Scott7975 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: one might argue if a guy is THAT raw there are questions about him going that high. When a QB is a need, usually you have to draft them higher than you want to. Maybe they should have taken Rosen because he was the most pro ready? I for one am glad they did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 Just now, NoSaint said: one might argue if a guy is THAT raw there are questions about him going that high. If you are indeed arguing how raw a top 10 rookie is, like I said earlier, there is no way to prove who is right considered QB situation of the team also plays a major role on whether a rookie QB plays in the first season or how much he plays. In this case, let’s just agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, NoSaint said: one might argue if a guy is THAT raw there are questions about him going that high. you can quote any interview you want. they went into the season with peterman and Allen. Either they were criminally negligent or they didn’t expect him to sit the whole season from pretty early in the process. or they didn't expect they would be winning a Superbowl last year and they felt Peterman would be a placeholder. They obviously expected Allen to sit, again not necessarily the entire year, so call it what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Scott7975 said: or they didn't expect they would be winning a Superbowl last year and they felt Peterman would be a placeholder. They obviously expected Allen to sit, again not necessarily the entire year, so call it what you want. they Had seen peterman play and your cool with the take that because they weren’t winning the super bowl, whatever, he’s got the job for the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: When a QB is a need, usually you have to draft them higher than you want to. Maybe they should have taken Rosen because he was the most pro ready? I for one am glad they did not. this could be a radical take but what if they thought he was closer to ready than a lot of this board gave credit and we don’t have to evaluate him with kid gloves 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: this could be a radical take but what if they thought he was closer to ready than a lot of this board gave credit and we don’t have to evaluate him with kid gloves It could be a radical take, but then one does have to explain why was Josh taking the #3 reps in his first training camp, behind a guy we cut and a guy who didn't last more than half a game? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It could be a radical take, but then one does have to explain why was Josh taking the #3 reps in his first training camp, behind a guy we cut and a guy who didn't last more than half a game? No to mention no veteran help, made worse when we cut the lone pseudo veteran, a WR coach as a QB coach, and a woefully unprepared WR corp. It was criminal malpractice. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: No to mention no veteran help, made worse when we cut the lone pseudo veteran, a WR coach as a QB coach, and a woefully unprepared WR corp. It was criminal malpractice. That WR as a QB coach is also the offensive assistant in Baltimore , also passing game coordinator and he does work with Lamar also. He is also WR coach that's alot on a coaches plate He was a good QB coach and might be a HC soon Edited December 25, 2019 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: That WR as a QB coach is also the offensive assistant in Baltimore , also passing game coordinator and he does work with Lamar also. He is also WR coach that's alot on a coaches plate He was a good QB coach and might be a HC soon He's a good coach. Just not a QB coach. Josh didn't discuss him like he does Dorsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: they Had seen peterman play and your cool with the take that because they weren’t winning the super bowl, whatever, he’s got the job for the season? Last year was about team building and developing a QB. This year is actually more of the same but they are way better than last year. Am I cool with it? I don't think it really matters. Although I think they should have had a solid journeyman on the team like Fitz or someone instead of a QB who was essentially another rookie. They did later on get Barkley who fits that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Claude Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) Returning to the OP, I find it curious that when Allen was putting up meh numbers against historically bad defenses, the narrative was the opponents don`t matter, it's just wins and losses. Now it`s yeh, he's putting up meh numbers but look at the great defenses he`s playing. Edited December 25, 2019 by Billy Claude 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: He's a good coach. Just not a QB coach. Josh didn't discuss him like he does Dorsey. Josh only said good things about him. The ONLY gripe people had with Culley was the day we hired him everybody looked at his credential's and saw he was a WR coach for the majority of his career... It's like looking at Allen's stats from college and saying he sucks or is inaccurate David Culley was a D1 QB and knows alot about the game and position. I know players who played under him and rave about him as a coach. Not a WR coach a football coach who can coach lots of things to a high degree The Culley sucks line was always a uneducated one I love Allen as a player and I think Dorsey is a good coach but his lower body mechanics have been completely out of whack with Dorsey and not consistent Edited December 25, 2019 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: this could be a radical take but what if they thought he was closer to ready than a lot of this board gave credit and we don’t have to evaluate him with kid gloves What difference does it make? Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. They proceeded how they proceeded. Allen is coming along just fine IMO. The team is 10-5 with a throwaway game against the Jets and a playoff game to follow. Considering the team building is not done, we have a lot of resources to continue it next season, Allen has improved from last year and over the course of the season... I think the Bills are doing just fine. I don't like Daboll and I don't like McD's we have a 4 point lead... lets shut it down approach, but it is what it is. I hope that the approach there is just part of how they feel they want to develop Allen. As he gets better, I hope they open it up more. I think next season is a good year to analyze. They should have more pieces, more experienced players in the starters that remain, Allen should progress even further. After this season, most would expect better next year. This year, IMO, has exceeded expectations. Can you honestly say at the beginning of the season you expected the Bills to be where they are at right now? I doubt it and I wouldn't believe you if you told me you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It could be a radical take, but then one does have to explain why was