The D isn't built to handle what hit them today

[Paulus]

11 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Not sure you watched the first half. How many points did the defense allow prior to Allen’s fumble? How many yards?

You mean how our offense stalled because the defense gave up a 100 yard td run? Because that is your logic.

 

[Big Blitz]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You got a link to that article?  Be nice to have it?

 

 

That simply begs the question "why aren't we?"

Because big physical olines are not going away.

 

 

Just like to point out we traded a guy like that away (there may have been other legit reasons), and I think we thought that was what we were getting when we signed Lotuleilei.

 

But yes, I agree it would be nice to make a trade if someone legit is available.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/10/25/20929585/beginners-guide-to-buffalo-bills-surprising-5-1-start

 

[BringBackOrton]

8 hours ago, Paulus said:

You mean how our offense stalled because the defense gave up a 100 yard td run? Because that is your logic.

 

Unfortunately, offensive production is not tied to defensive points allowed. But defensive points allowed is related to offensive turnovers.

 

The answer was 3 points btw. 3 points allowed in almost the entire first half. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[LSHMEAB]

19 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

So true.  Our supposedly top 5 defense not only can't stop the run, they're not getting to the QB or disrupting plays in the backfield...all due to not being able to penetrate the O-line.

Unfortunately, I do not see them getting a DE or DT before the trade deadline.  This means that a scheme change is necessary; there is no way McD and Frazier can keep doing things the way they've been and expect success.  Brian Flores and his tanking Miami Dolphins team exposed them.  If Adrian Peterson puts up 200 yards and we cannot harass Haskins or Keenum, our defensive masterminds didn't do their jobs.

Edmunds outside and trade for some "run of the mill" run stuffing MLB. Edmunds could pretty easily make the transition IMO. Could be a monster rushing the passer AND still provide solid coverage. With Milano and Edmunds in coverage, alot of the deficiencies said "run of the mill" MLB would likely have in that area. 

 

Pretty sure McD won't go that route, but that's the best short term solution I can come up with.

 

Average to above average run stuffing MLB's are easy as (blank) to find. They're everywhere.

19 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

I love my certain players, I root for these guys before they are drafted and as always am very devestated when we pass on them or don't trade up for them time and again... So naturally I want to see them make their way to where they belong!

You got a top 10 list of players you wish were on the Bills?

Edited October 28, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[LSHMEAB]

19 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I thought about this today.

 

There have been folks saying that his game is finally tailing off and we need a pass rushing end earlier this year, but I thought perhaps it was a slow start, but I cannot recall a year where his name was mentioned so infrequently.

 

He had that hustle fumble recovery play last week, but really has not been as much of a factor rushing the QB.

 

May be time to start developing a young DE or shopping for a proven commodity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time to shop. I give Beane credit for recognizing this prior to the season, but nothing materialized. I fully expect to see a big time proven commodity DE as the top FREE AGENT priority. For Buffalo, gotta go draft to get the skill position players.

[Rocket94]

25 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Time to shop. I give Beane credit for recognizing this prior to the season, but nothing materialized. I fully expect to see a big time proven commodity DE as the top FREE AGENT priority. For Buffalo, gotta go draft to get the skill position players.

Yes...a DE, MLB, and a DT.

[Happy]

39 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Edmunds outside and trade for some "run of the mill" run stuffing MLB. Edmunds could pretty easily make the transition IMO. Could be a monster rushing the passer AND still provide solid coverage. With Milano and Edmunds in coverage, alot of the deficiencies said "run of the mill" MLB would likely have in that area. 

 

Pretty sure McD won't go that route, but that's the best short term solution I can come up with.

 

Average to above average run stuffing MLB's are easy as (blank) to find. They're everywhere.

 

 

I don't see them moving Edmunds to an outside linebacker spot; it goes against how McDermott built this defense.  I think they'll keep Edmunds at MLB and be patient with him.

 

That leaves the DT spot; currently Kyle Peko is simply not good enough and needs to be replaced.  Who is available, I'm not sure.  Unfortunately, they'll also keep Star for at least the rest of this season and probably next, as well.  Jordan Phillips is playing well and hope they can get him signed to a longer contract.  Ed Oliver, not surprisingly, is struggling like a rookie will; I don't think he's big enough at this point.  Oliver probably needs to put 20+ lbs on his frame, which (coupled with experience) should make a difference next year.  I don't see them adding a DT right now, especially if none are available that helps this year and in the future.  Harrison Phillips, while i thought was ok, 

 

Of course DE is another problem, but not sure who is available at a reasonable price.  Kerrigan would be nice, but the Redskins won't give him away...probably looking for a 1st round pick.

