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Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th


BillsFan4

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Looks like Trouba traded to the Rangers for pick #20 and a prospect.

That’s it? Better be a damn good prospect. 

 

Edit -

 

 

 

I’m usually never one of those guys who, after a player is traded, says “we couldn’t have beat that?”.

 

But.... We couldn’t beat That?! 

Edited by BillsFan4
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28 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Seemed like a light return. I don't know anything about the prospect.

Poink was an undrafted college free agent they signed in 2017. He’s ok. A 3rd pairing guy (maybe a #4 at best, but I see some people saying he may not have even made the Rangers team this season. Yikes!)

 

 

And the pick is Winnipeg’s that they traded the NYR to rent Hayes for a couple months (his right were already traded to Philly...lol)

 

There mist be issues with Trouba’s next contract or something. He’s been notoriously hard to negotiate with. That’s my best guess anyway. 

 

Seems like a terrible return for Winnipeg. If he signs long term in NY shortly, then I have no clue what Winnipeg was doing. 

 

Edit - I’m reading a lot of people saying he’s a 3rd pair defenseman

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1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

Wow. Just... 

 

Jets cut their own throat, unless they know for sure Trouba has his sights set on UFA with a very specific destination in mind (Detroit? His hometown team). 

I think it has to be a UFA thing. Rangers taking a chance. At least the Jets don't have to worry they are getting little return on a future Conn Smythe winner :doh:

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1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

Wow. Just... 

 

Jets cut their own throat, unless they know for sure Trouba has his sights set on UFA with a very specific destination in mind (Detroit? His hometown team). 

The Jets had no choice other than to ship him out for whatever they could get. Trouba is looking for a market value contract.  Winnipeg simply could not fit him in within their cap especially since they have other contracts on the team to address. Ehlers is a good player on their roster who might be available in a trade because of their cap squeeze. 

 

I'm hoping that Botts can make a deal with a cap stressed team or two for a second line player. We got that extra first round pick to work with. All teams are active in the market but it has been noted by many in the business that Botts is aggressively seeking deals. Let's get something done! 

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10 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

That’s it? Better be a damn good prospect. 

 

Edit -

 

 

 

I’m usually never one of those guys who, after a player is traded, says “we couldn’t have beat that?”.

 

But.... We couldn’t beat That?! 

The trade is only great for the Rangers if they sign him to a deal.  He's a one year rental who basically just got moved so the Rangers have the exclusive right to negotiate with him AND offer him an additional year on his contract.  If they can't sign him, they just dumped a first round pick for almost zero.

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1 hour ago, Alaska Darin said:

The trade is only great for the Rangers if they sign him to a deal.  He's a one year rental who basically just got moved so the Rangers have the exclusive right to negotiate with him AND offer him an additional year on his contract.  If they can't sign him, they just dumped a first round pick for almost zero.

well, he is an RFA, not a UFA..so even in someone signs him to an offer sheet, say at $7.5 per year,they will get a 1st,2nd, and a 3rd, as well as the ability to match it...as the Rangers would have given up had they signed him to an offer sheet.( edit) think i get what meant now..he can still go to arbitration this year, get a 1 year deal, and be an UFA next year..hence the rental part!! Got it now

 

I dont understand all the rules, downside is he is arbitration eligible i think..which can complicate things a tad. Somewhat why I want Sabres to redo Samson post July 1..going to arbitration with him could get ugly.

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16 hours ago, JohnC said:

What it means is if we are salivating over Caufield we aren't the only team slobbering over this player. 

So, it's your belief that the team would trot out employees to publicly tout a specific player because they want the world to know that they covet him?

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1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

So, it's your belief that the team would trot out employees to publicly tout a specific player because they want the world to know that they covet him?

You are missing the point. The players in the group after the top two from 3 to 10 are tightly bunched. Since six months ago Caufield has moved up from below the middle of the first round rated player to be a top 6-10 ranked player. The point I made is that most teams also rank him very high including those drafting ahead of us. There are no surprises and secrets about him and the other players in his grouping. The Sabre scout in his WGR analysis commented on all the players in the Caufield group. So he wasn't indicating who he favored. My point was that there is no guarantee that he will be on the board when we pick at the seven spot. 