Josh taking the #3 reps in his first training camp, behind a guy we cut and a guy who didn't last more than half a game? I have always thought the offensive questions are fair but the answers around here go in circles a bit. Can’t judge josh, beane or McDermott over the offense for some reason. ultimately, if Josh is Russ Wilson in Newton’s body all 3 are in the hall of fame. But the discussions are a bit grating in that we can’t question anyone because he’s too raw but can’t judge them for the position they put that raw rookie in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 30 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Josh only said good things about him. The ONLY gripe people had with Culley was the day we hired him everybody looked at his credential's and saw he was a WR coach for the majority of his career... It's like looking at Allen's stats from college and saying he sucks or is inaccurate David Culley was a D1 QB and knows alot about the game and position. I know players who played under him and rave about him as a coach. Not a WR coach a football coach who can coach lots of things to a high degree The Culley sucks line was always a uneducated one I love Allen as a player and I think Dorsey is a good coach but his lower body mechanics have been completely out of whack with Dorsey and not consistent You and I have gone through this ad nauseum. It's one of few things we disagree on fundamentally and I think you're one of the very best posters on here. So we'll agree to disagree. One thing I did want to note though, is that I think of Culley as one of 4-6 major mistakes that McD and somewhat Beane made with Josh and the QB position last year including Peterman, no veteran, no WR, terrible OL and OL coaching, and no one who had really developed a QB before; the Culley part was probably the least important, not at the top of importance as far as mistakes went. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slack_in_MA Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: You and I have gone through this ad nauseum. It's one of few things we disagree on fundamentally and I think you're one of the very best posters on here. So we'll agree to disagree. One thing I did want to note though, is that I think of Culley as one of 4-6 major mistakes that McD and somewhat Beane made with Josh and the QB position last year including Peterman, no veteran, no WR, terrible OL and OL coaching, and no one who had really developed a QB before; the Culley part was probably the least important, not at the top of importance as far as mistakes went. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Go Bills! How much of that do you think was attributed to their salary cap/dead $ situation last year? Honest question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, NoSaint said: I have always thought the offensive questions are fair but the answers around here go in circles a bit. Can’t judge josh, beane or McDermott over the offense for some reason. ultimately, if Josh is Russ Wilson in Newton’s body all 3 are in the hall of fame. But the discussions are a bit grating in that we can’t question anyone because he’s too raw but can’t judge them for the position they put that raw rookie in. I kind of don't get this, Saint. At least, I read criticism of Josh Allen, of Beane's handling of the offense, and of McDermott and Daboll - and how! on this board all the time. Ultimately, if Josh succeeds he will be his own unique guy I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 50 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Josh only said good things about him. The ONLY gripe people had with Culley was the day we hired him everybody looked at his credential's and saw he was a WR coach for the majority of his career... It's like looking at Allen's stats from college and saying he sucks or is inaccurate David Culley was a D1 QB and knows alot about the game and position. I know players who played under him and rave about him as a coach. Not a WR coach a football coach who can coach lots of things to a high degree The Culley sucks line was always a uneducated one I love Allen as a player and I think Dorsey is a good coach but his lower body mechanics have been completely out of whack with Dorsey and not consistent I dunno about Culley as a QB coach. What I do know is early on in the season (I can't find it now) Allen was talking about the differences between last season and this season and he said that Daboll didn't "have to" (his words) sit in on all the QB room meetings this year or watch the drills as much. He said that Daboll and Dorsey were very in sync. He didn't say anything bad about Culley, not at all, but the implication was that for whatever reason, Daboll felt the need to mix it in with the QB room and drills more last year. It could be something as simple as perhaps Culley wasn't fully up to speed on the system Daboll wanted to run so Daboll had to be there to answer questions. What I see, caveat of course that you have better eyes for this than I do, is that when Allen has plenty of time, his mechanics look OK. It shows in his greatly improved short to intermediate throws. But last year, I don't feel that Allen would stay in the pocket and make throws under pressure. He would bail and run. This year he is trying to stand in and make plays with his arm more, and especially under pressure and perhaps because the intermediate throws were much more of a focus and changed something he does when he throws long, he's off. 10 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said: How much of that do you think was attributed to their salary cap/dead $ situation last year? Honest question. None, really. They asked Daboll as OC to retain pretty much all Dennison's staff. It was strange, usually an OC will bring in guys who know his system and have worked with him. As far as dead cap, I've gone through the math before, and for the money they did spend on some offensive FA including Bodine and Corey Coleman, plus a bit of the extra cap they had, they could have brought in Pouncey and probably worked a trade for a decent vet WR. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said: You and I have gone through this ad nauseum. It's one of few things we disagree on fundamentally and I think you're one of the very best posters on here. So we'll agree to disagree. One thing I did want to note though, is that I think of Culley as one of 4-6 major mistakes that McD and somewhat Beane made with Josh and the QB position last year including Peterman, no veteran, no WR, terrible OL and OL coaching, and no one who had really developed a QB before; the Culley part was probably the least important, not at the top of importance as far as mistakes went. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Go Bills! Merry Christmas Can't wait for your column this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Jerk Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 I gave the meh face, just because somebody had to, ya dig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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