 

I agree that your short term solution of moving Edmunds outside and getting a bigger, traditional thumper MLB would be the quickest way to fix the problem.  Unfortunately that won't happen.  That leaves McD and Frazier having to adjust their scheme.  They have to make some changes because they've been figured out.

[Doc]

Move Vincent Taylor to the active roster. 

[Paulus]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

Unfortunately, offensive production is not tied to defensive points allowed. But defensive points allowed is related to offensive turnovers.

 

The answer was 3 points btw. 3 points allowed in almost the entire first half. 

Lol, so when the defense is on the field the whole time, keeping the ball from the offense, the two are not tied... 

 

I really am afraid you believe your malarkey. 

 

Member when I said Wallace and our run defense looked like a liability and were exploited by the dolphins, and you disagreed? Member when I said other teams would take note? I member.... Keep blaming Allen, tho.

 

[Thurman#1]

On 10/28/2019 at 10:21 AM, Big Blitz said:

We built a D built to cover....Read the article in the Ringer this week on how we built a team for the 2020s.  Fast.  And must cover. And get after the QB.  I think we know this anyway.  That's why we have Oliver.    EDIT:  https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/10/25/20929585/beginners-guide-to-buffalo-bills-surprising-5-1-start

 

And no doubt we can cover and get to the QB especially against poor to above average lines. 

 

 

The bad news....

 

We are not built to beat big physical olines like the Eagles have. 

 

Edmunds is probably not going to be a run stopping force in the middle.  He was drafted because of his athleticism.  Meaning, he can cover.   

 

And when it all hits the fan like it did today and those big linemen get in space on those screens, and the RBs are good like Philly's are, combined with a coach that knows how to call a game....you got what hit us today.   

 

The Cowboys, Steelers, and Ravens---those are physical and good olines we'll see the down the stretch.  I think they might have 3 of the best olines outside of Indy.  

 

This is something that can and has to be addressed NOW.  Get a legit run stuffing DT like Detroit did last year with Snacks Harrison.  Completely fixed their run D.  If that guy is available get him asap.   

 

I don't know what Denver did today to slow down Indy and their run game but if anyone on their front 7 is available call them.  The Redskins might be shopping Kerrigan to.  

 

That's 3 games left vs good running teams with great olines.  Still have New England to.  That could be 4 losses.  And that's a problem.

 

We have to address it by Tuesday imo.  

 

 

 

Not really buying this. Or at least not yet.

 

We're still early in the Beane-McDermott era. And we played the Pats, a tough team that can run, very tough.

 

It certainly was a bad game this week. So far, that's all it was, one game.

 

And Edmunds has every chance of being a good run stopping force. He's 250 pounds and violent.

 

The last thing we need to do is hit the panic button as you suggest and change the plan. Instead, work the plan. This is a young team. They have a lot of developing still to do.

 

 

 

Man. People go nuts here with the wailing and gnashing of teeth after a bad loss.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Turk71]

23 hours ago, TallskiWallski83 said:

Harrison Phillips injury along with Star Latoulelei's massive regression are why we are where we are. 

Star's massive regression started in his last years in Carolina well before the Bills signed him to that ridiculous 5 year contract. 

14 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

 

I was criticized for saying last week we should be concerned about Philly, Baltimore, Dallas, and of course the Pats.  I was very hopeful we would play better yesterday, but we were exposed.  That’s two weeks in a row we did not play well.  You never can count on all of the other games as well, but we looked so bad yesterday.

 

I truly hope I’m wrong and we correct our mistakes.

Poor play and extremely poor coaching, 12 handoffs and 34 passes in high winds is inexcusable stupidity.

[LSHMEAB]

5 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Star's massive regression started in his last years in Carolina well before the Bills signed him to that ridiculous 5 year contract. 

Yeah. I think people want to believe he's been under the radar good because it would be some kind of indictment if Beane's big first signing was a bad one. It was a poor choice. It's not the end of the world. The worst thing a GM can do is double down on a bad decision, so I'd like to see them recognize the mistake and take actions to replace him. He's gonna be here this year, but I LIKE to think he'll be gone in 2020. We can eat that cap space.

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Edmunds outside and trade for some "run of the mill" run stuffing MLB. Edmunds could pretty easily make the transition IMO. Could be a monster rushing the passer AND still provide solid coverage. With Milano and Edmunds in coverage, alot of the deficiencies said "run of the mill" MLB would likely have in that area. 

 

Pretty sure McD won't go that route, but that's the best short term solution I can come up with.

 

Average to above average run stuffing MLB's are easy as (blank) to find. They're everywhere.

You got a top 10 list of players you wish were on the Bills?

Christian McCaffrey

Luke Kuechly

TJ Watt

JJ Watt

Cooper Kupp

Joey Bosa

Nick Bosa

Leighton Vander Esch

Harrison Smith

TJ Hockenson & George Kittle

Adam Thielen

 

Eric Weddle

Clay Matthews

 

All guys I'd love on the team, obviously Weddle and Matthews when they were younger especially. 

