Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th

[PromoTheRobot]

Is Risto traded yet?

Is Risto traded yet?

Is Risto traded yet?

Is Risto traded yet?

[JohnC]

The attached link is from a NHL site. It gives a summarization of the team moves and what they mean toward breaking the playoff drought. At this point the unknown issue is whether Risto is going to be traded, and if so, what will the return be? If the return results in upgrading the second line then the team's prospects should look brighter. Another unknown factor is how much difference is the coaching change going to mean. I think the consensus is that the Sabres will be an improved team but the more important issue is how much so? And the follow up issue is will our improvement match or surpass the improvement of other teams that our in our strata? 

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/behind-the-numbers-buffalo-sabres-eventful-summer-should-provide-spark/c-308292130

 

 

   

[BillsFan4]

 

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

The attached link gives a little more background to the deal. It seems to me that the Oilers got the best of the deal in that if it doesn't work out they have a reasonable buyout option where Calgary doesn't have that escape avenue to take. What is evident is that the Oiler signing of Lucic was an unmitigated disaster. The new GM is in the process of cleaning up the mess of the previous regime. 

 

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2019/07/19/trade-flames-get-lucic-oilers-receive-neal/

[GG]

52 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The attached link gives a little more background to the deal. It seems to me that the Oilers got the best of the deal in that if it doesn't work out they have a reasonable buyout option where Calgary doesn't have that escape avenue to take. What is evident is that the Oiler signing of Lucic was an unmitigated disaster. The new GM is in the process of cleaning up the mess of the previous regime. 

 

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2019/07/19/trade-flames-get-lucic-oilers-receive-neal/

 

It wasn’t that long ago that people were fawning over Chiarrelli’s moves to toughen up that squad.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, GG said:

 

It wasn’t that long ago that people were fawning over Chiarrelli’s moves to toughen up that squad.

That Taylor Hall deal is still mystifying. It is understandable that teams want to reshape their rosters. However, when you give up a significant asset you should be expected to get a comparable or near comparable asset back. As you pointed out Chairrelli wanted to toughen his roster. It didn't work out. So years later the mistakes of the past are being addressed in the present. It's hard to move forward when you have to fix what you did in the past. 

 

The consensus in the local media is that Risto is going to be dealt. If you can't get equal value back then I say keep him. 

[plenzmd1]

10 hours ago, JohnC said:

That Taylor Hall deal is still mystifying. It is understandable that teams want to reshape their rosters. However, when you give up a significant asset you should be expected to get a comparable or near comparable asset back. As you pointed out Chairrelli wanted to toughen his roster. It didn't work out. So years later the mistakes of the past are being addressed in the present. It's hard to move forward when you have to fix what you did in the past. 

 

The consensus in the local media is that Risto is going to be dealt. If you can't get equal value back then I say keep him. 

revisionist history . The year the Oilers made that trade they ended their playoff drought , finished with 103 pts, won their first round series 4-2, lost to Anaheim (who was a beast at the time) 2-1 in a game 7 on the road( if they win they were in the conference finals). Wisdom then was the trade paid off in a big way and the Oilers were a team on the come. 

 

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

revisionist history . The year the Oilers made that trade they ended their playoff drought , finished with 103 pts, won their first round series 4-2, lost to Anaheim (who was a beast at the time) 2-1 in a game 7 on the road( if they win they were in the conference finals). Wisdom then was the trade paid off in a big way and the Oilers were a team on the come. 

 

 

In the long run trading Hall was a mistake. Sometimes short term success doesn't reflect smarter long term decisions that result in more sustained success. If you believe that trading Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson was in the long run a good deal then your talent judgment is very odd. Taylor Hall is one of the best forwards in the league. Larsson is a good player but compared to Hall from a talent standpoint he is a pigmy. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

14 hours ago, JohnC said:

That Taylor Hall deal is still mystifying. It is understandable that teams want to reshape their rosters. However, when you give up a significant asset you should be expected to get a comparable or near comparable asset back. As you pointed out Chairrelli wanted to toughen his roster. It didn't work out. So years later the mistakes of the past are being addressed in the present. It's hard to move forward when you have to fix what you did in the past. 

