GoBills808 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Luka said: I personally think he does it too much because you have to actually run the real play for the fake to work. 9 times out of 10 it's just window dressing that slows down the development of the play. I don't think the Eagles committed to the motion a single time. Now if we actually handed the ball off on jet sweeps more than once a game, threw a screen to the guy in motion etc. with more consistency then I'd be fine with it. But as it stands, I think his tendencies are showing on film and that's why the Eagles weren't buying it. Eagles are imo one of the best at giving same or similar offensive looks to different plays, Pederson is a very good offensive mind...they see that stuff defensively in practice and Daboll can't really compare yet. Outcoached was the deal on Sunday which is no insult to our staff, Eagles are solid both sides of the ball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Eagles are imo one of the best at giving same or similar offensive looks to different plays, Pederson is a very good offensive mind...they see that stuff defensively in practice and Daboll can't really compare yet. Outcoached was the deal on Sunday which is no insult to our staff, Eagles are solid both sides of the ball My personal opinion is Daboll needs to move towards shoring up the personnel groupings. Do we really need Lee Smith on the field now that Kroft is healthy? McKenzie played really well last year and now we only see him for gadget plays? He's got speed, why is it Roberts and not McKenzie on the deep balls? Where's Foster? He had great chemistry with Allen by the end of the season last year. We've had something like 160+ unique personnel groupings which was top 3 in the league at one point, doesn't seem to bode well for consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Eagles are imo one of the best at giving same or similar offensive looks to different plays, Pederson is a very good offensive mind...they see that stuff defensively in practice and Daboll can't really compare yet. Outcoached was the deal on Sunday which is no insult to our staff, Eagles are solid both sides of the ball I agree completely. In my opinion, Pederson outcoached Belichek in the Super Bowl, so there is no shame in the fact that he outcoached Daboll and McDermott last week. This is still a very talented football team and I believe we will bounce back and hopefully be better prepared the next time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Luka said: My personal opinion is Daboll needs to move towards shoring up the personnel groupings. Do we really need Lee Smith on the field now that Kroft is healthy? McKenzie played really well last year and now we only see him for gadget plays? He's got speed, why is it Roberts and not McKenzie on the deep balls? Where's Foster? He had great chemistry with Allen by the end of the season last year. We've had something like 160+ unique personnel groupings which was top 3 in the league at one point, doesn't seem to bode well for consistency. I see where the roster stands right now as a crisis of continuity...they don't have enough guys with the skillsets to run what they want so it looks very disjointed, both defense and offense. Like from draft it was obvious Daboll wants to run 2TE sets but they don't have enough similarly skilled TEs to stay multiple so every TE combination dictates a different play...it makes offense more predictable and easier to defend. On defense same problem w/DT 1tech rotation- scheme needs foundation 1tech but all the DTs have different skillsets once H Phillips goes down so mixing/matching interior defenders creates exploitable patterns. The roster isn't quite tailored to what they want to do yet which imo is why they look disjointed both offensively and defensively; having to mix and match guys with different skillsets to fit scheme. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: I see where the roster stands right now as a crisis of continuity...they don't have enough guys with the skillsets to run what they want so it looks very disjointed, both defense and offense. Like from draft it was obvious Daboll wants to run 2TE sets but they don't have enough similarly skilled TEs to stay multiple so every TE combination dictates a different play...it makes offense more predictable and easier to defend. On defense same problem w/DT 1tech rotation- scheme needs foundation 1tech but all the DTs have different skillsets once H Phillips goes down so mixing/matching interior defenders creates exploitable patterns. The roster isn't quite tailored to what they want to do yet which imo is why they look disjointed both offensively and defensively; having to mix and match guys with different skillsets to fit scheme. That's a great observation. Maybe it's just time to pick the starters and roll with them. Just understand the weaknesses and play to our strengths. I think you're definitely spot on, it does seem to make us very predictable. If McKenzie is in, watch the sweep. If Murphy and Star are in the game, run the football etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, Luka said: That's a great observation. Maybe it's just time to pick the starters and roll with them. Just understand the weaknesses and play to our strengths. I think you're definitely spot on, it does seem to make us very predictable. If McKenzie is in, watch the sweep. If Murphy and Star are in the game, run the football etc. Like I am almost positive they want to run more playaction for Allen (his #s in PA vs non-PA are crazy), but you need to set that up by Gore being effective...which means early game a using some 12 personnel so teams can't stack 8 in the box on run downs...but of those 2TEs it's going to be pretty obvious what your intentions are as to run or pass so they're in a bind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: They’re heading into November with 2 wins ....AND...with OBJ, Mayfield and the "Kitchens Sink".....shaping up to be >a Susan Lucci soap....stay tuned.......special thanks to "Rebate Jimmy" for the theater........