Killed by police

[GG]

1 hour ago, GregPersons said:

 

Are you guys all drinking leaded water, or what's going on here? Reparations. Absolutely amazing the lengths White folks will go to try and feel oppressed. Just amazing.

 

Defund police. Abolish the institution. Restart with new civil servants. 

 

 

 

I discussed reparations in response to your post.  

 

Interesting that you are saying that everyone here wants the black community to come up with a solution, when any sensible suggestions have been shouted down for decades.  Because, shut up whitey. 

 

Note that you leave out important statistics out of your screed.  People are far more likely to encounter a violent confrontation with the police if they encounter police at higher frequency.   Let's bring up those stats as well. 

[GregPersons]

12 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Actually, I never said your opinion was unqualified. I have been very civil during this discussion and asked legitimate questions. 

 

But now that you bring it up, not having been a law enforcement officer is not what disqualifies your opinion. Your ignorance and your extremism is what disqualifies your opinion.

 

Personally, I think there are many changes that could be made in law enforcement and the communities they serve. There are problems on both sides that need reasonable voices to express and reasonable discussion to solve.

 

You are an extremist. Every post you have written vilifies law enforcement. You want to tear it all down because the entire system is racist and corrupt. 

 

You have absolutely no clue what law enforcement officers do in this country on a daily basis. To you, they are simply armed racists who kill black people.

 

Let me ask you this: When you villify a group of people based on the actions of a few, when you attribute motives and characteristics to an entire group, when you paint an entire group of people with the same brush stroke, aren't you the very thing you are railing against?

 

 

Well see your first paragraph made me feel like I was being too harsh in my readings, then your second one reminded me I was understanding your tone correctly. My ignorance and extremism, I'm curious for some specifics here. What is extreme in what we've discussed? What part of that scenario was too extreme for you? That the mediators didn't have guns, you could not possibly imagine a scenario without guns?

 

"Both sides." Who are the "sides"?  Is one of the sides... Black people? Is it that they need to stop listening to the music so loud and pull up their pants and say Sir Yes Sir? 

 

Also. My friend. You have absolutely no clue what law enforcement does on a daily basis, which you proved by coming into class with police statistics in a conversation about police brutality like that isn't the stupidest ***** white person cluelessness I've ever seen.

 

If you had a career in the police, by all means, now is the time to show me that proof if you want to have the advantage on this one. Otherwise I see no reason to assume that your perspective — clearly white, authoritarian, subservient, unimaginative, ignorant — is going to be more accurate. I suspect you have taken in most of your assumptions about what police do, like the majority of Americans, from the abundance of pro-police fiction. 

 

You're aware of how American police tactics largely evolved from Slave Catcher Patrols, right? 

https://lawenforcementmuseum.org/2019/07/10/slave-patrols-an-early-form-of-american-policing/

https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/

https://theconversation.com/the-racist-roots-of-american-policing-from-slave-patrols-to-traffic-stops-112816

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=116023

 

Can you see the connection? 

Do you think cause & effect are real, or imaginary?

 

Also I love your bolded, dramatic ending. What a long-winded way to say "blue lives matter."  This is not difficult, morally, provided you're not racist. It's quite clear. 

5 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I discussed reparations in response to your post.  

 

Interesting that you are saying that everyone here wants the black community to come up with a solution, when any sensible suggestions have been shouted down for decades.  Because, shut up whitey. 

 

Note that you leave out important statistics out of your screed.  People are far more likely to encounter a violent confrontation with the police if they encounter police at higher frequency.   Let's bring up those stats as well. 

 

I never brought up reparations, except to laugh in the face of a couple of posters who brought it up as their reason they can't support black people's protests. I'm not here to debate reparations with racists, that's just hilarious.

 

Also -- uh, what solutions were those? How do you guys do this thing, did you learn it from Trump or did he learn it from folks like y'all? Where you just make something up and then insist it's real.

 

 

[Needle]

GregPersons is the reason this "movement" is going to fizzle into nothing again. It's a white witch hunt that offers no solutions geared towards helping the black community. How many different forums is he running around calling strangers racist? The election will come and go, millennials will be onto the next look at me movement, and violence within the black community will be the same.