 

The consensus in the local media is that Risto is going to be dealt. If you can't get equal value back then I say keep him. 

 

 

...think you have to........maybe he picks it up a step (hopefully) with a new HC riding his arse.....then again, could be wishful thinking.....

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...think you have to........maybe he picks it up a step (hopefully) with a new HC riding his arse.....then again, could be wishful thinking.....

It was reported that all the coaching candidates were asked by the GM what they would do to get better play out of Risto. So there is an indication that the organization believes that he has the talent to be better. The most important calculation by the GM in a prospective trade is whether the team is going to be better or not after the deal. That's a tough question to answer. Sometimes the trade calculation turns out to be right and sometimes not. 

[BillsFan4]

 

 

The more I hear from Don Granato, the more I am starting to like him. 

 

 

[K-9]

 

Ehlers for Risto? Yes please. 

 

Roslovic and/or Perrault would add absolutely nothing. 

[BillsFan4]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

 

Ehlers for Risto? Yes please. 

 

Roslovic and/or Perrault would add absolutely nothing. 

 

I feel like those 2 proposed trades are not even in the same ballpark, value wise. 

 

Ehlers would be a big get and would have me feeling good about Botterill’s ability to evaluate NHL talent (as of now his pro scouting staff is one of my biggest concerns)

 

Roslovic and Perreault would be another lesser prospect ROR style quantity trade.

It would make me feel like Botterill learned nothing from that ROR mistake and that his pro scouting staff is not very good.

 

 

One trade would have me feeling good about our future and the other would have me very concerned. 

 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-exchange-arbitration-numbers-rodrigues

 

Quote

Buffalo Sabres forward Evan Rodrigues is getting ready to have his salary arbitration hearing with the National Hockey League on Tuesday, and now we have an idea of how far apart both sides are on contract negotiations.

 

Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman reported on Sunday that the Sabres and Rodrigues are $1.15 million apart on numbers for a new contract. Rodrigues is asking for a deal that will pay him $2.65 million per-year, while the Sabres are hoping to get him under contract with an average annual value of $1.5 million.

 

The Sabres and Rodrigues still have until Tuesday to avoid arbitration and come to terms on a new contract. 

 

I’d give him $2.5M on a 4yr deal. Could give Buffalo a chance to get a potential top 6 F under contract at a bargain. But I doubt Botterill does it. He seems very cautious when giving out any term in a deal. A lot of contracts have been for 1-2 years so far under him. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I feel like those 2 proposed trades are not even in the same ballpark, value wise. 

 

Ehlers would be a big get and would have me feeling good about Botterill’s ability to evaluate NHL talent (as of now his pro scouting staff is one of my biggest concerns)

 

Roslovic and Perreault would be another lesser prospect ROR style quantity trade.

It would make me feel like Botterill learned nothing from that ROR mistake and that his pro scouting staff is not very good.

 

 

One trade would have me feeling good about our future and the other would have me very concerned. 

 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-exchange-arbitration-numbers-rodrigues

 

 

I’d give him $2.5M on a 4yr deal. Could give Buffalo a chance to get a potential top 6 F under contract at a bargain. But I doubt Botterill does it. He seems very cautious when giving out any term in a deal. A lot of contracts have been for 1-2 years so far under him. 

I like Rodrigues because of his speed and consistent strong effort. However, I don't see him as a second line forward as either a winger or center. In my view he would make a superb third line versatile winger. My problem isn't with how much he will earn as it is where he is slotted. If he is slotted on a second line then in my estimation the line would be less than average.  

Edited July 21, 2019 by JohnC
spelling

[K-9]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I feel like those 2 proposed trades are not even in the same ballpark, value wise. 

 

Ehlers would be a big get and would have me feeling good about Botterill’s ability to evaluate NHL talent (as of now his pro scouting staff is one of my biggest concerns)

 

Roslovic and Perreault would be another lesser prospect ROR style quantity trade.

