Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th

[K-9]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

Here’s the full berglund interview that those quotes came from - 

 

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hockeysense/2019/05/31/segment-3--patrik-berglund-53119

Hey BF4, will listening to this make me change my stance on Berglund? If so, I’ll give it a listen. If not, he can just go F himself until his dick falls off.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Here’s the full berglund interview that those quotes came from - 

 

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hockeysense/2019/05/31/segment-3--patrik-berglund-53119

I have no grudge against Berglund. He unexpectedly got traded from St. Louis when he thought his no trade clause was in force. Due to negligence by his agent and himself he found himself traded from a location where he was comfortably ensconced. He wasn't happy in Buffalo and lost his desire to play. So he basically walked away from the game giving up a lot of money and returning home. I don't look at it as walking away or quitting on Buffalo. He walked away from the game. He had enough integrity to not fake it and cruise just to collect unearned checks. 

 

 Ultimately it worked out for the Sabres in that we recouped the salary and cap hit. Since he wasn't contributing on the ice losing him and gaining his salary slot was more of a positive transaction than negative. It turned out to be addition by subtraction. 

 

After listening to the link he comes across as a good guy. I wish him well in his future endeavors and am glad that his cap space can be used on a more productive player. 

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Hey BF4, will listening to this make me change my stance on Berglund? If so, I’ll give it a listen. If not, he can just go F himself until his dick falls off.

Probably not. He didn’t really say a lot about Buffalo, except that he didn’t like a lot of the things they were doing (re:his usage and/or in general, it wasn’t super clear) or something like that. 

 

He talked more more about how it will take him a long time to get over what happened in STL and that he has poor representation. 

 

I didnt het the impression he was going to make an NHL return next year though. Sounded more like he might play in Sweden or somewhere closer to home. 

 

Oh, and he wonders “what if” in regard to if his rep got his no trade list in on time. 

When I heard that, I said “yea we Sabres fans wonder that too...”.  lol 

 

17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I have no grudge against Berglund. He unexpectedly got traded from St. Louis when he thought his no trade clause was in force. Due to negligence by his agent and himself he found himself traded from a location where he was comfortably ensconced. He wasn't happy in Buffalo and lost his desire to play. So he basically walked away from the game giving up a lot of money and returning home. I don't look at it as walking away or quitting on Buffalo. He walked away from the game. He had enough integrity to not fake it and cruise just to collect unearned checks. 

 

 Ultimately it worked out for the Sabres in that we recouped the salary and cap hit. Since he wasn't contributing on the ice losing him and gaining his salary slot was more of a positive transaction than negative. It turned out to be addition by subtraction. 

 

After listening to the link he comes across as a good guy. I wish him well in his future endeavors and am glad that his cap space can be used on a more productive player. 

 

I feel the same way. I hold no grudge and look at it as more of a bonus for us getting back that almost $4M x 4yrs. 

 

Plus, like you said, better to walk away than half ass it, not produce and eat up cap space. 

 

And i I can respect a person putting his happiness and mental well being above money. 

 

 

From everything that came out after he left, it sounds like he’s had mental health issues for years and had a support system in place in STL (the only place he ever played in the nhl). When it was taken away the way it was, it had a huge impact on him. 

 

I wish him well. 

[4merper4mer]

7 hours ago, JohnC said:

I have no grudge against Berglund. He unexpectedly got traded from St. Louis when he thought his no trade clause was in force. Due to negligence by his agent and himself he found himself traded from a location where he was comfortably ensconced. He wasn't happy in Buffalo and lost his desire to play. So he basically walked away from the game giving up a lot of money and returning home. I don't look at it as walking away or quitting on Buffalo. He walked away from the game. He had enough integrity to not fake it and cruise just to collect unearned checks. 

 

 Ultimately it worked out for the Sabres in that we recouped the salary and cap hit. Since he wasn't contributing on the ice losing him and gaining his salary slot was more of a positive transaction than negative. It turned out to be addition by subtraction. 

 

After listening to the link he comes across as a good guy. I wish him well in his future endeavors and am glad that his cap space can be used on a more productive player. 

Nothing falls into the lap of Botts on this?  He was either ignorant of or complicit in St. Louis' chicanery.  Do you think he got Berglund in an effort to create a roster spot and recoup cap?  

[K-9]

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

I have no grudge against Berglund. He unexpectedly got traded from St. Louis when he thought his no trade clause was in force. Due to negligence by his agent and himself he found himself traded from a location where he was comfortably ensconced. He wasn't happy in Buffalo and lost his desire to play. So he basically walked away from the game giving up a lot of money and returning home. I don't look at it as walking away or quitting on Buffalo. He walked away from the game. He had enough integrity to not fake it and cruise just to collect unearned checks. 

