Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Why hasn't Trump started his rallies back up? Do as he says, not as he does?
shoshin Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, GG said: The biggest problem with CDC guidelines is the one size fits all approach for the entire country. That's not feasible even in NYS. The guidelines use only relative measures and have no specific numbers to meet except "days." My guess is that you haven't looked at them too hard, and I don't blame you for that, since only one state appears to be paying any attention to it. NYS modified it, and it applied it by region, which is resulting in larger urban areas opening later, as you would expect. Most people haven't read them. They are set up to work. 37 minutes ago, dubs said: I think you are missing the point and I am not trying to be condescending. If it sounds that way, I apologize. If the goal was to Open Up America, we would be open. Not really. The Trump/CDC guidelines set goals and gates to pass through to move through stages of reopening. Many places would not pass the test for stage 1. Quote So that's not the goal even if that's what it says. It's Open Up America with some type of mitigation of the virus. But there is no definition of that. The goal is to Open Up America. That happens in stages. If you read the guidelines, they achieve full "life being open for all of us" by eliminating the virus in stages as measured by our ability to continuously exercise control over the virus as we open more things. The guidelines take us from shutdown to concert-going. While we are going to concerts, the virus may still be around but who cares--we will have, at that point, achieved the old normal. Edited May 14, 2020 by shoshin
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 I usually dont pay much attention to David Portnoy, but damn is he on point this time. Everything he said is true. https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1260721488241418240?s=01 2 2
shoshin Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Couldn’t agree more. Why is the outcome of those who get Covid 19 important to opening up ? Shouldn’t the goal be hospital capacity and proper care for those who contract it ? Why aren’t we counting recoveries , including those who recover at home ? The outcome shouldn’t affect the ability of others to earn a living. Cuomo’s guidelines are pretty much impossible for most areas of NY. He has no intention of opening up, just of tanking the NY economy and using the crisis to bailout his mismanaged mess. You're clinging to someone else's story and are wrong. 4 out of 7 geographic areas can open now and even NY City is not that far off (new hospitalizations is the category it's furthest from and even that is within reach)--and EVERYONE on planet earth would expect NY City to open last. You can disagree with the metrics but they are the ones promoted by the Trump CDC and NYS is getting there on them. NYS is a model for how to come out of this right now considering how horrible the situation was there just a month ago. Edited May 14, 2020 by shoshin
Boatdrinks Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, shoshin said: You're clinging to someone else's story and are wrong. 4 out of 7 geographic areas can open now and even NYC is not that far off--and EVERYONE on planet earth would expect NYC to open last. You can disagree with the metrics but they are the ones promoted by the Trump CDC and NYS is getting there on them. I’m talking about Erie County specifically. It’s going to be hard / impossible to meet that benchmark. Not because we are horribly affected by Covid overall, but the criteria puts too much weight on who is getting it. Demographics are different in different regions of NYS, and yes I think NYC should be the last by far due to the impact there. 1
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Look at these two side by side. Notice the pattern?? 2 3
GG Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, shoshin said: The guidelines use only relative measures and have no specific numbers to meet except "days." My guess is that you haven't looked at them too hard, and I don't blame you for that, since only one state appears to be paying any attention to it. NYS modified it, and it applied it by region, which is resulting in larger urban areas opening later, as you would expect. Most people haven't read them. They are set up to work. Not really. The Trump/CDC guidelines set goals and gates to pass through to move through stages of reopening. Many places would not pass the test for stage 1. The goal is to Open Up America. That happens in stages. If you read the guidelines, they achieve full "life being open for all of us" by eliminating the virus in stages as measured by our ability to continuously exercise control over the virus as we open more things. The guidelines take us from shutdown to concert-going. While we are going to concerts, the virus may still be around but who cares--we will have, at that point, achieved the old normal. To clarify, those are the official White House orders, based on CDC and others' recommendations. The CDC orders were much more prescriptive. Surprised that battle wasn't picked up here by the peanut gallery when the admin kicked back the CDC recommendations after the first pass. 1 1
shoshin Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: I’m talking about Erie County specifically. It’s going to be hard / impossible to meet that benchmark. Not because we are horribly affected by Covid overall, but the criteria puts too much weight on who is getting it. Demographics are different in different regions of NYS, and yes I think NYC should be the last by far due to the impact there. WNY is only short in 2 categories. I have no doubt it'll get there soon. Cuomo is using the exact Trump numbers and has even added some arbitrary thresholds not included in the Trump guidelines to make it easier to meet. Edited May 14, 2020 by shoshin
Boatdrinks Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, shoshin said: WNY is only short in 2 categories. I have no doubt it'll get there soon. There's no conspiracy. Cuomo is using the exact Trump numbers and has even added some arbitrary thresholds not included in the Trump guidelines to make it easier to meet. You are much more optimistic than I am . Feeling like we will be behind NYC but that’s just me.