 

This the sad truth. 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Tibs this is where people think you are a troll- virtually no one says cops killing men is ok unless under extreme circumstances, but you are pretending that people say it is ok just for your argument.

I'm a troll for pointing out the difference in regular crime and those who commit crimes while using government authority? Please 

[3rdnlng]

@GregPersonsI picked up where I left off in this thread and it was actually just about the time you started posting in it. I normally don't respond in any substantial way until I have caught up to the present time. I had planned to respond to your posts but the more I read of your horseshit the less desire I had to get into it with you. Simply put, you are either a troll or just not right in the head and discussing anything with you is not worth my time. That determination has nothing to do with blackness, whiteness or anything in between. It's based solely on your ignorance.

[GregPersons]

1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said:

@GregPersonsI picked up where I left off in this thread and it was actually just about the time you started posting in it. I normally don't respond in any substantial way until I have caught up to the present time. I had planned to respond to your posts but the more I read of your horseshit the less desire I had to get into it with you. Simply put, you are either a troll or just not right in the head and discussing anything with you is not worth my time. That determination has nothing to do with blackness, whiteness or anything in between. It's based solely on your ignorance.

 

Hey it's all good. I've actually seen a few of your posts to already know you're dumb as a rock, like even on a board full of mid-double digit IQs, you're notably one of the stupider people posting on a regular basis here. You can one hundred percent eat ***** and choke on it, and that would be more productive than anything you've ever done. Cheers, mate!

[GG]

5 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

Also -- uh, what solutions were those? How do you guys do this thing, did you learn it from Trump or did he learn it from folks like y'all? Where you just make something up and then insist it's real.

 

5 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

 

It's a weak line of "reasoning" to focus on the aftermath and pretend that the solutions should only be focused there, and completely ignore why the encounter occurred in the first place. 

 

So go ahead and ignore the breakdown of the black families and education rates since the '70s and pretend that anything beyond that will achieve your goals. 

 

The solutions are rather simple.  Stay in school, go to church, get married.   Try that for a decade and then get back to me.  

 

[billsfan1959]

18 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

Well see your first paragraph made me feel like I was being too harsh in my readings, then your second one reminded me I was understanding your tone correctly. My ignorance and extremism, I'm curious for some specifics here. What is extreme in what we've discussed? What part of that scenario was too extreme for you? That the mediators didn't have guns, you could not possibly imagine a scenario without guns?

 

"Both sides." Who are the "sides"?  Is one of the sides... Black people? Is it that they need to stop listening to the music so loud and pull up their pants and say Sir Yes Sir? 

 

Also. My friend. You have absolutely no clue what law enforcement does on a daily basis, which you proved by coming into class with police statistics in a conversation about police brutality like that isn't the stupidest ***** white person cluelessness I've ever seen.

 

If you had a career in the police, by all means, now is the time to show me that proof if you want to have the advantage on this one. Otherwise I see no reason to assume that your perspective — clearly white, authoritarian, subservient, unimaginative, ignorant — is going to be more accurate. I suspect you have taken in most of your assumptions about what police do, like the majority of Americans, from the abundance of pro-police fiction. 

 

You're aware of how American police tactics largely evolved from Slave Catcher Patrols, right? 

https://lawenforcementmuseum.org/2019/07/10/slave-patrols-an-early-form-of-american-policing/

https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/

https://theconversation.com/the-racist-roots-of-american-policing-from-slave-patrols-to-traffic-stops-112816

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=116023

 

Can you see the connection? 

Do you think cause & effect are real, or imaginary?

 

Also I love your bolded, dramatic ending. What a long-winded way to say "blue lives matter."  This is not difficult, morally, provided you're not racist. It's quite clear. 

 

Not that I need to; however I will answer the bolded. 