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22 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are missing the point. The players in the group after the top two from 3 to 10 are tightly bunched. Since six months ago Caufield has moved up from below the middle of the first round rated player to be a top 6-10 ranked player. The point I made is that most teams also rank him very high including those drafting ahead of us. There are no surprises and secrets about him and the other players in his grouping. The Sabre scout in his WGR analysis commented on all the players in the Caufield group. So he wasn't indicating who he favored. My point was that there is no guarantee that he will be on the board when we pick at the seven spot. 

what cracks me up about  the NHL draft and all us board jockeys is realistically none have us have a clue about how these guys can play based on what we have seen.(outside @BillsFan4, that dude sounds like he knows his poop)..cause if anything we have seen some you tube highlights and maybe a few internationl trnys at best. All of this is just based Central Scouting, and what we have read, not what we have seen

 

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4 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

what cracks me up about  the NHL draft and all us board jockeys is realistically none have us have a clue about how these guys can play based on what we have seen...cause if anything we have seen some you tube highlights and maybe a few internationl trnys at best. All of this is just based Central Scouting, and what we have read, not what we have seen

 

The one thing we do know is that whoever we draft, they should be given 8 years before they are expected to produce.  Nylander's 2024 should be decent for example.

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3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

what cracks me up about  the NHL draft and all us board jockeys is realistically none have us have a clue about how these guys can play based on what we have seen...cause if anything we have seen some you tube highlights and maybe a few internationl trnys at best. All of this is just based Central Scouting, and what we have read, not what we have seen

 

I'm not sure what your point is. Of course few of us board jockeys have the time to actually watch the players under review. The same limitations apply to other sports. And what compounds the challenge in hockey is the young age of those being evaluated. Where I disagree with you is that a sizeable number of the first round picks do in time become legitimate NHL players. I'm one of the least knowledgeable hockey people on this board. However, that doesn't mean that I lack common sense. If there are numerous draft sites that come to the same general evaluations then for me that is something to make a reasonable judgment from. 

 

Go back to the recent past number of drafts. You will observe that many of the high ranked players do turn out to be good players. There is an army of scouts who follow the prospects not only where they play in their leagues, colleges or wherever but also follow them in the international tournaments where you can make player comparisons. What's wrong with taking into consideration their evaluations? 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm not sure what your point is. Of course few of us board jockeys have the time to actually watch the players under review. The same limitations apply to other sports. And what compounds the challenge in hockey is the young age of those being evaluated. Where I disagree with you is that a sizeable number of the first round picks do in time become legitimate NHL players. I'm one of the least knowledgeable hockey people on this board. However, that doesn't mean that I lack common sense. If there are numerous draft sites that come to the same general evaluations then for me that is something to make a reasonable judgment from. 

 

Go back to the recent past number of drafts. You will observe that many of the high ranked players do turn out to be good players. There is an army of scouts who follow the prospects not only where they play in their leagues, colleges or wherever but also follow them in the international tournaments where you can make player comparisons. What's wrong with taking into consideration their evaluations? 

 

 

my point is exactly what you say..the NHL and baseball drafts are complete mysteries to guys like us..only way to see 98% of these guys plays is to   be in the arena. At least with NFL and BB, so many games on TV and tape, we can form our own opinions is all i was saying

 

Top 5 of the NHL draft might be the safest draft of all, even though drafting so young!

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3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

my point is exactly what you say..the NHL and baseball drafts are complete mysteries to guys like us..only way to see 98% of these guys plays is to   be in the arena. At least with NFL and BB, so many games on TV and tape, we can form our own opinions is all i was saying

 

Top 5 of the NHL draft might be the safest draft of all, even though drafting so young!