Doc Brown Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 59 minutes ago, GG said: The biggest problem with CDC guidelines is the one size fits all approach for the entire country. That's not feasible even in NYS. Trump saying he has the power to reopen and then saying it's up to the governors just added to the confusion for people that don't follow politics. Governors begging the federal government for more PPE also added to the confusion. The Trump administration has done a decent job since the end of February but their messaging has been terrible.
shoshin Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, GG said: To clarify, those are the official White House orders, based on CDC and others' recommendations. The CDC orders were much more prescriptive. Surprised that battle wasn't picked up here by the peanut gallery when the admin kicked back the CDC recommendations after the first pass. I call them the Trump-CDC guidelines because it hopefully speaks to both sides. Those are good guidelines. On the church/restaurant/other CDC recommendations story of last week, those things had very little substance beyond "practice common sense." Bizzarre that the admin cared about them at all.
Magox Posted May 14, 2020 Author Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) Guidelines are just that. Guidelines. In other words they aren't dictates but rather advice, principles and a general rule. I think what Dr. Birx would tell you that what is more important that they are following the general essence of their guidelines as opposed to following it to a tee. Every single state to my knowledge is in close consult with the Task Force and often times when I see that some of the states that didn't meet the specific goals of the guidelines when asked about them in front of Dr. Birx, she pretty much always states that she's been in communication with them, has seen their data and approves of what they are doing. Let's not get carried away with meeting the specifics as opposed to generally complying with the spirit of the guidelines. Edited May 14, 2020 by Magox
shoshin Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Magox said: Guidelines are just that. Guidelines. In other words they aren't dictates but rather advice, principles and a general rule. I think what Dr. Birx would tell you that what is more important that they are following the general essence of their guidelines as opposed to following it to a tee. Every single state to my knowledge is in close consult with the Task Force and often times when I see that some of the states that didn't meet the specific goals of the guidelines when asked about them in front of Dr. Birx, she pretty much always states that she's been in communication with them, has seen their data and approves of what they are doing. Let's not get carried away with meeting the specifics as opposed to generally complying with the spirit of the guidelines. With the exception of NYS, almost no state is following them so it doesn't matter that they originated with the CDC and were published by the admin. The standards for CA are such that much of it will be very hard to open. PA has a very high standard too. Not following some of the other NE state standards. TX just has some things companies have to do--no objective measures to move through phases. Very few states appear to be following the guidelines, even though they are straightforward and objective. Edited May 14, 2020 by shoshin 1
SoCal Deek Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 40 minutes ago, shoshin said: WNY is only short in 2 categories. I have no doubt it'll get there soon. Cuomo is using the exact Trump numbers and has even added some arbitrary thresholds not included in the Trump guidelines to make it easier to meet. This is a prime example of regulations being BADLY applied. WNY has almost no cases, hospitalizations, or deaths, and yet their supposed to show a consistent level of decline? 1 2
dubs Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, shoshin said: With the exception of NYS, almost no state is following them so it doesn't matter that they originated with the CDC and were published by the admin. The standards for CA are such that much of it will be very hard to open. PA has a very high standard too. Not following some of the other NE state standards. TX just has some things companies have to do--no objective measures to move through phases. Very few states appear to be following the guidelines, even though they are straightforward and objective. Again, what are the guidelines supposed to be accomplishing? It appears to me that they are trying to gradually open up while simultaneously maintaining a reduction in virus cases. In other words, the constraint for their model is 'no increase in new infections'. I don't know if that's true, that's just my interpretation of it because no one has really told us.
GG Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, dubs said: In other words, the constraint for their model is 'no increase in new infections'. I don't know if that's true, that's just my interpretation of it because no one has really told us. If that is the case, then you'll never open up because by nature of the virus the cases will keep growing. That should not be the standard. 2
dubs Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, GG said: If that is the case, then you'll never open up because by nature of the virus the cases will keep growing. That should not be the standard. Bingo!
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