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Like I am almost positive they want to run more playaction for Allen (his #s in PA vs non-PA are crazy), but you need to set that up by Gore being effective...which means early game a using some 12 personnel so teams can't stack 8 in the box on run downs...but of those 2TEs it's going to be pretty obvious what your intentions are as to run or pass so they're in a bind. That should play to his advantage, but somehow it doesn't. That 12 personnel should be lethal in play action but again, I think it comes back to the groupings. If they are going to run, Smith is in. Pass, it was Sweeney and Kroft but now Knox and Kroft. Daboll should take some notes from his former boss McDaniel's and maybe start running some two back sets. Gore and Singletary at the same time. Can motion one of them out of the back field. Fake draw to screen. An actual draw play (I mention it just because I can't recall a time this year we ran a draw). Be like McVay, figure out how to keep your best players on the field and get them the ball. And just to tie this into the Browns, we still need that Odell type of threat in the passing game where teams have to consider doubling him. It might just be Josh's inability to get the ball deep this year but we are really getting handled by teams that play man coverage because they have no reason not to play man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....special thanks to "Rebate Jimmy" for the theater........ ‘Rebate Jimmy’, or ‘Reprobate Jimmy’? ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, Luka said: That should play to his advantage, but somehow it doesn't. That 12 personnel should be lethal in play action but again, I think it comes back to the groupings. If they are going to run, Smith is in. Pass, it was Sweeney and Kroft but now Knox and Kroft. Daboll should take some notes from his former boss McDaniel's and maybe start running some two back sets. Gore and Singletary at the same time. Can motion one of them out of the back field. Fake draw to screen. An actual draw play (I mention it just because I can't recall a time this year we ran a draw). Be like McVay, figure out how to keep your best players on the field and get them the ball. And just to tie this into the Browns, we still need that Odell type of threat in the passing game where teams have to consider doubling him. It might just be Josh's inability to get the ball deep this year but we are really getting handled by teams that play man coverage because they have no reason not to play man. Exactly. I think we're seeing certain positions in the NFL becoming obsolete by offensive design...like the 'blocking TE' is going to be a thing of the past. You NEED to be able to run routes and catch as well as block because so much of what coaches are trying to do depends on staying flexible within base sets/groupings...like sorry Lee Smith but you are a paid professional football player, and if you're getting snaps we are GOING to throw you the ball a certain percentage of the time just to keep defenses honest so work on your route running and hands. I also think Daboll has a chicken/egg thing going on wrt his calls and play design because of limited skill on offense...but imo it's clear they could be doing better. They ran a rollout the other week (maybe Dolphins) that was predicated on McKenzie sweep motion which SHOULD have been the big gotcha that previous plays had set up but the route designs didn't maximize the unbalanced defense. I think Daboll can improve some even with limited talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleshifter Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 On 9/23/2019 at 4:27 AM, dorquemada said: It certainly looks like the sniffed their own farts in the offseason and really like what they smelled That certainly seems like a Brownsie thing, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 they were down 17 with a few minutes to go and went for the FG on 4th down they could have recovered onside twice and score 2 TDs and gone for it on the second TD for the 2 points and the win so they almost won the game (i see worse reasoning on here often) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagon127 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 The browns have a very easy schedule coming up. They could probably win 5 or 6 of their next 7 games. The bills would probably have the same record as the browns, if they played the NFC west this year. Something the bills should take note of this offseason, as we play them next year. The only difference is week 1 against the Titans, but that could have been a fluke. It obviously was a fluke for Tennesee at least. I really feel the Bills vs. Browns game will be the closest game the bills play all year. Not just in points, but in overall play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, wagon127 said: The browns have a very easy schedule coming up. They could probably win 5 or 6 of their next 7 games. The bills would probably have the same record as the browns, if they played the NFC west this year. Something the bills should take note of this offseason, as we play them next year. The only difference is week 1 against the Titans, but that could have been a fluke. It obviously was a fluke for Tennesee at least. I really feel the Bills vs. Browns game will be the closest game the bills play all year. Not just in points, but in overall play. i wouldn't have boasted the best Kelly Era team could go 5-2 over the next 7 games at any point this is the NFL..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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