campaign and for a second meeting following the election, also with Veselnitskaya, that did not take plac·e. Agalarov likely did this on behalf of individuals affiliated with the Russian government, judging from his ties with Russian officials who have pursued a repeal of the U.S. sanctions under the Magnitsky Act. · ·

 

(U) The Committee found evidence suggesting that it was the 'intent of the Campaign · participants in the June 9, 2016 meeting, particularly Dortald Trump Jr., to receive derogatory information that would be of benefit to the Campaign from a soui:ce known, at least by Trump Jr.,. to have connections to the Russian government. The Committee found no reliable evidence that information of benefit to the Campaign was transmitted at the meeting, or that then candidate Trump had foreknowledge of the meeting. Participants on both sides of the meeting were ultimately disappointed with how it transpired.

 

(U) The information that Natalia. Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer, offered during the June 9, 2016 meeting and planned to offer again at the follow up meeting requested by Aras . Agalarov was part of a broader influence operation targeting the United States that was coordinated, at least in part, with elements of the Russian government. That Russian effort was focused on U.S. sanctions against Russia under the Magnitsky Act. The Committee assesses that some of the same information used by Veselnitskaya at the June 9, 2016 meeting was also used in an influence operation earlier in 2016 by individuals in Moscow who have ties to Russian intelligence and to Putin. 

 

(U) The Committee assesses that at least two participants in the June 9, 2016 meeting, Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akhmetshin, have significant connections to the Russian government, including the Russian intelligence services. The connections the Committee uncovered, particularly regarding Veselnitskaya, were far more extensive and concerning than what had been publicly known, and neither Veselnitskaya nor Akhmetshin were forthcoming with the Committee regarding those connections. Both Veselnitskaya and Akhmetshin may have sought, in some cases, to obfuscate the true intent of their work in the United States

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shoshin]

37 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Considered. Rejected as argumentative.  
 

Why are we spending time on “My dog is cooler than your dog!”? 

 

You are trying to make the case that Trump has the support of many objective unbiased attorneys. He doesn't. 

 

37 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Lame duck shenanigans?   I say to you what I said to my friend.  Politically speaking, “Get the &$#@ outta here!”. 
 

I support it across the board.  You’ll be fine. 

 

I will always be fine. But it's a bad moment for our country to have our president throwing ***** at the walls. We can and hopefully will do better in the future than repeating the last 4 years tantrum for both parties. 

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Fair question.  My liberal friend on the West Coast, was lamenting the lack of civility just the other day (after attempting to deflect on the over the 4 years  of hostility towards DJT with the patented “I don’t want to talk about that!) and remarked how Obams had DJT to the WH for a meet and greet.  
 

I asked about the sudden expulsion of Russian diplomats on 12/29/2015,  7 weeks after the election and a mere 23 days before DJT was inaugurated.  He didn’t know so much about that, and didn’t have much to offer.  I see it as pretty simple, it was an action designed to cause chaos and international strife as the new President was settling in.  
 

I asked about the head of Obama’s FBI team attempting to destroy incoming National Security Adviser Michael Flynn in January 2017.  Again, my perspective is that Obama’s FBI was looking to create process crimes designed to create chaos and confusion for the incoming administration. 
 

 

I asked about the CIA Director Brennan briefing to Obama and his team where he advised that the Clinton campaign was closely tied to the story attempting to paint Trump as a Russian agent.

 

 https://news.yahoo.com/dni-releases-cia-documents-hillary-204337457.html

 

He wasn’t so sure on all those, but most def saw the photo op with Obama and Trump and drank deeply from the well.    
 

To me, the peaceful transition of power does not include these sorts of things.  In fact, I see it much more in line with Michael Corleone appearing to have a peaceful conversation with his rival before going to the bathroom and grabbing the gun hidden behind the toilet. 
 

Biden should be kept in the outside fir as long as possible, and if it comes to pass, with luck DJT has an December  surprise or two for him as well. 

 

You are talking about lame-duck actions taken by departing presidents which is totally unrelated to what is happening now: a sitting president openly attempting to change the results of an election that he or his party has clearly lost by significant margin of electoral votes.   Presidents signing last minute legislation or granting pardons on their last day in office has been common.  It was even more common prior to the change in the Inauguration Date from March to January.   There have been some disputed elections that wound up being decided in the House of Representatives, including 1800, 1824, and 1876.  There have been close elections like Kennedy-Nixon in 1960 and Bush-Gore in 2000.  There has NEVER been an election, however, where the sitting POTUS refused to accept the results of the election and attempted to change the election results by filing a myriad of frivolous lawsuits, by attempting to pressure state officials, or by essentially attempting to bribe local officials in some states to change those states' electoral votes in opposition to the popular vote in that state.   There has never been a sitting POTUS who has blatantly attempted to thwart the smooth transition from one US president to the next.  NEVER.