If you are a Sabre fan because of our historical futility and where we typically draft the draft does have more meaning for us than it does for the middle and upper echelon teams. The difference in hockey compared to some sports is that unless you are drafting at the very top the players you are picking will require more development time. That's another aspect of the draft that I find interesting (others don't) is in the player development. 

 

It might bore others but watching Mitts or Nylander or Pilot or Olaffsson or Borgen or Reinhart develop or not is an aspect of hockey that I appreciate very much. Because of the cap structure unless you have this youthful feeder system the team is not going to succeed. Big trades get a lot of publicity but the development of young players is the heart and soul for sustained success. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, JohnC said:

You are missing the point. The players in the group after the top two from 3 to 10 are tightly bunched. Since six months ago Caufield has moved up from below the middle of the first round rated player to be a top 6-10 ranked player. The point I made is that most teams also rank him very high including those drafting ahead of us. There are no surprises and secrets about him and the other players in his grouping. The Sabre scout in his WGR analysis commented on all the players in the Caufield group. So he wasn't indicating who he favored. My point was that there is no guarantee that he will be on the board when we pick at the seven spot. 

?missing the point? I totally misread your post the first time through.  This time I'm blaming lack of coffee.

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Preseason schedule is out: 

Sept. 16 Pittsburgh (at Penn State), 7 p.m.
Sept. 17 At Columbus, 7 p.m.
Sept. 20 at Toronto, 7 p.m.
Sept. 21 vs. Toronto (KBC), 7 p.m.
Sept. 25 vs. Columbus (KBC), 7 p.m.
Sept. 28 at Pittsburgh, 3 p.m

 

So the Leafs game at KBC lines up with the Bengals/Bills opener. But I was planning on the Pats game instead, so I'm SOL.

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1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

?missing the point? I totally misread your post the first time through.  This time I'm blaming lack of coffee.

Don't feel bad because I very often miss points not only after drinking my morning coffee but after the caffeine has kicked in. From all the commentary I have heard about this draft we should come away at the seven spot with a good player. In addition, all the commentary about this second grouping is that the selected players will be at least two years away. That's okay by me. ?

 

 

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https://theathletic.com/1034335/2019/06/18/lebrun-notebook-after-some-time-to-reflect-lightning-gm-julien-brisebois-sees-no-reason-to-alter-course/

 

Quote

And while BriseBois would never allow me to go down this road with him, it’s clear from talking to other people around the league that he’s trying to land a top-four, right-handed blueliner as colleague Joe Smith has mentioned repeatedly.

 

One player that I believe BriseBois has shown interest in not only before the February trade deadline but also again this offseason is Rasmus Ristolainen in Buffalo. With three more years on a deal that carries a $5.4-million cap hit, Ristolainen’s contract is more than reasonable for what he brings. And he just turned 24.

 

Which is also why the Sabres aren’t going to deal him unless the package is absolutely right.

 

Tampa is far from the only team that’s expressed interest. In fact, now that Jacob Trouba has been traded, I’m told interest has picked up again over the past 24 hours. Ristolainen is probably the top target now for teams eyeing to trade for a top-pairing D.

 

If I’m the Sabres, I don’t get into a serious discussion with Tampa unless Mikhail Sergachev is on the table.

 

 

It better be a hell of a package if we trade Ristolainen. Botterill has to know he can’t lose another trade like the ROR one. And with ROR there were extenuating circumstances (coming off s down season where his on ice effort was questionable, his year end comments, the huge $7.5M bonus due and the way his contract was structured, the team feeling they had to move ROR after his comments, etc).

 

None of that stuff applies to a Risto. So there’s no excuse for him to lose a Risto trade. 

 

Im trying to give Botterill the benefit of the doubt on that ROR trade, since IMO it was his only real bad trade. Loved the skinner deal, and liked the Scandella, Sheary and Beaulieu trades at the time. But I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t at least a little nervous about what the rerun might be... 