It would make me feel like Botterill learned nothing from that ROR mistake and that his pro scouting staff is not very good.

 

 

One trade would have me feeling good about our future and the other would have me very concerned. 

 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-exchange-arbitration-numbers-rodrigues

 

 

I’d give him $2.5M on a 4yr deal. Could give Buffalo a chance to get a potential top 6 F under contract at a bargain. But I doubt Botterill does it. He seems very cautious when giving out any term in a deal. A lot of contracts have been for 1-2 years so far under him. 

I wish I could see ERod as a top 6 forward, but I don’t. He disappears for long stretches. I like him and my hope is that enough talent pushes him down to the bottom six role I feel he’s more suite for. 2.5m seems a bit steep to me, but it’s the NHL and salaries are escalating, so in a short time it could look like a steal.

[BillsFan4]

57 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I like Rodrigues because of his speed and consistent strong effort. However, I don't see him as a second line forward as either a winger or center. In my view he would make a superb third line versatile winger. My problem isn't with how much he will earn as it is where he is slotted. If he is slotted on a second line then in my estimation the line would be less than average.  

 

54 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I wish I could see ERod as a top 6 forward, but I don’t. He disappears for long stretches. I like him and my hope is that enough talent pushes him down to the bottom six role I feel he’s more suite for. 2.5m seems a bit steep to me, but it’s the NHL and salaries are escalating, so in a short time it could look like a steal.

 

I didn’t mean that I see ERod as a top 6 F right now. 

 

I was saying that I’d be good with giving him a 4yr deal at $2.5M, betting that it could look like a great depth signing in a couple years. I’d only be willing to that high on a longer deal though. 

 

If they give ERod a 1-2 year deal, the $1.5M the Sabres are offering sounds more in line. Maybe $2M on a 2yr deal (though that would take him right to UFA).  

 

I don't know that he will ever be a full time top 6 guy. But I think he has the potential to be a very good 3rd line player that can move into the top 6 when needed and give you maybe 40pts a year (which would be a bargain at $2.5M, especially in 2yrs time). 

[JohnC]

The attached WGR link is a 19 minute segment talking about the Sabres and making projections about the roster. In the second half of the segment the guest, Peter Johnson from NHL.com, discusses the rest of the division and the challenge facing the Sabres going against teams that also have improved. Florida is the team that he believes is going to step up. There is nothing exotic about his comments other than it is a fair depiction of where this team is at. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/07-20-nhlcoms-pete-jensen-sneaky-joe

[4merper4mer]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The attached WGR link is a 19 minute segment talking about the Sabres and making projections about the roster. In the second half of the segment the guest, Peter Johnson from NHL.com, discusses the rest of the division and the challenge facing the Sabres going against teams that also have improved. Florida is the team that he believes is going to step up. There is nothing exotic about his comments other than it is a fair depiction of where this team is at. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/07-20-nhlcoms-pete-jensen-sneaky-joe

So 2025 or so?

[BillsFan4]

 

 

 

 

I didn’t realize erod’s fancy stats were so good. (not sure I agree that he’s better than Kevin Labanc though)

Edited July 22, 2019 by BillsFan4

[T&C]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned already... Today is RJ's birthday, 77 years young.

[plenzmd1]

anyone needs a kick in the nuts, No Goal is on NHL Network. Good the hear Gary Thorne again..man how did we watch hockey in SD???

[K-9]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

anyone needs a kick in the nuts, No Goal is on NHL Network. Good the hear Gary Thorne again..man how did we watch hockey in SD???

I’ll get to that right after I’m done watching the wide right, homerun throwback double feature. I have to keep telling myself, “it’s on,y a movie, it’s only a movie, it’s only a movie.” 

 

[shrader]

8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’ll get to that right after I’m done watching the wide right, homerun throwback double feature. I have to keep telling myself, “it’s on,y a movie, it’s only a movie, it’s only a movie.” 

 

 

You'll love the 90 minute interview with Jay McKee’s shin guard. 