 

I served an entire career as a law enforcement officer. I have been part of that community, and the greater community of criminal justice, for the past 35+ years. Almost my entire adult life. I have worked almost exclusively in the violent crime arena (still do in retirement as a consultant) and have been in many emotionally charged and potentially dangerous situations. I am well educated and have provided training to law enforcement officers, criminal justice professionals, and mental health professionals in the area of offender and victim characteristics/behaviors in violent crime, particularly homicide, sexual assault, and intimate partner violence.

 

Over the last 35+ years, I can tell you that there is no institution in this country that has made a greater effort in that time to eliminate what people refer to as "systemic racism" than law enforcement. I have seen bad LE Officers and personally investigated a few (each one convicted and sentenced). They have always existed and always will exist - as they do in every other segment of society. I have also seen racist LE Officers. But I have also seen them slowly and surely weeded out of the profession. Weeds are weeds, however, and it takes time and effort to completely eradicate them. Over the years, I have personally interacted with, literally, thousands of LE Officers. I have watched the profession evolve, for the better. As a group, they are men and women who take an oath to protect and serve, and the vast majority take that oath seriously and try to serve and protect every citizen out there, regardless of race.

 

I am open to new and innovative ways of policing. I recognize problems exist in law enforcement and I am also aware that problems exist in the communities they serve. As always, solutions to problems can never be arrived at without first accurately defining the problem. We have not arrived in a place in this country where those on both sides are willing to do that.

 

I am in the habit of engaing posters who are interested in civil, intellectually honest discussions.

 

You are intersted in neither.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by billsfan1959

[GregPersons]

1 minute ago, GG said:

It's a weak line of "reasoning" to focus on the aftermath and pretend that the solutions should only be focused there, and completely ignore why the encounter occurred in the first place. 

 

So go ahead and ignore the breakdown of the black families and education rates since the '70s and pretend that anything beyond that will achieve your goals. 

 

The solutions are rather simple.  Stay in school, go to church, get married.   Try that for a decade and then get back to me.  

 

OHHHHHHHH I almost forgot about this one. Y'all love this one. "Broken families" are the cause of.... black people being murdered by the police.

 

So, how come Trump with his broken family and garbage education isn't struggling right now?  Ah yes. He was born into wealth. How is that possible? Because of generations of white looting. How do we know that? Because it's basic ass history. America was built on the back of slaves. White people profited from work they did not perform. It's always been known. "Five acres and a mule" or whatever. But the thing about White Americans is they're dishonorable. How can we say that?  Only all of the group's collective actions throughout the country's history.

 

Racists are dumb as ***** and y'all only keep showing it!

[3rdnlng]

2 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

Hey it's all good. I've actually seen a few of your posts to already know you're dumb as a rock, like even on a board full of mid-double digit IQs, you're notably one of the stupider people posting on a regular basis here. You can one hundred percent eat ***** and choke on it, and that would be more productive than anything you've ever done. Cheers, mate!

I already made my determination, you didn't need to confirm it by responding in such a way. Why don't you be the first to volunteer as a mediator to break into a dwelling unarmed in order to stop violence with your magnetic personality and soothing words? 

[GregPersons]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Not that I need to; however I will answer the bolded. 

 

I served an entire career as a law enforcement officer. I have been part of that community, and the greater community of criminal justice, for the past 35+ years. Almost my entire adult life. I have worked almost exclusively in the violent crime arena (still do in retirement as a consultant) and have been in many emotionally charged and potentially dangerous situations. I am well educated and have provided training to law enforcement officers, criminal justice professionals, and mental health professionals in the area of offender and victim characteristics/behaviors in violent crime, particularly homicide, sexual assault, and intimate partner violence.

 

Over the last 35+ years, I can tell you that there is no institution in this country that has made a greater effort in that time to eliminate what people refer to as "systemic racism" than law enforcement. I have seen bad LE Officers and personally investigated a few (each one convicted and sentenced). They have always existed and always will exist - as they do in every other segment of society. I have also seen racist LE Officers. But I have also seen them slowly and surely weeded out of the profession. Weeds are weeds, however, and it takes time and effort to completely eradicate them. Over the years, I have personally interacted with, literally, thousands of LE Officers. I have watched the profession evolve, for the better. As a group, they are men and women who take an oath to protect and serve, and the vast majority take that oath seriously and try to serve and protect every citizen out there, regardless of race.