 

 

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1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://theathletic.com/1034335/2019/06/18/lebrun-notebook-after-some-time-to-reflect-lightning-gm-julien-brisebois-sees-no-reason-to-alter-course/

 

 

It better be a hell of a package if we trade Ristolainen. Botterill has to know he can’t lose another trade like the ROR one. And with ROR there were extenuating circumstances (coming off s down season where his on ice effort was questionable, his year end comments, the huge $7.5M bonus due and the way his contract was structured, the team feeling they had to move ROR after his comments, etc).

 

None of that stuff applies to a Risto. So there’s no excuse for him to lose a Risto trade. 

 

Im trying to give Botterill the benefit of the doubt on that ROR trade, since IMO it was his only real bad trade. Loved the skinner deal, and liked the Scandella, Sheary and Beaulieu trades at the time. But I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t at least a little nervous about what the rerun might be... 

 

 

How about throwing the dice and trading Risto for Taylor Hall? On the Risto issue I am torn. I just don't know. It was reported than all the coaching candidates were asked what would they do to get Risto back on track?

 

The below link is a WGR link. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/skinner-trade-was-success-lets-do-it-again

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2 hours ago, JohnC said:

How about throwing the dice and trading Risto for Taylor Hall? On the Risto issue I am torn. I just don't know. It was reported than all the coaching candidates were asked what would they do to get Risto back on track?

 

The below link is a WGR link. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/skinner-trade-was-success-lets-do-it-again

If Hall was willing to re-sign here? Absolutely. Otherwise no thanks. He’s UFA in a year. 

 

It would open up a big hole on the right side of the blue line. But Hall at his best is a league MVP who’s capable of putting a team on his back. He was the reason why New Jersey made the playoffs in 2017/18 (or at least the main reason). He won the Hart trophy (NHL’s most valuable player) that season. 

Id love to have him in Buffalo. He’s been one of my favorite players for years. I followed him in his draft year and have wanted him ever since. 

 

I read that the reason he doesn’t want to sign in New Jersey is that he wants to win and is unsure of their future. If that really is the case I don’t think buffalo would have a much better shot at signing him. 

 

If he agreed to an extension as part of the trade (or shortly after) then I’d be all over it. 

 

Seems like a dream though. 

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24 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

If Hall was willing to re-sign here? Absolutely. Otherwise no thanks. He’s UFA in a year. 

 

It would open up a big hole on the right side of the blue line. But Hall at his best is a league MVP who’s capable of putting a team on his back. He was the reason why New Jersey made the playoffs in 2017/18 (or at least the main reason). He won the Hart trophy (NHL’s most valuable player) that season. 

Id love to have him in Buffalo. He’s been one of my favorite players for years. I followed him in his draft year and have wanted him ever since. 

 

I read that the reason he doesn’t want to sign in New Jersey is that he wants to win and is unsure of their future. If that really is the case I don’t think buffalo would have a much better shot at signing him. 

 

If he agreed to an extension as part of the trade (or shortly after) then I’d be all over it. 

 

Seems like a dream though. 

If I recall correctly there were reports a few years back that Edmonton was willing to trade Hall to Buffalo for Risto. Supposedly, Murray declined that proposal.  Jersey ended up trading Hall to Jersey for D Larsson. I know that Edmonton was desperate for blue line help but that was a foolish deal for Edmonton. 

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There's just no way to fit another big contract under the current cap with Dahlin looming in 2 years.  You're already paying Jack and Skinner $19m.  Dahlin will likely by in the $10m range of he develops as expected.  The current cap is $75M.

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34 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

There's just no way to fit another big contract under the current cap with Dahlin looming in 2 years.  You're already paying Jack and Skinner $19m.  Dahlin will likely by in the $10m range of he develops as expected.  The current cap is $75M.

I agree with you. I don't see any blockbuster deals materializing that will result in a near future max or close to a max contract. It also has to be noted that the organization signed a bridge deal with Reinhart where he was challenged to show what he is capable of. So far he has met the test and has put himself in a good position to get a rich contract. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if there were deals made that added a second line player and brought in players who could strengthen the third and fourth lines. 

 

 

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Wow! 