[BillsFan4]

So it looks like the Sabres and ERod went through with the arbitration hearing. They can still come to an agreement before the arbitrator rules. 

 

Hopefully whatever happens it doesn't sour the relationship between him and the team. But I’m not going to lose sleep over it if it does. 

 

[K-9]

10 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

So it looks like the Sabres and ERod went through with the arbitration hearing. They can still come to an agreement before the arbitrator rules. 

 

Hopefully whatever happens it doesn't sour the relationship between him and the team. But I’m not going to lose sleep over it if it does. 

 

I’m not losing any sleep, either. As much as we like ERod and some other players, the simple fact is they are readily replaceable, non impact role fillers and little more. 

[stony]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

I’m not losing any sleep, either. As much as we like ERod and some other players, the simple fact is they are readily replaceable, non impact role fillers and little more. 

I could be wrong, but I always viewed ERod as the team throwing a bone to Jack.  He's been a pleasant surprise, but like you said, replaceable.  

[shrader]

40 minutes ago, stony said:

I could be wrong, but I always viewed ERod as the team throwing a bone to Jack.  He's been a pleasant surprise, but like you said, replaceable.  

 

They signed him before they drafted Eichel.  Granted at that point they did know he would be their draft pick, but I'd say it's a bit of a stretch to think they would have done it for him at that point.

[plenzmd1]

18 hours ago, shrader said:

 

They signed him before they drafted Eichel.  Granted at that point they did know he would be their draft pick, but I'd say it's a bit of a stretch to think they would have done it for him at that point.

I thought they did too..but i really like Erod. I view him as the kind of guy you need on the 3rd line to be successful, I was hoping for a 3 year, $2.25..who says no to that deal? Sabres or Erod?

[shrader]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

I thought they did too..but i really like Erod. I view him as the kind of guy you need on the 3rd line to be successful, I was hoping for a 3 year, $2.25..who says no to that deal? Sabres or Erod?

 

I think Erod would have rejected that.  At this point he's going to want a deal that takes him to UFA status.  I'm too lazy to dig up the specifics, but that's either a 1 or 2 year deal.  But regardless, this far removed from the hearing, they're past the point of negotiation, so really, no one is going to say yes or no to that deal.

Edited July 25, 2019 by shrader

[plenzmd1]

4 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

I think Erod would have rejected that.  At this point he's going to want a deal that takes him to RFA status.  I'm too lazy to dig up the specifics, but that's either a 1 or 2 year deal.  But regardless, this far removed from the hearing, they're past the point of negotiation, so really, no one is going to say yes or no to that deal.

did you mean UFA?  I am really not sure how these things work when they sign the ELC as a free agent out of college. Same thing as if they sign before they graduate?

[shrader]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

did you mean UFA?  I am really not sure how these things work when they sign the ELC as a free agent out of college. Same thing as if they sign before they graduate?

 

Oops.  Yeah, I went back and fixed that. 

 

For the majority of players, it's 27 years old or 7 years of service, whatever comes first.  There are some other ways to get there, but they're fairly rare (Danny O'Regan this year).  So for those college free agents who sign at an older age, it winds up being that 27 year old mark.

[BillsFan4]

https://www.nhl.com/news/sabres-forward-casey-mittelstadt-pleased-with-roster-additions/c-308239878?tid=277567768

 

Mittelstadt pleased with new-look Sabres

 

Quote

Buffalo also retained Jeff Skinner, who could have become an unrestricted free agent. The forward signed an eight-year, $72 million contract (average annual value $9 million) June 7 after he scored an NHL career-high 40 goals and tied a personal best with 63 points.

 

"I think it all started with getting (Skinner) back," said Mittelstadt, a 20-year-old forward who had 25 points (12 goals, 13 assists) in 77 games. "That's huge for me, especially since he's taught me so much and kind of has taken me under his wing..... 

 

I guess now we see why Casey thanked Skinner (on Instagram iirc) after he re-signed with the Sabres. Sheary thanked him too. I found that interesting. I can’t really remember seeing that happen too often (but maybe I just haven’t paid close enough attention...). 