 

I am open to new and innovative ways of policing. I recognize problems exist in law enforcement and I am also aware that problems exist in the communities they serve. As always, solutions to problems can never be arrived at without first accurately defining the problem. We have not arrived in a place in this country where those on both sides are willing to do that.

 

I am in the habit of engaing posters who are interested in civil, intellectually honest discussions.

 

You have been neither.

 

You know that phrase "If you want respect, you need to show respect"? Or "If you want respect, you need to earn it"?

 

Had you started with this post, and being upfront and direct, this conversation would've been very different.  Instead you came in with loaded questions and attempts to "prove me wrong" instead of engaging honestly. And then, of course, your sly disingenuousness is somehow then blamed on me.

 

This is actually a wonderful little microcosm of the entire issue. You just couldn't respect me enough, up front, to play it straight. I answer all your dumbass questions and situations from the hip, assuming the best possible faith even with your snarky ass tone and responding in kind. And of course you're playing a game.

 

You don't get it. Obviously you don't. If you did, we would've started here. Instead, you assume this is the end. You assume this is you putting your cards down and winning. You're looking at this in a completely different way, and you're sure it's the right way.

 

We're only out here begging for our lives, but people instead pull this. "Yeah black lives might matter, maybe, but blue lives definitely matter and deserve more respect." 

 

***** off if that's your way, you dishonorable *****. 

2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I already made my determination, you didn't need to confirm it by responding in such a way. Why don't you be the first to volunteer as a mediator to break into a dwelling unarmed in order to stop violence with your magnetic personality and soothing words? 

 

You got it. What's your parents address?

[GG]

4 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

OHHHHHHHH I almost forgot about this one. Y'all love this one. "Broken families" are the cause of.... black people being murdered by the police.

 

So, how come Trump with his broken family and garbage education isn't struggling right now?  Ah yes. He was born into wealth. How is that possible? Because of generations of white looting. How do we know that? Because it's basic ass history. America was built on the back of slaves. White people profited from work they did not perform. It's always been known. "Five acres and a mule" or whatever. But the thing about White Americans is they're dishonorable. How can we say that?  Only all of the group's collective actions throughout the country's history.

 

Racists are dumb as ***** and y'all only keep showing it!

There's the expected shut up whitey post. 

 

Stop to read for a second.  Broken families are the reason for greater police encounters, and to ignore that is putting your head in the sand. 

 

What does Trump's family have to do with it?

 

But if you insist on that line of reasoning, the father stayed in the picture and was a big part of the kids' upbringing.   

3 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

.

 

We're only out here begging for our lives, but people instead pull this. "Yeah black lives might matter, maybe, but blue lives definitely matter and deserve more respect." 

 

 

Nobody has argued this in this forum   

[Reality Check]

7 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

You know that phrase "If you want respect, you need to show respect"? Or "If you want respect, you need to earn it"?

 

Had you started with this post, and being upfront and direct, this conversation would've been very different.  Instead you came in with loaded questions and attempts to "prove me wrong" instead of engaging honestly. And then, of course, your sly disingenuousness is somehow then blamed on me.

 

This is actually a wonderful little microcosm of the entire issue. You just couldn't respect me enough, up front, to play it straight. I answer all your dumbass questions and situations from the hip, assuming the best possible faith even with your snarky ass tone and responding in kind. And of course you're playing a game.

 

You don't get it. Obviously you don't. If you did, we would've started here. Instead, you assume this is the end. You assume this is you putting your cards down and winning. You're looking at this in a completely different way, and you're sure it's the right way.

 

We're only out here begging for our lives, but people instead pull this. "Yeah black lives might matter, maybe, but blue lives definitely matter and deserve more respect." 

 

***** off if that's your way, you dishonorable *****. 

 

You got it. What's your parents address?

What is your solution to black people killing black people?

[billsfan1959]

Just now, GregPersons said:

 

You know that phrase "If you want respect, you need to show respect"? Or "If you want respect, you need to earn it"?