 

Makes me feel a bit bit better about the Skinner deal. At least he’s an elite goal scorer (especially at even strength, which is always held at a premium). 

 

Hayes has a career high of 25 goals and it’s not like he’s a big playmaker either. His career high point total is 55pts. 

 

Id take Skinner at $9M x 8 over Hayes at $7.14M x 7.

 

 

Matt Duchene must be salivating right about now! 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alaska Darin said:

There's just no way to fit another big contract under the current cap with Dahlin looming in 2 years.  You're already paying Jack and Skinner $19m.  Dahlin will likely by in the $10m range of he develops as expected.  The current cap is $75M.

Need some young guys to step in (up) because they are cheap. Pretty much how it’s done! 

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NHL awards ceremony is tomorrow (Wednesday) at 8pm. 

 

I think Dahlin deserves to win the Calder, but it’ll probably be Pettersson. 

 

What Pettersson did was impressive, but it’s a LOT more common than what Dahlin did. I mean, Matt Barzal just put up a better rookie season last year (85pts vs 66pts for Pettersson). 

 

Pettersson’s rookie season ranks #100 on the all time (under 21) list.

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/nhl/stats/all-time-season?position=f&age=u21

 

Dahlin’s season ranks #2 on the all time (under 19) list 

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/nhl/stats/all-time-season?position=d&age=u19

 

Even if you bump the criteria to under 20 defenseman (which really isn’t fair since Dahlin was 18 all season and Pettersson was 20), he still ranks 11th (and about 40th on the under 21 list). 

 

What Dahlin did was way more historically significant than what Pettersson did. But I’ll bet any money Pettersson wins.

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The below link is an 11 minute segment with Nick Kypreos on WGR. He was talking about trades. The first part of the segment dealt with the Risto trade issue. I'm leaning toward keeping him. I would love to see how the new coach can have an influence on him upping his game.  

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/06-19-sportsnets-nick-kypreos-howard-and-jeremy

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27 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The below link is an 11 minute segment with Nick Kypreos on WGR. He was talking about trades. The first part of the segment dealt with the Risto trade issue. I'm leaning toward keeping him. I would love to see how the new coach can have an influence on him upping his game.  

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/06-19-sportsnets-nick-kypreos-howard-and-jeremy

I’m leaning toward keeping him too. 

 

But I do occasionally have the thought that this may be the ideal time to sell high. 

 

If Krueger can help fix his defensive game and slot him into a more proper role, Risto’s value could go up.

 

But Risto is said to be somewhat hard to coach, he doesn’t seem to have the highest hockey IQ and he’s entering year 7, so he may be what he is at this point. 

 

And now that we have Dahlin in year 2, and a full year of Montour, Ristolainen probably isn’t going to see nearly as much time on the power play as he used to. 

 

So my worry is that if his point totals fall sharply (from reduced PP time) and he doesn’t improve his defensive game to compensate, he could be worth a lot less if buffalo decides to move on from him next year or the year after. One of Risto’s big selling points is that he consistently puts up 40+ points every season. 

 

 

I go back and forth between the scenario above and one where he looks like a much more competent all around defenseman with better underlying stats and a drastically improved +/- from being slotted into a role that better suits him. 

 

 

Im glad I’m not the one who has to make these decision! lol

 

 

ultimately i think it will come down to what the offers are for Risto. If a bidding war breaks out and Botterill gets his socks knocked off, Risto should probably be traded. If not, hopefully Botts is smart enough to just keep him. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The below link is an 11 minute segment with Nick Kypreos on WGR. He was talking about trades. The first part of the segment dealt with the Risto trade issue. I'm leaning toward keeping him. I would love to see how the new coach can have an influence on him upping his game.  

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/06-19-sportsnets-nick-kypreos-howard-and-jeremy

I agree about Risto. Unless it's an absolute haul in return, including a top 6 immediate contributor, I want to keep him. To borrow a Lindyism, Risto has jam in his game and I'm intrigued by what a new coach like Krueger might get out of him. 

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