 

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

10 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Christian McCaffrey

Luke Kuechly

TJ Watt

JJ Watt

Cooper Kupp

Joey Bosa

Nick Bosa

Leighton Vander Esch

Harrison Smith

TJ Hockenson & George Kittle

Adam Thielen

 

Eric Weddle

Clay Matthews

 

All guys I'd love on the team, obviously Weddle and Matthews when they were younger especially. 

 

 

 

Very good players. VERY interesting list. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Very good players. VERY interesting list. 

Forgot to add in Ryan Kerrigan...

I'd run a 3-4 D with those guys.

TJ Watt and Nick Bosa as OLBs with Kerrigan, Joey, JJ versatile enough to move into those spots as well to confuse.

Kuechly and Vander Esch are the MLBs

Joey and Kerrigan at DE with JJ in the middle.

 

Would be the best D ever, possibly 0 points all season if all healthy.

[Thurman#1]

22 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

These points are all entirely valid. The run defense has some pieces that simply haven't worked over the past two weeks and could be a problem going forward.

 

But what we're not talking about is what DIDN'T happen and continues to NOT happen. We're not seeing the kind of game changing plays or drive killing sacks that put the opposing offense in negative down and distance situations. The defense is most certainly lacking that elite edge rusher that must be accounted for and the sum of the parts just isn't enough. 

 

I've seen plenty of 3rd and long stops this season, but I haven't seen nearly enough of them end with the a Bill in the quarterbacks mug forcing a huge mistake. 

 

 

 

While I certainly wouldn't mind getting a premier edge rusher, it's not an absolute necessity. 

 

Carolina was 2nd in the league in sacks in 2016, McDermott's last year there. Who was their big sack artist? Mario Addison led them with 9.5, and the next guy got 6.

 

In 2015 they were 6th in the league in sacks. Kawann Short had 11 and Addison was next with 6.

 

In 2013 they led the league with 60. They had Greg Hardy in his one truly great year with 15. And Charles Johnson did very well across from him with 11.0. Is Charles Johnson an "elite edge rusher." The year after that they had 40.

 

Again, I wouldn't mind a bit if we get a guy like that. But it looks a bit as if McDermott defenses manufacture sacks from scheme and lots of guys getting a few.

 

And while drive-killing sacks are nice, any way you kill the drive is pretty much as good.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

Star's massive regression started in his last years in Carolina well before the Bills signed him to that ridiculous 5 year contract. 

 

 

 

His "massive" regression? Puh-leeze. If he'd massively regressed, McDermott, I'm guessing, might possibly have noticed and, you know, not brought him to Buffalo.

 

What, pray tell, was his "massive regression"? Going from averaging 2.5 sacks his first four years to 1.5 sacks that final year? Woooooooooooow!!!!! Massive!!!

 

He's never been a big numbers guy. His sacks have mostly been of the I'll keep active and occasionally the edge guys will cause a QB to run into me type. 

 

He's a space eater. It's what he's always done and it's what they hired him to do here. And he did it just fine last year, but there are questions this year.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Well McDermott continues to force Edmunds at MLB when it's starting to become obvious it isn't his position... perhaps the guys a little stubborn and confident in his abilities as a coach.... Star is essentially useless. The defensive line overall is pretty damn mediocre with a good chunk of change invested in it. 

 

 

It's not "obvious it isn't his position," to any but a few annoying Bills kibitzers.

 

What's obvious is that despite a bad game the defense has quickly developed into an extremely good one, and that McDermott knows a ton more about D than you do.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

The Bills D is more oriented to stopping the pass rather than power running. That is good, because the NFL is a passing league overall. But what is not good, is that the offense does not score enough to force opposing teams to go pass heavy.

[Turk71]

20 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

His "massive" regression? Puh-leeze. If he'd massively regressed, McDermott, I'm guessing, might possibly have noticed and, you know, not brought him to Buffalo.

 

What, pray tell, was his "massive regression"? Going from averaging 2.5 sacks his first four years to 1.5 sacks that final year? Woooooooooooow!!!!! Massive!!!

 

He's never been a big numbers guy. His sacks have mostly been of the I'll keep active and occasionally the edge guys will cause a QB to run into me type. 

 

He's a space eater. It's what he's always done and it's what they hired him to do here. And he did it just fine last year, but there are questions this year.

 

  His run stop % fell off a cliff his last 2 years in Carolina after being at a high level for two years, it has never recovered. Carolina had no interest in re-signing him.

   A lack of sacks has nothing to do with it, his job is to occupy blockers and stuff the run and unfortunately he is not that good at it.