 

You, obviously, owe your allegiance to Donald Trump rather than to the United States of America when you can say/write a sentence like your last one.  IMO, that makes you and Covid Donnie traitors.

Edited November 20, 2020 by SoTier

[shoshin]

 

“We are a nation of laws, not Tweets.”

 

And press conferences. 

[Kemp]

19 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  You must have a voice driven computer.  That would be the only way you could respond when both your hands are over your eyes or ears.

 

Still no evidence.

 

Who needs evidence?

[Kemp]

 

The media that adores Trump. If only we could figure out a possible reason for this.

[ALF]

Trump can blame China and covid for losing and just leave it at that.

[shoshin]

Vote certification in 3 battleground states in days. 
 

Trump attorneys: We cannot show you evidence because this is our opening statement after going 1-30 in our previous cases. 
 

Even Tucker is calling BS (and this joining the Deep State). 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[TBBills]

7 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Vote certification in 3 battleground states in days. 
 

Trump attorneys: We cannot show you evidence because this is our opening statement after going 1-30 in our previous cases. 
 

Even Tucker is calling BS (and this joining the Deep State). 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Trump is now doing huge damage to the republican party.... Best part is he doesn't care.

[Niagara Bill]

I still think this all misdirection play. Mackenzie inside handoff running right with a throwback pass to Allen to come. 

Trump and behind scenes support has drawn up a play to lead to coup. The deep state exists on the right, that is where the power and money is. 

The big shoe has yet to drop.

[Q-baby!]

21 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I still think this all misdirection play. Mackenzie inside handoff running right with a throwback pass to Allen to come. 

Trump and behind scenes support has drawn up a play to lead to coup. The deep state exists on the right, that is where the power and money is. 

The big shoe has yet to drop.

Q? 

[Kemp]

2 hours ago, TBBills said:

Trump is now doing huge damage to the republican party.... Best part is he doesn't care.

 

If it was just the Republican Party I wouldn't care.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

You are talking about lame-duck actions taken by departing presidents which is totally unrelated to what is happening now: a sitting president openly attempting to change the results of an election that he or his party has clearly lost by significant margin of electoral votes.   Presidents signing last minute legislation or granting pardons on their last day in office has been common.  It was even more common prior to the change in the Inauguration Date from March to January.   There have been some disputed elections that wound up being decided in the House of Representatives, including 1800, 1824, and 1876.  There have been close elections like Kennedy-Nixon in 1960 and Bush-Gore in 2000.  There has NEVER been an election, however, where the sitting POTUS refused to accept the results of the election and attempted to change the election results by filing a myriad of frivolous lawsuits, by attempting to pressure state officials, or by essentially attempting to bribe local officials in some states to change those states' electoral votes in opposition to the popular vote in that state.   There has never been a sitting POTUS who has blatantly attempted to thwart the smooth transition from one US president to the next.  NEVER.

 

You, obviously, owe your allegiance to Donald Trump rather than to the United States of America when you can say/write a sentence like your last one.  IMO, that makes you and Covid Donnie traitors.

Settle down Pippy Longstocking.  You exposed yourself as a limited thinker a long time ago, and you’re not helping your case here.  
 

Pardons, last minute legislation and judicial appointments in the waning days of an admin are common, which makes the furor over SC Justice Amy Coney Barrett’s appointment all the more humorous.  Chuck Schumer was just complaining about the ongoing judicial appointments by Mitch McConnell as November/December roll on in partisan political fashion.  
 

I’ll ask you directly so as not to confuse you—the decision to push forward with ACB and other judicial appointments was correct especially in light of a looming Biden victory, yes?  
 

If I had an issue with that, I’d have included that so take a deep breath.  I’m not trying to trick you here. 
 

If you see the expulsions of Russian diplomats as an admin clears out, or the demonization of a presidential candidate as an agent of the KGB as late night tomfoolery,  I really do understand your vote for Joe. 

God bless you, Pippy. 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

10 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

You are trying to make the case that Trump has the support of many objective unbiased attorneys. He doesn't. 

 

 

I will always be fine. But it's a bad moment for our country to have our president throwing ***** at the walls. We can and hopefully will do better in the future than repeating the last 4 years tantrum for both parties. 

My God you people are such a morose bunch.   
 

President = Russian Agent.  Democracy at its finest.

 

President = Impeachment gambit, 

Democracy at its finest. 
 

SC Nominee = Serial Rapist as alleged by presumed VP elect.
Democracy at its finest, 

 

President lawfully challenges election = OMG how could this happen !! 
 

“Come on ladies, no crying in the breast milk!”

-Patches O’Houlihan (RIP)