 

 Ultimately it worked out for the Sabres in that we recouped the salary and cap hit. Since he wasn't contributing on the ice losing him and gaining his salary slot was more of a positive transaction than negative. It turned out to be addition by subtraction. 

 

After listening to the link he comes across as a good guy. I wish him well in his future endeavors and am glad that his cap space can be used on a more productive player. 

Aw, the poor little multi millionaire professional athlete didn’t want to leave St. Louis. 

 

Cry me a F***ing river. 

 

Instead of sucking it up and embracing a new opportunity, he chose to act like a child and not a professional. I’ll save my sympathy for people truly suffering from depression and other mental illnesses. He is a disgrace and not worth a minute more of my concern.

[K-9]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Nothing falls into the lap of Botts on this?  He was either ignorant of or complicit in St. Louis' chicanery.  Do you think he got Berglund in an effort to create a roster spot and recoup cap?  

Perhaps JBotts could have suspected that, given Berglund’s agent’s huge screwup with the no trade clause list of teams, that he, Berglund, might have some initial reluctance. 

 

JBotts has every right to assume a 10 year pro veteran in the league would have the character to give his best effort, regardless. 

 

I can’t blame JBotts for not having the ability to look inside a player to see his true character. That’s on Berglund. 100%. 

[K-9]

Good old Jerry. Always on time with his cloud for the silver lining.

 

https://www.niagara-gazette.com/sports/sullivan-sabres-should-think-twice-about-re-signing-skinner/article_75d05ae6-8576-11e9-aab6-c71603b0f40f.html

[shrader]

23 hours ago, K-9 said:

I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him, either. But JBotts strikes me as someone who wants control over player development which is one reason I think he doesn't like drafting CHL prospects. 

 

I can't think of the last early drafted CHL player to hold out and return into the draft 2 years later.  It's too easy to just sign them right away and then let them stay there for their next two years if needed.  I don't really see how they would have less control over player development with this option.  I'd also have to imagine that they had some say in Pekar and UPL (yeah, until he makes it, I'm not learning that spelling) switching into that league.  That's certainly a developmental move for those guys.

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

I can't think of the last early drafted CHL player to hold out and return into the draft 2 years later.  It's too easy to just sign them right away and then let them stay there for their next two years if needed.  I don't really see how they would have less control over player development with this option.  I'd also have to imagine that they had some say in Pekar and UPL (yeah, until he makes it, I'm not learning that spelling) switching into that league.  That's certainly a developmental move for those guys.

I’m sure they had say with Pekar and UPL, too. But the fact remains, if an 18 year old CHL prospect doesn’t make the team or plays less than 10 games, he has to go back to the CHL. From a development standpoint, if a CHL prospect has already done everything he can at the CHL level, it’s understandable that a GM may prefer to get him in the A instead, but GMs don’t have that option currently. It’s CHL or sitting in the press box. 

[BillsFan4]

23 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Good old Jerry. Always on time with his cloud for the silver lining.

 

https://www.niagara-gazette.com/sports/sullivan-sabres-should-think-twice-about-re-signing-skinner/article_75d05ae6-8576-11e9-aab6-c71603b0f40f.html

I didn’t even know he was writing for a paper again. 

 

Quote

There are all kinds of rationalizations being made. That’s how it goes in the acquiescent Buffalo sports media, which always manages to see the best in any Buffalo sports team, no matter how much it loses or how many misguided personnel moves management makes.

 

 

Thought this paragraph was telling. Sully, even after tons of outcry from his readers (so much outcry that it actually got his column taken away because it was hurting TBN’s business), still views himself as some beacon of honesty in Buffalo sports media, when in reality it’s not honesty. He is just super negative about everything buffalo sports related.

 

 

 

 

Skinner is useless in overtime? I guess someone should tell him Skinner led all Sabres in overtime goals (more than Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Risto etc) even though he got less OT icetime than all the other big name Sabres. 

 

And Skinner “reflects too much of what’s wrong with a losing organization”? Really? The first buffalo player to hit 40 goals in a decade (and he also has the most game winning goals in a decade too). 

 

He then says if Krueger is the hockey savant everyone say he is, that he could watch the tape and see that Skinner isn’t worth keeping. Hey Jerry, did you ever think that maybe he DID watch tape on Skinner and decide he IS worth keeping? Of course not, because if Sullivan doesn’t think he’s worth keeping, obviously brilliant hockey minds must agree with him (and he doesn’t even consider the possibility that they don’t...lol). 

 

 

 

 

Well.... that was the first, and last, new Sully article I’ll click on. 