[stony]

So it's official.  1-year, $2M.  Arbitrator's ruling.  

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, stony said:

So it's official.  1-year, $2M.  Arbitrator's ruling.  

 

Seems kind of dumb that they didn’t settle at $2M x 1yr before the arbitration hearing seeing as the ruling landed exactly where pretty much everyone expected it to land when it came out that the Sabres were at $1.5M and ERod at $2.65M.

 

Also, Im guessing the reason that the Sabres chose a 1 year term is that he is a UFA in 2 years time. 

[plenzmd1]

1 hour ago, stony said:

So it's official.  1-year, $2M.  Arbitrator's ruling.  

see above..arbitrator needs to pick on or tother, this was a negotiated deal 

[BillsFan4]

42 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

see above..arbitrator needs to pick on or tother, this was a negotiated deal 

The arbitrator can pick whatever amount he wants. I believe you are thinking of baseball where iirc the arbitrator picks one of the 2 offers. But in NHL arbitration the arbitrator sets whatever amount he feels is right. 

 

The sabres press release even says it was the arbitrators ruling -

 

Quote

The terms of the contract were based on the ruling of an independent arbitrator.

 

Because ERod is the one who filed, the Sabres got to pick the term -> 1 or 2 years. 

 

And the Sabres could only walk away from the ruling if the arbitrator set a salary above $4 or $4.5M (or something like that). 

 

Edit - here’s a link explaining the NHL arbitration process if you’re interested 

 

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/07/06/nhl-salary-arbitration-rules-faq-aston-reese-tlh/

Edited July 25, 2019 by BillsFan4

[K-9]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

Seems kind of dumb that they didn’t settle at $2M x 1yr before the arbitration hearing seeing as the ruling landed exactly where pretty much everyone expected it to land when it came out that the Sabres were at $1.5M and ERod at $2.65M.

 

Also, Im guessing the reason that the Sabres chose a 1 year term is that he is a UFA in 2 years time. 

 

Sabres are super tight with the cap at just a hair over $3.1m of room and they still have a couple guys to sign like McCabe and Ullmark so perhaps they were hoping for a lower amount to be awarded. That half million is significant when you’re up against the cap. 

 

Methinks JBotts will be making some moves very soon. 

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

 

Sabres are super tight with the cap at just a hair over $3.1m of room and they still have a couple guys to sign like McCabe and Ullmark so perhaps they were hoping for a lower amount to be awarded. That half million is significant when you’re up against the cap. 

 

Methinks JBotts will be making some moves very soon. 

Good point. I forgot how close to the cap they are after signing MoJo. 

 

 

[JohnC]

The below link is a Buffalo News article somewhat about Skinner and the additions to the roster. The article didn't offer anything new. It was noted that the additions were added without much cost. An interesting issue for this team is whether to keep the top line in tact or split it up to bolster the second line. My preference is to keep this superlative line in tact and do your best to cobble a respectable second line together. Hopefully, there will be more secondary scoring from the lower lines.

 

As others have pointed out the main issue of interest for this offseason is whether there will be a Risto deal or other deals. I would love to see some genuine second line talent added to the second line. We shall see.  

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/07/25/buffalo-sabres-jeff-skinner-jimmy-vesey-smashfest-toronto-nhl-news-2019/

[plenzmd1]

15 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

The arbitrator can pick whatever amount he wants. I believe you are thinking of baseball where iirc the arbitrator picks one of the 2 offers. But in NHL arbitration the arbitrator sets whatever amount he feels is right. 

 

The sabres press release even says it was the arbitrators ruling -

 

 

Because ERod is the one who filed, the Sabres got to pick the term -> 1 or 2 years. 

 

And the Sabres could only walk away from the ruling if the arbitrator set a salary above $4 or $4.5M (or something like that). 

 

Edit - here’s a link explaining the NHL arbitration process if you’re interested 

 

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/07/06/nhl-salary-arbitration-rules-faq-aston-reese-tlh/

did we not always learn it had to be one or the other?  i am just getting old i guess!