 

Had you started with this post, and being upfront and direct, this conversation would've been very different.  Instead you came in with loaded questions and attempts to "prove me wrong" instead of engaging honestly. And then, of course, your sly disingenuousness is somehow then blamed on me.

 

This is actually a wonderful little microcosm of the entire issue. You just couldn't respect me enough, up front, to play it straight. I answer all your dumbass questions and situations from the hip, assuming the best possible faith even with your snarky ass tone and responding in kind. And of course you're playing a game.

 

You don't get it. Obviously you don't. If you did, we would've started here. Instead, you assume this is the end. You assume this is you putting your cards down and winning. You're looking at this in a completely different way, and you're sure it's the right way.

 

We're only out here begging for our lives, but people instead pull this. "Yeah black lives might matter, maybe, but blue lives definitely matter and deserve more respect." 

 

***** off if that's your way, you dishonorable *****. 

 

I engaged you an an entirely civil manner. I asked legitimate questions in response to posts that have extreme points of view. I have been very reasonable in everything I have said and taken a stance that both sides have their problems and need to come to the table in an honest way.

 

I didn't need to tell you or anyone else my background and history to post. You certainly didn't. It has no bearing on the legitimacy of the content of my posts. 

 

I agree with you on one thing. Our discussion is a microcosm of the entire issue. 

 

I will leave it up to the other posters on this board to determine which one of us was reasonable and civil and which one was not.

 

Take care.

[GregPersons]

Just now, GG said:

There's the expected shut up whitey post. 

 

Stop to read for a second.  Broken families are the reason for greater police encounters, and to ignore that is putting your head in the sand. 

 

What does Trump's family have to do with it?

 

But if you insist on that line of reasoning, the father stayed in the picture and was a big part of the kids' upbringing.   

 

No, I'm just saying this is (again) a white supremacist talking point. It again is a form of "Black people are uncivilized savages."  The racist idea that black people are these lecherous wild creatures who can't be understood. 

 

It also is a confused stance. Like all social things, yes, everything is connected. But your ignorant racist point is... what now? That black people deserve to be killed by police? Because they didn't have a father in the home? And none of this seems racist to you? Just seems like a good thought, worth sharing? You felt smart posting it? Felt like you were repeating a good point you'd heard elsewhere, did you?

 

And your position is... defund social services, not provide universal healthcare or child care, and then also increase the police? And this will help... how? I'm presuming you don't want to live in a world defined by racist structures, but I might be presuming wrong.

 

Actually, if nothing else, clarifying this one point would be helpful. Are you racist or not? Do Black Lives Matter or don't they? Start with this question and we'll see if we need to bother with any more of your nonsense. Say your beliefs like a ***** man. 

[3rdnlng]

6 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

You know that phrase "If you want respect, you need to show respect"? Or "If you want respect, you need to earn it"?

 

Had you started with this post, and being upfront and direct, this conversation would've been very different.  Instead you came in with loaded questions and attempts to "prove me wrong" instead of engaging honestly. And then, of course, your sly disingenuousness is somehow then blamed on me.

 

This is actually a wonderful little microcosm of the entire issue. You just couldn't respect me enough, up front, to play it straight. I answer all your dumbass questions and situations from the hip, assuming the best possible faith even with your snarky ass tone and responding in kind. And of course you're playing a game.

 

You don't get it. Obviously you don't. If you did, we would've started here. Instead, you assume this is the end. You assume this is you putting your cards down and winning. You're looking at this in a completely different way, and you're sure it's the right way.

 

We're only out here begging for our lives, but people instead pull this. "Yeah black lives might matter, maybe, but blue lives definitely matter and deserve more respect." 

 

***** off if that's your way, you dishonorable *****. 

 

You got it. What's your parents address?

Heaven, where they will be safe from you.

 

BTW, the black family started to fall apart around the same time as LBJ and The Great Society. That LBJ was quite prescient with his prediction of how black people would vote for the next 200 years. Whatever could have caused that? 