You’d think that maybe after everything that happened it would humble him at least a little bit and make him do some serious reflection. But of course not. I’ll bet he views everything that happened as someone else’s fault. Or him just being a victim of circumstance. 

 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

I didn’t even know he was writing for a paper again. 

 

 

Thought this paragraph was telling. Sully, even after tons of outcry from his readers (so much outcry that it actually got his column taken away because it was hurting TBN’s business), still views himself as some beacon of honesty in Buffalo sports media, when in reality it’s not honesty. He is just super negative about everything buffalo sports related.

 

 

 

 

Skinner is useless in overtime? I guess someone should tell him Skinner led all Sabres in overtime goals (more than Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Risto etc) even though he got less OT icetime than all the other big name Sabres. 

 

And Skinner “reflects too much of what’s wrong with a losing organization”? Really? The first buffalo player to hit 40 goals in a decade (and he also has the most game winning goals in a decade too). 

 

He then says if Krueger is the hockey savant everyone say he is, that he could watch the tape and see that Skinner isn’t worth keeping. Hey Jerry, did you ever think that maybe he DID watch tape on Skinner and decide he IS worth keeping? Of course not, because if Sullivan doesn’t think he’s worth keeping, obviously brilliant hockey minds must agree with him (and he doesn’t even consider the possibility that they don’t...lol). 

 

 

 

 

Well.... that was the first, and last, new Sully article I’ll click on. 

You’d think that maybe after everything that happened it would humble him at least a little bit and make him do some serious reflection. But of course not. I’ll bet he views everything that happened as someone else’s fault. Or him just being a victim of circumstance. 

 

Good stuff, BF4. 

 

I won’t be surprised if Krueger gets 50 out of Skinner next year. He’s never had a centerman like Eichel and they’re still figuring each other out. Yes, he slumped down the stretch but he was also playing on hurt ankle (which he was lucky didn’t just snap on the play he hurt it on) and he never complained, never backed off, and never failed to give it 100%. That’s all I ask of any player. 

 

Someone should tell Sully that plus/minus is really a team stat more than anything else. He comes across like he doesn’t have a firm grasp of the game.

[shrader]

17 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m sure they had say with Pekar and UPL, too. But the fact remains, if an 18 year old CHL prospect doesn’t make the team or plays less than 10 games, he has to go back to the CHL. From a development standpoint, if a CHL prospect has already done everything he can at the CHL level, it’s understandable that a GM may prefer to get him in the A instead, but GMs don’t have that option currently. It’s CHL or sitting in the press box. 

 

We really only have one player to look at right now for this question.  Anyone beyond the first round picks was more than like a >2 year project anyway.  So it's just Mittelstadt who may have been taken instead of a worthy CHL pick.  With those later picks, they may indeed have a preference of one league vs. the other, but I don't think it has anything to do with those CHL transfer agreement rules.

 

This year's draft results may very well fuel that theory though.  It seems so USNTDP heavy this time around and the numbers alone make it pretty likely that they go that route with the first pick.

[May Day 10]

29 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

I can't think of the last early drafted CHL player to hold out and return into the draft 2 years later.  It's too easy to just sign them right away and then let them stay there for their next two years if needed.  I don't really see how they would have less control over player development with this option.  I'd also have to imagine that they had some say in Pekar and UPL (yeah, until he makes it, I'm not learning that spelling) switching into that league.  That's certainly a developmental move for those guys.

 

Its a ridiculous philosophy and I have never heard of any other GM having issues with this.  I do see US hockey players/NCAA holding the team ransom and timing out their signing period to essentially become a UFA.... or, leverage their position to be fast tracked to the NHL and also burn a year of their ELC for the final week of the season.  (Vesey, Cal Peterson, Mittelstadt (the latter), Hayes, Butcher, Kerfoot)

 

Basically, you draft a CHL player and if they don't flesh out, they are relegated to ECHL or AHL FA land.  CHL provides the rigors that most closely resemble an NHL season and is still the optimal incubator for NHL talent (although the gap is closing).  

 

The next CBA needs to address the NCAA loopholes with players, especially late-bloomers becoming UFAs, and also the UFA derby that occurs with UDFA NCAA players.  There should be a supplemental draft or something.

[shrader]

9 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

Its a ridiculous philosophy and I have never heard of any other GM having issues with this.  I do see US hockey players/NCAA holding the team ransom and timing out their signing period to essentially become a UFA.... or, leverage their position to be fast tracked to the NHL and also burn a year of their ELC for the final week of the season.  (Vesey, Cal Peterson, Mittelstadt (the latter), Hayes, Butcher, Kerfoot)

 

Basically, you draft a CHL player and if they don't flesh out, they are relegated to ECHL or AHL FA land.  CHL provides the rigors that most closely resemble an NHL season and is still the optimal incubator for NHL talent (although the gap is closing).  