[Troll Toll]

2 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

You know that phrase "If you want respect, you need to show respect"? Or "If you want respect, you need to earn it"?

 

Had you started with this post, and being upfront and direct, this conversation would've been very different.  Instead you came in with loaded questions and attempts to "prove me wrong" instead of engaging honestly. And then, of course, your sly disingenuousness is somehow then blamed on me.

 

This is actually a wonderful little microcosm of the entire issue. You just couldn't respect me enough, up front, to play it straight. I answer all your dumbass questions and situations from the hip, assuming the best possible faith even with your snarky ass tone and responding in kind. And of course you're playing a game.

 

You don't get it. Obviously you don't. If you did, we would've started here. Instead, you assume this is the end. You assume this is you putting your cards down and winning. You're looking at this in a completely different way, and you're sure it's the right way.

 

We're only out here begging for our lives, but people instead pull this. "Yeah black lives might matter, maybe, but blue lives definitely matter and deserve more respect." 

 

***** off if that's your way, you dishonorable *****. 

Of all the people involved in this ongoing conversation, you seem to be the one acting in the most egregiously disrespectful, hostile and condescending way possible. You’ve basically smeared everyone here as racist when NOBODY has claimed one race is better than another.

[GregPersons]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

I engaged you an an entirely civil manner. I asked legitimate questions in response to posts that have extreme points of view. I have been very reasonable in everything I have said and taken a stance that both sides have their problems and need to come to the table in an honest way.

 

I didn't need to tell you or anyone else my background and history to post. You certainly didn't. It has no bearing on the legitimacy of the content of my posts. 

 

I agree with you on one thing. Our discussion is a microcosm of the entire issue. 

 

I will leave it up to the other posters on this board to determine which one of us was reasonable and civil and which one was not.

 

Take care.

 

True, your pro-cop stance was clear from the beginning. But only in the most recent post did you actually share your full thoughts. You didn't want to do that earlier, because you didn't want to be vulnerable in the conversation. You forced me to take that role, to be on the backfoot, answering your questions. It's a total power move, and you feel justified in it.

Of course you wouldn't allow it the other way. You wouldn't engage in good faith in the other direction. For me, now knowing this information, to give you scenarios of five questions each and demand answers. Or will you?

 

Also disingenuous to imply I've been anything but completely reasonable and civil with you. Maybe I curse a bit more. Big ***** deal.

Just now, Troll Toll said:

Of all the people involved in this ongoing conversation, you seem to be the one acting in the most egregiously disrespectful, hostile and condescending way possible. You’ve basically smeared everyone here as racist when NOBODY has claimed one race is better than another.

 

Well, that's because you're so racist, you think the only examples of racism is people screaming the N word or shouting "white power" 

[Chef Jim]

21 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

OHHHHHHHH I almost forgot about this one. Y'all love this one. "Broken families" are the cause of.... black people being murdered by the police.

 

So, how come Trump with his broken family and garbage education isn't struggling right now?  Ah yes. He was born into wealth. How is that possible? Because of generations of white looting. How do we know that? Because it's basic ass history. America was built on the back of slaves. White people profited from work they did not perform. It's always been known. "Five acres and a mule" or whatever. But the thing about White Americans is they're dishonorable. How can we say that?  Only all of the group's collective actions throughout the country's history.

 

Racists are dumb as ***** and y'all only keep showing it!

Five acres?  Damn inflation. 

[Reality Check]

4 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

True, your pro-cop stance was clear from the beginning. But only in the most recent post did you actually share your full thoughts. You didn't want to do that earlier, because you didn't want to be vulnerable in the conversation. You forced me to take that role, to be on the backfoot, answering your questions. It's a total power move, and you feel justified in it.

Of course you wouldn't allow it the other way. You wouldn't engage in good faith in the other direction. For me, now knowing this information, to give you scenarios of five questions each and demand answers. Or will you?

 

Also disingenuous to imply I've been anything but completely reasonable and civil with you. Maybe I curse a bit more. Big ***** deal.

 

Well, that's because you're so racist, you think the only examples of racism is people screaming the N word or shouting "white power" 

Why are you really here?