 

The next CBA needs to address the NCAA loopholes with players, especially late-bloomers becoming UFAs, and also the UFA derby that occurs with UDFA NCAA players.  There should be a supplemental draft or something.

 

Those aren't loopholes, they are specifically spelled out rules.  And they won't be changing them, there's no reason to do that.  We're talking about such a small number of players.  These college players already have their rights restricted more than they are for the non-CHL player.  The PA would never agree to restricted those guys' rights even further.  Every single player can be eligible for unrestricted free agency 4 years after becoming eligible for the draft.  You can't suddenly change that so that the college players have to wait even longer.  Also, the CHL guys can re-enter the draft after two years if unsigned, something not available to the college guys.

 

Yes there is a window each year where a bunch of college guys become UFAs at the same time, but that happens with the CHL guys as well.  The only difference there is that those players can sign earlier in the year without fear of becoming inelligble to play with their current team.  So you won't get that "all at once" feel, but there is definitely CHL undrafted free agency as well.

[K-9]

49 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

We really only have one player to look at right now for this question.  Anyone beyond the first round picks was more than like a >2 year project anyway.  So it's just Mittelstadt who may have been taken instead of a worthy CHL pick.  With those later picks, they may indeed have a preference of one league vs. the other, but I don't think it has anything to do with those CHL transfer agreement rules.

 

This year's draft results may very well fuel that theory though.  It seems so USNTDP heavy this time around and the numbers alone make it pretty likely that they go that route with the first pick.

My comments refer to the #7 overall pick only. Picks after the first round are gonna need more time, anyway, as a general rule. 

 

Agree entirely about the impact of USNTDP players on this year’s draft. I’ll be surprised if we don’t snag one. Other than Byram, who will be gone anyway, I don’t see another CHL player as being clear cut better than anyone in the USNTDP stable this year. 

[shrader]

47 minutes ago, K-9 said:

My comments refer to the #7 overall pick only. Picks after the first round are gonna need more time, anyway, as a general rule. 

 

Agree entirely about the impact of USNTDP players on this year’s draft. I’ll be surprised if we don’t snag one. Other than Byram, who will be gone anyway, I don’t see another CHL player as being clear cut better than anyone in the USNTDP stable this year. 

 

I wonder how much scrambling Hockey Canada is doing with these recent drafts where they don't completely dominate the early portion of the NHL draft.  Last year they had 2 of the top 10.  The Auston Matthews draft was the same.  This year they'll get 3 or 4.  So it's not like it's happening every year, but they have to cringe a bit when they see it.  Other parts of the world are catching up to them quickly when it comes to talent development.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

I wonder how much scrambling Hockey Canada is doing with these recent drafts where they don't completely dominate the early portion of the NHL draft.  Last year they had 2 of the top 10.  The Auston Matthews draft was the same.  This year they'll get 3 or 4.  So it's not like it's happening every year, but they have to cringe a bit when they see it.  Other parts of the world are catching up to them quickly when it comes to talent development.

Interesting question about Hockey Canada. Part of me wonders if they’re concerned all that much though. It’s such a huge organization with broad reaching cultural impact across the entire country, they might be too big to care much. 

[May Day 10]

I think they care.... but mostly an ego thing.  Other hockey programs have really gotten on with it.  Sweden, USA, and Finland most notably.  

 

The one thing that may concern them are players who may elect to play in US NCAA or USHL as opposed to CHL... as well as American (or Euro) born players who choose the US program over CHL.   I'm not sure what that number is and what the trends show.  

 

Top end of the draft though.. often it is cyclical.  As of now, next year's (2020) is dominated by hockey canada, something like 4 of the top 5 and 7 out of 10, 11 out of 20, while like 2/20 are in the USDP

[May Day 10]

What is going on with Russia?  I haven't paid close attention... but are all their high end draft eligible players signing into the KHL early?  Or are they being surpassed by everyone?

[shrader]

58 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Interesting question about Hockey Canada. Part of me wonders if they’re concerned all that much though. It’s such a huge organization with broad reaching cultural impact across the entire country, they might be too big to care much. 

 

It's interesting too because there really isn't any other comparable among the other sports (granted, I don't know how soccer handles things).  MLB is the only other one with a big international mix to their player base, but they non-US guys aren't included in the draft.  It's a shame that they probably will never truly get a meaningful world championship format established because it's one sport where there could really be an international market for it.